Honestly, see these rugby types complaining about a referee, don’t they know these things even themselves out over the season? What’s that? You mean the maths suggest that random events don’t even themselves out with small sample sizes, such as cup ties (sample of 1) and games against rivals (same of 4)?
The ‘even themselves out’ brigade could do with some remedial maths, it’s statistical hokum.
Within 24 hours of a mistake World Rugby called it so. No ‘referees’ union’ stonewalling, no defending the indefensible, no conspiracy to hide a lie, no tolerance of unacceptable standards, no fans left wondering why their game was misaligned with the rules. Without delay, World Rugby set the record straight, there is literally nothing more to see here.
Compare and contrast with our own sport in Scotland. The ‘referees’ union’ is alive and well, indefensible decisions are excused by a myriad of excuses, unacceptable standards have been tolerated for decades, instead of an explanation, fans are left with a vacuum into which they attempt to construct reason (which is very unhelpful). And although a referee quickly declared his own lie, the culture of the SFA was such that it was not declared beyond the Association until after a whistle-blower made sure it was known. Fifa is not the only football organisation bedevilled by a culture of cronyism.
Scottish football is under no pressure from above to improve. Fifa and Uefa thrive in the culture which has recently been revealed – largely by US prosecutors and journalists, some of whom have been whistling in the wind for 30 years. This percolates down to national associations, who are filled with office holders, appointed by the same patronage culture which allowed Michel Platini pocket 2m Swiss francs from Sep Blatter’s Fifa.
Nor is there sufficient pressure on the SFA from member clubs, apart from Celtic and one or two others, who are viewed as pariahs by some at Hampden, for the persistent flow of DVD-enclosed performance complaints.
It’s not easy being a referee; good ones are invaluable. They will continue to make mistakes at all levels, in all sports, but it should be easy to have an open culture which recognises the interests of the paying spectators. Just as World Rugby does. Protecting referees with a wall of silence is, in fact, not protecting them at all.
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When is the next golf tournament?Maybe then we might here something from the board.
Gary 67
Do you really think the press would treat Celtic the same way as they do the Huns/Zombies? Comparisons are a waste of time. It’s not an even playing field.
Joe
First of all, you shouldn’t assume that the club are “sitting on their hands” just because the club aren’t broadcasting everything they do.
Also, there has to be some understanding that discretion is often required when doing business. It’s a fact of life. Even Auldheid has to withhold information he has obtained.
Personally, there will always be unhappy Celtic fans as some guys love to moan. I can’t tell you how many times I have sat at a Celtic game where the fans around me have been silent. As soon as something goes wrong they are moaning and putting down their own team. Let’s not forget the chants for “Strachan get tae ****” before we won the league.
When have Celtic supporters ever carried out a successfully organized boycott?
On Saturday it was Alan Muir but could have been any of the SFA Boys Brigade, they’ve already closed ranks, without Celtic having uttered a public word.
They’d strike like they did the last time and run rings round a boycott by switching referees, at the last minute. The SFA will wait for a while and slip Alan Muir in, after he’s been shielded, just like they did when Steven McLean boldly walked onto Celtic Park for his £800, in the friendly verse Rennes.
Time for a Celtic strategy, not a question via fan pressure.
Parkheadcumsalford
Yip, I have been saying something similar for long enough, I even said the other day, either we get a move or a level playing field, if we get neither, I would shut up shop, cos what’s the point.
HH
Tony this rather tiresome nonsense about me “dressing things up as facts” is really just tiresome. You just cant engage in debate and would rather distract from it with claims of agendas, opinions, etc. But hey you carry on.
Joe Fillipi – celtics situation vis a vis the corruption is worse than just a suspiscion . The media have already called out Celtic as being involved with the 5 way agreement (whilst not party to it). Now if celtic werent then celtic could easily deny such a claim. Silence fans would say that we should not give it any oxygen – but the thing is its easy to deny it and the truth is that it is simply inconveivable with PL’s lofty position at the SFA (something that some of us it seems conveniently forget) that we didnt know about it and werent involved.
Celtics silence is simply evidence of their complicity.
If you want more evidence of their unwillingness to tackle these issues look no further than res12.
TD 67. Agree with most of what you posted just now, must have attended the same academy. Ofcourse there are many serious Agendas being driven to divide us. They have so much time on their hands not supporting their own, and only satisfaction for them is bring us down with them.
