It was as though large parts of Scotland’s media, and many Rangers fans, had decided enough was enough after Saturday’s game. Sectarian singing was reported and roundly condemned, although, inexplicably, BBC Sportscene flippantly suggested disagreeable refereeing could be a cause. It was, however, Nil By Mouth from the government on tackling this peculiar fabric of society.
A Scottish government spokesman was unable to even acknowledge Saturday’s events, giving the Sunday Herald a completely neutral comment: “We deplore sectarian or bigoted chanting at any grounds or from any fans in Scotland.”
By his own admission, Alex Salmond is busy “arguing” with HMRC and campaigning to secure Rangers’ unique place in the fabric of Scottish society – despite openly being in breach of Fifa rules which could see Celtic kicked out of the Champions League and Scotland unable to compete in the World Cup qualifiers. It would have cost him nothing to fall in line with everyone else and make it clear this behaviour is not what he is fighting for.
Issues like this are why we need a First Minister, Alex. If you have decided to go Nil By Mouth, you’re betraying the very fabric you should be cultivating. No one wants to live in a Scotland that looks like this.
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There seems to be an arguably commendable amount of empathy and support being recorded in the main stream media for Rangers manager Ally McCoist; after all the man is under an enormous amount of pressure. He does not know how secure his job or his club is; for him that must be terrible. I would laud all those proclaiming compassionate affinity with Ally but I can’t, because the very same people who are so concerned about the health and well being of McCoist did not once have the courage or the compassion to codemn those who tried to take the life of the Celtic manager, and others.
There is a big difference between losing your job and losing your life as Ally McCoist so graphically explained to the slavering media when he explained the tragedy of the Ibrox disaster and the media again highlighted how caring and thoughtful Ally is.
Pity they can’t think outside their own box though.
With those who tried to kill Neil Lennon, and others, soon to appear in court, I am still waiting for the vast majority of those who are so publicly supportive of Mr. McCoist to show their impartiality and compassion without prejudice, by condemning the vicious acts of those who made Celtic’s manager, and his family and friends too, wish that the most he (Lennon) had to worry about was losing his job.
For the record… I sincerely hope that Ally does not lose his job, ever.
Well done Lennon and the team yesterday. Another emphatic win in Edinburgh a joy to watch!
Only complaint at the moment, everyone is playing too well, I wanna see what some of the new bhoys can do!
Paul et al
One thing in particular on which I disagree with Salmond. Rangers are not part of the fabric of Scottish society. I prefer to think of them as part of the body of overall Scottish culture.
Unfortunately the part they represent is the malignant tumour. A cancer.
Which does, when left untreated, spread it’s virulent toxins and infect all the healthy and properly functioning components.
The opportunity exists here for radical surgery. Cut it out. Watch it die. Watch the rest of the cultural body thrive healthily once it’s gone.
Although it may well come back, if enough damage is done this time, it will hopefully be much diminished and easily crushed.
And next time. We’ll be waiting and watching.
Cheers
Yogi
Used to be a hun but he’s alright now,
Alfie! Alfie!
Used to be a hun but he’s alright now,
Alfie! Alfie! Conn.
twists n turns says:
20 February, 2012 at 09:55
From previous article.
In my younger days (90’s) when I was a teenager I would regularly go in the home end at various grounds. We were rubbish but it still wasn’t always easy to get a ticket. Our bus allocation went on the points system so occassionally I missed out. Being younger you have less fear you are desperate to be at the game and it’s usually OK in the main stand. I used to get tickets for most games home end if desperate.
I have been in the following grounds home ends.
Livingston: Knew most of their fans and it was OK. A very new club at the time and they were happy for the cash. Couldn’t really get any abuse because most of the Livi fans I knew in there supported another club a few years before.
St Johnstone: Went into the main stand twice. Not pleasant. Wasn’t the worst but they did give some of our players abuse. The old guys with the rugs on the knees were the worst.
Hibernian: I was in the main stand when I was around 18 or 19. Me and my mates were blootered and luckily there was quite a few older Celtic fans in there. The Hibs fans were alright and wished us well and hoped we won the league. We did and won 1-0 on the day. I think Reiper scored. Could be wrong.
Dundee United: Was in the Geroge Fox stand at Tannadice and it was a cup match. We won 3-2 and scored very late on. I think Brattbakk scored the winner. May have even been extra time. Was a bit nervy in there and we left early. Last time I was in a home end until yesterday.
