I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.
I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?
“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”
Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course. History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate. In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.
The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board. Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.
If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats. So much for the history, but what about the punishment?
Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past. For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.
The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.
But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease. Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club. The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco. And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.
We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.
The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations. Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.
Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.
Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.
No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
Pay your bills!
637 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 10
- 11
- 12
- 13
- 14
- 15
- 16
- 17
- »
sixtaeseven: No NewCo in SPL and it’s Non-Negotiable! –
If and when the FTT finds against Rangers, we won’t have long to wait for liquidation. Within 24 hours of an announcement finding in favour of HMRC, Hector will issue a winding-up order, and that will be that.
We may be just a few days away from such a scenario.
Good morning CQNers, I find myself working just outside Cowdenbeath this morning, 2 jobs then home, more importantly, i’ve found that John Thompsons Memorial is only a few miles away.
I see Alex Thompsons updated his blog, glad someones still digging.
Hail Hail
Been thinking of what to call Newcomer fans….came up with ‘Fans formally known as Huns’ you could use this § symbol to abreviate it.
Sticking with the Prince theme they could do a cover(takeover) version of ‘Paisley Park. They could rename one of his songs as ‘When Huns Cry’.
Palacio67 –
Cowdenbeath is a strange town. My son played for them as a teenager and I used to drive him up to training from Edinburgh. The first night I dropped him off, I had 2 hours to kill, so had a bite to eat before popping into the nearest boozer for a pint of shandy. As I sauntered in, the 20 or so who were there all fell into silence and watched my every move as I ordered my drink. It felt like I had walked into a scene from Village of the Damned.
Fortunately, after that first visit, I was allowed to sit in the players lounge where I could watch Champions League football live on TV. I also got to know Craig Levine, who was manager of the club at that time.
I always felt a strange sense of relief every time I drove out of Cowdenbeath.
Happy Friday, Guys.
Che @ 08:21 … I like it!
[Although I think ‘slip-ons’ would have worked better than ‘brogues’ … ;-)]
FF
Tom McLaughlin on 13 April, 2012 at 08:43 said:
Tom ,I get the feeling the same would happen to you ,if
you walked into bairds or bar 67.
Hail hail g’day g’dunder
PJBhoynyc on 13 April, 2012 at 03:50:
Thanks for that interesting note.
You could well have come up with a new name for a post-liquidisation Ibrokes: viz. The Exploding Policy Arena
No?
Oh, well …
PJBhoynyc on 13 April, 2012 at 03:50 said:
There is a group of political theorists who apply a model to studying politics called Policy Network Analysis. The theory is that if you look at all the various groups/lobbyists who have an interest in the outcome of a particular policy, when the policy is finalized you can deduce which groups have had the greatest influence or power.
Normally this is a pretty dry, affair because those with the most influence tend to retain it over a long period of time. When it gets interesting is when an event happens, and interests need to redefine themselves, or lose their influence. This, the theorists cal an Exploding Policy Arena. For example, when Edwina Currie casually mentioned, correctly, that most eggs contain salmonella, the results were significant. Egg sales dropped, farmers were pissed off and the conservative party lost one of it’s more loyal interests groups from the rural constituencies….
Anyway….
What Scottish Fitba is going through right now is an Exploding Policy Arena. There are many diverse interests within the “industry’, media (concerned with sales, not truth), supporters (concerned with sporting integrity, tradition, winning, supporting, etc etc), Officials (concerned with maintaining their position and the status quo), and PLC’s (concerned with cash flow and long term financial returns). The point being the interests are many and diverse, and not neccesarily congruent.
I believe we are witnessing a fascinating, historically relevant Exploding Policy Arena, full of the panic, apprehension and downright stupid self serving interests, as indicated by the comical and ill thought out manouveres of those with the most to lose, SFA & SPL officials, the MSM, and certain chairmen.
Celtic PLC also have influence to lose. Their partner in voting and sponsorship is in disarray, and vultures, albeit irrational vultures, are circling. Be under no illusion, from a fiscal point of view, the OF is, was, might be alive and kicking. I would be happy to see that unholy alliance terminated. I believe it would be beneficial for all in the long term.
