Alexander (Sandy) Bryson has been mentioned in reports concerning another controversial matter in SFA history. He was Head of Registrations when Celtic tried to register Jorge Cadete in 1996. That case led to SFA chief executive, Jim Farry, being dismissed for gross misconduct after he failed to register the player in time for him to face Rangers in a Scottish Cup tie.
The Burness report into what happened noted that Farry “deflected responsibility to Mr (Sandy] Bryson (head of registrations] …. (on] certain executive decisions”. In a contemporary article, Mirror Group Newspapers noted “it is unclear what part registration chief Sandy Bryson may have played in this debacle”.
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If you can cqn, have a look at the hearts fan (Ian from Midlothian) make a twit of himself on Four in a Bed on C4 this evening. It’ll cheer you up. He’s fallen out with everybody and has thrown a strop and won’t talk to anyone at breakfast or dinner. He’s particularly fallen out with the Irish pair on it saying ‘the Irish are thick’ in a discussion about sterotypes and completely taking the pi** when the Irish pair got everybody to do Irish dancing when it was their turn to host. t says it all !
petec @ 07:11
Actually he’s my favourite player ! :)) But time for me to retire !!!! Starting to talk more mince than usual !! G’nite fholks.
Fortunes Favour Mibbes
Make sure ye urnae driving next time and you will be rocking like a Rhino.
Thoughts are with ye my man. NN & HH
Murdochbhoy, yermanfromMK
07:26 on 1 March, 2013
Happy birthday.
‘This morning I accept his lordship’s decision, I accept it was made in good faith’
His lordship did what he was appointed to do.
Same as the magic circle inquiry.
Good morning Timland.
Despite what you hear and read remember
they where found GUILTY.
jackie mac
07:28 on 1 March, 2013
Of such people are Edinburgh juries comprised.
ernie lynch
Thanks for the birthday wishes but before any more come in I should point out my birthday was some moths ago.
The magic circle is a secret society as well.
ernie lynch
07:42 on 1 March, 2013
Surely you are being speculative. o_0
Struggling big style this morning trying to come to terms with the cover up decision yesterday by LNS.
We as a Club and a support have done nothing wrong , we played by the rules trying to win the trophies put before us . Now we are told and asked to accept that these rules applied to every club except RFC (IL).
The events of the last 12 months or so have been sugar coated to make it look like RFC(IL) were the innocent victims of a gang attack , nothing could be further from the truth .
Yet we are constantly subjected to a media led campaign of lies , RFC1872 didn’t die it was the company , being the biggest one of all .
Radio call in shows vetting their callers to make sure the party line is being pushed .
Papers printing one sided versions or opinions , no counter arguements allowed to balance the debate.
Police harassment of our support .
Unbelievable decisions in courts regarding attacks on our manager.
And all that before we even touch on the pro RFC interpretation of the rules and regulations governing Scottish football .
All of this in their favour and we are told THEY are the victims !
WE have been lied to , cheated , robbed and beaten by the scottish establishment but even though I am angry and disgusted by all of the above , I believe that We shall never be defeated.
We as a support and a Club must now take charge of our own destiny , they hate to see us standing tall and fighting injustices , now more than ever we must stand together as one and fight for what we believe in .
Celtic supporters who went before us and passed on the love of our great Club to us fought to get our Club to where we are today , now it’s our turn.
So we too can pass our love for our Club on to the next generation.
Sorry for the long rant but I feel slightly better for it .
We shall overcome .
God Bless Celtic and our Supporters .
HH
Fortunes Favour Mibbes
06:46 on 1 March, 2013
Partizan @ 06:39
Domine = Ballad of John Mclean.
=================
Aye Ah’d never had known thaht :) ya bam.
I called it Domine ‘cos my granda (a Rangers fan) called it that, and explained that he was a teacher. To schoolkids and working men. My granda saw him, Manny Shinwell and I forget the others at the Green. I’m a bit ashamed I can’t remember the others, give me time. My great-uncle was a founder of the Independant Labour Party.
The only reason I didn’t post ‘The Ibrox Disaster’ is to me that tune is ‘James Connelly’ and I didn’t want to offend anyone, though I know tunes were shared. ‘No Billy, No Dan’ was one of the lines. My granda talked of trying to see MacLean on his return from prison, but there was too many people.
Wish I could remember more of my great-uncle and my granda. One thing my granda said was even as a Rangers fan he would go to Parkhead every other Saturday. Now that have might been to have a wee half-bottle out the way of my granny, but it was to watch the football. A different world.
===
BMCUWP
I’m still in North-East mate, just south of Morpeth. Live is sweet and getting married next year. I suppose as reference to above, she is a daughter of an Ashington miner!
