Five at the back is an orthodox defensive shape, it’s not a headcount of defenders, which is the crux of where we went wrong last night: we chose the wrong system.
Consider the space between (debutant) Gamboa and Lustig at the first goal. No one was sure who should have been picking up Messi (reveal: it was Bitton, who didn’t track the run). There was uncertainty – presumably because we tried a new defensive system out at the Camp Nou.
Another consequence of five at the back is that your fullbacks don’t get midfield cover. Instead, Sinclair and Roberts were asked to work 40 yards out. This plan came at the cost of protecting Gamboa and Tierney.
The overwhelming tactical memory I have of our win against Barca four years ago was Neil Lennon doubling up in the fullback area.
Then we had two central defenders with Wanyama (a defensive mid, which Bitton is not) in front. Our two full backs were partnered with a wide midfield player. Diagrammatically that was four at the back, but whenever Barcelona were in possession (80% of the time), seven players were protecting the Celtic penalty area.
The abiding defensive memory from that night it the thicket of legs confronting Messi every time he got the ball. There was no space for him to pass and move into. Last night, he had more space inside the box to run into that he’ll see all season. It was simply the wrong system.
During the game I was pretty annoyed at Bitton, who I blamed for the first three goals, but he’s a deep-lying playmaker, not a defensive mid, and looked clueless in the position. Although even I know you need to track Messi’s forward runs, and my 11-yr-old knew they were about to score the third the minute we conceded a free kick 23 yards out in front of goal. Reveal: barging players 23 yards out is a mistake that gets you spoken to when playing 2004s football.
We had numbers but not a coherent defensive strategy. The lessons from The Beating of Barca in 2012 were lost. Four years ago we twice played them with these back fours:
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre
Lustig, Wilson, Ambrose, Matthews (out of position)
None of Wilson, Ambrose, Izaguirre or Matthews (at left back) would get in this Celtic team. They were all pretty standard-grade defenders, but with protection on the wings and in front, it worked.
After we lost the third concentration levels dipped, tired legs after Saturday would have been energised legs if we were still in touch. I’d also tell Scott Brown not to worry too much about giving the ball away. We’re not good enough to plan to regularly retain possession at the Camp Nou.
We’re a ‘two pass then lob it into the box or win a foul’ team at this level. Accept this and concentrate on what’s deliverable – “We are Celtic, try running through this thicket of legs”.
Scotts Brown and Sinclair played well. Moussa will beat himself up about the penalty but it was inconsequential. Gamboa and de Vries looked lost, as all Camp Nou opposition debutants (there can’t be many) and exposed keepers do.
It may have been the biggest loss in Europe but it doesn’t even come close to being our worst performance. It’s not even our worst performance in Europe of the season, so we’ll get over it quickly.
You and I both remember seven goal victories being overturned a week later. This is football. The leap required to deliver a tighter defensive system is not the magnitude it may appear.
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Aw-Naw,
I’m sure we all had that game written off – even big Sutty said “…it’s a freebie..” last night in his pre-match comments – I know I did, but it was the lack of basic defending skills or thought that concerned me.
For example we had 7 men in the box when the cross came in for Iniesta to volley home. Yet none of them were anywhere near him or the ball.
I know how hard it is to play against a team or individuals who are far far superior to you, you tire much more quickly chasing shadows, you then make silly mistakes, your thinking gets slower etc, but the basics are what I would like to have seen improved last night.
However, I wouldnt write off an EL spot just yet. It will be bloody difficult of course, but then we knew that the second the draw was completed.
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
How come when we win it’s always a great team effort but when we lose its always one players fault?
GetagripCSC
We could always get Walters Myth as manager.He’d bore us rigid but we’d probably manage a 2-3 goal defeat away from home in Europe whilst defiling both our reputation and the game as a whole.
I’m going to throw my weight behind steady progression under Brendan where improvement is gradual,and sometimes sore,but purposeful and attainable.Beats asking our players to ‘interrupt’ play with fouls.Or as it used to be called,hacking.
The prize for us is being in the groups,use the experience and money to maintain domestic superiority,and hopefully become more competitive at European level.That’s the best we can hope for.How in the real world are we supposed to have players who are capable of stopping Messi,Suarez,Neymar and Iniesta?We’d struggle against a team with one of those players in it never mind them all.
They’re better than us,end of.No amount of analysis will change that.
I’m glad we didn’t play Myth style anti-football just so our goals against column reads 3 rather than 7.
I am pragmatically embarrassed at last nights result.
Pragmatic in the knowledge that we really are a world apart from Barca and the financial model they employ to afford the youth setup, the scouts, the coaching, the worldwide academies and then the star players they purchase on top of the foreign\home grown talent they nurture.
