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If we had competed against Ross County and Aberdeen and lost then it would have been bad but we’d be left with a huge sense of disappointment, maybe even anger but not feeling, as many do, complete and abject disillusionment with two spineless performances.
It is this feeling that brings out the calls for change.
This Celtic team is criminally light weight. Nice, touchy football is all very well on lovely, bowling green surfaces but this is Scotland. We know we have to play on middens like Hampden & Pittodrie and to win in these places skill often has to sacrificed for a much more pragmatic approach or, if you like, win ugly.
Deila hasn’t the first clue about what it takes. However, Collins & Kennedy should. All three, and the Norwegian backroom team, must go. They are a failed experiment. I said last year we’d soon be playing to 20,000. Might be sooner than I thought.
Underwhelmed doesn’t come close.
Who would take the Celtic job as long as Lawell park and the projects are there
Need someone who will tell Lawell where to go
Now who would that be ?
Typical Donnelly ..playing the man not the ball
ST you??
td67
wasn’t your daughter a uni student ?
and remember the GB are just young like minded guys who had had enough of auld f4nnies going to the games in their cars, in their seats, sitting with folk they didn’t know, contributing sfa to the atmosphere at the games.
the gb would have been in the jungle if it was still there.
btw does td = Trump Donald ;-)
As it stands, given we are only 3 points ahead, I am not sure sacking RD now would be a good move. Would it cause more harm than good? Could we even get a better manager? I don’t know…
What I do know, from a fan’s point of view, this season pretty much every ‘big game’ that I have been excited about watching or going to has ended in crushing disappointment. In short, this season has been murder so far. The reason the double is still on is we haven’t really been tested in the Scottish Cup yet. The team has no fight, whenever we are up against it or face any sort of adversary, we lose.
Of course, RD is not completely to blame but he should be doing better with the players he has at his disposal. From top to bottom the whole club feels completely rudderless.
On a bad pitch, away to Aberdeen, we go with as light weight and poor midfield you are ever likely to see from a Celtic side.
Burghbhoy
‘Intolerable pressure’.
You mean like bullets through the post, police visits at 4 am, family evacuated to a safe location, attacks in the street or in a stadium, being victim of road rage and constant diatribes in every form of media outlet?
You mean like that?
Or guy who has been promoted way beyond his capabilities being under pressure for being shite?
Saying we are 3 points ahead of Aberdeen and still in the Scottish Cup is papering over the cracks.Aberdeen will get a big psychological boost from last nights game and will now believe they can win the league.The CKR signing puzzles me,one manager has already said he is unmanageable,he should have been sent off last night,Ronny couldn’t manage the Stokes situation and there seems quite obviously a problem with Commons,what hope then is there of him be able to manage CKR? I believe we have some decent players,I don’t believe Ronny is the man to get the best out of them.
Every right thinking Celtic fan accepts we can’t compete in CL with the likes of Spannish and English big teams. They have wage bills that dwarf ours.
We enjoy the same advantage in our domestic league yet some fans on here accept that we are level pegging teams with infinitely smaller budgets.
As Spock might say ‘ that’s incompatible with Logic..!’
I could go on for ever telling you you about the benefits of prolix.
soukous
Have Aberdeen not beat us before and thought the same? how did that end for them?
I just knew they would all be on.”We should sack the manager””We are useless””This player,that player is useless””The Boards fault””We will lose this league”
I now just read the effin panic merchants and have a right good laugh.I can really imagine them after any setback,flailing away at their keyboards foaming at the mouth in indignation.
I really enjoyed the game last night.I thought we were terrific,bossed the game,then got hit with a thunderbolt of a goal.Second half a bit more even.Good points,Sviatchenko looks a right battler,really up for the fight.Richards looked very useful,with a few games with Griff,could be a good partnership.Mc Gregor is turning into a very good midfielder,very clever on the ball,good first touch..Broony back,but not yet fully match fit.
Bad points.I think Jamesy can go anytime.Really does not look all that interested.Cant get hold of his agent?.Too much hot and cold from Biton at the moment.Lustig looking like a real weakling.Not tackling strongly,not crossing strongly,just looking weak.Goalkeeper with cross balls..
We will win this league by 10 points,maybe plus.
Changing the manager alone, whether that be now or in the summer, will not make a massive difference.
The strategy isn’t wrong, its just being badly implemented by people doing a job they’re not qualified to do.