Dundee: One of the better grounds to go to. Their fans were OK with us on the day. I was very young and my old man was steaming. He spent the whole match shouting at Gerry McNee who was commentating on the match very near us. The Dundee fans were fine and had a laugh. It was a family section tho.
Dunfermline: I was just a Bhoy. It was the centenary season. In the shed beside the Celtic fans and my dad asked the steward if we could sneak into the away end. They wouldn’t let us so we stood with the Pars fans and watched us lose when big Packie lost the ball in the sun. Their fans were OK but my old man was pulling them up for their language and everything. We left on good terms and my old man met the guys in the boozer at Paradise at the next game after offering to buy them a pint if they were brave enough to show up. Decent fans in those days.
Falkirk: The famous 5-4 game. One of the best games I have ever been to. 6 of us in the Falkirk end. There were red cards and penalties and a last minute winner from John Collins. We got busted when the Hoops got a goal and half the Falkirk end jumped up. They moved us from the Falkirk end at Brockville out by the main stand and into the Celtic end which was pretty sound. The away end was packed and when Collins scored the winner in the last minute people were on the pitch. What a day that was!
Hearts: Went on my own aged 16 into the centre main stand. It was just when the away end was seated and there were limited tickets. I took my seat and got up to appluad both teams on the park. Applauded Hearts first as Rousset came out and crossed himself. The bile and abuse was astounding. I got busted! They just knew I was a Tim. Some old guy was abusing the life out of me but I refused to budge. A steward came up and said I better leave. I said I’ve done nothing wrong here and said I was here to watch the game in the main stand and the ticket did not say home fans only. The guy in front of me and a few around said we don’t know if he is a Celtic fan but he is just a kid. He has said nothing and that old boy is at it every week. Throw him out! Don’t like the Jambo’s one bit but one of the guys next to me said ‘Kid you have some balls coming in here on your own.’ I just said that I was a football supporter and wanted to watch my team. It was OK after that and we won 2-0 prayed we didn’t score again and was pretty scared walking out but I got away with it. The guys on my bus thought I was nuts!
All in all it hasn’t been all that bad in the home ends and it gives you a real sense of perspective. If you can just sit and watch the match it’s OK. It’s harder if the home team score. That’s when you get busted. The accent can be a dead giveaway too. Most fans know each other. I went in the home ends when the games weren’t on TV and I was Celtic mad and would do anything to be at the match.
Wouldn’t do it now and if Mrs LB wasn’t a Hibee I wouldn’t have done it yesterday. Better watching it on the box.
There are decent football fans in this country but the majority go with the mob. There are a few grounds I wouldn’t do it at. Hearts I would never do again after the first time and their hatred for us is much worse than then. If anyone thinks about it I would reccomend the main stand. Take an old guy or a kid with you. The old guys on our bus used to get main stand tickets for most grounds. OAP and said they were Celtic and they got in fine. Aberdeen even gave them a discount, access to the stadium bar and a tour. They got blootered and loved it and got to meet the board. Thought that was great of Aberdeen.
LB
night night, have a good one bhoys, i work nights and it my kip time, lets see what today brings. excellent points as always Paul.
KLV
Well said Paul 67 like our Young Lions you are on a great run…
You shall know them by their words and deeds in this time. Saying nothing sometimes is as bad as opening your mouth and putting your foot in it..
SP
RE: Reality-style TV shows for der hun …
For the discerning follow follower of the quintessesntially British club, I give you:
ER
Che
Depends on who the player is.
McGrain – Tim
Burley – HUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For example
:-)
update from RTC himself unfortunately he doesn’t have the time and stamina of Paul67 though RTC deserves enormous credit for highlighting the shameless collusion of the scottish media in the guardian at the week end
rangerstaxcase says:
20/02/2012 at 8:39 am
81 2 i
Again apologies for being missing in action throughout all of the excitement of the last few days.
A combination of trying to make up for lost time with my deeply neglected family and sifting through the avalanche of new information that is coming in. When it was a trickle of data from known sources, this project was much easier. Sifting gold and diamonds from the silt is quite time consuming.
I do expect to have a new blog post up by Wednesday. Thanks for your continued interest and support for this project.
Phil Taylors darting philosophy keeps popping up in my head.
” When youve got your opponent going dont give him a chance to recover -keep your foot on his throat!”
Although facing stiff competition from the likes of Keevins and Traynor, there is a hack writing for the Scotsman named Allan Patullo who outdoes them all in the anti- Celtic sentiment oozing from his articles.