Embarrassed at the scale of the defeat we let them with ease inflict upon us. Yes there were some wonderful passes of play by Barca but our fear to tackle solidly, close down space and the setup helped secure what should have been an acceptable if still disappointing loss into the embarrassing 7-0 defeat we helped inflict on ourselves.
I doubt, but hope I am proved wrong, that after last night we will manage to secure 3rd spot in the group. Our only saving grace will now be the 12th man at Celtic Park driving the team onto to play above their normal capabilities.
I hope my Liverpool supporting season book holding colleagues words re. Brendan do not come back to haunt often at this level and that he can with the support of the PLC build a team capable of overcoming the tactical naivety shown last night.
Onwards and upwards starting with a resounding victory on Sunday to put the bhoys back on level mentally.
Do I trust the board to spend money they did not budget for on the team? I believe you all already know the answer to that.
MWD
Full of coaches, finger pointers, character assassinations on our players the manager, the board, I’m afraid it’s not the place for me today, it’s just not nice.
Level5 lurking Huns GIRFUYs.
BMCUW
Yes they love to rub us up the wrong way but i think they
really admire our support and commitment to our club
and they know especially here in Oz they have no chance
of being as big as our name is.
H.H Mick
But the keeper can pass though :-)
Perspective:
If we also lose seven goals at HOME to Barca it still won’t be as embarrassing, shocking, unexpected or unacceptable as this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IttBaD4lGq4
Sometimes it happens: brilliance just wins by a country mile.
Watch the German goals and compare the passing, movement, positional awareness and execution of each of the moves preceding them. There are similarities to how Barca played last night. And if the mighty Brazil and their almost God-like superstars can’t cope with it, how can anyone expect our humble paupers to do so?
Perspective:
In the grand scheme of things, whether we lost 2-1 to a last minute own goal or 10-0 to a performance of sheer brilliance, it makes little difference to our prospects of coming out of the group in a (better than our seeding) third place to qualify for the Europa League’s latter stages. We still have exactly the same chance of doing that if we take 4 or more points from Borussia M… as long as they don’t beat Barca on Man City either (assuming that we don’t so so). Overall goal difference doesn’t come into it unless we finish exactly equal to them on head-to-head.
So let’s focus on getting at least those 4 points against Borussia M. We are the fourth seeds in the group, so anything better than last place is, technically, over-achievement.
And let us hope that the Tribute Act didn’t pick up any tips from watching last night’s game, because if they play like that against us the next time we meet, then they’ll probably win too!
bye then
MWD
BIGCHIPSUK – 10 IN A ROW (2001-2010) on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 1:11 PM
Last night’s traumatic performance and result could very much make a difference to our chances of getting out the group – we all have to hope that the players and management are strong enough for it not to have a lasting effect on confidence, especially when playing away from home again.
If dembele had scored that penalty! !!
WITS out….
Celtic40Me, he fact that Celtic have lost 98% of their CL away games (or whatever the oft quoted by the meeja stat is) is far more ingrained into the Celtic players’ psyche than any individual result. If anything, last night’s spanking will motivate them to try even harder to ensure that it is not repeated against Man City or in the return against Barca.
Jeezo, I had forgotten just how much of an Uber-celt TD67 was/is.
“hangs head in shame and skulks off into the faraway….”
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Starry Plough
TI……. errrrm maybe not
;-)
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
The champions of countries such as Scotland, Denmark, Greece etc play the likes of barca in a financial straitjacket.
But unfortunately the club’s reputation takes a hit when people across the world see it thrashed in that manner.
We finished up bottom in that Champions pre-season friendly tourney. Will we be invited back next year? Surely there comes a point when either we get bored of being thrashed by barca or they get bored of thrashing us.
European Football can’t continue like this with largely the same teams playing each other with the same outcome each year.
Only a matter of time before the fans of both teams and neutrals alike get sick of it.
Wrong tea, wrong tactics, wrong attitude. poor performances (SS apart). First goal SB left his player LM and moved forward. I shout at myt Sunday teammates if they do that. Never leave your man to go forward unless you get a shout that someone is picking him up. If he ran with messi then he couldnt pass to him and a midfielder would close the guy with ball down or he would shoot from 20 yards.. Then the keeper made himsilf as sma;ll as possible . We got results against thenm before when keepers played a blinder and made themselves big and closed down the forwards. messi etc will never miss when given time and space. And Bitton just let people walk by him all night. I dobn’t think Barca got out of second gear which is the disappointment to me.
BIGCHIPSUK – 10 IN A ROW (2001-2010) on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 1:23 PM
I hope so
Word of the Day from the dictionary app on my mobile is ‘longanimity’ which is described as;
“patient endurance of hardship”.
A case of an app being apt.
