I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.
I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?
“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”
Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course. History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate. In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.
The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board. Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.
If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats. So much for the history, but what about the punishment?
Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past. For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.
The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.
But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease. Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club. The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco. And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.
We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.
The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations. Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.
Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.
Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.
No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
Pay your bills!
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MWD
not happy with the question about attending games….no option for just going to Celtic home games..
I did say that on the survey
Anyone see the moustachioed Rangers fan on Reporting Scotland. He looked remarkably fresh from escaping that mad lorry driver in Steven Spielberg’s “Duel”. Especially as that film is over 40 years old!
Craiginho
pedrocaravanachio67 on 12 April, 2012 at 22:22 said:
………..
There was the usual damage after the last game against the Hun on 28th Dec, they wrecked the toilets, it may have been that, I hole they never return, evil mindless thugs.
V
I suppose we can hand over tickets as it’ll be D&P that owe us rather than the huns.
Lennybhoy yes It was before the end of the season last time around.
V
I have just e mailed SKY Sports on http://www.skysports.com/contactus/skysportswebsitefeedback/0,29709,,00.html
Explaining my disgust in the cheats charter currently being drawn up which destroys any sporting integrity in the Scottish game!
I have also told them that any newco rangers being allowed to drop straight into the SPL will result in my cancellation of sky sports from my package .
Paul I urge you to pen a article urging the entire Celtic support to do exactly the same!
Let sky knowing there is a newco rangers in the SPL next season then we will cancel our subscriptions !!!!
Let’s branch out to the other clubs and show sky what will happen if this is forced upon us
Paul67 said the paying for damage at each others stadium doesn’t happen. A story put about to try to lessen the damage I suppose, if he’s correct.
Darrel King has actually gone much further than his colleagues, and earlier , in his investigations into the BTC. That was decent journalism. What I heard on Radio tonight was a man completely unable to justify his position into what happens now.
He was so taken aback by the questioning from a colleague that he failed totally to provide any logic for his position, and merely stammered and stuttered into a ridiculous response.
“because you canny…..you just canny”
That sums up the position many are taking when asked “why shouldn’t Rangers pay an appropriate penalty with Newco being denied SPL entry”
It’s coming down to raw emotion now, when all else is shown to be flawed then revert to threats , scaremongering and pleading.
There hasn’t been one minutes sensible debate about the logic of an SFL 3 start. Even when Traynor raised it tonight, there was no meat put on the bone, and no discussions around a budgetary position. For every £ saved off of the newco budget, a buyer would be able to offer that £ to the creditors.
It would of course mean some football pain, but it would be a sign that the buyers actually cared about the creditors. They don’t of course, and fair enough, two of the potential buyers had nothing to do with running up the amounts owed.Why should they pay off Murray and Whytes lunacy.
However come out and say so, this charade of wanting to selectively save the good parts of the history and dump the bits you don’t like (along with the money due to creditors) is nauseating.
What is being attempted here is a Con job that Boss Tweed at Tammany Hall would have seen as too outrageous to get away with.
Protests, boycotts and any other, I honestly believe all decisions on a way forward have been agreed.
Let us all let SKY know WHAT will happen to the people’s money if a newco rangers is allowed into the SPL .
Nobody wants them in except the SPL
But what they forget is this…..
They say it’s all about the sky contract?
Who pays sky money to watch these games..?
That very money that sky uses a proportion of to pay the SPHELL
Let’s tell sky that we will cancel our subscription if this happens .
This is the best we can do!!!
Don’t wait till it actually happens!
We only have weeks!
Barcabhoy on 12 April, 2012 at 22:52 said:
—————-
From memory DK was being badgered (oo-er missus) by Spiers to state his position on whether Rankers should be thrown out the league if the two contracts were proven to be true. He eventually blurted out that no, even if true they should not be thrown out.
Nice to know! :-)
HH
Paddy…
It all hinges on the sky deal!
The very deal that WE pay for !
Tell sky that we won’t tolerate a newco through a cheats charter
I’m out of here again…
Until we meet again…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on 12 April, 2012 at 21:22 said:
All good points James. But I think, the main problem, is that they dont actually care. Thats right, most huns couldn’t care less, if the ‘big hoose’ goes down, they want everyone else down with them. They dont want to watch us win league after league, they cant take it, they wont take, so either there is a Rangers team that is capable of beating us, (doesnt actually need to have better players, they just need to be in the same league for the mib effect to work), and if they cant have that, they want to take what they think is ‘their’ ball, and go home, dragging their knuckles all the way!