Timaloy29, hit the nail on the head re. media. Why give them fodder to help sell their papers. I am also sure that they are working to change within. To try and use referees’ bad decisions isn’t the way to go. Other club members of the SFA will laugh at Celtic. To a man, as well as ex-Celts have constantly said they and the other mob get all the decisions. I don’t believe that, but there are more serious issues like the police act that we are getting support for. Even there, it is difficult for Celtic to go public, once they do they lose the support of the other clubs.
That said, they should be challenged at AGM on all above.
However, the talk of boycott Muir won’t happen as he will not be appointed to another Celtic away game, unless it’s a Cup Final KTF
Good to read Under 19 captain Fiacre Kelleher issue a rally cry to the supporters for the UEFA Youth League qualifier in Livingston tonight.
Brilliant 5-0 win in the first leg, hope more than a few East coast Celts can get to the Tony Macaroni Arena Stadium Park for 7pm tonight.
Come on all you non-boycotters.
NA2
The problem is we are a PLC first, a football club second, till imo, that wrong is righted, things will not change.
They believe that silence, and allowing the club to be cheated will keep the business side of things ticking over, they are 100% wrong imo, a business that is getting funds stolen from them and doing nothing about it is destined to fail at some point.
HH
Match officials are announced in the week leading up to the fixtures. Match tickets are sold weeks in advance. How is this boycott to be carried out? Buy tickets and not turn up? Guess when Muir will referee one of our games?
I don’t understand the logistics.
Would be obliged if anyone could point me to a bar in Playa Del Carmen where I might catch the game on Thursday
NegAnon2 on 20th October 2015 1:49 pm
Do you think the media have an anti-Celtic agenda?
The total lack of transparency and openness surrounding the SFA and referees might lead the cynical to conclude that the atmosphere in which they operate reflects a culture of secrecy and of arcane rules and procedures designed to include only the initiated and to exclude those not deemed to be one of the inner sanctum.
Those excluded seem to include in their number , as one of the referees’ body members on CSS last night referred to us all generically , the “punters” and , from Pauls article above, some but not all clubs.
Rings a bell, that sort of approach to things. Can’t for the life of me , though, place what other organisations might take a similar view…
From previous thread.
AULDHEID on 20TH OCTOBER 2015 11:53 AM
TD67
So Celtic can do nothing.
An announcement that on the last day of season 2016/17 Celtic will be doing a Belfast Celtic would certainly tranfix minds at Hampden and other places.
THE EXILED TIM on 20TH OCTOBER 2015 1:58 PM
NA2
The problem is we are a PLC first, a football club second, till imo, that wrong is righted, things will not change.
They believe that silence, and allowing the club to be cheated will keep the business side of things ticking over, they are 100% wrong imo, a business that is getting funds stolen from them and doing nothing about it is destined to fail at some point.
Won’t argue with that.
HH
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/rugby-refereeing-leaving-football-in-wake/comment-page-2/#comment-2699776
Quonno
My own belief is that they’d slow hand clap us off the stage.
Then where are we?
HAMILTONTIM on 20TH OCTOBER 2015 2:48 PM
Quonno
My own belief is that they’d slow hand clap us off the stage.
Then where are we?
You may well be right.
Then again, much of what is posed here suggests that if our Board have not got the guts for the fight then we might as well not exist.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/rugby-refereeing-leaving-football-in-wake/comment-page-2/#comments
Weeminger yes of course the media has an anti celtic agenda. But that is just part of scotlands instituitional racism. The fundamental problem is the insutitutional racism and not solely with the media itself. Institutional racism is founded on a self replicating cycle (only those who agree with the racism get the jobs, get promoted and prosper) – those not aligned will be weeded out.
That the media has this bias is not in question. That scotland is institutionally racist is not in question.
What is in question here is that the club formed partly to give a voice to the victims of that racism are tacitly joining in. I find that far worse than the purveyors of the racism itself. Its the ultimate betrayal. This horrible truth is what lies in front of us. I guess we are all making decisions around how we each want to deal with it.
TET I think that being a PLC is only part of the issue – I agree though it is a contributory factor. A true, unencumbered PLC, would go after the cheating because it is having a direct impact on the financial performance of the company. Indeed company law would suggest the company would have a fudiciary duty to do so (acting in the best interests of shareholders). But in this respect Celtic are not a fully fledged public PLC – insofar as they are not acting in the interests of all of their shareholders – rather they act in the interests of the single largest shareholder. His views on the topic of the old firm are common and public knowledge.
