Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson’s comments to yesterdays’ Herald are worthy of attention. During the summer, when United received a £1m bid from Rangers for David Goodwillie and Blackburn Rovers were hovering, Bank of Scotland, took an active part in the deliberations. Thompson told the Herald, “The bank wanted me to take £1.2m for him, but I said no to that. I had to stand up against the bank.”
Thompson more than doubled the money on offer for Goodwillie, allowing him to shave over £2m off their bank debt, but this exchange took place only a few months after the same bank told former Rangers chairman, Alastair Johnston, to accept the bid for the club from Motherwell born thousandaire Craig Whyte or the bank would demand same-day repayment of Rangers borrowings.
Bank of Scotland, part of Lloyds Banking Group (LBG), are significantly exposed to Scottish football and required a taxpayer bail-out two years ago, so although their interference in the running of clubs could seem overbearing, we shouldn’t be surprised at it. It’s business, and if you are employed at LBG with a responsibility to your taxpayer-shareholder, it’s necessary business.
Fortunately, Celtic are free from such interference, as are Rangers, thanks to their aforementioned benefactor, but if a liquidation event at a large club threatened income streams to the league I would be amazed if the Bank didn’t use the ‘Vote Newo FC into the SPL or repay your borrowings immediately’ line.
Stephen Thompson, who sits on the SPL board, might not have a choice on whether or not to vote a Newco FC into the SPL ahead of 30 Scottish Football League clubs, but he and his fellow board members will be able to set the tariff on any exceptional league entry to what would become a financially privileged football franchise.
12 seasons of cumulative benefit from financial mis-dealings should result in 12 seasons of penury at whatever points rate the league calculate benefit was accrued. For one scenario I have in mind, around 15 points per season sounds fair, with an expunging from the records of any trophies ‘won’ by Financial Doping.
This is measured, deliverable, is in the power of the SPL board to impose, and sets a minimum moral hazard to inhibit future mis-deeds.
You can order a hard copy of CQN Magazine, issue 5, with credit/debit card or Paypal and buy direct from the UK for only £3.50 + £1.50 postage and packing. Shipping costs £2 to ROI, £3 to Europe and £4 to elsewhere. Click on the link below to order.
Click here to view the new issue of CQN Magazine online for free. You can support the online edition by making a discretionary donation here.
[calameo code=000390171224afb293e4a lang=en page=50 hidelinks=1 width=100% height=500]
955 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- ...
- 10
- 11
- 12
- 13
- 14
- 15
- 16
- ...
- 26
- »
Serge
We will just have to wait until the insolvency party , got to go speak soon.
HH
Ohits
Ok mate have a safe journey north on Saturday. HH
Vmhan Supporting Lenny! says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:26
You have mail…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Bankiebhoy
I was at the docs on Tuesday. Blood pressure? 195/130. He was extremely concerned for my health and asked what was stressing me out. If I had told him one of the main reasons was the cheating filth that infest Scotland with impunity, he would have had me sectioned!
twisty, ye should have gone to specsav……. erm DBBIA :¬)
Vinny
HH
Have any of you bhoys come across this guy before?
http://www.glasgowcowboy.com/index.aspx
twists
when I wake up in hospital after bad seizures I often believe I have been sectioned.
Usually takes a day to wear off .Scary. redrum.
WDH – When are you planning your gastronomic assault on Barcelona???? I tried to get into Los Caracoles when i was over but it was fully booked up and we only had 1 night left in our schedule, will try it next time i get there.
Terry – I’ll see him on Saturday at the club and i’ve been keeping him abreast of your good work on clyde.
Serge – Keep yer powder dry for the huns breasts north party, i might come home for that one:)
slainte
tony
I’m luvin’ the clyde phone in these days…..the pundits are really struggling to divert the listeners away from the main subject these days………squeeky cheeks all round, and they’re running out of excuse, trying to protect ‘their own’………LOL when one of the pundits inadvertently referred to “ranker’s CRISIS”, an got into all sorts of breathing problems trying to suck the word back in …….!!!
TICK TOCK (It’s like counting down the days to the end of the transfer window, or counting the number of days to the start of the Olympics……I’m going, by the way…..!!!!!)
Paul67,
On the question of any Newco, I agree with many of the concerns you are raising but fundamentally you have already conceded too much ground.
I would echo the earlier posts of Weeminger and Subterranean.
Weeminger
Subterranean
If Oldco ceases to exist, so do Rangers. Past history, the team we beat 7-1 at Hampden, the “old firm” – gone. Confined to the history books alongside Third Lanark.
The trick for anyone operating a new start up club will be to subconsciously have the footballing public look at Oldco and Newco and see Rangers. I expect that’s what the media will also seek to portray. I’m not playing.
Entertaining the possibility of point deductions on any Newco for the sins of the Oldco means they have won. They have sucked you into associating the Oldco with the Newco and acknowledging they are the same.
