I know what you were thinking; Zenden, like Ljungberg, but older. We need experience in the squad but with Commons, Ledley, Samaras and McCourt all able to stake a claim for the left midfield position this is the last place we need to bring in a 35-year-old. Best of luck to the player but I’m pleased he has left Glasgow.
Today’s Sun report that a senior policeman witnessed a crime being committed but instead of doing what he is paid to do, he reported the incident to Uefa. You have to wonder about the veracity of the crime. The officer will do well to explain his actions if they amount to anything more than a few lines in a newspaper.
We are all partisan in this city but Justice is blind to such emotions and taxpayers (that’s you and me) do not sponsor lazy gossips.
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Westim. says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:04
Look, if you have an opinion, spit it out in full and back it up ffs. There’s nobody on here that will have a go at you for having an opinion if you can back it up, but all this wind and p!$h of half finished sentences lends you little credit.
I’m on the fence-sitting place re the songs being sung as I understand why they’re sung, but do not particularly like them, much in the same way, though, that I do not particularly like Westlife or Coldplay hence the fence-sitting.
Just don’t give us your ‘..ah you know what…flounce’
You’re obviously an articulate guy – use it and tell us why you feel this way and each about which songs.
The Exiled Tim
Thanks for your comments
Its good to hear people remember exactly their core values.
by the way you pool is sensational
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:06
I have been in Celtic park in recent times when the whole ground engaged in sectarian singing with no action
———-
Ooh, it’s Lionel Blair time…
Bloke……
Tonally perfect and sufficiently shrill!
;)
bankie
Praise indeed :-)
sftb
I think Strathclydes finest have made a major ballsup with this, or have they ?
I suppose it depends on what side of the road you are sitting.
What do the club want ? there is the $64000 question, I believe they want out, but I don’t think they want out just anywhere, a problem for the old ego me thinks.
Events will start to snowball very soon, the media are getting pumped up for the fall out, hence the onslaught against the club will be relentless, they can’t blame themselfs for the crap the find themslefs in, so Timmy will do, but I think events will overwhelm them so much, there could well be problems, hence the new legislation, jeez the way things work one thing leads to another, the mind boggles.
Not being a cynical type of person, if I didn’t know any better, I might just come up with a crazy notion that the government are preparing themselfs for Internmemt 2012.
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:04
You sure were not watching. X Factor.
after watching the new john lewis ad i vowed to never buy my overpriced bed linen for my second home from there again, however if they change to this i may change my mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b254gjohciI&feature=player_embedded
jumping & rocking
Thanks, much apreciated.
Disappointed by some of the reactions to the vague story circulating about the Polis and Uefa.
The sounds of agendas being pushed is all around.
Those that disagree with republican singing are saying ” I telt ye we’d get in trouble, ya wee neds, ye!”
Those that like wall to wall rebs are stating “it’s all the fault of masons, the SNP, Peter Lawwell and any other handy bogyman”
BUT…..
We have been here before.
Uefa have received previous complaints about singing at Celtic. We have been “dobbed in” many times by our enemies, including a Sun newspaperman (name of Carson, I recall who felt we needed to go down with the hun ship).
But nothing happened!
And, so far, nothing has changed from that position. We remain untouched by a charge of sectarian or offensive chanting. Even if, by some unlikely route, we are found guilty by Uefa, we will be just at the stage der hun were at 5 or so years ago when their first charge was levelled and accepted by Uefa. We will get a small fine. We will be told what was offensive and punishable, an advance on the situation which exists in Scotland just now where everyone hints to everyone else that “you know fine well what we’re talking about”, and we can plan and advise based on that.
Now, I am not naive. If an official police complaint was forwarded to Uefa, it will have greater face validity and will be taken more seriously than previous complaints. But it will still be scrutinised and judged and we will still be invited to mount a defence to the charge. The trouble is that it will be the Club’s Board which will dictate the reply to Uefa, not our fans’ associations. Will the Board be minded to query any nuances in interpretation of offensive/sectarian or will they be happy to accept a third party admonition so that they can turn to fans and say “I telt ye that IRA stuff would get us in trouble with uefa” (an assertion they tried to get out a few years back but Uefa refused to play ball then)?
