For any football club to be licenced to play in Uefa competition it has to be up to date with social taxes. The world wondered why in the years prior to their liquidation owing tens of millions to HRMC, Rangers managed to remain up to date for every licence application (made through the SFA).
Football authorities are bound by certain limitations. They can oblige clubs to make them aware of any overdue taxes, but if this information is not forthcoming, they have no powers to demand information from the tax authorise. In short, if you lie, you will get away with it, until and unless you are caught.
Nor can football authorities deal in information of dubious probity. “Some guy on the internet gave me this document” which they should not legally be in possession of, is not the basis to charge a club.
At Craig Whyte’s trial at Glasgow High Court this morning, former director of former Rangers, Donald McIntyre, faced questions from defending counsel and also former director of former Rangers, Donald Findlay.
McIntyre was shown a document dated 2010 from HMRC to Rangers saying tax for PAYE and National Insurance was due on Rangers Discount Options Scheme (DOS), involving players Tore Andre Flo, Craig Moor and Ronald de-Boer was “payable in full”. This tax was never paid and £500k of interest accrued until the club went into liquidation.
McIntyre told the court Rangers had “no choice but to accept liability” as due to the existence of a “side letter”.
Despite this, Rangers signed off their licence application in March 2011, which enabled them to take Scotland’s Champions League qualification spot for season 2011-12.
The irony of this information coming out in a fraud trial will not have escaped you. Some key points:
Information that Rangers were overdue to HMRC prior to their Uefa licence application in 2011 has been confirmed by a competent officer of the company for the first time, in open court.
Rangers DOS scheme for Flo, Moore and Ronald De-Boer was not subject to the SPL’s Lord Nimmo Smith Commission inquiry and has not, thus far, been investigated.
Mr McIntyre is still in the witness box giving evidence.
A note of caution: this is all new information, and anyone who tells you there is an easy way to navigate to the desired outcome is almost certainly overlooking a great deal. It has taken time and patience to get here, both of which are still needed. The banner above is a manifestation of someone else’s neurosis. It’s not the actual truth, so realise this or, as they say, keep taking the pills. What you can be assured of, is that no stone will be left unturned.
Raffle for Ibrox tickets
Our raffle for two tickets for Ibrox on Saturday, courtesy of Celtic sponsor, Intelligent Car Leasing, ends tonight at 23:00. We have had very little time for this one, so get in quick. All monies raised goes straight to Mary’s Meals.
Please enter by making a minimum donation of £5 here, and send me the confirmation email you receive, with the word “Pedro” in the subject line, to celticquicknews@gmail.com . Make sure you enclose contact details.
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Goooood Morning CQN
Connaire12 – thoughts and prayers with you and extended family
Now the trial
Not declaring all detail in the data room document, (hiding known detail) now there’s a problem, as would be covered in a TSA – think that alone is enough for Craig W ?
Hail Hail
We shell not we shell not be removed…
‘678 Assistance for acquisition of shares in public company….
(3)Where—
(a)a person has acquired shares in a company, and
(b)a liability has been incurred (by that or another person) for the purpose of the acquisition,
it is not lawful for that company, or a company that is a subsidiary of that company, to give financial assistance directly or indirectly for the purpose of reducing or discharging the liability if, at the time the assistance is given, the company in which the shares were acquired is a public company.
…….
680 Prohibited financial assistance an offence
(1)If a company contravenes section 678(1) or (3) or section 679(1) or (3) (prohibited financial assistance) an offence is committed by—
(a)the company, and
(b)every officer of the company who is in default.
###
Mmmm.
MARSPAPA on 25TH APRIL 2017 8:43 PM
THETIMREAPER
Sinclair , Griffiths and Roberts will be fair game for the robust challenges .
If it is’nt going their way late on it would’nt surprise me if they try to and put these guys out of the running for a place in the final .
If i was BR ….i would have
“Big Jimmy” on the bench , give him the last 10 mins telling him as he takes the field of play that Halliday stole one of his girlfriends off him … CARNAGE !!
Cheers mate, but let me assure you that IF Halliday or any other guy stole MOST of my girlfriends/wives from me I wouldn’t seek to thump them…………I’d buy them a feckin beer !
HH
RON BACARDI on 26TH APRIL 2017 7:14 AM
‘I doubt that HMRC would give out any information to a third party such as the SFA. Data protection rules.’
###
Unless clubs, as a condition of membership, have been required to give the SFA the right to request such info from HMRC.
On a similar theme I wonder whether whether a freedom of information request to the H&SE would disclose exactly what work is being referred to in the case against Whyte.
