Positions are already being adopted for the anticipated Scottish Premier League vote on whether or not to vote a Rangers Newco FC into the SPL in the event Rangers go out of business in the coming weeks. Financial self-interest may determine how votes are cast. First to show on leaving the SPL meeting yesterday was Dunfermline chairman, John Yorkston, who shopped short of saying he objected to Rangers Newco being invited into the league, but did say: “As we speak today, if [Rangers] come out of administration I personally feel it’s a clean slate job. If it’s liquidation, it’s a completely different kettle of fish.”
Dunfermline, of course, are hot favourites to be relegated from the SPL this season but if a club above them failed to pay their taxes and went out of business the Fife club would remain in the SPL. Even John Yorkston would find voting Rangers Newco into the league instead of his own team would be “an awkward one”.
Put the moral argument aside. Forget about the consequences of setting an irresponsible precedent, hard cash might be enough to have Dunfermline join Celtic and vote against Rangers Newco. The Dunfermline fans would surely never forgive their board for voting themselves to be relegated?
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Joe Filippis Haircut on 6 March, 2012 at 10:52 said:
I thought that a possibility but I’ve played around with figures and the problem is a handicapped Rangers will attract smaller crowds because wages will attract poorer players (we are talking less than £1k a week wages) . That lengthens the repayment period way beyond what would be politically acceptable. When you then factor in the repay to Ticket us then a business plan that allows Rangers to continue as Rangers simply does not stand up.
Liabilites i dont know. (bloody phones)
Dignity & Doncaster coming on Talk Sport
I can feel a wee pre-season tourney at Celtic Park coming on between Celtic, 2 interesting European teams and another SPL team from near the bottom of the division with gate receipts being split.
fillingpotholescsc
hh
putting all of our posts and speculation together ghentlemen the bottom line is that they cheated and defrauded everyone with malice aforethought/ premeditation or what ever you want to call it. they cheated and defrauded everyone
they hate us more than they love themselves
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 6 March, 2012 at 11:04 said:
I’m Neil Lennon (tamrabam),
I’m fairly sure I saw a Tweet from Joe O Rourke CSA yesterday saying clubs who vote for Newco should face a boycott.
I just do not see such a vote happening and the more that comes out about how Rangers have behaved, the less such a vote is likely.
Just can’t see how this pay deferral will be agreed by all the players making job cuts inevitable
For example Mc Gregor and Davis will find other clubs easily in fact I would say their agents have been already busy finding them another employer. They could move with no transfer fee no signing on fee with their new club paying their existing weekly wage and a bit
What’s not to like about that if you are Mc Gregor or Davis and why stay at a club who lets face it are on death row
JFH:
With you entirely.
Liquidation is significant in that history counts but a long, long crippling administration is far better, that’s why so many in the know at the huns (and the establishment) are working toward the former…
Some halfwits are saying the SPL needs the huns, so no matter what their crimes are they should be let off!
OK how about letting off every criminal who breaks the law as their mammy/daddy/wife/husband/child/pal/pet/bookie/landlord/etc needs them as well?
its simple…wage deferrals cannot be done.
even jim duffy knows this.
D&P were checking with HMRC on the tax implications and the liability and implications of the deferrals the players and pfa (“clueless”) have put forward.
they were told unequivically (again) “PAYE, NI and all other tax obligations must be paid in full by the administrators during their tenure or its back to court to force the removal of D&P” (from another site)
so, mcgregor davis etc if they are on one contract…(haha) on say 22-25k per week
and the club needs to pay 50% of this on tax.
then pay the players only 6k…in total 18k per
player. if they are made redundant they will get
the min. payment that redundancy requires (a paltry amount) and do not pay anywhere near a fifth of the 18k. its a no brainer they cannot afford to pay these players with no income and they are not allowed to run up more debt.
mcgregor
david
mcculloch
goian
nai-class
laughatme
whittaker
bedoya
bocanegra
healy
aluko – if hes getting paid ;-)
ie all first team players…will be made redundant.
not that i like seeing people losing their jobs.
been there myself on a few occasions but…
this manky mob have to pay their dues.
and another thing…it wont be enough to save them.
thats the cherry on the cake.
i hope HMRC wait until april for the FTT result
as i want to destroy their soul at ibrokes 15-0
ps. id rather they limp on with the slow painful death but it aint gonna happen
Doncaster’s admissions on the TV deal are interesting. The extension is basically an agreement in principle at this point, it is NOT a binding contract. He has admitted that the AiP does not include any detail covering Glasgow Derbies and that this detail will be subject to more negotiation in a few months.
So, at this point, there is no need to admit any newcheatco in order to PRESERVE ANYTHING. This arguement therefore falls as an active consideration. Depending on the negotiations and consideration of the ‘cut’ of any deal, it is not beyond the realms of possibility for current income levels to be achievable without no stinkin cheatin football club.
HH
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 6 March, 2012 at 10:58 said:
Indeed.Was wondering if those EBT things were operational in the mid-90’s?
That season when we only lost one league game,under TB’s leadership,still does my loaf in.Maybe not as much as the Seville one,or Fir Park,but it was very difficult to accept at the time.