I stopped buying the Record some time ago andhave now vowed never to buy another Scotsman while he writes for them. Is the Herald worth trying?
Paul, maybe this “incoherent fool” did say something about the singing but you were maybe looking at the league table laughing so much you just didn’t hear him?!
SffS
Paul 67
Excellent article again.
This is exactly the agenda that should be being addressed this week.
What it is of that that we need to save Scottish football?
They returned to type when asked to support their “institution”.
They, their fans who behave as they did in large numbers, at their own ground, have no place in any civilised situation.
Government and Ragers management should condemn unequivocally.
Can the Administration team not issue a condemnation?
Why would any society wish to save an “institution” that stands for that reprehensible behaviour?
Over to you Mr. Salmond and D & P.
EC67
TinyTim says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:27
aye and they could still win the league
neither is any way likely tho
hootsman regurgitated propaganda.
So who do we believe ?
RTC guy or Andrew Smith.
Hasn’t Dawyll already commented that he has saw side letters ?
So who do we believe ?
Andrew Smith or Dawyll ?
I am with Mort in that the show stays on the road until the administrators are paid.
Let’s be clear here there is a heck of a good chance that hun FC could go belly up before the big tax case announcement.
Rangers could still win their tax case, according to a key witness. Picture: Getty
By ANDREW SMITH
A KEY witness at Rangers’ tax tribunal over the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) has told Scotland on Sunday he believes the club can still win the case that could otherwise land them a bill for more than £50 million from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs.
The source, who asked not to be named with a judgment still possibly two weeks away, called into question owner Craig Whyte’s implication of the so-called “big tax case” in the Ibrox club’s plunge into administration last week. HMRC insisted that the reason was a further £9m in unpaid tax accrued since Whyte took over the club last May.
“Until a fortnight ago, it was widely reported that Rangers’ chances of winning the tribunal were 50-50, now it is said they will lose,” the source said. “Yet nothing can have changed in that intervening period, with the tribunal ending last month [18 January]. It has been said Whyte must have got wind of the outcome ahead of the club being placed in administration, but he can’t have done so. The opinion of the judges must remain strictly confidential until they make public their decision. If Rangers won the EBT case, their future should have been secure. Now it won’t be and, in that scenario, serious questions must be asked of Whyte.”
The source says there are “myths” about how EBTs were administered when Sir David Murray owned Rangers, and that HMRC made “no headway” in convincing the three judges who will decide if these were operated in a manner that changed them from a legal tax avoidance loophole to a tax evasion scheme.
EBTs are believed to have been run by around 5,000 businesses in the UK, including football clubs south of the Border. They became illegal in December 2010 but, until then, firms had been able to exploit the tax laws to provide sums to employees without PAYE or National Insurance as long as these were in the form of discretionary, repayable loans. At the tax tribunal, HMRC argued Rangers’ use of them for nine years was, in fact, a way to help mostly foreign players evade tax on salaries and bonuses. The source, who is not connected to Rangers but had clients who benefited from EBTs, claims that this entirely misrepresents the scheme in operation at Ibrox. “It was totally and absolutely correctly administered, and the club met all their legal responsibilities and complied with all tax laws,” said the source. “They took advice from top-notch lawyers and a whole battalion of the best accountants on a global level.
“I have read a lot that isn’t true about how Rangers were supposed to have misused them. They weren’t written into the players’ contracts of employment. They were totally separate. Money in any EBTs was not a salary sacrifice. The EBTs were independently administered offshore in Guernsey. I have heard it said that players had letters stating they did not have to pay these loans back. The tax commission hammered away at that but made no headway because these letters categorically do not exist.”
The Rangers Tax Case blog, which has covered the situation exhaustively for almost two years, claimed the “smoking gun” for HMRC was a number of letters indemnifying players from any future tax liabilities on money placed in their EBTs.
The source insisted: “There is nothing unusual in that as it is always employees who set the schedule basis for tax and there was no great gain for the players.”
But the source also admitted: “The very slight weakness is that the administrators in Guernsey weren’t always as diligent in their book-keeping as they should have been. Players buggered off back to Argentina, Italy and Australia and they didn’t keep track of these movements, as was incumbent on them. This was tightened up, though, over time.”
HH
Partizan says:
20 February, 2012 at 09:59
Thanks. Spelling was never my forte but I think “without the talent” has to be said too.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:29
wonder if this un named source is fron an un named universe?