==
Tarrant
Was Glasgow Charity Cup different from Glasgow Cup?
=====
Oh and couldn’t give a flying one as to sexuality :)
Murdochbhoy, yermanfromMK
07:44 on 1 March, 2013
OK then.
Happy unbirthday, seeing as we seem to be in some kind of Alice in Wonderland world where words can mean whatever you want them to mean.
Mr Bryson’s effectively said to the tribunal “It doesn’t matter what you do as we have already decided to let them off when they appeal”
Is there absolutely no-one in any position of influence prepared to challenge this?
FourGreenFields
07:48 on
1 March, 2013
Fecking great post………just what I needed
A snippet from one of the better press reports this morning….
Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2285788/Rangers-stripped-SPL-titles.html
While there is no question of dishonesty, individual or corporate, we take the view that the non-disclosure was deliberate.’
‘Although it is clear to us from Mr Odam’s (former Ibrox finance director) evidence that Oldco’s failure to disclose the side letters to the SPL and the SFA was at least partly motivated by a wish not to risk prejudicing the tax advantages of the EBT scheme, we are unable to reach the conclusion that this led to any competitive advantage,’ read the report.
‘We therefore proceed on the basis that the breach of the rules relating to disclosure did not give rise to any sporting advantage, direct or indirect.’
There are damning words in the report published yesterday for the Murray Group and directors of the Oldco, including current SFA President Campbell Ogilvie, former Ibrox finance director Douglas Odam and current head of football administration Andrew Dickson.
In 42 pages always liable to breed anger and discord whatever their contents, a picture of Ibrox boardroom ineptitude, rather than dishonesty, emerges.
For 11 years, directors were informed of the EBT and side letter arrangement by Murray Group tax manager Ian McMillan and seemed disinclined to ask questions. This was how Murray’s Rangers operated. ‘Only following orders, guv,’ was the defence.
‘In our view, the apparent assumption that the side letter arrangements were entirely discretionary and that they did not form any part of any player’s contractual entitlement, was seriously misconceived,’ stated Nimmo Smith.
The report found there had been no attempt made to obtain proper legal or accountancy advice, this despite Sportsmail’s understanding that the Murray Group were charging Rangers £500,000 a year for legal services.
Finance director Odam took over responsibility for the preparation and signing of player contracts from secretary Ogilvie and discussed the mechanics of the side letters with McMillan and group internal solicitor David Horne.
In a witness statement, Odam told the commission: ‘I did not believe the letters had to be lodged with the football authorities as part of the player registration process.
‘I understood lodging the letters could have been misinterpreted as indicating a contractual commitment to the player — thus potentially prejudicing the effectiveness of the scheme.’
In layman’s terms, Odam clearly feared that telling the football authorities about the arrangement might alert the tax authorities to something which might — and did — bring awkward questions.
The decision to keep quiet about the side letters was premeditated and deliberate, as the commission report makes clear. ‘A decision was taken that the side letters need not be, or should not be, disclosed,’ it goes on.
‘The evidence of Mr Odam indicates a view amongst management of Oldco that it might have been detrimental to the desired tax treatment of the payments being made by Oldco to have disclosed the existence of side letters to the football authorities.’
The Nimmo Smith commission also considered if Rangers had breached SPL rule D1.11 concerning the fielding of ineligible players.
Here the testimony of SFA head of registrations Sandy Bryson proved crucial.
Bryson told the three-man panel that once a player is registered by the governing body, he remains so until his registration is revoked. Even if Rangers were guilty of breaching the rules on payments to players and of non-disclosure of payments, therefore, the 91 players were legitimately registered.
And, as SPL lawyer Rod McKenzie accepted, there was no way of retrospectively revoking a player’s registration due to a breach of rules. Rangers, then, did not field an ineligible player and breached no rules there.
It would be gratifying to think all of this brings a long-running, snarling episode towards closure.
Daily Record snippet…..
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-fined-250000-independent-commission-1735244
But, in fact, Rangers are about to be officially cleared of any serious wrong-doing and fined only for a breach of rules regarding appropriate paperwork.
Green claims his refusal to “surrender” Scottish Premier League titles has been vindicated by today’s outcome.
Partizan
FFS.
Here’s me reading this with one eye open ready to collapse in a heap of tired misery, then you mention south of Morpeth. I know Rothbury very well. Now we are talking about a good class of people !! And ffs, this is aside the old Gazza/ shooter story !
Amazing folks in Northumberland !! They speak in song :)) And good luck trying to understand them :)))
At last some sense amongst the subterfuge
—
Michael Grant on Rangers verdict Chief football writer Herald Friday 1 March 2013
WASN’T the Nimmo Smith report supposed to be all about “title-stripping”?