For me, this is the worst possible situation to bring about any attitude change to reduced IRA chanting on match days. The scenario the fans will see is:-
1) Police pass the buck to Uefa to make a decision
2) Uefa are too frightened to turn down a police complaint and issue a small fine and hope the issue goes away before Catalans and Basques have to be sanctioned
3) Celtic Board decides that the fine from Uefa means Republican singing has to stop- (result!)- and they encourage police crackdowns and further division within the support.
4) Celtic fans, annoyed by a blatant stitch up, dig in their heels and determine to test the legal position further through increased republican singing.
Longer term, co-operative attitude change involves people compromising their agendas, building up trust with those they wish to influence, and educating each other on respect for our background, which will involve refusing to use Republican expression as a wind-up tool towards the opposition fans.
Are the Board and the fans willing to build those bridges? Conditions are not ripe at present. The approaching thunder of legislation, aggressive policing, and possible collusion at Board level does not fill me with optimism.
How about, for once, taking the longer road of education and dialogue rather than reaching for the bogeyman of Uefa’s going to give you a short, sharp shock?
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:06
“I have been in Celtic park in recent times when the whole ground engaged in sectarian singing …”
I know that the word “recent” is not meant to be too precise but I think you must be remembering
the 1998 Cup final with Hearts and Ragers.
Off to.bed now who ♣ celtic
googybhoy ♥ Celtic says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:14
They were before the Piers Morgan thing. I refuse to allow his visage into my house (utter scumbag of the very worst type – the very worst type). But after a couple of posts on here, had to see what Gascoigne was like these days. Quite sad to be honest.
My mum was a recovering (she/’they’ never really recover/ed, although she always maintained she had beat her demons) alcoholic, hospitalised and all, god rest her soul, and never fell into such a state of disrepair. I’m not sure I should post this, but even after she died after a 7 year fight with cancer, she looked better than ‘Gazza’.
Truly a shame to see a relatively young man laid so low, as, despite our obvious differences in lifestyle, morality, ethics and indeed iq, Gazza was in fact a very, very gifted, yet very much ultimately flawed football player.
I looked at Gazza and finally understood why life expectancy can be so low amongst certain demographics (although I really should have already – 3 out of 4 of my kids grandparents never saw their 57th birthday).
Gazza: The Sad Genius?
iki says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:26
:))))
night all tims
Good Evening,
I came to this site tonight with the intention of writing two specific posts. The first was to be an unusual post for me because unlike my usual witterings it was to be directed at one of my fellow posters. Someone who I have never met, never exchanged a word with and in truth about whom I know next to nothing.
However, the need for that post has evaporated thankfully and so I can chill a little and get off my high horse,fill, empty and refill my glass and let the raging horses, which were going to drive my words, off the leish!
The Poster concerned? James Forrest.
This morning our James posted a memo of despair and woe, threatening to leave girlfriend, loved ones and all behind because he was sick of the country of his birth. I was going to say ” James– let it not be so” and I would have given him cause to stay with a long reasoned argument about why his instinctive view of a Saturday morning should be ignored. Tonight, however, I find that James has reflected himself, and reached the overwhelmingly correct conclusion to his inner turmoil of this morning. His response takes the form of a simple question. Leave? Why should I?
So instead of directing a message to James let me throw out a wider net and canvass. I mean to take no high ground or claim a form of righteousness that is peculiar to me and me alone. Instead I offer a little History– from this country and others and at the end I will leave my summation in the words of another whose laces I am not fit to touch let alone use them to tighten his boots.
After the battle of Culloden, when Prince William defeated the ragged army of Bonny Prince Charlie, William returned to London and was rewarded with an increase stipend and has the honour of having a rose named after him– The Sweet William!