Get a proper Director of Football (eg Strachan, McClair) and put them in charge of everything football related. Let the CEO concentrate on the money side and not meddle in the football side.
The Battered Bunnet on 4th February 2016 9:13 am
That’s a very fair point. It seems that Celtic have produced a lot of these young average to good (but not good enough) players. Could one hypothesize that Celtic have produced such a quantity of players of the standard of average performance clubs because we have had a tendency to bring in coaches and development staff from these clubs? E.g. Chris McCart from Motherwell, Stevie Frail from Hearts…
I appreciate that that may be rather harsh, however, these guys were hired based on their performance of producing or coaching at a level that was perceived as “good” at other clubs but is not “that good” at Celtic?
Just a suggestion, and as I say, probably a bit of a harsh judgement.
Gary67
If the Board decide no improvement the first step would be a meeting with the manager, then his team individually then them all together having heard what they believe to be wrong.
If they then agree it is something that can be fixed by change of formation or player positions or even tactics, like sitting in v Aberdeen and hitting them on the break then that would be the obvious first step.
If the answers suggest the manager or his team have faults that cannot be corrected then that would be the time to take the heat off their backs and replace him.
The wrong thing to do would be to sack RD to take the heat off their backs.
I thought TBB gave an excellent analysis of RD’S thinking last night and from it you can see where it does not match the supports.
Something has to change but mindsets are not peculiar to just one side although changing the minds of many is an uphill fight.
I thought TD67 expressed one mind set excellently but cannot copy paste. I will later.
Since I am simultaneously overwhelmend by outpourings of grief on here and underwhelmed by our recent couple of peformances on the park on average I think I am just whelmed.
Hail Hail,
kevinBhoy.
Title and cup winning manager arguably a handball decision from a treble, top of the league and going for the double, goals for tally pretty special.
Rookie manager struggling to overcome mediocre sides in big games more about the battle and tactics than expansive football, costing the club millions.
Both are true.
Compare and contrast with the turgidity of WGS and Lennon at times. Much more difficult to beat but then these pages were awash with romantic notions of the Celtic way being to score more than the opposition.
We’re missing the big game, feel good wins. Tynecastle in the cup possibly the exception this year. Maybe Aberdeen at home. 2 up in 13 minutes with Johansen one-on-one with the Malmo keeper felt good right enough, as did the wave after wave of attack on the Fenerbahce goal, and looking like a deserved victory in Amsterdam. 15 minutes in on Sunday and we were all wondering ‘how many’. All undone with silly mistakes.
Anyway, irrespective of deep disappointment at specific results and performances the 18 month report card must at least read ‘needs improvement’. My position right now is that there are steps to take before that requires a change of manager. There are enough mitigating circumstances to suggest there are issues to address before we do more of the same. Let’s not sell both centre halves. Lets not go into a season with one recognised goalscorer. Let’s stop the merry-go-round of £1m to £2m obscure strikers.
It can be difficult to not to undermine confidence or indeed ego but if it can be done I’d like to see a consultant/mentor work with Ronny, and a wiser more respected number 2.
John Robertson was the players man under MON, a great wing man. Steve Clarke was a massive part of Chelsea’s success. Actually he’s who I am thinking about. I’d love him at Celtic Park as an advisor/coach. I believe he’s out of work. He’d also be a great safety net. If that spelled the end of Collins and/or Kennedy then so be it. Who’s to say he would entertain it, I have no idea, I’d like to try.
Then there’s Pep. What’s he up to for the next few months? Bit of acclimatisation in the UK in an advisory gig? Bit fanciful, but hey.
Ronny is managing a perpetually moving cycle of players. Cohesion and team spirit are not easy in those circumstances, and in a league where focus is not as sharp as it is when every single week is a must win. We miss competition, and paradoxically have now brought it on ourselves. Yes, going backwards. No, not all about Ronny.
That’s me position, if he’s failing in his position then address why. Support him to do his job.
SydneyTim says sack Lawell now
It’s your wife isn’t it
Turkeybhoy
Erik will be great …then sold.
Griffiths is rapidly losing patience as he outgrows his team mates.
Tierney is a lion hearted man of 18.
Biton is IMO too classy for the team he takes the ball he is composed but often caught as he has no one to pass to.
James Forrest should never wear a Celtic strip again. The fastest player on the park who is always 2nd to a 50-50.
Coward of the highest order.
Brown living off a reputation and Lustig a spent force.