The real interest in the game, the moral majority are the supporters of all clubs. They have a voice. And it should be heard, above the din of more amplified and influential needs. The supporters appear to be saying let justice be done, and, importantly, be seen to be done. Personally, I believe football at all levels will flourish in the longer term if just procedures are followed. To paraphrase Scotland’s greatest manager, without the supporters Opinion being listened to, the game is gone.
Whatever happens, some political theorists will look out the outcome, and identify who run or ruin the game in Scotland.
Fascinating Times.
share on F’book or Twitter
An interesting one to re post – hope you don’t mind PJBhoy…..
I hope Celtic take a stand on this and show leadership to the rest……whether they listen or not is upto them.
We are more than a football club…..
PJBhoynyc on 13 April, 2012 at 03:50 said:
There is a group of political theorists who apply a model to studying politics called Policy Network Analysis. The theory is that if you look at all the various groups/lobbyists who have an interest in the outcome of a particular policy, when the policy is finalized you can deduce which groups have had the greatest influence or power.
Normally this is a pretty dry, affair because those with the most influence tend to retain it over a long period of time. When it gets interesting is when an event happens, and interests need to redefine themselves, or lose their influence. This, the theorists cal an Exploding Policy Arena. For example, when Edwina Currie casually mentioned, correctly, that most eggs contain salmonella, the results were significant. Egg sales dropped, farmers were pissed off and the conservative party lost one of it’s more loyal interests groups from the rural constituencies….
Anyway….
What Scottish Fitba is going through right now is an Exploding Policy Arena. There are many diverse interests within the “industry’, media (concerned with sales, not truth), supporters (concerned with sporting integrity, tradition, winning, supporting, etc etc), Officials (concerned with maintaining their position and the status quo), and PLC’s (concerned with cash flow and long term financial returns). The point being the interests are many and diverse, and not neccesarily congruent.
I believe we are witnessing a fascinating, historically relevant Exploding Policy Arena, full of the panic, apprehension and downright stupid self serving interests, as indicated by the comical and ill thought out manouveres of those with the most to lose, SFA & SPL officials, the MSM, and certain chairmen.
Celtic PLC also have influence to lose. Their partner in voting and sponsorship is in disarray, and vultures, albeit irrational vultures, are circling. Be under no illusion, from a fiscal point of view, the OF is, was, might be alive and kicking. I would be happy to see that unholy alliance terminated. I believe it would be beneficial for all in the long term.
The real interest in the game, the moral majority are the supporters of all clubs. They have a voice. And it should be heard, above the din of more amplified and influential needs. The supporters appear to be saying let justice be done, and, importantly, be seen to be done. Personally, I believe football at all levels will flourish in the longer term if just procedures are followed. To paraphrase Scotland’s greatest manager, without the supporters Opinion being listened to, the game is gone.
Whatever happens, some political theorists will look out the outcome, and identify who run or ruin the game in Scotland.
Fascinating Times.
share on F’book or Twitter
alex thomson @alextomo Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Waited 3 days for UEFA to say they’re confident SFA will sort out the mess!
That’ll be Uefa’s answer then…
…copied twice……..
anyway, it’s well worth the second read.
voguepunter –
S’funny. Now that you mention it . . .
New name for ors?
An a viz theme what about
bluster nomads ?
voguepunter –
On a seriously funny note, the following day at work in Edinburgh, I related the story of my first visit to Cowdenbeath. One female colleague – Anna from Maryhill – quipped . . . Could it be that in Cowdenbeath, even YOU are dashingly good-looking?
Tom McLaughlin on 13 April, 2012 at 08:53 said:
Tom,nice one,you’ve got to be good looking ,you’re a tim.
Good Afternoon from a blisteringly hot Cebu……
Well it appears that the huns will do as they have (ever) done since eighteen canteen; act with dignity, erm, naw, impunity!. Aye impunity, aided and abetted by the usual suspects and the brotherhood. Twas ever thus…..
Hope all ‘CQNrs’ are well…
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
Tom
You can’t issue a Winding Up Order against a company in Administration. Administration protects the company while the Court appointed Managers try to sort the mess out.
Another good Daily Mail article today. Fans reps from 10 SPL clubs all oppose Zombie Rangers being admitted to the SPL under the Cheats’ Charte although a couple do say that they might have to accept it on financial grounds.