The ‘succulant lamb’, ‘laptop loyal’ scottish media? Do we honestly think they are any different? That they are looking forward to printing stories about our cup wins, our league wins. Make no mistake, our euro campaigns would get coverage like never before. When we lose! They dont want to print positive stories about us, and their wont be enough nagative stories for even them to make up, with no huns.
Our, now what was it, custodians of our game? The same custodians who were sure the cup final could be delayed to suit rangers, before even consulting the other team. The same custodians, who delayed player contracts, to give rangers an advantage to win the league. The same guys, who let those, mibs, (can they actually be called officials), run onto the park to influence, oops, I mean take charge of games. There are actually hundreds of examples of ‘honest mistakes’, but I dont think I can ever, ever forget the Rangers vs Dundee Utd game by McCurry. Maybe there are worse, but watching that game, really did remind me of the wrestling, where the whole crowd saw the other guy cheat, but somehow the guy in the middle missed it. (Of course, in this case, it wasnt just cheating that was missed, it was perfectly legitimate goals, not being given, right in front of us, live on TV!
There are many in Scotland, who care about the good of our game. But the huns dont, the people in charge dont, and the ones who should be writting about it, or pointing these flaws out, dont care either.
They think the trophies are theirs, that they have the right to win everything, and like a spoilt wee brat, once they dont get their own way, they are just going to start crying all the way home, picking up ‘their’ ball, if they can.
We need to convince the other players, that the game can go on. We need to stop them taking the ball, or find another one, asap. But no, I do not want the spoilt child staying, and making new rules to suit him. Because if its not a fair game, I dont care either. I know some say support no matter what. But its my money, my free time, and its precious. So it gets spent wisely. I grew out of wrestling a long time ago, it might not be a conscious choice, but I know myself, my attention would start to go elsewhere, somewhere interesting……..
pauloantony on 12 April, 2012 at 22:59 said:
Sky will take us to an English league, pay for view Celtic home (many English supporters) and away (many tic supporters) is a cash cow.
We will grow out of and away from the Old Firm tag once and for all.
Lennybhoy…
Good night pal :-)
We can either grumble about the cheats charter ….
Know our place …
Shut it and stop being paranoid…
As the SKY deal is what matters and rangers must have slate wiped clean…
Keep their historical title wins
Rangers are what matters!
Or
We tell sky that subscriptions will be cancelled !
It’s not REALLY about the 4 games a season !
It’s about our money!
i don’t think there is an apatite for any newco to walk into the spl, not from a supporters perspective at any rate.
i also think that any chairman who thinks he can vote them in, then expect fans to continue to attend games is having a laugh and will be in for a shock, this could be the final nail for many.
By my reckoning a yes vote from celtic and aberdeen fans would see mass walkouts, i reckon hibs and hearts fans would also vote with their feet. if you were a dumfermline fan and your chairman voted you out of the league, i am guessing you would never want to go into the ground ever again. what of dundee united fans, how happy would they be?
a yes vote is a vote to kill your own club, i’am all for fair play but clubs are actually being asked to vote for punishments that will allow a newco to walk back into the spl without earning the right. there are already rules in place right now, its simply the case that they dont want to use them because it does not fit the agenda or objective.
Best suggestion I’ve seen so far was from a Dundee Utd fan on RTC – his suggestion was that all fans at SPL games on a particular day should turn their backs on the match for one minute.
We should get everyone doing it at every game from now till the end of the month. Let’s see what the Sky folk make of it.
It does not hinge on the SKY deal.
That’s what the Scottish MSM want us to believe.
That’s what the football authorities want us to believe.
It isn’t true. Another deal can be had.
Boycotts will work if everyone is prepared to do it. Looking at the Aberdeen and Arabs forums they want to boycott too.
We can make them listen. We need to do it before it is too late.
Art of War 22.21
I believe him,and my Wife Seconded it,but did think,if it had been me,she would have ended up in Corton Vale for murder,mine
I see the huns are showing there is no limit to their stupidity.
They will boycott away games if the new proposals are voted in.
Obviously dont realise they need these to go through for a Newco rangers.