Alas, by the time he returned to London his orders for Scotland were already being carried out. Tartan was banished, speaking in the Scottish dialect was a crime and the bagpipes were proscribed. The Highland clearances were well underway and those who broke the law were either put to death or transported to the colonies. Few left these shores by choice, as young James was contemplating this morning,– no most were forced out. To this day it is said that the finest Kings English to be found anywhere on the planet is spoken in and around Inverness. Reason why for yourself— You spoke the Kings English or you died or were transported.
In Scotland the Sweet William was known as The Stinking Willie!
The battle of Culloden took place on 16th April 1746
Some 13 years later, young Master Burns was born at Alloway in Ayrshire, and by July 1786– just 40 years after Culloden with the same laws still in force and being enforced in parts— he Published his “Kilmarnock” Edition of “Poems-Chiefly in a Scottish Dialect”. The publishing of this work was not without risk in this climate. But Burns was an out and out rebel, and he wanted the “Scots” language to get an airing. He collected traditional tunes, wrote in a guid scots tongue and essentially ploughed his own furrow regardless of the law or the opinion of his betters. He risked some heavy repercussion! However his words and his spirit of Scotland caught on.
When he died in Dumfries in 1796 over 10,000 people attended his funeral! He has justifiable claims to be the world’s first superstar— but let’s leave that most entertaining of debates for another day.
So what has all this to do with James Forrest’s post of this morning and the news that a policeman has somehow dicovered pen and paper, and developed the ability to send a message of dubious quality to a foreign body? What relevence has all of this to do with the mindless and increasingly illogical statements of Christie Graham?
Well it is this.
Outwith the Central belt of Scotland people tend to have a far wider and far more knowledgeable grasp of both history and justice. Some of us within central Scotland have had an education– and it is a fearful weapon, an education, when it is turned against you and on you.
Graham’s motives, words, reasoning and bias will serve her no good as a politician in the long run because in this age of modern and transparent democracy she and her party have no choice but to face the music of the public on a regular basis. And WE form a large proportion of that public. Yes that is US!
Ok who are US?
Well “US” are a few generations of educated bods. We can speak. We can argue. We can talk and persuade and point out injustice and bias wherever it lurks without fear or favour and in the sure knowledge that elsewhere in this country there are plenty of others who do not share the espoused view of Il Duce Graham.
However, what is more, whether it is football,transport,trade, the law or whatever– we are inextricably linked to Europe, where the idiocy of the Scottish inbred and the narrowness of those who know no history nor have learned any lesson from history are likely to be given short shrift.
Burns used words to completely and utterly destoy the “legal” notion that you could not say this or that for fear of causing a nationalist stirring in this wee country. Does Christine Graham really think that she can pass a law that will stand scrutiny and the test of the educated in so far as to make certain things that she simply does not like “offensive” and therefore illegal? What nonesense.
What a stupid woman. Stupid because anyone can see that this is bad law and bad law always– I repeat ALWAYS — fails. Whatsmore she is equally stupid if she is simply not getting her message across and she means something else entirely. That is the sign of a stupid politician.
As for the policeman– I wonder if he has stopped to consider the repercussions of such a complaint? I hope he has because it represents an amazing opportunity for debate. Think of the RED faces at Holyrood if before the multigazzilion pound parliament gets to pass any law, Eufa throw out such a complaint about “Offensive” singing as utter nonsense and total baloney? I welcome his complaint. If anyone on here finds the Rangers Tax Case blog interesting then I can assure you The Offensive behaviour blog will knock it for six!!!
And believe me faced with the correct argument Eufa will consign this complaint to La Poubelle.
Now let me be perfectly clear. I am of Irish Republican stock, where two generations ago Official IRA pensions were paid and spent, where republican songs were sung and passed on,where the notion of Irish nationhood and history was encouraged, welcomed and spoken of freely. Yet I do not believe that Irish republican songs should be part of the Celtic Football Club repertoire– most definitely not. Why? Well it is not because such songs are illegal or even wrong. It is because I actually believe that such songs have no place at Celtic park because they are so totally against the spirit of what Walfrid sought to achieve. I am aware that certain “Irish” songs were sung in the very early days. Yet Walfrid quite clearly wanted to create a unity between the people of the East End of Glasgow– hence the name Celtic to represent both the Scottish and Irish element.