And there is a good quote from Paul67 outlining our opposition too.
Dickie Davies Eyes
The Maloney argument’s been done to death here, so I’ll spare everyone. What caught my ointerest about those Wigan fans’ comments was their attention to the ‘free role’ – this was something Shaun provided in his last season at Celtic, when, for a short period, Lenny had them play 4-2-3-1.
Since Shaun’s injury/departure, we’ve been unable to find a candidate for that position, but recently, in games against Dunfermline (2-0) and last weekend at Kilmarnock, Commons played behind the strikers, supported by 3 central midfielders, to devastating effect. Ibrahim, on his arrival, was touted by Lennon as a number 10, and it’ll be interesting to see how he does next season, but who knows? We may already have our no.10 in Kris Commons.
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 13 April, 2012 at 08:57 said:
Gordon ,you better stop bumming up the daily Mail,otherwise
blantyretim and his Che Guevara cohorts will give you pelters.
Just off the red eye….
A quick thumb through the free redtops has:
1. Jabba spouting off about 3rd division demotion and liquidation, but ultimately “what’s best for newco’ message of stockpiling season ticket money for Govan Stolers, sorry Strollers, assault on the SPL in 2015 (ps jab a, have ticketus just disappeared?) &
2. The daily mail doing a straw poll of the 10 SPL clubs supporters chiefs….and the result is
Div 3 8 points ( with special support from AFC, DAFC & HMFC surprisingly!)
SPL. 1 point (hibs, grudgingly)
Not sure 1 point. (m’well)
Our own P67 gets a couple of column millimetres, but his vote disnae count
No need to buya paper now Bhoys
Hhplc
Good morning friends a nd a Big Haoppy Friday the Thirteenth from a very bright and sunny East Kilbride. A rare day’s leave for me today and heading off later this morning for a cheeky wee o0vernight with Mrs Baldie, so no EK weather report tomorrow.
In the meantime, a wee question to start the day. Now, I fully realise and accept that this might win me ‘Anorak of the Year’ award . But having rewatched the whole game again last night would any of you like to guess at how many songs we sang during last Saturday’s game at Rugby Park (during the actual game)? Answers (and our full set list) in a wee while…
Jobo
Couple of pre-work thoughts, apologies if already covered.
1. Lots of posts on RTC last night suggesting the SPL proposals will fail because of the SFA rule that a club license cannot be transferred from one legal entity to another. If this is breached/ignored, surely UEFA will step in, as the SFA rule derives from their own club licensing structure, and is designed specifically to stop the “old switcheroo”.
2. Jabba returns from Oz to the Record and says RFC must start again in Division3. Is this the real Jabba? Has he spent too long in the antipodean sunshine? Or are we seeing a new approach from the MSM?
3. RFC fans proposing a boycott. Truly, there is no beginning to their collective genius. Let’s see… the SPL is desperate to keep you in the league becasue of your supposed economic benefit. It proposes rule changes that would save you from oblivion but which carry a mild sporting sanction. Your reaction? To threaten a boycott, thereby removing the one reason to save you in the first place.
Both STVGrant and Alex Thomson given identical replies from UEFA to two separate enquiries. They are confident the SFA will take care of things.
So much for Platini.
The Battered Bunnet –
I was told that some months ago, obviously before they went into Administration.
Thanks for putting me straight.
Top of the morning to you all from a bright and sunny Fife.
What’s this I hear? Comparing Fife’s finest town Cowdenbeath to the village of the damned and likening it to something from the Wicker Man?
Seriously, Cowdenbeath is no different from any small mining town/village in Central Scotland and there are many good people there.
Sadly, like the rest of Scotland, Cowdenbeath was blighted by the reaction of the British Government and Scottish Church to the influx of the poor, starving Irish in the middle to end of the 19th century and the residual bigotry they propagated, though shunned by the majority, is still present in a minority.
The flute band used to accompany the parade on the local Gala day and when I enquired with a local if this were not odd, he looked at me like as if I were stupid.
I think much of the bigotry still evident in Cowdenbeath is because it was the local parish of the infamous Jacob Primmer, a rabble rouser of some renown, who preached to the citizens of Cowdenbeath town….see what I did there? Eat your heart out Darryll.
Looking for a big win on Sunday.