How apt now was the Banner proclaiming Scotland’s Shame at CP a couple of years ago. and we all know what the authorities thought about that.
Cheats and Scum the lot of them.
Auld Neil Lennon heid,
We are a long way from any vote right now. But the more we can do to persuade other clubs that a last thing the league needs is a bunch of cheats … just in case.
I also wonder what current and potential sponsors think of all this. Are they happy to have their name associated with a club that has cheated on its taxes?
Mort on 6 March, 2012 at 11:04 said:
As far as I know SFA changed rules after that to prevent this happening again.
@Mort RE changing the rules to prevent airdrieonians->airdrie type maneuver do you have a link or ref or some pointer for that?- as I can’t find anything googling it.
Ironically, if Rangers are put into liquidation the missing tax millions will never be recovered, and the likes of you or I will have to pay more tax to make up the deficit.
My favoured solution to the debt situation and sanctions for the breaking of rules would be as follows:
1. All trophies won whilst breaking the rules be removed from Rangers and awarded retrospectively to the runner-up in each competition. (Celtic would now be on the brink of their 17th successive league title. Queen of the South would be awarded the 2008 Scottish Cup.)
2. Any directors who were party to decisions to illegally avoid the payment of taxes to be punished according to UK law, including, if appropriate, personal fines or imprisonment of the individuals concerned. If senior directors can justify their large salaries by claining that they have ultimate responsibility, etc., then they must take that responsibility for corporate decisions and be held accountable for same.
3. A full repayment by Glasgow Rangers PLC (or whatever their full proper registered company name is) of the full amount of due taxes, plus fines and interest, by way of a repayment plan structured over how ever many years they feel that they need in order to continue to operate within their means. This could be £4.9M per year for 10 years or £7M per year for 7 years. But for every year that they take to repay the debt, they should start each SPL season with minus 10 points.
4. Any clubs who missed out on qualification for European football due to Rangers winning a trophy at their expense whilst breaking the rules should receive £100,000 compensation from Rangers for each season of missed European qualification. (e.g. Queen of the South would have won the Scottish Cup in 2008, so they would be entitled to receive £100,000 in compensation from Rangers.)
5. Rangers’ training facility to be renamed Polo Park, after The Mint with a hole!
(n.b. Condition 5 is a joke…)
From stunney on RTC
4 0 Rate This
Duff and Dubblecross have just issued a brief statement:
We have held a number of meetings with the playing staff about possible wage cuts and redundancies. These have failed to produce agreement. So we have decided to alter our proposals and our whole strategy when negotiating with these magnificent servants of the club. What we are now going to offer is a range of wage increases to see if this will break the deadlock. The increases would range from 10 percent for diddies, 15 percent for benchwarmers, to 20 percent for first team regulars. Win bonuses would be doubled. We are hopeful that the players will warm to these proposals. If not, we plan to hold more meetings. Finally, can we just say that Ally McCoist has been first class and really quite fantastic throughout this grotesque drama. Truly, it is a privilege to be administrators of this great club. We hope to have an update later this evening. Or maybe lunchtime tomorrow.
Very funny
Malarkey on 6 March, 2012 at 11:17 said:
Aye. Will see what I can find.
Mort
how do guys such as Mr Yorkston get to be in such positions ?
this is one of the reasons why the game here is cringeworthy at times
maybe a great guy, but comes across as a poor high heejin
Auld Neil Lennon heid @ 11 05.
” a business plan that allows Rangers to continue as Rangers simply doesn’t stand up ”
Absolutely ! It makes no sense at all.
All the players at the table are waiting for Hector to show his hand.
Some may play their hand when it all turns to liquid . Don’t envisage any off the radar wealth boys will fancy it but if the price is right a wee group with enough to finance a wee vanity project starting at the bottom might well see it as something worth trying.
No to Newco !
If the Huns are liquidated and never to return…..what happens to the online cesspits like FF and rancid drinking holes like the Grapes on PRW ?
They might stay open for a year or two, but once reality dawned and there was no ongoing club to support or talk about, they would surely disappear also. Another huge benefit to society if the Huns disappear.
However, if the ‘rich’ players opt to play for nothing until the end of the season (about 10 weeks) that will give room for duff and duffer to limit the axe more. If 5 of them on £25k did this then that saves £500k and duff and duffer only need to find half of what they need to limp further.
If you are an RFC supporter aka Davies, McGregor, McCulloch and Healy, you might do this. 10 weeks won’t kill you financially.
We’ll see today who really doesn’t do walking away and for how long.
HH
Whatever part of my club is dependent on Rangers I am willing to lose – formerly known as Malone19 on 6 March, 2012 at 11:04 said:
”Does anyone know the average size of the Rangers away support”
According to research carried out by JJB Sports it’s XXXXXXXXXXXXL.
paul67
A few points this mornin
1 fergus should unfurl the flag as he deserves to
2 rangers are a disease that needs to be cut out of scottish football
3 strange meeting yesterday by the spl is this a newco move
4 Tom english spot on last night independent inquiry needed
as our governing bodies are not fit for purpose
5 is the sfl going to investigate pre 1998 titles
ernie lynch on 6 March, 2012 at 11:25 said:
Whatever part of my club is dependent on Rangers I am willing to lose – formerly known as Malone19 on 6 March, 2012 at 11:04 said:
”Does anyone know the average size of the Rangers away support”
According to research carried out by JJB Sports it’s XXXXXXXXXXXXL.
