My attention was drawn to the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations (SCVO) blog yesterday, also covered by Joe O’Rourke on the Association site. SCVO Director of Pubic Affairs, John Downie, writes about the “proposed bill on sectarianism” but seems to get muddled in his role as a director of SCVO and using SCVO resources to speak as a Rangers fan; in this instance blaming Catholic schools for sectarianism. How ironic.
Downie writes:
“We’ve previously seen Rangers fans outraged by Celtic goalie Artur Boric crossing himself during games but less bothered – obviously – by about our own players (like Vladimir Weiss last season) doing the same thing.”
“Our own players”! Is SCVO some closed shop where they talk about Artur Boruc as a “Celtic goalie” and Vladimi Weiss as one of our “own”?
So far, so disturbing, but Downie then uses the article to ride to the rescue with:
“The solution:
Personally, as someone who grew up in the East End of Glasgow and lives in the west of Scotland, I agree with some of what Conservative MSP John Lamont says. In my opinion one key causes of sectarianism is Scotland continuing to have separate denominational and non-denominational schools.”
So, if only we didn’t have Catholic schools, players like Artur Boruc and “our” Vladimir Weiss would be able to cross themselves free of harassment. Bizarrely, Downie’s article is subtitled “treating the symptoms not the causes”. I don’t think he was trying to suggest it’s best to treat the symptoms.
The cause of intolerance is not differences in ethnic, religious or sexuality, it is ignorant bigots. It is ludicrous to suggest tackling intolerance by assimilating people into some mono-culture. It’s downright dangerous to blame a minority for intolerance of, and by, them, a sentiment that will only fan the flames of hatred.
The European Examiner reports that various politicians have called for Mr Downie’s removal but SCVO chief exec, Martin Sime, apparently sees nothing wrong in SCVO running a blog discussing one of “our” Rangers players and the “Celtic goalie”, while simultaneously blaming educationally successful faith schools for sectarianism. SCVO has offered a metaphorical No Surrender to resignation calls.
A brief comment for those who don’t live in Scotland…. Attitudes like this once prevailed but are harder to find these days. We are a modern, progressive, society, for the most part.
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I hear the effins are trying to bring back….wait for it….
Ted “Tin Man” McMinn…
ShakinginmabootsCFC
IbleaBhoy says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:43
I am entirely opposed to any faith being peddled in state funded schools as is the case in many countries France and the USA being 2 prominent examples. If people want a religous education for their children they should pay for it in full no tax hideyholes or charity loopholes. Would be interesting to see how many religous minded parents would pay the price.
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Schools teach children about the world and what goes on in the world. Billions of people in the world believe in God/gods and follow their particular religion. Why should schools ignore religion?
Celtic_First says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:45
Ha! Should have put quotes round the whole thing, it’s all their work.
Have a good evening bhoys,
Hail hail
LiviBhoy says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:57
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:45
…. People in this country see a Celtic top and think fenian. It’s that simple.
——————————–
or maybe they see a Celtic supporter, but if they are bigotted they see a possible catholic, and maybe to the etremist a fenian.
that said, when I see a Rangers top I think ‘Hun’
Sadiesbhoy- should we get kids drunk before teaching them about alcohol?
Ah the old Religious debate
Here is a qoute from James Joyce that i posted last night after I was accused (Incorrectly I may add) of being anti prod,(dearie me)
Here is James Joyce views on the Catholic/Protestant nonsense (his friend “Cranly” has heard that he (Joyce )has lost his Catholic Faith.
Then, said Cranly, you do not intend to become a protestant?
— I said that I had lost the faith, Stephen answered, but not that I had lost self-respect. What kind of liberation would that be to forsake an absurdity which is logical and coherent and to embrace one which is illogical and incoherent?
Philvis
Blame them for not teaching me properly?
TootingTim
Sorry. I realised that. I didn’t mean to imply that it was your work rather than the Guardian’s.
From the Guardian football blog:
” … here’s Ally McCoist ahead of tomorrow’s stramash at Dunfermline. He’s explaining why, with Rangers laughably blunt up front, skint, and facing a trophyless season, and with their grand old Ibrox stadium less than half full, this is nothing like the early 1980s, no, nothing whatsoever at all, nope:
“My players are intelligent people, they read newspapers and they watch television. In terms of sheltering them, it’s extremely difficult. I’m not sure you would want to shelter them away from everything because we have to face facts.