Isn’t that the line everyone has been force-fed since the Independent Commission was created back in August? What a sore disappointment it must have been for those who had the time and inclination to pore through its 18,000 words, sprawling over 42 pages, yesterday lunchtime. Not a stripped title anywhere. The phrase didn’t even get a mention.
This being Scotland, and this being the Old Firm, the reaction to the Commission’s findings was as predictable as it was laughable. For the past seven months just about anyone with a platform to speak for Rangers – led by club chief executive Charles Green – has whipped themselves up about the supposed inevitability of the club being stripped of Scottish Premier League titles won in the “EBT years”.
The line from Green was quite unequivocal: this was a kangaroo court, a Mickey Mouse operation, the verdict was preordained and title-stripping was being aggressively pursued by Rangers’ enemies within the SPL. Any quiet protestations from Nimmo Smith or the SPL itself were lost in the din. When they said there was a range of sanctions, or that Rangers could as easily be found guilty as innocent, it didn’t seem as if anyone wanted to listen.
So for seven months Rangers belittled the investigation while everyone else, or so it seemed, licked their lips at the idea of a independent outsider riding into town to administer justice. And then, as soon as the findings were digested within a few seconds yesterday, the inevitable 180 degree turn: Rangers doing high-fives, everyone else pouring vitriol on Nimmo Smith and anyone else involved for bottling it. Thus, Rangers were able to embrace Nimmo Smith’s verdict as a vindication, even a victory. Plenty were laughing at the idea of being fined £250,000, not least because there isn’t a cat-in-hell’s chance of even that modest sum being coughed up.
The thing is, yesterday’s report found that there were years of rule-breaking under Sir David Murray. It was deliberate and the “seriousness, extent and duration” of it merited a substantial financial penalty, said Nimmo Smith. The findings gloss over the complaint held by rival fans that only by using EBTs and saving on tax could Rangers afford all the big-name players who helped win them so many trophies in the first place.
There is only one line which talks to that: “If it had not been intended that the player would directly benefit from the EBT arrangements then there is no reason to believe that the player would have agreed to accept the overall financial package offered by Oldco.” Doesn’t that sound like trying to secure sporting advantage? The Commission thought not.
Relief at keeping the titles was understandable, but otherwise the findings were nothing to be proud of. The investigation was satisfied that the covering up of information wasn’t done to gain any sporting advantage – and that it didn’t – but was instead intended to keep things from the taxman. The Big Tax Case and the SPL’s EBT probe effectively went in Rangers’ favour, but there has been nothing for Murray to crow about in this. What a damaging ordeal he subjected Rangers to by plunging into EBTs.
Amid the inevitable forest fire of reaction, Green released a statement which, while not free of grandstanding, did make one sound point. If the SFA and SPL had their way he would have signed up to title-stripping as part of the deal offered to secure SFA membership for his Newco regime last summer. Instead he resisted and secured membership anyway, a holding of nerve which has been emphatically vindicated.
The SPL’s own Commission ruled that title-stripping – or any sporting sanction – would have been disproportionate. SFA chief executive Stewart Regan and his SPL counterpart, Neil Doncaster, now have some explaining to do about why they wanted Rangers to sign up to that when it turned out not to have been necessary. The SFA and SPL rules on registrations and eligibility also looked flawed if a condition of registration can be breached for years without any consequence for the player or players involved.
Spare a thought, too, for the wee fellows at Spartans and East Stirlingshire. Spartans were thrown out of the Scottish Cup in 2011 because Keith McLeod was ruled ineligible by the SFA. The offence? The contract he had signed was dated only once, not twice. East Stirlingshire were chucked out in the same year because details of his loan extension had not been received by the SFA. Good luck to anyone trying to convince those clubs that justice is equally dispensed.
ernie lynch
I chose the word stoicism specifically this morning, I like it’s sound but I chose it more for it’s meaning.
Stoics were concerned with the active relationship between cosmic determinism and human freedom, and the belief that it is virtuous to maintain a will that is in accord with nature. Because of this, the Stoics presented their philosophy as a way of life, and they thought that the best indication of an individual’s philosophy was not what a person said but how he behaved.
Fourgreenfields
All the give us true
However the reality is:-
The oldco is dead …liquidated
The Newco are in div3
They have a dreadful football team
An appalling manager
And…a spiv for a CEO
In Scotland the MSM are on message to fool everyone …..they are fooling themselves
And ….LNS condemned them as cheats ..pyrrhic victory for the Huns …the titles are the history of another football club ….and …all non Hun football folk know they cheated …
PFAyr
Back in Oct 2010 around Dougiegate time I recall John Reid at the AGM saying something on the lines of Celtic wanting a judicial? enquiry into the SFA but elected instead to do a deal with Regan.