That was before Ireland gained freedom and a national Government and independent nationality. It was also before Glasgow saw another wave of immigration, and then yet another and the advent of air travel and mass worldwide VOLUNTARY movement. Today, Celtic Football Club has players, management and supporters who originate from every corner of the world. We do not sing about Korean Independence, Israeli or Palestinian Independence, Welsh Independence, Honduran Independence or whatever. Celtic has so many fans of Italian, Polish, Pakistan,Indian and god knows wherever else fans who are as native to Glasgow as the Irish are in this day and age. It is Celtic Football Club that unites us not the history of the individual nations that the supporters forebears came from.
Those of us who have deep seated Irish routes have no right to corner the song list to the exclusion of other followers of Celtic who don’t relate to 1916 or any other important Irish date. Celtic is an inclusive club, not an exclusive one. Yes I know that we have a traditional affiliation with Ireland, but that has to be represented and maintained with respect for past generations and not in defiance of future ones of any nationality.
That is just my personal view. I hate the idea of Celtic and Irsihness being forced down the throats of others who do not want that or more importantly don’t feel part of that– and there are perfectly good people who don’t and aren’t– and it allows our detractors to spin and tarnish the club with total nonsense– which we then have to defend and deflect.
I will argue that stance with anyone, without fear of recrimmination,without hesitation or caution, because it is part of the Celtic ethos that goes through me like Blackpool on a stick of rock. I take great succour in the fact that Walfrid and Burns have their final resting place within a mile of one another. They were of the same cloth in my opinion. You can change things with words and actions, with no need of guns and violence but by moving people’s minds and hearts. Not so much ” We shall not be moved” as ” We shall all be moved” in heart and spirit. And unlike the Celtic support of 100 plus years ago we have that education, we have access to the media through sites like this, we have a voice and a presence and we will use it!
So young Forrest, you stand your ground and let your eloquence be heard and felt. Speak your words, argue your corner, write your protest and persuade others that your cause is just.
Someone once said: ” To refuse to fight is to lose. To fight is to win!”
The same man wrote the words linked below. Let the politicos listen to those words and heed them well. They will be spoken long after you have all taken your place in the dirt along with Walfrid and and Rabbie Burns. These words are a warning, a promise and at the end an invitation. Oh that they were my words– but they are not. They are the words of one who knew the arguments and knew that the verdict was inevitable even if he was not there to see and hear it.
They are the past, the present and the future and transcend national boundaries.
Everyone should simply stop and listen– even if you have heard this many times before—- because these words are for this argument and for this time and for all that is decent and just.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGYjDXJTa48
Ie better ♥ Celtic
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:11
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:06
I have been in Celtic park in recent times when the whole ground engaged in sectarian singing with no action
———-
Ooh, it’s Lionel Blair time…
——
I see you have yet to name that tune. Back to mordor, a skelped erse annaw wi ye.
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:01
I would hope you’re wrong with your assertion of it being fair game for the board. Really It’s an attack on the Celtic family, a family which all board members belong.
All recent evidence though suggest any decence of the club would be minimal and more than likely take place “behind the scenes”.
As many posters on here have said there are plenty of questions to be asked should Uefa find no case to answer.
Here’s hoping for a strong, proud and spirited response when the time is right.
Life enhancing
Árd Macha
Br\o/gan R\o/gan Trevin\o/ and H\o/gan says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:29
Absotively, posilutely, love your work.
If UEFA do censure the club for offensive singing at the Rennes match, then do we all agree these offensive songs (whatever they are) must no longer be sung at matches as it damages our club?
MikeyBhoy
I would plead the Hugh Keevins defence of “hypothetical question”.
For what reason were the songs found wanting? Was that reasoning sound? Should we appeal.
