Back in 1994, when our day of greatest need arrived, Celtic fans had already invested years in developing a recovery strategy in case the club faced extinction. A disparate group of “rebels” filtered out good ideas from bad, established a platform for recovery and ensured that when the hour came, one man was ready and able to walk into a branch of Bank of Scotland and deposit a large sum of money into Celtic’s account, while others rallied support and prepared for the recovery.
Those rebels eventually went their own ways as many of those who stood shoulder-to-shoulder with Fergus McCann found allies in conflict didn’t make for friends in peacetime, but the rebels were united long enough to Save our Celts. Without their preparation, Celtic would have quickly gone into administration and who knows where thereafter.
Compare and contrast with Rangers in their hour of need. There is no preparation, no consensus of the willing, not even an acceptance that this is, in fact, an hour of need.
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ernie
@14.24
That was also my understanding, however, surely based on that scenario it makes the contemporary situation even more precarious.
Give them a choice and they’ll let us walk and currently we have nowhere to go.
Starry Plough – Campbell Ogilvie, interesting fellow who has more skill than an Italian ferry captain for getting off a sinking ship. Never understood why some people have surnames as Christian names.
hamiltontim:
The entire argument being put forward for Rangers being parachuted into the SPL boils down to ONE THING … the league needs both clubs.
That’s the argument. There is NO OTHER. That’s their whole case, and it is nonsense. The notion of putting a NewCo straight into the league is filled with holes and fraught with difficulties and it might even prove impossible.
But say it does. Ignoring the mass of legal issues which would STILL have to be considered if Rangers are to be admitted – there could, for example, be no doubts over their long term future, or the SPL would not be allowed to do it, and such doubts will be palpable – the entire case for why comes down to the fact the league needs both clubs.
Once you accept that their argument boils down to one thing, THAT is the very thing you REMOVE from the equation by threatening to go to the law if the deal is ratified on that basis. You say “you can either have a discredited, shattered Rangers, perched still on the edge of the precipice, and take on the risk of backers, sponsors and banks running for the hills …. ” OR … “you choose Celtic.”
But you CANNOT have both. That is NOT up for debate.
What then do they do? I think if self preservation mattered, they would choose us.
An earlier post from me regarding Herr Campbell
A few scattered thoughts.
If the huns go into admin this week (i.e if Jelavic fails medical and with that wee bug maybe not or fails to agree personal terms)
What happens to the clubs that are still owed money on their players ? What happens to those players registrations ?
Would Wallace be packed off back to Hearts for example ? Bocanegra back to France ? etc.
The Jamboes have already indicated how desperate their plight is with regards the taxman but they have been paying the taxman.
The SFA would hold the registrations but what is their remit ?
So the SFA can literally decide Hearts ultimate fate as well in a few weeks time by how they handle the Wallace situation ?
We could be about to witness a situation where the head of the SFA Campbell Ogilivie is the top man in a dispute between the Jamboes and the huns .. where he has personally presided over in another capacity ?
A capacity that might yet well see him in court charged with being involved in helping a company evade tax ?
Would Campbell Ogilivie be aware (if there) were two sets of hun contracts ? I reckon he must have. The time scale fits perfectly
I hope as soon as the proverbial hits the fan that our team of crack and expert lawyers. Preferably lawyers that are not so publicity hungry are all over this
24 x 7
Hail Hail
Saha sold to Spurs
Jelavic pictured at Everton.
SSN
THE EXILED TIM says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:23
Como esta mi amigo?
Well said re ‘the power’……… Yes, frightening in its all encompassing influence!
RFC, may well be a toy but they do enjoy their symbolism, games, parades and overt shows of (perceived) supremacy. And woe betide those pesky Fenians if they try to take the dug’s bone away………
Can see that I am beginning to sound like some mad conspiracy theorist, so will leave it for now!
Flying back at the weekend………….Pollok, Larkhall, Cumbernauld, and then Swinecastle on the Wednesday before heading out to Dubai for a wee break and attending a CSC week long function……….
Take Care. A pleasure as always.
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
The Lizard King says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:16
You have restored my confidence that there might not be a Newco. Very succinct and clear summation of points. Well done!
James Forrest
James, I love reading your posts because of the passion you imbue them with but I would urge caution in expecting the other clubs to take our part against Newco if we gave them an option Them or Us. I’m fairly sure they would vote for them. Too many people in Scotland want to see us get our comeuppance whether or not they have any affiliation to TFOD. This is a time to be shrewd, to have a game plan and not the time for empty gestures which will see us end up with egg on our face. If we had to ask to get back in we never hear the end of it for the next 100 years and we would be pilloried mercilessly. It would be a suicidal strategy to resign with no where to go.
DeniaBhoy says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:36
Lester Freamon School of Thought, this mess will spread deeper and wider than any of us thought.
As Neil Lennon say, this is just the beginning..
SP
bada bing
boothroyd or mackie…who to choose?