The only outcome that would be acceptable for Newco would be to begin life in the 3rd Division. Anything else is already a fudge.
Twisty
I’m the same, the days I don’t get involved I’m all placid and calm – the fragrant missus is the first to remark on it.
But we have a responsibility to to talk about what they are upto, to publicise it and to do something about it.
Fortunately this fine forum and the many fine Celtic Supporting contributors ensure that our message will get out above the spin.
HH
Mike in Toronto – Sorry to hear that mate; i was keeping my eye out for you but figured you must have got caught up in the Christmas madness.
Bring the boys up anytime and we’ll take good care of you.
slainte
tony
up_over_goal says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:23
I was not proposing a solution, I was saying that reparation had to be the part of any solution.
Now if we take what would be the correct one to maintain the games integrity – newco start in Div 3, I would still want admission that RangersoldCo were in the wrong and I would be willing to accept that staring in Div 3 with no points on the board and denial of UEFA money for 3 years was part of reparation.
However I would also want the consequences of their wrong doing admitted, that being that titles and cups won were won unfairly first by EBTs and then by refusing to make provision for the back tax they might face as a result and for those titles and trophies to be struck from the books. That is my preferred solution.
However if commercial considerations are to hold say as Paul suggests they might be under pressure, they absolutely must have a similar impact as the reparations I would accept under the Div 3 start up scenario.
How that would be done would be what needs to be worked, out but a bar from UEFA competition for 3 seasons and surrender of their EBT earned titles would have to be part of that solution. to make the point a price was being paid i.e reparation.
Tony
trying to get there at the end of the month.
Caracoles is fine but you never missed much.
Torontony
Mind there is an open invite for Carnegie Club Skibo to squeeze in…..Be there! hahahaha.
Serge, HH
Paul67
got home and CQN 5 magazine was waiting for me. The Rangers match supplement not in the electronic version was worth waiting for, particularly the Hack Watch article by James Forrest.
It would be good if we could set up a monthly direct debit payment, which I am sure would save bureaucracy at your end.
HH
Celtfish
Auldheid
The problem I see with a repayment plan will be the huns lack of cash.
For a start say they are hit with a 25 mill assesment, bearing in mind CW said anything north of 10 he would consider admin etc, they have no chance, no way can he even give them a couple of mill up front so in effect the plan is a non starter.
But for arguments sake there is a mysterious backer who is willing to weigh in with say 10 mill up front, that leaves 15 over 3 years, now CW has said there is a 10 mill hole in the accounts, he can’t raise another 5, the figures don’t stack up.
They will also have a depleted playing squad, maybe not for the rest of this season, but for sure next and the next, the hun support will not turn out in sufficent numbers if they are not winning, hence their SB sales will plummet, see where we are going.
They are cheats and fraudsters, always have been always will be, they will not pay their dues.
That leaves a newhunco to be accomodated.
That leaves Celtic with the power imo, and the overhaul of the refereeing system should be the priority, totally transparrent and made to justify their every decision, and make the match reports public, failure to do this will ammount to more of the same.
packiesboner says:
12 January, 2012 at 19:31
Many of you will have seen Brogan Rogan Trevino and Hogan’s posts over the last couple of days highlighting this wee girl’s illness. Thought I’d re-post the link having read a bit more through Kerrydale Street. Maybe those who haven’t had a look might like to. Why do I always feel shame when I see the likes of this?
http://www.justgiving.com/vanessa-appeal
Monaghan1900
thanks for the link, Ive been away and missed it so just paid a vist.
Was worth reposting mate
Cheers.
PB
………………………………………………………………..
Pakiesboner
Thanks
I seen the original post earlier today at work and said I will donate later but forgot until you resent the message. Please help this cause Bhoys, its what we do as Celtic supporter to help. We can save her life. After payment, take the option to post on Facebook / Twitter etc.
JD
sally spanish steps signings
vmhan
seems like yesterday ye were on here and we were all concerned for yer joab prospects. Noo – ah see yer oan aboot how ye kin dae a Minty and fiddle the taxman :-) It’s a funny auld gemme eh. (If ye get caught ye’ll need to re-emerge as Vmhan newco and start with minus 10 posts :-)
Hope you are well V and you and yours are all prospering.
WDH
Similarly, hope all is well with you. Drop me a wee mail anytime bud.
Bankiebhoy
I do try….but it does not take much to set me off I’m ashamed to say. No use pretending, I will never change!
Been a good day in Timland certainly helps the head. Away to watch The Devils Double.
Thanks for all the good wishes. Hope you all have a good, safe day at the game on sat. HH
The Legend Johnny Doyle says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:51
Glad you saw it but dont thank me thank
Monaghan1900
I got it from him….
KTF
PB
Twisty….
“Don’t go changin’…….”