Re the FAMOUS Jock Stein T – Shirt from Lisbon…
I feel sorry for the wee Celtic man that wore that T Shirt….he SHOULD have had it “PATENTED” straight after Lisbon……..he would be richer than Dermot Desmond by now !
DOH !
HH
MOONBEAMSWD on 26TH APRIL 2017 7:45 AM
You are correct; however, contrary to what many feel on CQN, I have felt that the PLC Board are keeping their powder dry and waiting for the optimum time to take the SFA/SPFL et al to task over the whole debacle.
If they shoot too soon they damage may not be fatal; but a well timed, well placed shot will see the Dead Club and it’s bastard offspring taken out with the same bullet! IMHO.
KTF
VFR
I hope you are correct but have my doubts.
Very difficult to keep powder dry forever.
Given the info now coming from Stupid FC court cases and hopefully the SUPREME court result going the way of HMRC, how long do you expect the powder to remain dry?
MWD
Moonbeamswd on 26th April 2017 7:11 am
95% incorrect and very much an inaccurate reading of events and facts I am afraid.
As Auldheid has pointed out (and I hadn’t seen his post this morning) Uefa’s article 43(i) (h) provides that the clubs have to provide football authorities with an annual mandate that allows them to make independent enquiry of any third party, including tax authorities, in investigating any matter and to that extend Paul’s article is clearly wrong.
Further, if I recall correctly, when the SFA or SPL set up a commission of any kind there are rules which again allow for independent enquiry and allows for any commission to call for all and any documents and information.
So, I disagree with Paul on this and I know for a fact that Celtic are fully aware about the rules of confidentiality and the circumstances under which those rules can be ridden through in the event of enquiry and so on.
Accordingly, I don’t accept that Paul’s article is anyone’s “spin” but his own as I don’t believe that those within Celtic park would wish to set out a plain black and white statement about SFA powers (they are famous for saying nothing) which can so easily be challenged and questioned — especially on a topic as hot as this.
I also don’t agree with Mags that it takes a conviction (especially as Whyte is the only person in the doc) to secure change, nor do I suggest anywhere that some kind of back door deal will be done by anyone but do stress that I don’t believe that any of this will end with the conclusion of the trial and go on to stress that the SFA, and the clubs including Celtic, have no option but to deal with this. No option at all.
I think one part of Paul’s article was highlighted and the rest was ignored in the main and that then skewes the judgement and colours what he is actually saying.
My own view, not all of which can be expresed openly at this time for reasons I cannot go into, is that it is best to let this entire trial run before reaching any conclusion and you should not rely or depend on the evidence of any one witness especially s there will be more interesting witnesses to come.
Even then, the gtrial is only one part of a far larger set of issues of which the SFA are clearly aware.
The idea that no one should be held to account is ludicrous although quite how they are held to account is another matter and can only be considered when the whole picture is out in the open.
By the way, that part of Paul’s argument about “Some guy on the internet gave me this document” which they should not legally be in possession of, is not the basis to charge a club.” was once relevant but can be ignored in the main because the whole situation moved on from there months ago, has been discussed by Celtic at board level, and will be wholly irrelevant by the end of the year.
There are questions to be asked and answered and they have nothing to do with people who have said anything on the internet or who have released papers to others for reasons which remain questionable.
There is far too much emotion, suspicion and conspiracy theory involved in some analysis both here and elsewhere.
What is called for is the absolutely freezing cold analysis of fact — indisputable and publicly acknowledged fact — which many will not like, may well seek to avoid or ignore, but which are as plain as plain can be.
MWD
All that happened was two independent posts happened at more or less the same time pointing out the power to ask questions of HMRC existed before the idea that the SFA were powerless got legs and became a fact.
How difficult it is to get points across on CQN can in some ways be put down to the format of the blog where my clarification post on page 8 obviously was not seen by BRTH or Ron Bacardi this morning. That’s just down to the blog format. Nothing more nothing less.
What has to emerge from this is SFA reform and the case for such grows stronger every day which I think BRTH pointed out and it is an issue the game as a whole including the media has to address to restore trust in those who govern the game who come from the club’s themselves.
VFR
How Soon Is Now? ( Bet that’s in your record collection, anaw!)
Donald Findlay on his sacking from Ibrox for sectarian singing.
“Looking back I daresay one thing about 1999 that did annoy me was, so many of the people who were critical of me for what I did, did exactly the same thing. It was the level of hypocrisy about the whole thing that staggered me the most.” ~ Donald Findlay on his Rangers exit.
BRT&H/Auldheid
Thanks for the clarification.
Auldheid
The initial question was raised by canamalar on page 8 and you concurred with his opinion/view and it was discussed almost through to page 10. This opinion/view is not aligned with that ass posted in BRT&H’s egg post on page 10.