Eve of destruction … Barry McGuire
I’v now lost interest in the transfer window as I don’t think we’ll do any more business as we have rarely done anything on the last day with the odd exception over the years. I don’t see Morales or whatever his name is arriving for a medical at this stage. It would be absolutely massive, however, if we suddenly paraded Grant Holt at Ross Hall. :-)
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:37
As it was you that subliminally programmed him into my head, wondered where he popped up from..
Interesting man indeed..
Paul67 says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:04
ernie lynch, Bob Kelly had the backing of the other league clubs, including Rangers, who quickly made him SFA general secretary. This is why he won his point. He never threatened/offered to walk Celtic off a plank
Really Paul? Not quite true my friend. He didn’t have the backing of the other league clubs otherwise the order for Celtic to bring down The Flag would never have been issued. (NB I understand Rangers supported the Celtic position all the way through). It was the mans force of argument and the slow realisation of the impact the demise of Celtic would have which won the day.
Sir RK DID say in his personal history of Celtic (‘Celtic’) that rather than take down The Flag he would arrange for Celtic to be a Gaelic (sp) Football Club until the rest of the clubs came to their senses. Don’t see that as at all practical but it didn’t come to that (by a very very narrow margin – one vote!) but given the character of SBK could anyone say he wouldn’t have tried it or something similar!
He played the hand dealt & the others blinked first.
He LATER got the support of the other clubs and their respect when he (& Desmond White) exposed the long term wrong doings of Sir George Graham SFA General Secretary (who was the ‘man’ who instigated the expulsion attempt). The other clubs could do little else as exposure would have created a public humiliation.
History lesson over lol.
A cheeky wee bid for Steven Davis…?
Falkirk star Kallum Higginbotham has been given permission to talk with five clubs including Old Firm giants Rangers and Celtic, Sky Sports understands.
The 22-year-old forward has been in impressive form for the promotion-chasing Bairns this term, which has seem him attract the attention of a number of clubs.
David Hay- if Molina doesnt happen,a loan deal for either might be an option.
Dharma Bam
I wish I could, seriously, I get snippets, no more cos they know I couldn’t keep my gob shut.
But I can guarantee you it will end up in court, and could go on for years, in the mean time operation save the hun is just at lift off stage, for every ludge member out there, there is a non ludge member.
TTT said earlier that the new media are doing all the work of the MSM, and the MSM are the ones with the megaphone, he is 100% correct, but the non ludge members have money and influence as well,beavering away doing a Craig Whyte kind of thing, working under the radar.
Is our debt not about £300k?
Paul67
I can tell your loving this, like the rest of us.
I was talking to a long time season ticket holder at ibrox
last week.
He was telling me that you cant buy a pie on its own at the bigotdome
these days, its a £5 minimum spend, a kinda happy meal deal thing.
I thought to myself there’s got to be a good joke in there somewhere.
Lads 500K for Templeton surely that’s a bargain.
James
Your posts are impassioned but I can’t help feeling that they reflect what WE want as Celtic supporters.
I agree with almost all of your post, I really do, but I don’t think it’s representative of the manner we as a club and a support have been treated by the rest of the SPL, their chairmen or their fans.
How many people outside our own made any comment re the treatment of Lenny last season? They hate us and don’t forget their lack of outrage when our own demise was imminent in 1994.
Are there any last day in rumours at Celtic. Im bored laughing at the orcs demise.
dirtymac @ 14:26
I can read a set of accounts. these show the interest the club has paid, and the interest rate it is calculated at. These show that the plc has had significant facilities unutilised over the past number of years. I dont have them in front of me now but if you want me to do the sums for you then I will later on. I’d be very surprised if our debt was anywhere near £30m at any point in the business cycle.
Ole declan reachnig new heights today.
PauL67,
Any more ‘good news’ articles for today, if so, how many do you think? (ones about Celtic)
hamiltontim says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:35
Death before dishonour?
CultsBhoy loves being 1st says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:44
Why he only looks good as he is surrounded by carthorses, the lack of bids for him show exactly how he is viewed outside of Govan, he wouldn’t get a game in our midfield.
SP
neveralone says:
31 January, 2012 at 14:44
I always thought the Harry Swan, the Hibs chairman, who was the driving force in the Flag dispute.
Ably backed by Graham, of course.
We also have to remember that Bob Kelly went out on the limb in protesting against the Soviet Bloc countries contesting the 1968-69 European competitions.
This followed the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia.
He said it was either the USSR et al, or Celtic. EUFA agreed and the competitions were redrawn minus the Commies.
And Paul…
They didn’t make Bob Kelly General Secretary, he became President, the figurehead, which he held for two terms.
Willie Allen, who gained BK’s absolute respect as a man who played entirely by the rule book became Gen Sec.
Sorry for being such a smart arse :-)
We will have a debt of about £20m when we bank the season ticket money as that is a debt until the games are played and we have provided the game we charged for in advance.
RogueLeader says:
31 January, 2012 at 12:05
Paul67 –
“For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.”
———————————————————————————————————–
Rogue, couldn’t have put it better myself.