As for CKR he is a dirty player who lacks any goal scoring instinct. He will only bring fines.
As for Deila – he is delusional.
Lawwell is a business manager. We need a leader.
Morning Bhoys a nice dry one here in Central Scotland. So we have lost two games on the spin anyone would think this has never happened to a Celtic team before well it has.Now is the time for calm and also time to back the manager and the team.Celtic will win the league and those of you think they wont should be at the bookies betting the mortgage on Aberdeen and you will lose your shirt.Now Ronny is in a difficult position as he has lost the confidence of much of the Celtic support and may never recover from that.However I believe now is not the time for panic changes we should let the season play out and the managers position should be discussed in the close season.H.H.
I liked this by Tony Donnelly67:
“I don’t worry about Celtic winning the league I just support them hoping it helps them win the league” .
I did not like this by Tony Donnelly67:
“I’m still here, and still going, and always will, no matter how many splinter groups, Ultra’s, left wing socialists, and Uni. Students turn up ”
I have also enjoyed Robert88`s posts .
When I first started reading CQN, it usually made me feel good because I was not used to positivity about Celtic via the written word. That positivity is certainly not the case now.
A Dundee supporting guy I know once said to me that he liked Celtic fans because, unlike the other big Glasgow team of the time, Celtic fans behaved well in defeat. We did not think we had a right to win every game and we did not call for the Manager`s head even if we were miles behind in the League and out of Cups.
I have not seen him of late. I wonder if his views have changed?
Cheerio,
JJ
Lol, honest ti God, you’d think we where three points off relegation with two games to play, talk about drama queens, and all for what? To get rid of the coaching staff so that PL and the board look silly and get rid of them too, yup the lunatics have taken over .
Robert88,maybe I can go further back than you but the answer to your question is yes and it ended up pretty well for them but that was a long time ago.My point is last nights results gives them a boost and it is not a given that they are going to bottle it.I would say they are a more creditable threat this year than they were last.
I don’t have any doubts that we’ll win this league. I’m pretty sure we will. Not because we are better than any other team but mainly because we are slightly more consistent. Consistency and the lack of consistency of our competitors is what will win us the league.
I don’t think we will win the Scottish Cup though. I think it will be a one trophy season. I base that on my judgement that we are mentally and physically weak in a one game spin off when up against a competitor with hunger who knows how to attack our weaknesses.
I also think we will be given a wee taste of next season with a tie against the Second Hunning. Which we will win marginally. This victory be viewed almost like a defeat.
I never wanted Ronny! My words at the appointment of our perspective assistant manager as manager are on these pages in black and white at the time of his appointment.
However I supported him for as long as I could as our manager giving him the benefit of the doubt while the evidence of his softness slowly began to stack up. I did and still do excuse the Legia Warsaw debacle as a tie that came too early after his appointment for him to take any blame for that.
Ronny is a nice guy. He talks a nice game. If only he could translate his words into actions by our players then we might have had a pretty good team to watch.
Defensively we have been a shambles since his appointment. His weakness in this area is mitigated by selling our heart of defender and the employment of loan deals which have not given him a solid foundation to build on. He has also been hamstrung by injuries in this department. IMO the weakness in defense has been down to club policy and bad luck with injuries. All that said, organisation at set pieces, corners and frees, has been poor since day one and are there to see. Every team knows just how easy it is to score a goal against us. Especially so since our first fray in the Europa league were we provided all our domestic opponents to come a view of just how soft a weakness this is. Our domestic opponents have taken advantage of this weakness since that campaign.
In midfield we have on paper some pretty decent players. Some have let the manager down this season – Johannsen, some have been pushed aside – Commons, some have been injured at times – Brown, some have been inconsistent – Bitton, some are still being developed and a few years away from being at top of their game – Armstrong. We have so many options in this department that in my view Ronny has struggled to nail down his strongest midfield. This is a major weakness of the man as a manager. He should be capable of identifying his middle 3 or 4 and stick to it unless injury dictates. He has not only been inconsistent with selection but also inconsistent when selecting a player in their strongest position. In my view this has been down to him having too many options to choose from and him being incapable of identifying his strongest and most effective, Scott Brown being the exception. I have seen so many different players in these positions now that I struggle to see our best formation. Yet I’d still have KC sitting behind our striker (or strikers as I’d prefer it to be). We have seen Ronny put our strongest Central, attacking or sitting mids out on the left or the right when it quickly becomes apparent that they are incapable of playing these positions or are less effective. Players should be played to their strengths and grouped by their strengths. I just find myself dumbfounded at times by his selections.