The format of the blog allows for reading back to get the gist and scanning doesn’t take long. I’m sure given BRT&H’s post he manage to scroll back two pages to get the gist and would have known the opinion/view of Canamalar and yourself prior to posting. BRT&H unlike me, never comes across as shooting from the hip without having look and checked for comment or reacting to one or two spurious posts.
I still feel there is not now as strong a bond with you guys with the direction and expectations of Res12 and/or agreement on how the PLC are/should be dealing with it and/or the hoped for eventual result.
All part of human nature but I still question the resolve with regards expected/hoped for eventual result within the group and what will be a successful outcome/result.
Just my opinion based on you 3 guys postings last night and through into this morning.
MWD
MOONSBEAMSWD on 26th April 2017 8:44 am
My guess is that they will wait the outcome of these proceedings in the High Court and the Supreme Court decision on the appeal against the ruling in favour of HMRC.
BEATBHOY on 26th April 2017 8:47 am
Same answer as to MWD above; and yes: both as the flip side of “William, it was really nothing” and also on “A hatful of hollow”. I’m working from home today so may very well get the LP on the deck after my conference call!
KTF
Getting hot in the kitchen eh?
https://johnjamessite.com/author/sitonfence/
Giving someone the ‘right’ to ask a third party for information does not bind the third party to provide any information.
RON BACARDI on 26TH APRIL 2017 9:32 AM
Giving someone the ‘right’ to ask a third party for information does not bind the third party to provide any information.
##
It does if it’s phrased properly ie a mandate.
Good morning CQN looks like Big Mike will be in court again, sevco and ole Ragers …………….court cases
Paul SmithVerified account @Journo_Paul 11m11 minutes ago
Police raids taking place at Newcastle United and West Ham – understood to be part of a HMRC investigation. #nufc #whufc
George CaulkinVerified account @CaulkinTheTimes 17m17 minutes ago
My understanding is that HM Revenue & Customs are investigating transfer activity at Newcastle United & that Lee Charnley has been arrested.
‘HMRC say they have arrested “several men working within professional football industry for suspected income tax & national insurance fraud.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/newcastle-and-west-ham-raided-by-hmrc-after-transfers-investigation-a7702521.html
CELTICBYNUMBERS
Mailed you,bud.
HH
It will be interesting if the English FA have reason to get involved. If any rules have been broken you can bet there will be proper scrutiny and sanctions. The English MSM will make sure of it.
On reports Newcastle United MD Lee Charnley arrested, HMRC say several men working in professional football arrested for suspected tax fraud
@david_conn
Surely the haven’t arrested old Charles Of Normandy? HMRC busy people.
Gary AndersonVerified account @mraaaanderson 23m23 minutes ago
Suspected football tax fraud raids on huge scale today. 180 HMRC officers in UK/France – West Ham, Newcastle raided.
ernie lynch on 26th April 2017 10:02 am
Gary AndersonVerified account @mraaaanderson 23m23 minutes ago
Suspected football tax fraud raids on huge scale today. 180 HMRC officers in UK/France – West Ham, Newcastle raided.
——————————————————–
I wonder what a Monaco-based Scottish football agent is doing today…
First witness today, former Rangers’ chairman David Murray
#WhyteTrial
Good Morning Bhoys from a bright Central Scotland.The Craig Whyte trial is very interesting and Certainly does not show Sir David Murray in a very good light he certainly shafted Whyte and appears to have got away with it scot free.Whyte himself appears to have then set about shafting The Rangers they are certainly a shower of chancers.However, I believe the outcome of the trial will be pretty low key and the punishment if any will be very light. H.H.
Lovely sunny mid 20s at 11 am -way down south ..
Think I’ll wait till I’ve learned who duped who and who colluded with who before I reach a conclusion ..
Todays 3 choons from 67 ( a good year )
7″ -Four Tops –You Keep Running Away ( Motown )
7″-LeePerry & The Sensations -Whup Whop Man (WIRL )
7″ Prince Buster & The All Stars -Shaking Up Orange Street ( FAB )
BRTH usually read cqn on my tea break, need to keep that yin till dinner time . Kev J a ye canny take Blantir oot the man keep it lit fellow jungle rebel
Moonbeams
Very first sentence of my post last night could not be clearer or more unequivocal, though I had not read Auldheid’s post where he cites 43(1) .
“I disagree with everyone on this but am too tired to explain why.”
Quite clear with no mush.
I am not going to go over old ground about what Celtic did or could have done or if they are accountable for this or that because it is so blatantly obvious that a board is accountable to its shareholders and that any business is reliant on its customers.
