Well done to the Daily Record for revealing that SFA referee, Eddie Smith, was the policeman who reported Celtic fans to Uefa for singing offensive songs against Rennes last month. Smith was one of the referees who declined to make his services available as referees went on strike last season while Celtic took-on the SFA amid accusations of lies, bullying, sectarian behaviour and cover-ups among referees at the association. He is no longer on the Grade 1 list.
Following the strike the SFA Head of Referee Administration was removed from his post and referee, Dougie MacDonald, who was accused of lying to Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, resigned, prompting then-Celtic chairman, Dr John Reid, to say the club felt vindicated in raising their concerns.
Vindicated, no doubt, but with more than a few feeling bitter towards the club.
While the Daily Record can reflect on some good work today, bizarrely, the Scotsman newspaper accused Celtic fans of sectarian chanting at the Rennes game, something even police-gossip, Eddie Smith, didn’t accuse them of.
Why stop at accusations of sectarian behaviour? If the Scotsman are going to be ridiculous, why not accused Celtic fans of genocide and treason? Better still, just say lots of them have funny names, go to strange schools but will never ascent to the British throne.
Celtic have 123-years of non-sectarian history, it is downright offensive to suggest otherwise.
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Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:21
To answer your points:
1) Yes the Govt have a moral duty to provide soldiers who are sent into harm’s way with all the kit they need.
2) Yes, rangers and other tax dodgers should pay their dues and hmrc should be utterly ruthless in their pursuit of what’s owed.
Just struggling to see how we get from there to “its ok for Celtic supporters to sing for the IRA and tough luck to anyone who’s offended, its freedom of speech so let me get on with it?”
Ulster-Celt says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:25
your original post stated “folk who plant bombs with the expressed aims to kill civilians” EWO was pointing out that this implication was wrong.and it is, a quick google of any incident will confirm.
*****
I take the point. But if someone plants a bomb in a crowded city shopping centre/pub, I think it’s difficult to then absolve them of responsibility if that bomb blows up and kills someone, regardless of how they attempted to mitigate the risk? For Celtic fans to sing songs that either promote, or could reasonably be construed as promoting the people behind this or splinter groups associated with that group risks our support looking a bit crazy and the fact that people including me are offended by it is hardly an outrageous view?
*****
Fred C. Dobbs says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:27
I’m now with thomthethim & THE EXILED TIM (sadly).
Tell them enough is enough, resign from this League.
So it’s a sadly from the ET :>))
Mr X says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:37
Your right… once they get that wedge under the door they’ll keep chapping away until the door falls off!
oldtim67
Great to see you posting my friend.
I miss you very much. How’s about meeting up before the next home game?
VertWolf says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:39
Yeah I remember reading on the Rennes website about the great Celtic fans the next day. No praise in our own country though and then stitched up by one of our own (allegedly).
Finally caught up with the blog and I cannot believe some of the crap that has been posted today about our own support by Celtic supporters.
A vague charge, which the wording of changes by the minute, has become “IRA chants ringing out around the ground” as heard on TV. Gotta get me one of them Tellies as my one doesn’t have such super sensitive speakers because all I heard was a fantastic European night topped off by a great win.
As for the idea we have brought this on ourselves because we have not dealt with our “problem” that is male bovine excretia of the highest order. When Fergus McCann introduced “Bhoys Against Bigotry” he was ridiculed by all and sundry in the media, that singing of Republican songs etc was ended almost entirely, not that I am saying these songs are bigoted please note, within a very short time frame was conveniently forgotten. The fact that the huns never even admited the existence of any such problem nevermind did anything to fix it was also conveniently forgotten. Then lo and behold the huns are carpeted by UEFA and guess what the reaction of the Laptop Loyal and the great and the good of society was to this “But they are just as bad why have you not done them too”. Well my understanding of the reason why we have never been before UEFA on the same charge is pretty simple …. we do not sing Racist, Sectarian or Bigoted songs. We did sing some songs of a political nature which some people could be offended by, these people being those who have suffered injury or lost family and friends to PIRA attacks not the permaragers who hate everything green from traffic lights to Tricolours, so in that sense we may seem uncouth to outsiders but we are not Bigots. We do have bigots and idiots within our support but they are the exception not the rule can the huns say the same, despite their “small minority who are not real fans” apologists,?
We have enough enemies outside Celtic we do not need to fight with each other, and we certainly do not need to let those with an anti Celtic agenda cause divisions from within.
Here endeth the sermon. Go with God/Allah/Buddha/Yoda (Delete as applicable)
I posted information from the UEFA website at 12:06 today. It included a link to UEFA’s findings against them and an extract from Articles 5 & 6 (with reference to supporter behaviour).