Whatever Regan may have done in terms of SFA reform has been swept away by the SFA putting commercial concerns before sporting integrity and I think Celtic would get the backing of all clubs into how this debacle took place under the SFA governance.
My own reading now is that The SFA used a mixture of trust and familiarity with clubs to do their job.
Rangers simply by not disclosing full payment details broke the trust system and yet appear to be benefitting from their dishonesty. So what do the SFA intend to do to restore public confidence in their systems?
As long as Celtic are stuck in Scotland we have to be governed by the SFA, but until some official enquiry is demanded and CO is removed from office as he would be conflicted by it, the game cannot move on and attendances will fall further.
Celtic Mac
02:43 on 1 March, 2013
‘Paul67 et al
The votes are in, the people have spoken (don’t worry Paul I will not use the full quotation) and the Party many of here still have faith in received around 10% of the vote, whilst UKIP, were only 1700 votes behind the winning Lib-Dems. The Labour Party came second back in 1994, en route to power. Unionists on here need to take heed, nothing is forever.’
############
Looks like the next Westminster Government will be a coalition between the LibDems and UKIP then.
Or perhaps what this shows is that the Tory vote might be split with UKIP (a bit like it is up here with the SNP) and that Labour will win by a sizable majority. That’s certainly what all the polls are predicting.
And that’s bad news for the nats. You know that, which is why you’re posting nonsense.
I tell you what I think will happen.
After ducking and diving over two terms in office Salmond has been backed into a corner and now has to hold a referendum. That referendum will be held against a backdrop where a Labour victory is expected. The nats’ hope that people will be scared into voting yes for fear of another Tory government will be dashed. There will be a substantial no vote, the question will be off the political agenda for a generation (that’s 25 years) and the SNP will implode in a frenzy of in fighting and back stabbing.
Keep hoping for a Tory government. It’s what nats do.
And we haven’t all forgotten that it was the nats that brought down a Labour government, paving the way for Thatcher.
And we haven’t all forgotten Salmond’s verdict on Thatcher ‘We didn’t mind the economic side so much’.
Fortunes Favours Maybe
Haha My future Da-in law has worked Northumberland mines all his life. Bedlington, Blyth and Ashington. Big lump of a guy, and cannae understand a word he says. Luckily he doesn’t understand me either!
Just dropped in to say…
I still can’t understand the amount of Celtic fans on here and in social circles who are genuinely – shocked at the hun result yesterday !!!
To cut a long story short…not on the same scale, obviously but…think – Nazi Germany as the hun establishment and – the Jewish fholk as the Celtic Community. I have nothing but respect for the Jewish fholk who suffered through what they went through – Holocaust.
A lot of the Celtic support find themselves in this country as a result of the Irish – Holocaust.
Anyway…what I’m trying to illustrate here, basically for the Celtic fans who it would seem are, still – wet behind the ears – is that, We(Celtic supporters), will always be viewed in this country as – Interlopers.
I say I wasn’t surprised by the outcome although, before the decision was made, I allowed myself to be seduced by Paul67’s article. The old heart ruled the head that – Justice would be seen to be done.
Alas…the norm in this country was the order of the day. Again !!!
So…Fellow Celt’s please try to – know yer history – before you fall into the trap that I did.
I asked Paul67 before the – Tax Case if Justice would be done ?
I laid it out as best I could for Paul67 and, ended up shortening my question to the following…The Masonic Handshake v’s Glasgow Celtic FC. Who’ll win.
Paul67 told me – “The Ghood Guy’s will win !!!”
Now here’s the thing…why do I still believe what Paul67 told me ?
Hmmmmmm
HH
podium?……..ach, a couple of ye have nicked in ahead of me……….
HH
Any paper articles re Oldco ..
Bit like Woolworths or HMV taking out an ad!
They’re gone. Papers need to Hype for sales.
Standing back it’s comical and a wee bit scary.
Auldheid
Ogilvie must go ….we must insist upon it …
If we don’t the game is up for me …
Good morning fellow Celts- another lovely day in Renfrewshire.
So LNS failed to strip titles. The only surprise is that anyone is surprised. Seriously, why would the establishment stuff their own?
We need to just accept that is how it works here and get on with the enjoyment of sticking it to them every chance we get. You can get upset even turn your back on fitba, on Celtic. That gives them what they want – they will laugh at you. Why give them any satisfaction?