H.H.
up_over_goal on 13 April, 2012 at 09:05 said:
Both STVGrant and Alex Thomson given identical replies from UEFA to two separate enquiries. They are confident the SFA will take care of things.
So much for Platini.
Isn’t that a bit premature? Surely Platini and UEFA have to give the SPL/SFA a chance to do the right thing, and only step in if they fail to do so.
I honestly don’t think anyone at UEFA, when asked the question, could give any other answer at this juncture.
up_over_goal on 13 April, 2012 at 09:00
I like that idea.
For me the best game Naka played for us was his first v Dundee Utd when he was given that free role and played across the park behind the strikers.
could have the curious case of the Huns (new owners, fans, media) wanting the Newco to start in Div3 for various reasons.
Celtic wanting them in Div3 as some small form of justice.
But the Gang of 10 wanting them in the SPL for their own short sighted interests.
UEFA to intervene on………………..
Sectarianism, Licensing, Newco accepting share in SPL………………
Wont happen,
FFP play rules done exist for EPL and La Liga clubs Billions in debt
Up over goal 09.00
Interesting point you make regarding a player operating in a free role behind the strikers a la Kris Commons. Its very effective and one many of us have advocated for some time. Its a role which suits Kris and one where he offers more than Ki in my opinion . In fact its a role ideally where Paddy McCourt would also excel in.
Agree with Tom
uefa giving SFA a chance to do the correct thing
Jobo, you are an anorek! Very interested in answer though. Must be over 20 songs. Have you the names and minutes of each song too :-) rare day off for me too!
SffS
SFFS –
Thanks for responding. So far you’re the closest guess!
Yes full list coming up soon with timings of each song as no doubt someobody on here may look to challenge the accuracy of my detailed report.
Jobo
blantyretim on 13 April, 2012 at 09:17 said:
uefa giving SFA a chance to do the correct thing
UEFA waiting on SFA to do the correct thing,
SFA waiting on SPL to do the correct thing.
SPL waiting on rainjurs to do the correct thing.
SFL waiting for an unspecified reason before doing the correct thing.
SFA waiting on Craig Whyte before doing the correct thing.
Duff and Phelps waiting on bidders before doing the correct thing.
Bidders waiting on HMRC before doing the correct thing.
Ally McCoist waiting on a pie delivery before doing the correct thing.
Tom McLaughlin
You may be right, but to respond to two entirely separate questions with the same reply suggests a very much hands off approach. Thomson’s questions centred around political interference in football. Now, UEFA could easily have trotted out their stance on this (a bit like HMRC’s quote on the viability of companies that can’t pay tax – remember that one?), which would have sent a clear message without treading on the SFA’s toes. To give a bland vote of confidence in the SFA – who haven’t exactly been great at clamping down on Rangers’ misdemeanours of the last 10 years – suggests they are more than happy to wash their hands of the matter.
Celticbhoy
I remember Naka debut v DU, he was outstanding. Also mind a hat trick at tannadice after he had a nightmare for first 40 mins.
Hail Hail
Don’t think we should write off UEFA just yet. In fact, saying they are confident that the SFA will “do the right thing” is actually a rather pointed way of saying “we are watching”…
It acknowledges that there is a “right” and a “wrong” way to deal with this, and that UEFA have a view on what that is.
UEFA have actually been quite tough on financial and sporting wrong-doing, much more so than on things like racism and sectarianism, which I think they consider tawdry little details that should be sorted out at local level.
Platini can see the potential for chaos in European football if clubs build up unsustainable debts and then default. At the moment the Spanish and English clubs are on the edge of a precipice – but they are not falling over it yet.
RFC on the other hand are like Wile E Coyote, little legs still running but with no ground beneath them. They are just about to fall and UEFA know that if they get away with minimal financial and sporting sanctions the door will be open to other clubs to try something similar.
UEFA always gives priority to the national associations to sort things out. But when they don’t – as happened with our friends Sion – they don’t hesitate to intervene themselves.
Tom
The UEFA reply is vague to the point of being useless.
I’m sure we all hope that someone at UEFA is keeping a beady eye in this; and / or that the appropriate people in Scotland are able to keep them suitably well informed.
Remember, too: this is the same SFA whose President is Campbell Ogilvie …
FF