So I think the PLC aspect only contributes – DD, PL and the current boards so called strategy and support for the old firm model is the most fundamental problem.
So are we to keep paying into a sham that we know is rigged ?
We always knew we were getting cheated, now we have the proof, and some are happy to contribute, can’t work that one out, sometimes short term pain is worth it for long term gain.
Aff oot, airport run.
Quonno
I’d prefer to see them held to account for their mistakes, handling of supporter issues and lack of vision in increasing revenue by other means.
If it continues seek their removal.
NegAnon2 on 20th October 2015 2:57 pm
So you’re quite clear the media has an anti-Celtic agenda and yet you’re happy to take their word on the club’s involvement in the 5-way agreement.
Now it may well be true, but it certainly suits the media’s agenda to make it up.
1) it increases the sense of injustice among the RIFC fans who believe (incredibly) that the 5-way agreement worked against them; and
2) it creates division in the Celtic support both between fans and between fans and board.
I think all the clubs knew a deal was going to be struck but they all were kept in the dark on the details, giving them plausible deniability. Why has not one single other club spoken out about it?
COSYCORNERBHOY
Bit of a bummer when yer hoist by yer own pedant,innit?
My fault,I kept meaning to show you how to edit yer posts when I was home.
But,well,summat came up. And I loved every minute of them summats !
Paul 67,
Good leader today.
The World Cup Rugby crew’s action in recognizing the error, has moved the story on considerably, and whilst it will still be talk of the town amongst Scottish press, elsewhere it is trickling out.
Lessons learned from a professional organization, who in many respects are a competitor to SFA ( broadcasting income, sponsorship, leisure spend etc)
WEEMINGER on 20TH OCTOBER 2015 11:52 AM
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 20th October 2015 11:47 am
I’m really wary of that site and it’s motivations after they put a prominent Celtic blogger/commentors full name into the public domain last night.
Given what might be achieved by that person, I think it was really putting them in danger.
Thankfully it seems to have been taken down.
~~~~~~~~~~*++*~~~~~~~~~~
It might be a different article from the one I can still view.
I’d be concerned that they are correct,bearing in mind some of the quotes attributed. If,of course,it is the same article. The one which names someone you referred to.
I would also be concerned as to why that poster hasn’t explained his position,in favour of simply demanding it be removed.
HAMILTONTIM on 20TH OCTOBER 2015 3:01 PM
Quonno
I’d prefer to see them held to account for their mistakes, handling of supporter issues and lack of vision in increasing revenue by other means.
If it continues seek their removal.
And that poses the biggest question of all.
Short of voting with our wallets, how do we hold them to account.
Keep turning up and it’s a case of we must be happy.
Raise issues at AGM.
A shrug of the shoulders and boot issues into long grass beside Res 12.
Being their religion, money is the only language that the DDs of this world understand.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/rugby-refereeing-leaving-football-in-wake/comment-page-2/#comments
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS on 20th October 2015 3:15 pm
It was a different piece.
Most remarkable and perhaps least commented aspect of rugby refereeing bloomer was the players and coaches acceptance of refs ruling.
Had that been football, all hell would have broken loose on the-park.
Parkheadcumsalford @ 1.40
good post, my friend.
Well we can see how fragmented we Celtic supporters are over the current situation it shows me how difficult it would be to instigate change.I can see no real hope for improvement when there are so many different views of what change is needed and that will allow our enemies to continue to keep us in our place. We will continue to support Celtic even though we know we are being cheated it is the old saying United we stand Divided we fall and we the support are very divided. H.H.
Well you see this is the benefits of being a good mason and toeing the party line you reap the you get your reward, no shame at all at hampden, why am I not surprised?
image: http://cdn.videocelts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/SFA.jpg
SFAAlan Muir will referee Saturday’s Premiership match between Hearts and Ross County at Tynecastle.
e.
At Fir Park Celtic were denied two clear penalties which could well have resulted in red cards if the laws of the game had been followed, neither incident was borderline or required additional cameras or slow motion to highlight the fouls committed.
Fortunately Celtic took all three points from the match which took some of the spotlight off the performance of the referee and his assistant on the main stand.
Saturday’s match at Tynecastle will be Muir’s fourth Premiershi[p appointment of the season.
Celtic’s match on Sunday will be refereed by Craig Thomson whose most recent hoops fixture was the controversial defeat from Aberdeen at Pittodrie last month.
Thomson felt that Andrew Considine’s foul on Leigh Griffiths eight yards from goal only merited a yellow card despite Celtic’s top scorer being in a position to shoot at goal.