Using the UEFA search-engine, I was able to sift through 312 cases (articles) referencing findings on supporter behaviour – in the main they referred to; racism, some to homophobia and sexism – none directly or indirectly to illicit chanting!
Due to the nature/ source of the complainant, UEFA Articles require them to issue a statement (8th December) – I expect that to be no more than a rebuke – perhaps a warning as to our supporters’ future behaviour. If the findings warrant a suspended sentence/ fine – then our Club will have 3 days to submit a defensive challenge.
All well and good – however the damage to our reputation will not be so easily retrieved.
There has been a fair amount of antagonism on the blog today – argument about; legal rights, freedom of speech, heritage, song compatibility in keeping with the ethos of the Club, etc., etc.
Me – I’ve bought the T-shirt, worn it, binned it – the inappropriate add-ons do a disservice to a cruel and painful time in Irish history when utilised as a chant at a football match.
As I drove about today I listened to talkSPORT – our illicit behaviour was reported every 30 minutes – ghuys on the blog have stated that it was reported on media outlets throughout England – in Italy – in Dubai – I had colleagues in Spain email me tonight because they heard it on their media.
Celtic don’t enjoy financial clout such as; Barca, Madrid, the Milan’s or Man Utd but we have fought long and hard to earn the right to a similar international recognition, as a result of our feats in; Lisbon ’67 and Seville 2003 and our awards from UEFA and FIFA for supporter behaviour.
IMO the UEFA findings on 8th December are more than likely to admonish us – any other precedent would provoke legal discourse throughout member associations.
For the sake of a few add-ons – where will that leave Celtic’s reputation? UEFA will issue their verdict and rest assured – it will not enjoy the wall-to-wall coverage we are currently witnessing.
Our Kudos will take a severe beating – all because a minority persist in ignoring the desires of the majority!
H!H!
VertWolf
Case is now closed . There was no illicit IRA chanting and nothing racist -obviously ,and nothing sectarian .
Now we can go to bed.
The Fu99ie Dew
Ooh aah pay you tax, best thing on the blog for a long time.
I hope the GB take it up, offended, oh aye they would be offended alright……
Comeonthe…,
obviously you’ll find it difficult, the point is kids singing add ons do no one any harm, refusing to pay their dues is causing the death and injury to servicemen and women currently on duty.
Your priority that the singing of these add ons is far more offensive than bringing home solders in body bags leaves a bit of a gap in credibility.
Vert Wolf.
I’m fine one day and yuccy the next,had a bit to much drink on Saturday,so still on the recovery trail.
Did I read that you had a nap again on Saturday,You must be close to the top of the table.
I had a bit of hard luck with my Nap on Saturday,2nd at 14/1.It was my only bet I took it at 20/1,but there were bigger prices out there.
THE EXILED TIM,
(H)oops ye know what a meant :O).
Comeonthehoops99 says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:42
……………………………………….
i’m a republican from North Belfast,my opinions of the war will differ from yours. I haven’t sang these songs at Celtic park for 25 years, when I was a teenager. I understand your thinking and appreciate the arguments.
UC
I did :>)
Vinny
Look after yourself mate. I think of you often.
I think of family members in far places such as Oz and as you do worry incessantly about them.
I also worry about my wee lassie travelling home daily to the West End from Wishie. That’s what old dads do.
Goodnight all except hun gits.
Last post tonight
RESIGN CELTIC.
RESIGN FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB.
mic1888 says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:39
Twinbhoy says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:32
Honestly didn’t hear it that night and I am told that the GB are now using ‘up the Celts’ which is fine in my book.
******************
Correct although some fans from around the ground including a few in section 111 (which seems to be taking the hit) still sing the up the RA version.
I should say that when you hear Moravčík, Moravčík in lieu of we’re magic , we’re magic……… its the Vmhans version :¬)
…….you can put youre money on that and others such songs being offensive to a large part of the Scottish community……
V
HH
Praecepta
The damage is done because Celtic FC never seem to agressively defend themselves against the slurs.
Mind you theres so much anti-celtic nonsense cbeing churned out that it would cost a fortune in lawyers fees to keep ahead of.
Having spent 2 hours reading all today’s posts, something has just struck me……
There is nothing I have to say.
Doesn’t happen very often, but simply cannot form a cogent thought that would be worth posting re the subject matter on hand.
I have come to the conclusion that this story is wearing me down and depressing my very soul.
I consider myself informed now though, so great thanks to all who posted today.
THE EXILED TIM says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:50
***********************
I reached that conclusion at the start of the state sponsored save rangers campaign, its been my wish for over 3 years now, will it ever happen? I hope so.