I like the Welcome to Catalunya banner last night, maybe we can make a similar one for our next game.
Welcome El Al Manchester Ben City….
GARY67 on 14TH SEPTEMBER 2016 12:53 PM
Davidopoulos on 14th September 2016 12:35 pm
Is Kristoffer Ajer the defensive midfielder we need?
That was my thinking until i watched him in the youths yesterday.
Sadly a long long way to go yet.
not shockedby last nights tesult infact i predicted it and to be truthful cant see us getting a point getting there is our level im afraid glory tuns in europe are long gone but accept that it is what it is now hail hail
The manager is no Messiah after all. He’s attracted some good players to the club – Toure and Sinclair, but it will take a miracle worker to get a Celtic team to retain possession playing away in Europe.
The manager played a guy at right back who has scarcely kicked a ball for the past year. Janko by all accounts was brilliant for high-flying Barnsley in the English Championship. Even Efe would have been better at right back but strangely he’s been left out of our CL squad.
I don’t think the players can learn much from last night because it was a mismatch. When you are outclassed you only learn that you were outclassed. But the manager can learn a few things.
Burgas Hoops,
I was of the same opinion as you after I watched him in the U20’s Challenge Cup Tie v Annan.
Im sure he will come good, but not ready yet. In my humble opinion of course.
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Point of order:
We didn’t buy Victor Wanyama because he was a defensive midfielder.
We bought him because he was Victor Wanyama: a 19 year old bull of an athlete with a high level of skill, an intoxicating mix for any scout.
We didn’t even know he was a defensive midfielder before we signed him, Johan Mjallby no less quoted at the time as saying he would develop into an ideal centre half as he matured.
His playing position was irrelevant to his purchase: He was a young, talented footballer in whom we saw an ideal development project and a gain on disposal. It was a well judged purchase in that respect.
The fact that he’s subsequently become a top-class defensive midfielder is beside the point.
Sevco v Celtic New Years Eve fixture is now a 12:15 KO for SKY.
MWD
Defending is so overrated. Score more than the opposition and you in the game.
I wouldn’t like Brendan to change his approach to games, which he did last night.
Much better to win, say 5-1, than 1-0.
And in the context of last night, could we really have conceded any more goals had we played our normal formation? And would we have scored perhaps one or two?
We’ll never know, but I can certainly speculate that there was no obvious advantage in having 3 centre backs. It’s not like we were up against a team of giants and needed to be wary of high balls into the box.
And in the case of Lustig, unless he is being used as an orthodox centre half, I would rather have a nimble footed player instead. Has anyone mentioned Efe?
Anyway, damage done, lessons learned and normal service to be resumed on the weekend.
BTW: Man City were rubbish last night. Couldn’t even score once.
I think we’ll do well to get a point in this group. We are probably the worst team in the CL and have been drawn in the hardest group.
That’s the reality. Our Under 19s made a real game of it against Barca – at that level there’s a relatively level playing field. At first team level there is not.
Getting into the CL helps us maintain our dominance in Scotland. Other than that … what?
79 Caps
We get to set Zadoc The Priest as our ringtones :-)
MWD
THE TOKEN TIM
Agreed mate, deffo one for the future.
MARADOMINIC
Mibbe we should try Tetley’s next then.
PHILBHOY
Green Tea surely Phil:))
If Dembele had scored from the penalty…
…we would have lost 7-1!
HH!!
As an aside. My taxi driver home from the airport was a follower of The Rangers. Used phrases like put down to division three and happy with second place this year.
Aye. Right. That’s going to happen.
However, he was emphatic in his only hope for the new club. To stop Celtic winning 10 in a row. Nothing else matters.
I still gave him the customary tip for providing such humour on an otherwise humourless night.
Were we just too nice ? Barca 8 fouls committed to our 3 . Or could we not catch them
Gooooood morning CQN
I’m just glad we got into the Champions League, a huge learning curve for many of our team.
Oh, and I hope we also manage to qualify next season
Now, Paul67, very good analysis, I would also have picked the team and layout Brendan did yesterday, and without blaming players, the gaps in our defence were huge as seen. You also hit nail on head with lack of a midfield prepared to track back
You may want to watch the Messi 3rd goal ( his hatrick) you will see a very static Bitton again
We really really need to try to get a midfield who are comfortable on the ball and in possession, therein lies a huge problem, ball retention, and finding our players with short passes
Anyway, as above we need to be qualifying to allow us to build a team and retain players in the short term
Hail Hail
Panic not !!!!!
We will take 3 points off the wee team from Manchester at home, and Monchengladbach.
STARRY PLOUGH
If a don’t get ma Tetley’s first thing in the mornin’ ma day is doomed.
Mind you I did have some yesterday, so don’t know what went wrong!