Before taking charge of that match Thomson will be the man in the middle for tomorrow’s Juventus v Borusia Monchengladbach tie in the Champions League with Steven McLean and Kevin Clancy as additional assistants behind the goal.
Next week’s Hearts v Celtic League Cup tie will be refereed by John Beaton who has already refereed two Celtic matches this season, the Premiership wins over Partick Thistle and St Johnstone. Russian officials will be in charge of the Molde v Celtic Europa League tie.
Read more at http://videocelts.com/2015/10/blogs/latest-news/sfa-stand-by-alan-muir#P3rcl9Li1Xabs508.99
If I remember correctly, Phil gave an indication that today held some sort of significance in the future of Murray Park (to be used no longer) and Ibrox itself (to be closed except on match days).Either a meeting was due to be held today to decide if the above was to be introduced or this was the effective day for it to happen. I think it was also hinted that Sevco were to use a school on Great Western Road’s playing fields for training. Does anyone have any further information on this?
We concentrate on specific bad decisions against us and rightly so. But there is another big issue, referees controlling or having too much influence on the flow of games that we are involved. This kind of thing hurts Celtic more than any other club due to our nature of playing free flowing attacking football. For example in the league cup semi last season, Craig Thomson did everything in his power to control the game by giving fouls at every opportunity. Thus taking the flow and tempo out of the match. On Saturday at Motherwell Muir did the same when Pearson went through Efe. It was at least a stonewall yellow but by not booking Pearson, this sends a clear message to the other Motherwell players that foul play will be tolerated. On so many occasions I watch Celtic wingers go passed full backs and no yellow card is issued. We all know that booking a full back presents the winger with a clear advantage.
Things like this are happening in lots of games and when you throw in the big decisions it amazes me that Ronny keeps so calm about it.
So let me get this right. Celtic had no knowledge WHATSOEVER of the 5 way agreement and two weeks after it was signed Peter Lawwell was on a flight with Doncaster (lets call it a corrective flight as the first journey had already been made .. this was a renegotiate ) to make sure that all the other clubs especially the newly formed club got more money at our expense. Aww diddums nothing we could do about it and it was Campbell Ogilvie and Andy Goram that decided upon our terms and conditions for this Season Ticket sales ?
Anyone going to attempt to round this one up for me ? … without getting Personal … go on I dare you .. the floor is all yours.
This is what you genuinely believe ?
HH
Awe naw – you know what I believe.
Weeminger I get your point about believing the media. However all Celtic need to do is deny it. All they had to say was they werent aware and werent involved. They didnt.
Nuff said.
Joe Fillipi – if the club wanted to unify us it would be really easy. SImply come out fighting and we would rally behind the cause but………………….they dont think there is enough money in it…………………
Paul67 et al
The Referees Association in Scotland is for the most part a Masonic Cabal. They do not do change. They have an agenda, worse than ever in recent years in my view, which is whenever and wherever possible, prevent Celtic winning. And here is the best part, we pay them nearly a grand a game to do so! Craig Joubert had a disastrous finish to the Scotland Australia match, missed late tackle on Stuart Hogg before the lineout and then called it wrong after, but I doubt that he favoured Australia before the match. Masonic handshakes are nothing new in Scottish football of course, nothing new in Scottish Banking either come to think of it, and look how that turned out!
Neganon,
The TV money is only worth buttons to us . We only do this due to our obsessive philanthropic bent in helping the other clubs. Even if it means losing 5,000 supporters in the stadium due to k.o times. There are Celtic fans who genuinely believe this .
HH
CELTIC MAC
Don´t forget how we hung Steven Craven out to dry for telling the truth. We never backed him
HH
Regarding the hullabaloo over the referee in the rugby. The main reason that there is an outcry is that the refs rarely get any big decisions wrong, the explain decisions to the players and refer to the TMO and get most right. In Scotland however we have no real accountability, refs are allowed to get away with decisions which beggar belief week in week out, there is no accountability to the paying customer. World rugby carried out an investigation immediately and ruled the ref made an error. The SFA ever do that?
Another thing that really gets on my goat is former refs doing the after dinner circuit and telling all and sundry that Celtic never got a decision or a penalty on their watch against anyone but especially Deidco..I have yet to hear any ref say he never gave Deidco a decision.
It’s really up to the club to get tougher..the supporters are further away from this board than ever before. It’s time they acted like the supporters they profess to be.
Kikinthenakas
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