As to the resolve to do something or achieve an outcome, with respect what can be achieved and what that outcome should be shifts with each passing day.
Back to Paul’s post which highlights a reliance on material produced by Charlotte Fakes. Once upon a time that material was a concern and its provenance thwarted progress and could not be used by some in certain circumstances.
However, there were other ways of verifying its accuracy if not its provenance, and while it could not be used directly its content was alluded to. That then brought fully reliable and recorded written responses which, together with other unchallengeable correspondence which emanated from Celtic Park, hangs like the sword of Damocles above many a head.
I repeat again, wait till you have heard the evidence: Don’t rush in: don’t presume we know all the facts: don’t necessarily trust all that you have been told before by some spurious outlets because you can’t and most of all don’t accept supposed fact or spin when you know it to be incorrect — and constantly recheck the facts, not what you thought were the facts!
Re agreement between the four of us, we have differing views at times of course with some placing more emphasis or importance on some facets than others and I repeat, at times, I am inclined to disagree with everyone because I seek to remain cold and unemotional about the whole with an eye on what can reasonably be achieved and proven.
The Canman can be very analytical but at the same time, rightly in many ways, gets angry and frustrated at the seeming lack of progress at times, which is understandable.
Auldheid’s attention to detail is legendary but more than the analysis of detailed facts is required as Findlay has shown. Facts and recorded statements lead to questions, the pointing out of anomalies, and at that stage you then persuade some, if anyone needs persuading, that further questions have to be asked, how to go about asking them and to what purpose? Not the big wide wooly purpose of “setting things straight” or “making people accountable” but micro purposes of who will answer what, who will make this enquiry and what are the answers likely to be — you need to look at all that before you even frame the question.
Findlay hasn’t asked a single question so far to which he doesn’t already know the answer and anticipates where the answer will take him next.
Morrissey just doesn’t trust Celtic after the way he was treated at the start and rightly so, but in some respects that lack of trust is, in my opinion, more emotional than analytical because things move on, positions change and further detail becomes known which then changes attitude.
Me? I have some faith but doubt many and that includes some well known commentators who, on occasion, clearly speak the words of someone else’s script and have an agenda which is all their own and so can’t be relied upon. They are not cold enough.
In all of this, it is important to remember that it is clear ALL of Scottish football failed. From Celtic to Montrose, from Fergus to the tea lady at Stranraer, from Regan to the ball boys at Elgin City.
Don’t expect anyone in football, and I mean anyone, to thank you for pointing out that they were asleep at the wheel or worse. Don’t expect a warm welcome and a cup of tea when you are pointing out that you have asked the wrong question of the wrong person, or that a whole load of material that leads to one conclusion has to go in the bin when another piece of material changes the whole complexion of what you thought before.
Don’t expect other clubs to initially welcome an approach from Celtic or anyone else which causes them grief or forces them to devote time and effort to looking at something they have stated in writing they want to go away!
And don’t expect any kind of warm welcome or slap on the back from anyone in football for a group of fans who instruct lawyers, ask questions, are a pain in the arse and who won’t go away – especially if they are like a dug with a bone and have the patience of Job — and I don’t mean Celtic when I say that.
With no disrespect to the others, we have differing degrees of patience and patience is a virtue – especially dogged patience.
People’s attitudes change with time. When a picture becomes clearer, when someone who had misgivings at first or a fear of retribution and consequence no longer has that concern, or can see that somethings gotta give and is inevitable, then their modus operandi changes.
Don’t get me wrong, this is like pulling an elephant along on a dog lead.It ain’t easy and it doesn’t make for a sprightly walk. You can dangle the carrot or use the stick or sometimes both at times.
BUT
As I have said before with this, all good things come to those who wait ………….
7″ Prince Buster & The All Stars -Shaking Up Orange Street ( FAB )
– whole lotta shakin’ goin’ on
I really like the idea that it’s heading for a statement to the effect that –
” We didn’t give them a death certificate because they told us they were alive “.
Murray says supporters owned about 8% of the shares in the club adds “we didn’t pay dividends”
#WhyteTrial
Or Tax
Or the Face Painter
Murray says he had a buyer in 06/07 but at the last minute “I pulled out of the deal” as “not in best interests of the club”
#WhyteTrial
BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAAHA
Aye well, bad news about Dembele. I would be trying to wrap Griff up in cotton wool until the cup final.
If we are 2-0 up we should be sending on young Aitchison or playing Sinclair through the middle.
Newcastle and West Ham eh?
A lot of French players have been bought and sold by both clubs over the years.
HMRC Officers are in France?
Hmm. I feel a list coming on…
“David Murray takes the stand”
Izzat no an oxymoron? :)
The cross examination will be interesting.