Vinny
HH
mic1888
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out – can an offendee be anyone who gets to see or hear the game by any means and how long have they got to identify something to be offended by?
VertWolf
El DiegoBhoy.
I’ll be in for the Madrid game,around 1.30pm,I’ll have to check into the Abode then meet up with whoever is drinking in the vicinity of The Merchant City.Keep in touch,I’ll let you know where I’ll be,when I find out.
EDB ta amigo ……. faith of our fathers!
I do miss my two bhoys in Australia, but I’m glad theyre there…… I take it you have family there so you’ll understand the turmoil, its breaking wee Derryghirls heart….. such is life.
Vinny
HH
It’s as old as the devil himself the fear of the hun.
Just ‘cos Spiers and Jabba relay their prejucial implanted
lies in black flied and defiled copy dosn’t
mean it’s true.
It means only that shortbtread manana shall
Try by double effort the exasperated sighs of
Retard Gordhun, the world according to
Billy Bob and thicky Murdo shall insist that
Celtic banish the GB and Lawwell agree such
In fulsome apology to the Hun his remiss in
not fully appreciating the need to bend beyond
reason his tiresome Timmy limbs the work over
He’s gladly endured these past three seasons.
Clown county hunville.
HH
bamboo says:
14 November, 2011 at 23:51
I can handle the local laptop loyal bias dross – what hurts me is that our International reputation took a severe beating today.
The innocent never get the press coverage the alledged guilty enjoy!
This reporting of Celtic by the police match commander reminds me of the joke where an old woman phones the police to complain about a neighbour across the road undressing in view of the old dear.
The police call at her house first to get details.
” Where exactly does you neighbour expose himself to you madam”
” Over there in that bedroom window”
” But that is too high up madam, you cannot possibly see anything from your house”.
“If you climb and top of the wardrobe and then look through this periscope you can.” she says.
The whole thing is a bloody poor joke.
Support
jc2
Expect a tough game against Dyce U13s…
Dyce BC would be one of top 2 clubs in Grampian Area.
I happen to know that particular team as my mates nephew is the Captain.
Unlike most Boy’s Clubs -they bin all their players at the end of every season and they all have to effectively retrial for their new coach (Coaches stay with a specific age group and don’t move up with their kids)
Most of the Aberdeen select players will be at Dyce.
My son’s team are playing them at U10 on Sunday…any result will be a bonus.
Illicit chanting reported in a game against Rennes yet not at a game against our raging neighbours?
Hmm, methinks someone doesn’t like us getting a little european money while their prospects of getting any look increasingly slim.
Squeeze the orange. Pay the tax.
christ almighty still another 5 days till celtic are back in action; going to be a long, bitter week on here.
my final word on this whole UEFA business; if UEFA feel we have a case to answer then by all means those who continually chant things that the club itself has stated wants stopped must stop. simple.
however that doesn’t mean we cant point out the obvious police and government agenda that is at play here. its an ongoing disgrace that songs/chants that may be offensive to some but more importantly are NOT ILLEGAL or SECTARIAN are now resulting in a young boy being locked up for a month for simply saying “Up the Ra”; is that boy really so much a threat to the state that he needs locked up for a month!? its an absolute scandal. perhaps just a taste of what will happen should this bill be passed; and if people think theyll just stop at the ra stuff then you are extremely naive.
i can honestly say that the SNP has forever lost this one potential voter for them; I didnt much like them before but with all this nonsense going on, I’ll forever remember them as the party that tried (and hopefully failed) to brand all us celtic fans as criminals; not to mention tried to paint this as some crusade against “sectarianism” despite very conveniently “losing” the sectarian crime data which is suspected to have shown the true nature of scotland’s ‘sectarian’ problem, i.e the Orange Order and its sympathizers. I’m still amazed that they have not been mentioned once since this whole saga kicked off; why are our political leaders so afraid to upset such a loathesome and truly sectarian organization? why are their marches of hate tacitly accepted yet one silly wee boy is thrown in the jail for a month for simply chanting ‘up the ra’? will the wolfetones or charlie and the bhoys be locked up next time they play the celtic symphony in scotland?
I’m sick of being casually branded a sectarian bigot by commentators who dont even know the meaning of the word sectarian; much less by one in particular who called the racist famine song ‘banter’. In the last year, the celtic manager has been attacked at his work with the assailant getting off more or less scot free, had his very life threatened by terrorists, two irish catholic players have had bullets sent to them as well; what has then been the government and police reaction? to go out of their way to criminalize celtic supporters and particularly those who express irish republican sympathies; Orwellian doesn’t come close to describing it; rather than deal with the actual problem that prompted such acts the government seem to think criminalizing celtic fans will stop such actions. absolutely mental.