Up front we have literally had one option in LG with many failures surrounding him since Ronny arrived. Playing in the SPFL and selecting one up front has in my view been one of Ronnie’s biggest downfalls. I’d always go for 2 strikers in this league. But maybe that decision has been forced by how poor the options and signings have been in for these positions. Although personally I think Stokes should have been given more opportunities.
I think every one of us can see were the failings lie in our team.
Occasionally Ronnie’s team clicks but those occasions are all too rare and generally come against the weaker opponents we face.
For me in a perfect world I’d be saying thanks to Ronnie for trying but sorry it’s time to stop flogging a dead horse.
Sadly our club are no where near that utopia. We have a board who, in my opinion are weak when it comes to the main product of the business albeit they sure can balance sheets. Again, in my opinion, they have allowed ons man far too much influence over the footballing side of the business without predicting his salary and or bonus against that which he controls with an iron fist. He controls every purchase and sale, and in my opion once more foist unwanted players on his team manager who the manager has to attempt to accomodate into his side somehow. Rightly or wrongly I believe this to be the case. He controls the scouting which should be there to assist the manager in identifying players to the managers specifications not the other way around as I view it more that the scouting team act on behalf of Peter the Pied Piper more than they do the manager. For me this corporate egotistical business sociopath should not be near the decision making of the footballing side of the business except to provide budgetary restrictions and measure managerial performance. We have consistently for too many years seen too many players come and go in too many positions who have failed drastically for them to be wholly managerial choices. These players have been bought with a view to maintain one mans bonus culture in the hope that 50p will bleed a million pounds.
Until we see a change in strategy and plan at the top or a change in CEO then in my view it does not matter a hot who our manager is, except to say he will be a cheap inexperienced option, who signs up knowing were the cards fall understanding they do not have control over player purchases.
Now I may be wrong with my views as detailed above. I may be completely and utterly way off the mark. But I do not believe that I am. I have spoken with too many people who have a deeper insight into the workings of our club who come from varying backgrounds and each to a man of woman are real Celtic supporters for my views to be groundless. Yet again that is just my opinion.
Anyway. The point I am trying to make is that unless we change the top, the strategy and the plan, we are pretty much were we are for the foreseeable no matter the manager. In my view.
MWD
Tony, it’s undeniable we have been underperforming since Ronny took over
The standard of SPFL is irrelevant . All teams get to play each other . If any one team other than Celtic has a good enough season to beat the other teams, like us , then they will have the same points, simple maths. If they can take points off us, as the sheeps have, then they challenge for the top. Celtic need to dig deep to stay on top. Now is the time to support the team until May. Stand up for the Glasgow Celtic. Time will tell if Ronnie gets more time, judge and jury are out in the rags. I am trying not to lose the love but hey reading CQN news these days is far worse than reading the daily record. Yes I am a happy clapper at the worst of times sure but to come on here and see constant unending slagging of Celtic is too much for me. Last post till the new season. No matter what the season brings win lose or draw I will support Celtic . Walk on or walk on by. Hail Hail .
TD67
I’m just posting this as an example of the different mindsets at play.
“I don’t worry about Celtic winning the league I just support them hoping it helps them win the league,”
Would others care to post theirs?
Mine? I want to enjoy watching Celtic play each time they do but if they don’t I don’t take it personally.
BlantyreKev
I have to say I agree with a lot of that. Ronny does need to learn from mistakes though. I think he has the makings of a really good manager but he needs to wise up a bit.
Small things and mistakes have, as you have pointed out, been our undoing quite often and from that point of view I really sympathise with Ronny. However, it is how we react to those mistakes. At the moment, as soon as something goes against us you can see the fight go out of the whole team and you can tell we are on a hiding to nothing.
You are correct, in my opinion, in saying that he needs a better support team than Collins and Kennedy. Kennedy has too much learning to do himself to be supporting a manager who is learning.
I said last night that I like Ronny and think in the long run he would be a success, but unfortunately I think too many in the support have turned. He won’t be sacked now but I’d be surprised (perhaps pleasantly) if he was manager next season.
I also said he needs to put a more robust team on the pitch for the rest of the season.
Hoof the baw!