But in the end, I am for fighting smart, therefore, even if, by some twisted logic, they define pro-IRA chanting as illegal, then I would want the club to suffer no further sanction for that but I would want to see an unjust, unsound ruling overturned, by legal effort. And I’d like my club to support us in that.
A virtue held through fear of sanction is no virtue.
Deciding to tone down and reduce Irish Republican representation at Celtic Park voluntarily is a better way to go.
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:31
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:11
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:06
I have been in Celtic park in recent times when the whole ground engaged in sectarian singing with no action
———-
Ooh, it’s Lionel Blair time…
——
I see you have yet to name that tune. Back to mordor, a skelped erse annaw wi ye.
—————————————————————————————————–
My apologies, I didn’t realise you wished me to name that tune. Cheer up Walter Smith, you will know the rest. Man, woman and child. But then that’s just the craic , or is it ?
MikeyBhoy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:36
Indeed we should all agree.
Much in the same way that if the SNP find that all rebellious songs are offensive, then Scotland fans must refrain from singing the rebellious Flower of Scotland. This is in fact exactly what the SNP/polis are asking. The only differences are: the name of a country and the date.
It should also be noted that the only way that Uefa could find such songs offensive would be on political grounds. This would be a somewhat amusing stance that would lend itself to all manner of scrutiny, such as and in actual fact, specifically: National Anthems and indeed must now be banned when used within a footballing context.
*and indeed borders must now be banned…etc
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:44
Ah, you appear to be of limited intellect, apologies, mea culpa.
Where, in your opinion, is the sectarian element in such a song?
earlier this evening someone, i cant recall who, wrote a post that referenced the french resistance of WW2.
It brought to mind this beautiful song by laughing Lenny Cohen.
http://youtu.be/x_223jKXKgQ
Damn was going for four in a row, but I had to top up my wine glass.
Liquidated, one might say.
Br\o/gan R\o/gan Trevin\o/ and H\o/gan says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:29
Once again can I just say that is why.I ♥ this site.
lennon’s passion says:
12 November, 2011 at 21:09
“Just read on follow follow,the rangers supporters trust are having a function inside Ibrox this month.Guest speaker is someone from the Dundee supporters trust about how administration effects the average fan.”
One advantage of a Reformation Ragers might be that their UEFA “criminal” record would be jettisoned.
We don’t need a campaign to think about or be in love with our people.
It’s a given.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al9-3mW6zw8&feature=related
Árd Macha
From the UEFA doc from our home game v Rennes:
25/08/11 UEL FC Sion (A) W 3-0 Mulgrew 78
Three goals in a minute – what a guy.
BRTH
i wa hoping you would post tonight.
As always positive and uplifting.
dirtymac says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:48
Knowyourenemy says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:44
Ah, you appear to be of limited intellect, apologies, mea culpa.
Where, in your opinion, is the sectarian element in such a song?
——————————————————————————–
As I am sure you know, when someone starts trading insults you ( and they ) know the argument is already lost.
My opinion does not count. The offending phrase is considered sectarian according to the law of this country. Whether you or I agree with that or not is irrelevant.
It will be the same with UEFA. Whether Fenian is or is not sectarian, Whether Fenial referred to those of a political persuasion or to catholics , was of no consequence. It will be the same with the IRA stuff.
Árd Macha says:
12 November, 2011 at 23:57
We don’t need a campaign to think about or be in love with our people.
For you and all the bhoys type ♥ and .
All the symbols together without the “and”
Brogan etc
Superb writing as ever.
Your stuff on rtc every bit as good, I wish I had an enth of your ability when putting your thoughts on to a keyboard, young James would be of the same ilk when it comes to writing, me I just try and say in a line what others take a hundred lines, just my way, if the truth be told as a one fingered typer it takes too long.
But I have to disagree with you on what Brother Walfrid would say about the singing of songs of freedom, how can you say that he would have disapproved, don’t buy it, freedom is freedom, was that not what he wanted.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon says:
13 November, 2011 at 00:00
We scored 6 against Sion in less **cool as you like, wearing shades smiley**