;)
hail hail all
I ordered the CQN version 5 a few weeks ago but still nothin in the mail,anyone have any ideas about the time frame for mailing to the US>?
cheers
ohits says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:17
Serge
Just read back , hope everything is OK nae pint on Saturday Oh well got to get the priorities right.
Vmhan
Will be up on Saturday , are you going?
*********************************
Aye mate driving up Sat morning, I’ll be kicking my heals about CP around 12/1pm.
Vinny
SpongeBhoy SquarePants says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:30
http://www.justgiving.com/vanessa-appeal
Vanessa’s appeal has 1861 donations at this point. I’m sure someone wants to get the prestigious 1888.
HH
===========
Wow – donation 1888 was for a massive £300. Well done Pietrina Cardello, whoever you are.
THE EXILED TIM says:
12 January, 2012 at 17:46
Auldheid
With all due respect mi amigo, you and I both know that the hun will not pay their dues.
They set up the EBT scheme in the first place to cheat the tax man, they have appealed the assesment again not to pay their dues, they will go bust in order not to pay their dues.
Your idea is good though, but huns being huns it’s a non starter.
————————————
I’m not so sure TET. If HMRC were to come up with a payment plan that was relevant to the circumstances, linked to Ranger’s ability to pay in as short a timeas possible and the SFA built in license safeguards of verifiable proof of payment with HMRC are you suggesting CW would knock that back in favour of insolvency?
How fond he is of holding on to his knees might be a consideration he has to take into account. I think it would be an offer he could not refuse.
(Not sure how that long muliple post happened folks, sorry.)
packiesboner says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:56
It just goes to show that re-posting stuff like that helps. We are all walks of life throughout the world and CQN is 24-7. God Bless you all.
JD
If they have to be allowed back in, as suspect they will, a precondition should be that they need to change the colour of their strip permanently. All colours and designs available to them except those on the Union flag. ( Same applies to away strips.)
If they ARE allowed in for whatever reason I say do so with the maximum humiliation to all Orcs.
The Legend Johnny Doyle says:
12 January, 2012 at 21:14
Well said that man!!!!! :))
HH
PB
Auld Neil Lennon heid says:
12 January, 2012 at 21:13
How does Whyte make money out of that?
Chums, just a personal opinion, but be careful, pause a while, before sharing too much ‘connectivity’ via other forums.
Sadly, it is often better safe than sorry.
Trust your instincts.
HH
Serge,
Hope everything goes well for your good lhady.
Great gesture too,thinking of others when you have your own troubles.Top mhan.
FOREVERANDEVER!!!
Vmhan Supporting Lenny! says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:26
CQN’ers thanks for the reply’s on the tax returns, even the funny yins :¬)
In reality I employ an accountant to do my online tax return where I include some items (like institute memberships)
————-
god loves a trier but, are you using the same creative accountancy as Dunky ?
Neither the Green Brigade or the Blackpool Shammy are tax deductable as Institutes.
Twist n Turns yes and its not much better now, letters going out next week but in my area……..
re the newco being ……. erm……. selected for membership of the SPL, its a wee bit like an employee candidate being “selected” over other more fitting candidates, that doesn’t happen in Scotland I mean in this day and age.
Anyway I’m a dyed in the wool, Celtic through and through type of person and have been my whole life, like a lot on here I’ll be buried with a Celtic flag wrapped around me, but I will not suffer a newco going straight into the SPL, if this happens I will never again watch a football game live in Scotland, I will only watch Celtic when they play outside Scotland.
I was wondering are there many who think like me or will the majority still stick with it, I have no axe to grind either way as it will be a personal decision for me and other Celts, a heartbreaker but we’ve been cheated and the inclusion of the newco will be a continuation of that, not for me.
I’ll catch any reply’s later.
Vinny
THE EXILED TIM says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:50
I did some sums last night based on SB sales only. Their attendances are 49,000, now they could go down to 35,000 and still have enough left after repaying £10M a year back tax to field a squad with a higher wage bill than Hearts could on the same attendance basis.
HMRC will know the figures and the risks and whilst I accept their gates will drop, if they know it is for their long term survival I think they will not drop beyond a critical level. If they do,it is time up and it is their support’s fault for not supporting. HMRC still get more back than they would under liquidation and a club with no support gets what it deserves.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo says:
12 January, 2012 at 18:29
Bravo sir….Here here to that !
THE EXILED TIM says:
12 January, 2012 at 20:50
I like the idea of HMRC allowing orcs time to pay off their debt to them if/when the Tribunal rules against them.
I wonder how much they’d ask for, and how much interest over the interim.
It’s possible that an assessment of income against required (to operate as a football club) outgoings could find that the orcs have a ‘surplus’ of £25m each year and the HMRC decide they’re having half of that amount for four years.
This would be do-able, but much would depend on the timing of each demand – just at the end of their new ST money period would be my preferred time – just grab £12.5m from them in June/July and Bob’s your faither’s brother, sell the entire first team and compete with Kilmarnock for a while :-)