TinyTim says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:27
Rangers could still win the tax case.
======
So that would just leave them with annual £10 shortfall Whyte admitted, £9million so far owed on VAT and PAYE, £20-24m of season tickets already sold to Ticketus but no money into Rangers accounts, asbestos problem to sort out, all the above leading them to have smaller support, a fall of 10,000 per week equals about £5m a year etc,etc. I’m beginning to hope they win the BTC :-)))))
Livibhoy
again, very interesting read.
I went to a Hertz semi final at Hampden and went into their end. Wasn’t too bad until we scored, and then again at the end of the game. I clearly remember one of them said to me on the way out “that ref is like the Blessed John Ogilvie – he should be f*****n hung”. I was ignoring them for the most part, but my uncle kept shouting as loud as he could “9 IN A ROW – 9 IN A ROW” Police kept a tight rein on us until we managed to get back amongst the goodfellas.
Lived to tell the tale though. My uncle (God rest him) put me in a few situations like that. He would back down to no man/men, regardless of numbers.
Paul,
long term daily reader ( since Fergus unfurled the flag ) but very rarely post.
I completely agree with you regarding Salmond’s lack of comment. After his involvement of last week, his current silence on the weekends bigotry is deafening.
I had hoped he would have the courage to make a stand against that lot rather than the usual “bad as each other” soundbite. But obviously deluding myself.
I fear for an independent but poisonous Scotland led by this little nyaff of a man.
Keep up the good work highlighting the duplicity of these politicos.
Lawrenzo
Thanks Paul.
Saved me writing to Salmond on same theme.
Have however already written to him on the matter of’ wee words in people’s ears’.
Personally I am astounded that last week, he and other politicians did not adopt the customary ‘no comment whilst the matter is still the subject of legal proceedings stance’. My own view of Salmond is that he is shooting himself in the foot and that the trigger seems jammed.
He would have done well to remember that old Northern Ireland saying. ‘ If uou have anything to day, for God’s sake say nothing’.
Tiny Tim
I saw that piece in the Hootsmon.
While interesting from a number of angles, the opinions expressed by the writer’s ‘source’ fly in the face of those held by the cognoscenti over on RTC. Not least RTC himself.
That said and in any case: It seems increasingly likely that a Tribunal finding in favour of der Hun may arrive too late to save them (which would be hilarious), in addition to which the presence of this story is likely to hold out false hope for TFOD (which would be hilarious, too) …
FF
Borrowed from Rangerstaxcase…
rangerstaxcase says:
20/02/2012 at 1:03 am
Island Bhoy says:
20/02/2012 at 12:50 am
_________________________________
The Scotland on Sunday story by Tom English is PR-driven garbage.
Let us not worry about these details just now. I am not going to be bated into releasing information prior to the FTT result this close to the end of this process.
I missed out a lot in comment above and as Greenjedi says HMRC would appeal as well :-))
Paul
Your very last sentence is EXACTLY how I feel. I do not live in Scotland but can see it now for what it really is sadly. I’m even beginning to feel somewhat embarrassed by being a Scot, never used to be, always so proud of my roots. But, not any more.
I do not or cannot understand though just how much pressure salmond can apply to HMRC as he does not have tax raising powers and how much sway does he have with the British tax authority, not much methinks.
If hun have their debt written off then I will not ever, set foot in Scotland ever again, never.It does make sense if HMRC want their money (our money back) then if they have to take it in installments then that is the way to go. Don’t get me wrong though. I’d love for hun to be a non – existent club but not at the expense of writing off their debt. We want our money back, so it’s better to keep them to do that in my opinion.
Brilliant performance on Saturday and 7 points clear ( BBC Stats) .
Hail Hail
KINGLuBO
ps to use KOJO speak , if I were King I’d pay off all hun debt and then close them down completely.
Talking about Nil by Mouth, Duffield has been conspicuous by his silence and his absence, after recent events! Is there any truth in the rumour that he has become lost in the Amazon jungle after his recent visit to Brazil!?
Hail! Hail! PMTYH
Livibhoy
Thoroughly enjoyed your wander down memory lane
Morning bhoys, came into work still buzzing from the events of the last 48 hours but was brought down to earth with a bang when I realised that the IT team have no put up a series of new firewalls in the office blocking namely BBC web pages and youtube! A lads weekend in Rothesay meant missing the game yesterday and after the state I was in on Saturday I went to bed before Sportscene in hope that I’d catch the game on BBC Sport this morning and also benefit from missing Rob McClean and Pat Nevin spout their usual garbage. This firewall malarkey has really been a spanner in the works so if anyone could provide a link to the highlights that’s NOT on youtube or BBC I’d be eternally grateful.