Haud oan, i did ……. about 2000 years ago, haha! Memory is not what it used to be!!
HH
AoW
Statement from Rangers, seemingly:
First, I would like to address specifically the latest attempt to undermine Rangers in today’s Daily Record which devotes five pages to trashing our efforts to get this Club back on a sensible financial footing.
In the most lurid terms, the Record accuses the Club’s management and, specifically me, of using supporters’ money to help fund the buy-out of Rangers. Not true.
The Club is accused of not paying £5million in VAT. Not true.
I can categorically assure supporters that when I launched a takeover bid for the Club it was funded entirely from one of my companies and that was demonstrated clearly to the satisfaction of the previous owner, Lloyds Banking Group and professional advisers.
What is true is that Rangers, like many other clubs, has a financing arrangement in place with a company called Ticketus which enables the Club to receive revenue from a portion of season ticket sales in advance.
There is nothing unusual or untoward in this arrangement which was put in place at the Club long before my takeover last year and was used by the previous management. For members of that regime to criticise the use of a scheme they put in place is, frankly, outrageous.
This is a perfectly straightforward way of raising working capital for the Club. Money from season ticket sales goes directly to the Club and is used for the Club’s operations and that remains the case. In effect, all this financing arrangement does is release the revenue to the Club earlier.
The Daily Record’s approach to this story sought to distort and dramatise the matter. I for one will not be reading or buying the Daily Record again and I’m sure many other Rangers fans will share my disgust at yet another smear on this football club.
It was, predictably, fuelled by accusations of former board members of the Club. I simply ask Rangers fans what these men did for Rangers in the Club’s hour of need? They were all talk and no action and presided over the Club as it careered to the brink of financial collapse.
The overarching issue that affects Rangers financially is the HMRC tax tribunal, which has been hanging over the Club for many years and long before I became chairman. As I have said many times before, the sooner that is resolved the better.
In terms of the playing squad, you may know the Club has agreed a fee with Everton for the transfer of Nikica Jelavic. We wish the player well and thank him for his contribution to Rangers.
The reality of Jelavic’s departure is two-fold. One, the player wanted to leave and there is no point in trying to keep a player who no longer wants to be at Ibrox. Two, the Club is simply not in a financial position to turn down offers for players which give the Club a good return on its original investment.
Investment in the playing squad has been a thorny issue since I took over the Club in May and is the source of endless debate, much of it ill-informed. I want to set the record straight.
In the summer transfer window last year we conducted 14 different pieces of transfer business, more than any other club in Scotland. This included new signings and improvement to existing contracts with key players, increasing the players’ wage bill significantly. We now have a first team squad of 30 which includes 18 full internationalists.
Admittedly, there were transfer targets we did not secure but that is not uncommon. As chairman, I have supported Ally McCoist in his choice of targets and will continue to do so. The timing of Jelavic’s departure so late in this window is far from ideal and efforts to improve the squad will continue until the transfer window closes.
That said, we must be realistic. Media coverage of the transfer window has bordered on the hysterical. As it stands at the moment Rangers has operating costs of approximately £45 million a year and revenues of around £35million – not including revenue from possible Champions’ League and Europa League participation.
As we know, European money cannot be taken for granted and it doesn’t take much to work out that without it there is a big financial hole to fill every year – regardless of who owns the Club.
I’ve said many times that in Scottish football we have to move on from this mindset that you have to keep spending more and more money – that’s what got this Club into financial trouble before. We have to live within our means, continue to develop talent and spend wisely.
These are challenging financial times for Rangers – as they are for many other businesses. What I can say to you as a Rangers fan is that everything I will do as chairman will be in the interests of the Club and I thank you for your continued support.
Craig Whyte, Chairman
Has anyone seen Declan and philvis in the same room?
Hmmm?
But I do agree with earlier posters, preserving the anonymusness of Declan is as vital as preserving the same status for RTC:)
DeckoNagasakiCSC
ttt
You’re right about Swann’s involement BUT he was only the willing lieutenant.
Until Bob & Desmond sorted him out George Graham’s word was law – he was beyond reproach!
DeniaBhoy, answer to that question is honestly up in the air at the moment. A phoenix depends on a smooth plan being in place and having enough time to execute one. It increasingly looks like there is no plan in place. However, I see no silver bullet to remove Rangers, in some form or another, yet.
thomthethim, no, not really. We cannot put ourselves out of business, as you say, all we can do is apply as much pressure as we can now, argue well, hope the bank see sense and continue to plan our own future.
Kilbowie Kelt, Sir Bob was soon elevated to the top position of the SFA, his support was broader than Rangers.
row z, don’t see how our board can work on getting other clubs a new bank.
cardiffbhoy, I believe all other SPL clubs bank with the BoS.
neveralone, it’s a fascinating period of our history.
lynott67, so the cost of ‘priceless’ is £5!
Gerry, the day is young.
Efrain Juarez back at CP – STV.
henr1k- posted same yesterday,we will get big bid for James Forrest at some point,forward thinking for me.