Remember this
Every time we win a trophy, every time we take a massive euro scalp. They cringe and fume.
The best we will get from all if this is their liquidation and a tribute act playing in the 4th tier this year and the 3rd tier next year. They will struggle for years. We are en route to maybe 10 or more, if we stick together and don’t tear ourselves apart. Ourselves Alone!
When this all started I would have given my arm for the state they are in right now, how they must feel deep down behind all the bluster. You know it and they know you know it. Just smile it annoys the hell out of them.
The SFA will do nothing. The Celtic board will wring their hands and say & do nothing. They have been warned off – everyone knows how that works.
So it will be left to Celtic fans to enjoy- if – we can recognise what we have already achieved !
HH
….PFayr
08:15 on
1 March, 2013
Ogilvie will go. To a cushy wee job at UEFA, just like his former enforcer in chief Dallas.
Saltires..
Accept cheating and complicity …not for me …craven attitude
Kayal33
Probably ….which other ludge buddy is being lined up for the job ??
FFM 0631
The b*gger kept that to himself!
MM’s is just round the corner from my nephew’s flat-if you ever play there midweek,let me know,please.
Been trying for years to improve his taste in music-I gave up trying to foist mine on him!
Ernie
It is too early for this but perhaps you’d like to point out why the Nats pushed for a vote of no confidence in that Labour Governement – the sham Scottish Parliament vote which saw a majority say Yes but it wasn’t enough for Westminster – oh and secret Tory cabinet documents leaked years later which showed that from the minute oil was discovered a separate account was created at Whitehall intending all money never to be seen in the place whose proximity it was closest to and in whose international waters it still remains.
They told everyone in the 70’s it would be gone by now or close to now and they’re still doing it.
The Labour Party then used the old you let Thatcher in excuse to beat the SNP for years when really it was they by their dismissive attitude towards democracy – a majority no matter how small is a majority – which led to a chain of events.
I’m not getting into a whole day of this today. There are more pressing issues concerning us.
Auldheid
08:09 on 1 March, 2013
________________________________
Since the sad passing of the late – Paul McBride QC(RIP)
It has been the signal for – all systems go for – Get The huns off the hook !!! imo
The hun establishment know full well that – The Celtic Board /PLC – are a collection of – toothless tigers. Sad but true. I have been saying for years on here and , elsewhere is that the current Celtic hierarchy are a rudderless ship. I hope I’m wrong but, I think that charge will be justified as the weeks go on.
In a perverse type of way…it could end up going full circle here with – the huns off the hook and, the Celtic support ending up having to become militant with our own leaders.
HH
Happy st david’s day to all our welsh posters
PF
I’m no craven – but I know that all shouting and bawling about it will not change one single thing. Learn to accept what you cannot change.. Or be one very unhappy bunny
I’m enjoying the mess they are in right now. I’m happy with that because its more than I ever thought we would get.
MURDOCHBHOY 0726
“This morning I accept his lordship’s decision, I accept it was made in good faith and I’ll maintain my stoicism.”
Sorry to be so impolite,bit IMO Bryson effectively perjured himself with a dishonest interpretation of policy which would not withstand the slightest scrutiny.
There is no precedent in the game for such an interpretation,but LNS seems to have grasped it as the perfect get-out.
I doubt he would have permitted such in any court proceedings over which he has presided.
Did any of these great legal minds check whether or not the ‘brown envelope’ payments were declared in the Oldco audited accounts……?
I posted shortly after the decision was released yesterday about the evidence given by Sandy Bryson. As Paul67 has also identified, his evidence undermined the SPL’s case.
Sandy Bryson operates from Hampden, within the same building as the SPL. Why did it take until the Commission hearing for the SFA’s novel interpretation of its own rules to be presented to the SPL. It appears clear from the report that the SPL’s advocate was not previously made aware of this interpretation.
At no point over the last 9 months have the SFA and SPL discussed this? Or, perhaps, was it a lightbulb moment from the person who operates under the body presided over by Campbell Ogilvie?
They are found guilty of tax avoidance by the FTT, but not to the extent they could have done. Nonetheless they are found guilty. They celebrate a ‘victory’.
They are found guilty of deliberate improper registration of players over more than a decade, cheating to the rest of the world outside of the SFA, they get to keep their ill gotten gains. Nonetheless they are found guilty. They celebrate a ‘victory’.
They are not interested in fairness, a level playing field, they don’t care if what they do is wrong, as long as they can carry on with their faux triumphalism they will remain ‘ra peepil’ in their own brain cell.
For those talking of walking away from Celtic as some sort of misguided (IMO) protest against the SFA etc, if you do, they win.