While on the subject of favours, funnily enough I’m coming from Dunfermline on Weds for the game and as I’m new to the area I have no idea of buses running. Do any of you know of a Dunfermline CSC and whether or not they run buses from here or elsewhere in the Fife/Dunfermline area? Cheers!
What is the Stars says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:11
Vast and utter difference between someone who supported Rangers playing for Celtic, an inclusive team and support – regardless of race or creed, and an alleged Irish Celtic supporter playing for Linfield which was and remains an entirley bigoted institution. Nothing to do with breaking down barriers – that is arse of the 1st order. I would group Fenlon along with that tiny percentage of Irish Catholics who joined the RUC. I have my own opinions as do you but i have as much time for Fenlon as i do for Judas -both sold their souls for Huns silver. As i have said would any of you play for Rangers? would Tommy Burns have played for Rangers or their even more bigoted brothers Linfield? All you need to know about Fenlon’s character will be contained in your answer.
twists n turns says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:34
Your uncle sounds like my old man. Couldn’t keep his mouth shut. Probably thought that having the Bhoy with him would be fine. We did go to Tannadice once and got sneaked into the Celtic end so we tried it again and the polis said no. It was the old Sandeman Street terracing and I was maybe 10 or 11. Before the game kicked off there was a big space around us. It was then I noticed my scarf which was tied round my waist was hanging down. Old man got a wee bit abuse but it was OK. Guys wished us well on our way out. We did get the odd abusive comment but that goes with the territory. Think we drew that day which was a relief.
LB
Jaymac
Search for kirkintilloch on one of the last pages from the last article
HH
that snide wee sh**e alan pattullo reckons it is celtic that should be more dignified today.
no mention of the songsheet from ibrox on saturday!
has anyone ever experienced ‘other’ fans in our end ?
I think there is a remarkable likeness between FPLG and wee fat alex salmond.
I wonder.
mmmmmm
jock steins celtic says:
20 February, 2012 at 10:43
I have taken a few young kids who were Livi fans in our end. The guys were great with them and said shout on your team wee man. Made me quite proud to have them readily excepted and let them sit with their colours on and watch the game.
There was also a Killie fan who sat in front of us a few times when we played them. An old guy with a tammy on smoking a pipe! He didn’t get any abuse at all and a few people stopped to chat with him at half time. That was a few years ago right enough. Wouldn’t get away with the pipe these days.
I don’t have a problem with anyone doing it. I have done it myself and I would have a chat with them. If however they were abusive or over the top I would want them punted. As long as people sit ad watch the match I have no problem. Our fans do it abroad quite a lot and I have been lucky I haven’t had to do it abroad but I would have no problem with foreign fans in our end either as long as they behaved.
LB
awe_no :
When the words “missing plugin” came up I muttered your very screen name under my breath.
Hahaha, what a disaster. Cheers though!
Awe Naw
There are really very few people who could be Andrew Smith’s ‘Key Witness’. Who ever it is, they are out to get Whyte. You’re looking Mintless, Johnston and less likely Bain. Bain has gone to ground and is unlikely to surface anytime soon. Perhaps the lawyer who ran the Trust, but that is improbable. My money is on Murray. It’s the usual bluster.
Was interested to note the resurfacing of the story on McGregor and Co signing on with Group Ltd instead RFC plc.
Over and above the obvious issue with 3rd party ownership, there are two problems with this arrangement, were it proven to be true:
1) It’s a classic ‘alienation of assets’. The Admin boys will be running to the Court in jig time if this is true;
2) It is indicative of the end game of the business plan being Insolvency. This mirrors other such indications. If it all stands up, someone is going down.
Saying that, until there is some verifiable evidence, it’s all just rumour, of which there is quite enough already.
There are so many new facets to this situation yet to be seen that it will take an extended period of time to get to the bottom of it. If, for example, the Police investigation (not rumour) into the circumstances of the takeover results in charges being brought, the assets involved in the transaction will be sequestrated pending the outcome of the case, and that means padlocks on gates for yonks. There can be no solution to the financial chaos until such matters are concluded.
You’re looking at corporate cryostorage.
TBB