“Everybody knows the league is now of absolute paramount importance to us and you have to take the comments with a pinch of salt and you have to take the good with the bad.
“I don’t think it’s a bad thing that we all know the situation we are in.”
Philvus. Charitable status brings substantial tax benefits amongst other things such as business rates relief and is de facto a tax avoidance device. I object to my taxes paying for a belief system being taught to children which has no proven basis in fact, is based on fear, and panders to the most primitive emotions of the human condition.
Ron Bacardi says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:04
I usually check for a raging coupon before I decide Rangers fan or Hun. At no time in my life can I remember such hostility from all over the country about Celtic than I have seen over the last two seasons.
This season will be painful for a lot of people in many ways.
LB
Adam on bail
What school did he go to?
oglach says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:57
That would be an ecumenical matter!
HH
/Bish\o/p B
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 15:12
Hamiltontim. No. Helping people is always cool.
I think walfrid would have helped poor of any persuasion, but not sure that is relevant.
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You’re prevaricating, of course Brother Walfrid would have helped others, that’s not the point.
You seem to want to eradicate from our history that he was a Catholic Brother and founded Celtic for the benefit of feeding the needy of 3 catholic parishes.
Isn’t it funny when you are on holiday (abroad/home) and you see a Rangers top it’s “hun (ignore).”
If on the other hand you see a Celtic top it’s “hehe how ya doin/where u from?”
1st impressions of your holiday resort are important, especially if there is a Celtic game on that week.
Meanwhile back in Starbucks, Glasgow, an Italian family of 4 all with 2 or 3 bags of Celtic merchandise, tops etc… Big smile and welcome to Glasgow, from me!
How many Italians do you thing travel to Glasgow and purchase (2 for wan) Rangers tack?
Not many methinks!
HH
AoW
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:05
Sadiesbhoy- should we get kids drunk before teaching them about alcohol?
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Parents line up every January to enrol their children in Catholic schools knowing that their children will be taught about the Catholic Faith. They are very supportive in the school doing so.
I know that all parents want their children to be taught about Health Education and the dangers of alcoholism. I have never heard of any parent yet who wants their child’s teacher to get them drunk. Quite frankly it’s illegal.
What a stupid example.
Denia
oh that Adam!
I thought you were referring tae Eve’s fella given the current theme!
Simplest answer to the morons who want to blame “Catholic Schools” for sectarianism in Scotland is that there are close to 200 Catholic schools in Birmingham in England, is that a hotbed of sectarianism? No.
In the USA the Catholic chrch is the largest provider of private school education – Catholic/Protestant sectarianism? nada.
Shutting down Catholic schools is about nothing other than keeping Catholicism out of sight, and out of mind – statistics show Catholics more likely to be attacked – are Catholic Schools responsible for that?
BTW mum – stop using Philvis’s password to bang on about muslims! Bless her, she’s nearly 80 you know…. and if she doesn’t read the Daily Mail, she acts like she does…
whats worse an auld relegion debate on CQN or a dozen 12 year old fighting whilst meant to be having a movies a pizza da.
DVd flung out after the 1oth fight set up FIFA 12 Tournay results in so far Liverpool 2 chelsea 0 Boca Juniors 1 RFC 2 Sunderland 2 Santos O
these games might not do anything for their healthy lifestyle but their knowledge of players at these teams is amazing more results to follow for those not interested in current debate.
HH
Religion?
Philosophical question posed by Frankie Boyle:
When the Pope dies should it be considered as him being fired or promoted?
Hamiltontim, I don’t want to airbrush anything from our history. I simply feel that all association with religion hurts the club I support.
Hi Bhoys,is thr anyone i can meet before game to pass on raffle prize for quiz night?
Hail Hail
Tooting Tim- Temp Engerland boss Stuart Pearce has been to some of our games lately and apart from Hart,they are struggling for GKs.If he gets called up Pardew & co might move the goalposts.
STEPHEN HUNT has revealed that he came close to joining Celtic on loan before the close of the transfer window last month.
Neil Lennon spotted that Hunt had lost his place in the Wolves side and tried to bring the Waterford man to Parkhead, but the plan fell through.
“Celtic made an inquiry, from what I know. There was a possibility there but I’m not sure how far it went with either club, Celtic were trying to do a deal but it just didn’t happen,” Hunt told the Herald.
“I didn’t let it bother me, I have been in that position in transfer windows before where it did get to me, so last month I let it wash over me, it wasn’t a case of me looking to move.