Stupid, Stupid huns…
whitecrook tim – HEHEHE!
HH
jock steins celtic on 12 April, 2012 at 22:50 said:
Paul67 said the paying for damage at each others stadium doesn’t happen. A story put about to try to lessen the damage I suppose, if he’s correct.
JSC
had also heard that.
If this mob cant pay a newsagent or a face painter, what chance have we got of getting £300k?
Only option should be money up front.
No dough, no show ( for them ).
I’m quite sure we could sell the 8000 seats with the added bonus of no damages and me and my son not having to look across to them, like to good folks at helms deep watching the orcs advance.
Dawwyll is a total fanjo.
Good night
Just listened to Mark Dingwall.
Stupid Hun.
Honestly, I wrote a few lines to rebuf what he said.
Stupid Hun says it all.
If a picture paints a thousand words, Stupid Hun paints a million.
Fight them Celtic.
CHEATS!!!!!!!!!!
ASonOfDan on 12 April, 2012 at 23:15 said:
———————-
They don’t do travelling away! :-)
HH
Whitecrook Tim @ 22:08, great story, could imagine his coupon! By the way, I stayed in Whitecrook for more than 5 years and never saw one Ranker fan in that time. Indeed when we won the double in 88 I remember the party after the Scottish Cup win and the roof of the Co-op in Fleming Avenue was painted with an Irish tricolour! Great days indeed!
Sorry, meant to add.
If there is a sky deal waiting to be signed, please Peter Lawell, dont sign it. where would that leave their “4 games a season” argument?
Definetely good night this time.
goodnight and god bless
Good evening again!
Now, I fully realise and accept that my next post, in 10 – 15 minutes time, might win me ‘Anorak of the Year’ award . But would any of you like to guess at how many songs we sanfg during last Saturday’s game at Rugby Park (during the actual game…)
Answers coming up soon…!!
Jobo
Re. SKY Boycott
Assuming that there are sufficient numbers of supporters from all clubs willing to boycott SKY, would it be possible for someone to set up an e-petition in which SKY subscribers could simply insert their account numbers ?
After say a week, the e-petition could then be brought to the attention of SKY.
There would no doubt be a few rogue ‘subscribers’ (similar to the Rangers pledges !) but SKY will be able to recognise the genuine account numbers.
TVBB
Night night
bewildered csc
Spiers should have hooked the wee fudd. Daryl shld have hooked the public school hun!!
Fixture list for the rest of the season
Me my mates and kids have tickets for all but United game
What game would a bhoycott make the biggest impact to Celtic board
other SPL clubs SKY and anyone tuning in to the biggest Derby in the world
hmmmmmmmmmmm day before the vote. ??
Oh and i hated missing Killie game back in FERGUS days but I stayed away because it was the right thing to do.
>>>>>>>>
Scottish Cup Celtic V Hearts Sun 15 Apr 12:45
Scottish Premier League Motherwell V Celtic Sun 22 Apr 14:00
Scottish Premier League Celtic V Rangers Sun 29 Apr 12:45 Fixture
Scottish Premier League Celtic V St JohnstoneThu 3 May 19:45
Scottish Premier League Dundee Utd V Celtic Sun 6 May 12:45
Scottish Premier League Celtic V Hearts Sun 13 May 12:30
i say fight dirt with dirt, they want a campaign based on scaremongering i.e. no ranger, no sky, no money etc… to put fear into everyone.
celtic can come out with a very simple statement saying we reject the proposals for an spl return for any newco as it would be a betrayal of competition, fair play and most importantly to supporters of our club and to every other club’s supporters across scotland. then highlight every trophy won by oldco while using ebt/ non payment of tax, cheating for a decade and point to every club that has been cheated, finishing with the 30 slf clubs that will be cheated if newco are allowed direct entry into the spl, is that the way a club should commence?
as soon as the ebt result is out/ if it goes against them we simply turn the tables and every other club in the league will have to make a choice between their own fans and newco and division 3 it will be!!!!!!!!!!
p.s. two contract gives same potential for pointing to the cheats and calling them out
PL ~ politics is dirty so get your gloves off
Ach Well?
thats ma vote posted
Right, as clearly nobody’s that interested tonight I’ll save the result for the morning.
All my hard work as well…
Sleep tight!
Jobo