MWD. Usually scroll past long posts. But saw it was you
Read it and 100% agree
CEO is the reason for our failures
soukous
and my answer is so what, as long as we come out and top and we will who cares, should you not relish the challenge as opposed to fear it and start bricking ti like all these nutters saying sack him, sack the board the lot.
sacking and booing is not the answer, no matter who is in charge.
Auldheid
Here’s my take..
I support the values of my club I will
Do anything to defend against those who debase the club or its values.
With the enormous budget advantage we enjoy I expect / demand that we are better than all domestic opponents.
In the 14 games after our defeat at Pittodrie earlier this season we took 33 pts inclusing beating Aberdeen at home.
If we do the same from here on in Aberdeen will need to win every one of their other 13 games to finish top.
Do any of you bedwetters [ ;) ]see them doing that?
If there are going to be changes in the management of the football side of the club or in management the stock exchange will be informed first,Celtic always make statements towards the end of the day, 5ish.
The MSM have the knives out for Ronny and are encouraging the Celtic Support to call for his sacking now most Celtic supporters know this so dont fall for there flannel. We also know that the establishment team get praised to the highest that is there agenda people like Andy Walker are doffing there cap and undermining the hoops the sad part is that many Celtic supporters are taking there lead from him . It is strange that the majority of ex hoops players tend to run Celtic down there are one or two exceptions Tom Boyd and Tosh McKinley spring to mind but we supporters sing that we are faithful through and through.So lets be faithful and get right behind Ronny and the Bhoys as we are needed at this time more than ever. H.H.
The question yesterday that the board would only ask is the same question that applies today.
Will RD get us into the CL?
But.
I reckon the board had already answered that question well before last night. Were they waiting until the summer to pull the trigger then put £50 on the season books but present a new manager and a new future to justify the rise (even though they would have wanted to put the books up if two teams get promoted).
Cynical? Yes. Fanciful. Almost.
I remember being at a roadshow after we appointed Lennon. The first question to PL was when are you resigning as you got the last appointment so so wrong. He admitted that he got the appointment wrong.
So, for those of the thinking that he hasn’t admitted mistakes he has and will do so again if it is needed. But it will be on his terms. Not on yours, mines or the media’s.
The board are not dumb despite what some think. It’s an interesting few days coming up. I hope silence and lock down is not on the cards.
MWD
Great post.
One if the questions I posted last night was for an explanation of the recruitment process and payments to PL.
As you said you may right about how it’s done but unless we actually know then the right solution is not going to arise.
Whilst transparency and accountability is what we want of the SFA it should permeate it’s way throughout football.
Giggsy on 4th February 2016 10:16 am
Similar outlook, as for RD going i believe this is his last season in charge, the European results and performances are mainly why, RD’s failures in team shape, tactics and selections in big games just cannot be ignored
I dont believe the board has a replacement lined up as of yet, but im sure they are sounding out possibles to get a list, the board wont make a knee jerk reaction sacking RD unless we lose the league before the split
Lots of supporter dissatisfaction around the management team, even winning the league will not totally resolve that, new management team and Sevco will be back to sell tickets, and if we lose the league the big old firm sell will be marketed……………………the bottom line
Quality of the match – Wasn’t a great match. Neither team were able to create too much due to the frantic nature of the game. Two brilliant solo efforts aside, the game was settled by a set piece. The reason the game wasn’t that good was because of the heavy pitch. If that isn’t an advert for summer football then I don’t know what is.
Celtic were trying to move the ball around like they were playing on a carpet. The ball wasn’t moving quick enough so they didn’t create enough. They only improved when CKR game them a more direct option.
To be plain, Neil Lennon or Gordon Strachan wouldn’t have picked that sort of team for that sort of pitch.
Aberdeen – They were physically stronger and worked very hard. They clearly had been working on set pieces as Celtic cannot defend them. That work paid off with the goal and Church could have had a second.
Hayes – Great goal. An absolute thunderb****** on the run
Celtic – Clearly missed having either Rogic or Commons in the 10 position. Armstrong just didn’t do it. Playing Griffiths, GMS and McGregor left them looking a bit lightweight and they only really improved when Kazim-Richards was introduced.
Kazim-Richards – Started really well and looked a good player. Ruined it with the disgraceful stamp. Clearly he’s bad news.
While there will be a lot of hyperbole about how Aberdeen were brilliant and Celtic were awful. In the end, this is just another important game Celtic have lost due to a set piece.