“I believe in the manager here at Wolves and he still believes in me, even though I’m not in his team at the moment. It may take two or three games to get myself back in.
“It’s disappointing to be out of the team, I can’t say I am happy to be on the bench but I can understand why the manager took the decision he made.
“I have to prove to him that I’m good enough to be in the team.”
Sadiesbhoy.
Apologies for the confusion- my point was that you can learn about something (indeed, maybe learn more) while not under its influence.
IbleaBhoy – Philvus. Charitable status brings substantial tax benefits amongst other things such as business rates relief and is de facto a tax avoidance device.
Charitable status isn’t a tax avoidance device.
If charities in a cynical attempt to avoid tax, they will be taken to task by the Charity Commission. There are very stringent laws and regulations that charities have to adhere to if they wish to enjoy charitable status.
Education has been recognised by law and society to be a legitimate charitable aim for a long, long time. You may disagree with this, but that don’t make it so. People who work for charities are still taxed the same as everyone else. (thumbsup)
After reading many contributions here today,especially those of a milder approach I have to say to those atheists and those whom would divorce faith from education that your heads button up the back with the cheapest and flimsiest of connections.
What would Scotland be like today had there never been the need to introduce Catholic schools and of other faiths?
I find the whole stance utterly diminishing of good men and women,Atheism in all its degrees deserves to be mocked for its sheer ignorance and stupidity.
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:17
Hamiltontim, I don’t want to airbrush anything from our history. I simply feel that all association with religion hurts the club I support.
That statement says more about this country than Celtic’s history. It doesn’t hurt us worldwide. We get RC supporters from every corner of the globe because as a club and support we don’t lie down. We were started by a Catholic brother to help all needy kids in Glasgow’s East End and we should all be mighty proud of that. Our club is not RC but a lot of our fans are and for that reason some people in Scotland hate us. Most of Europe and the rest of the world have no issue tho. It should NEVER be airbrushed out hidden or denied!
LB
Quizzler – I simply feel that all association with religion hurts the club I support.
Presuming you mean Celtic, I don’t think Brother Walfrid would have agreed. (thumbsup)
Quizzes 16.17
BOLLOCKS
AC Milan 2 Man City 0 oh the excitement pitch invasion xbox switched off 11 man pile on ensues riot police called in (mrs L) pizza served while xbox reset
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:17
Hamiltontim, I don’t want to airbrush anything from our history. I simply feel that all association with religion hurts the club I support.
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“For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don’t understand, no explanation is possible”.
Quizzler says:
10 February, 2012 at 16:21
Sadiesbhoy.
Apologies for the confusion- my point was that you can learn about something (indeed, maybe learn more) while not under its influence.
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I don’t know how familiar you are with modern Catholic schools in Scotland but children are taught about Judaism, Islam and Christianity. You seem to be overlooking that there is a demand for Cathiolic Education from many parents. All parents in Scotland have a right to enrol their child in a non-denominational school. However, many choose not to do so because they value the fact that a Catholic school teaches their child about the catholic Faith, other religions and Christian values like caring, sharing and respect and tolerance for the views of others.
Sorry I have to go out for a few hours just now.
There is no, I repeat NO such thing as secular education in Scotland at present. Being a lapsed Catholic I agreed to send my son to a “secular” school- allowing him to decide his religion when able. Within his school he attends daily assemblies where local C of S ministers preach, he attends Carol and Thanksgiving services at various local C of S churches, local C of S ministers participate in school activities and Waldo Smith even presents the end of year prizes. Dont let them kid you- they want to integrate us by turning us into them, not by accepting the difference. What has this attempted brainwashing done to my boy- he’s a bigger Celtic fanatic than me, happy to stick it to them at every opportunity
Livibhoy. I’ve never lived in Scotland, so will take your word.
But whenever somebody learns about my Celtic affiliation, and come out with a line about it being the catholic club, I take pride in explaining that we are actually inclusive, and how/why that sets us apart.
Can you explain why the independent school sector in Scotland have tooth and claw to retain their charitable status if it so unimportant.
I was not suggesting at all that the employees of charities enjoy any extra benefits from their employment.
Quizzler
People often think of Celtic as “the Catholics” and Rangers as “The Protestants”.
I don’t like this either as it may turn away some great people from a great club.
“It’s all about that religious stuff for you fans isn’t it?” is something I hear a lot.
Celebrate where we have come from by all means but inclusiveness to all should shine out above all else.