I apologize for my rambling clogging up space Paul67, but this whole business has me mad as hell; mad at the idiots who keep chanting the ra stuff despite the clubs warnings, mad at the cowardly media sticking the boot in before the case has even been heard when they spent years making excuses for truly offensive and bigoted behaviour across the city, mad at the SNP who drafted this “evening up the score” bill, mad at the police who seem absolutely demented in their pursuit of the Green Brigade and by extension all celtic supporters.
rant over; think i better lie down after that lol
Stringer Bell
Well said. If you feel that way, don’t do as I do and read Paul McBride’s comments on the BBC site. The journalism in that article takes us from ‘illicit’ via McBride’s ‘it’s all the Green Brigade’s fault’ all the way to ‘sectarian chanting by both sides of the old firm’. Well done McBride. The courtroom may be your place, but there you can have the last word and your argument can be cogent. Of course, as a media blank, you know this, you are complicit.
We’ve been stitched up. Ever since the FARE involvement, thems have been dying to equalise. They will see this as their equaliser. You and I know it was offside, but cornered rats do one thing. And they ain’t finished yet. Football club in administration? Aye, but they other wans ur bad. That’s the level.
Watch out for cornered rats.
VertWolf
dunno mate but its depressing the hell out of me!!
I am a reasonably intelligent guy, who has as much interest and knowledge about politics as the next person. However, when it comes to Celtic, i am a Celtic supporter, full stop. I may have an interest in the Irish situation troubles but, i as i am scottish, not irish, i have an equal amount of interest in the persecution of the Palestinians etc. If i want to support either of these causes, i can do so. I just don’t see why I should do it during a game of football.
My perception, rightly or wrongly, is that many of the people who sing these songs (and, for the record, i dont think they were sung at the Rennes game) do so to piss people off, not because they have a deep affection or link to Ireland. However, even if they did, i would much rather they did this in the comfort of their own home, or at a place with like-minded people, than at a football game.
I heard a GB rep on a recent Celtic Underground podcast and he seemed a decent enough, and intelligent enough guy. However, he clearly doesn’t read blogs such as this because he genuinely believed that there was no strong feeling either way about the fact that some of the GB members (who I think have changed the face of the Celtic support in a good way) sing IRA songs.
I remember well standing in the Jungle (a while back obviously) and turned to hear a boy of about 12 years old singing ‘up the ra’. This was no more than a few weeks after a bombing atrocity where innocent people were murdered. I naively asked him if he knew this and he and his father just looked at me and carried on singing. Rightly or wrongly, i didnt return to Celtic Park for a number of years thereafter. I had no interest then, and still maintain the same position, in being associated with people like that, however small the minority.
Paul McBride was great with the Huns and the ref situation last season. However, i believe he talks tripe at times (he was, until last week a Tory – unforgivable in my book, – and he supports the introduction of a flawed law that isnt needed). For all of his faults, he did ask a pertinent question tonight – “What do you say to a 10-year-old child who asks his father why people are singing about killers at a football game?”. I don’t have an answer to that one, but see no reason why anyone should have to answer such a question in the first place.
For footballing reasons alone, Celtic need to move to another league. However, there is zero chance of this happening whilst this IRA stuff continues. That said, as long as we exercise our right to be as offensive/political as we want, we can sing our songs and admire the European Cup on the mantelpiece whilst Scottish football goes down the toilet with us in the middle of it, and the rest of European football forgets we even exist.
Auld heid
link posted the other day, very fitting.
Constable Savage
praecepta says:
15 November, 2011 at 00:03
*****************
Not read or heard any of that, but CFC should put out a strongly worded statement against the slur towards our club, theres something smelly afoot, and I want our club to stand up for itself, taking it on the chin is not an option.
V
HH
I don’t trust Lawwell to mount any sort of defence.
It will suit his purpose if we’re convicted.
ernie lynch says:
15 November, 2011 at 00:14
I don’t trust Lawwell to mount any sort of defence.
It will suit his purpose if we’re convicted.
really? Lawwell may be many things but I doubt he’d want whatever ‘legacy’ he leaves to include the clubs first and only UEFA charge for sectarian/offensive/illicit/nasty/notverynice/insertmoreaptwordhere chanting and singing.
PS I agree with other posters – i have no idea who to vote for in future elections. The SNP had my vote until they arsed it up – now that they have, and we still cant geta fag paper between Labour and the Tories, and the Liberals maintain their ‘realtionship’ with the Tories, there ain’t really anyone left.
As bad as this country is, the number of immigrants that continue to come must put into perspective how crap it must be elsewhere! At least some of them have the weather!