PMSL LOL LOL LOL
Hail hail
wow look at our development squad- that’s a decent team:
Celtic Football Club@celticfcReply
Development Squad to play Malmo: Zaluska; Lustig, Cha, Loovens, Izaguirre; Juarez, McGeouch, F. Twardzik, McCourt;Rasmussen, Brozek KO 11.30
BigChips….,
You are forgetting about the sfa
They are also responsible, so I expect they should cover at least half the fines.
If the sfa do not get their act together will they be e pepper from uefa & fifa
next season the best 2 teams in the SPL will be Celtic & Celtic Development Squad.
Ghuys
football is a strange business, you are never sure what is around the corner. Best option is a very quick liquidation with a very messy legal process relating to who owns what at Dig itu, thus ensuring that Dignity has no football team for next season.
This also allows SFA SPL to throw the rule book at them and remove titles / trophies.
The removal of the first team squad is the starting point for this … so needs to happen
Crystalballcfc
BigChipsUK – For every point deducted from Rangers we’ll extend our lead by two on 6 March, 2012 at 11:18 said:
Ironically, if Rangers are put into liquidation the missing tax millions will never be recovered, and the likes of you or I will have to pay more tax to make up the deficit.
It’s only £2 for every man woman and child in the UK. You can have mine. Besides, it’ll scare the living daylights out of other tax dodgers. We could come out ahead in the long run. Let ’em die.
twists n turns
Thanks for the response, that makes sense in that it was not their money, however neither was the PAYE deducted from players salaries. Will HMRC be paid in full or was it the threat of sanctions from the SPL that forced their hand to pay Dunfermline. It doesnt appear that the treatment of creditors is equal
BIGbones8867 on 6 March, 2012 at 11:04 said:
Cheers Bb ,heard of the black walk ,never heard them called that..
Hh
Paul
Is ‘Rangers’ now a franchise?
If the discussions are being had about a Newco, and we know that the current directorate could not be involved and have no notion of who will emerge to be the owners, but that it will be parachuted into the top tier, isn’t that effectively what has been done, the SPL has become a franchisor and ‘Rangers’ the franchise available?
What are the conditions? Ibrox Stadium?
What if Whyte holds onto that and will not release to the favoured Blue Knights but instead to a new party, or at least ensures prolonged deadlock and a court battle over his security. What does the SPL do then? How long do we wait?
This is a shambles. What about fit and proper tests? What about corporate governance guarantees and what about new the new SPL rules to ensure the malaise can never be repeated? There should be no discussions on newco as it is a million miles away from existing in an acceptable form and the game has lots of issues to address before it accepts a newco in the shoes of the perpetrator if all its ills.
Total shambles. The Celtic fans will never accept it, the game will be financially worse off than ever.
Guy’s
I apologise for delay….
Thanks for all the replie’s and, for putting me straight re: The TV deal, from now on, I’ll be more careful which tree I bark up :)
Hail! Hail!
Agree that wee Fergus should unfurl the league flag.It would be a fitting tribute,and it would help put right a wrong.
Also hope that Lenny doesn’t get distracted too much by all the shenanighans going on over at the land of asbestos and tumbleweeds.
That place reminds of the stricken nuclear power plant in Japan so it does.
Some degenerates like Hately and Burley seem intent on provoking our leader.He must remain focused,and he must concentrate fully on these next two games.
Two
a funny story about the blackmen
where i live a main road seperated us from a loyalist,protestant estate.
in 1970 paisley and other unionist politicians came to oversee their “evacuation”.
crowds gathered on our side of the road on which our house sat
I stood with my Da wide eyed
watching all the goins on when a man shouted “dont come back ya black bsds” i asked my Da why he was calling them black bsds
“because they are orangemen son”
white people being called black bsds because they were orangemen
try working that out when you are 12
hen1rik on 6 March, 2012 at 11:00 said:
—
I work in an area where I come into contact with EBTs on a semi-regular basis. What we should all remember is that EBTs are not meant for contractual payments – and if this is the case, my understanding is that it would be correct for Rangers not to disclose the information to the SFA (non-contracted payment, therefore no need to disclose).
BUT, we should not forget that the reason Rangers and HMRC went to court in the first instance was to discuss whether the EBTs were being used for contractual payments. Now, if Rangers lose this case, then the information should have been disclosed to the SFA, as it was indeed a payment for contractual duties, and as such, the SFA must be informed of it.
Reading the contract that was printed in the Sun newspaper leaves my mind in no doubt that the payments were for contractual duties directly related to football matters, and therefore, was inappropriate for an EBT use, and as well as this, it should have been disclosed to the SFA.
Malarkey
Article 14, Prohibition on Transfer of Membership, Page 32
Mort