I was at primary school during the 1979 devolution referendum. It’s fair to say many in the Celtic community were suspicious of the SNP due to the hostile attitudes some of the party leadership had to the Irish diaspora in their midst.
Fresh blood brought change to the SNP in the 1980s, there were even overtures to Irish nationalism. Alex Salmond cemented these changes, broadened the appeal of the party towards new and multi-generation immigrants, and asserted the SNP’s multi-faith credentials. He also became close friends with disgraced Cardinal O’Brien (which is no reflection on Mr Salmond).
At the height of his political powers Salmond appears to have overreached. Something would be done about men shouting at football games. From now on only certain flavours of nationalism would be favoured, acceptable, perhaps even legal. MSP Christine Graham let the Scottish Parliament know, the problem was that Celtic fans were not acting illegally, so the law had to change.
The Axe the Act candidate in today’s Glasgow City Council, Govan, by-election, Thomas Rannachan has brought the consequences of Salmond’s largess to his door. The SNP are defending the seat but one year out from the battle Salmond really needs to win, his shoddy attack on football fans is set to undermine him. As an independent Rannachan may not win, but he has put the First Minister on the back foot.
George Ryan’s funeral will take place at St Andrew’s Cathedral, Glasgow, at 10:00 on Monday. All are welcome.
Sean’s book’s here, fill your boots:
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yorkbhoy
Interesting. In my post @ 15.43 I took it to mean that the powers that be used our silence to support their actions. Our silence was seen as agreement when , in fact, it was apathy or cowardice.
Your interpretation has made me think. Now, I can see why Kit asked the question 0:-)
Off to the shops when I will give the matter further thought and forget half the messages!
JJ
Trying to contact Pog Laird of the smiles.
I have two spare tickets for the Germany Eire game tomorrow.
I messaged him on facebook and no answer.
HH
Anyone know if hes about ?
HH
Chick Hun said the glib and shameless liar” is good to go” and return to Poundland,that will be OK then.This could be PL’s first test as part of the SPFL Board.
Glasgow Evening Times Billboards………King says yes to Gers return.
Now having read that piece on the BBC site yesterday, consider this:
Had the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act been law during the 1980s, it would have been a criminal offence to sing The Specials song ‘Free Nelson Mandela’ at a football ground in Scotland, referencing and expressing support as it does for both a terrorist – Mandela – and a terrorist organisation – the ANC. It remains likely that this song is proscribed under the act today.
Crosses my mind, and this is not a serious suggestion, but if one were sufficiently devilish, and minded to provoke a legal confrontation, one might write a song expressing admiration of and support for convicted former terrorist Martin McGuinness, now of course Deputy First Minister of Her Majesty’s government in Northern Ireland.
The Scottish Parliament’s own watchdog, Human Rights Commissioner Shelagh McCall, advised the Scottish Parliament during the passage of the law, that the proposals contravened 3 articles of the European Convention on Human Rights, and presented myriad other legal difficulties.
Despite her advice and that of many others in the fields of Law and Sociology, the parliament passed the act and here we all are. At least those of us not in the jail.
The act is wrong, in part because it seeks to separate and isolate the history of Ireland from the history of all other nations, and view it through the lens of an often invalid British subjectivity.
The act is wrong, in part because it seeks to legislate for what may be offensive to some, without questioning whether any offence should be taken at all.
The act is wrong, in part because what it purports to achieve – greater social cohesion – it necessarily compromises and undermines.
But fundamentally, the act is wrong because is contradicts and breaches the law itself.
Axe the Act
Labour – betrayal of working class and it’s socialist founders – check
troops into Ireland……………………………………………….- check
Invasion of middle east leading to 1,455, 590 (*)
innocent civilians killed………………………………………..- check
Deregulation of economy leading to global meltdown
and misery for billions on earth…………………………….- check
Hmm might vote for them, but hang on………………,
Tories- Perpetuation of the class war waged by the top
one percent of the population on the other 99%……….- check
Responsibility for the most bitter parts of the war
in Ireland, including deaths of hunger strikers………….- check
Sell off of everything held dear in UK……………………..- check
Planning to destroy NHS………………………………………- check
Destruction of manufacturing and mining………………..- check
Hmmm they might get the vote. who else?
SNP Commit Scotland to sustainable 100% green energy…- check
Free education for students……………………………………- check
Creation of 125,000 apprenticeships……………………… – check
Insertion of spine into anglicised conquered nation…..- check
Stopping people shouting offensive things in public….- WHIT!!!!!!
They can eff off. I’m voting labour. God bless the Queen
(*)anti war.com
JJ & Auldheid
There are lots of things which people can find offensive. “Tragedy” by Steps is one I’d like to see punished under the Act.
I agree that the Law has given explicit guidance that songs and chants “deemed” offensive are now prosecutable. Yet the intended audience, football fans, were given no prescribed list of what would be deemed offensive. Hints were leaked that Frank Mulholland felt BOTOB and now, RoH, were songs in praise of terrorist organisations and could be successfully prosecuted. Despite Frank’s bold assertion, many Sheriffs disagreed and quashed the prosecution. Now one Sheriff has found in their favour ( I’d expect some political gong for that one after a decent interval), the bets are back on again.
I see that the Ibrox fans are getting similar treatment for a song called “Father’s advice”. It too seems, on cursory reading of the lyrics seen, a fairly harmless ditty, but references the YCV, a group later referenced by the UVF, seems enough to bring this into “praising terrorism” territory, in some weak minds. I am unconvinced. William Wallace was a rebel/terrorist to some, likewise Robert de Bruys and Bonnie Prince Charlie yet all have had their praises sung at Nationalist gatherings. Some rebels good; some rebels bad- is not a good starting point for a future state.
Now, we have seen the reluctance of the Officer, filmed in that You Tube clip, to specify what is offensive about RoH though he is willing to specify that it is that song which led to the request for the young man to “voluntarily” provide him with details. I strongly suspect that the police are just told what to lift for but not why. Maybe mickbhoy or some other serving or ex-serving Tims can tell us whether it is encouraged in the force to ask difficult questions or point out ambiguities in laws in order to seek guidance.
The secrecy and lack of clarity all serve to add to an air of “I can lift you and I don’t even need to tell you what for or why”. Critical though I have been of some police, I do not think they have asked for such leeway nor do I believe the SNP are comfortable with being seen as a draconian party.
This is all very snobbish. Football fans are targeted. Young men are largely targeted. It is easy to paint young men at football as an undesirable group, especially if it is just the two biggest (in terms of following) Glasgow clubs that are selected. That can play quite well with the uninformed and uninvolved.
I find it an insult to my intelligence but, more importantly, an insult to the intelligence of the SNP and it even manages to insult the intelligence of the police. After all, the most informed and intelligent voice, on the Justice Committee, against the proposed bill was Graeme Pearson, an ex-copper.
Winning captain
Can you put me on the list
Thanks
HH
Winning Captains
Thank you and honoured.
Timoot ( Singapore CSC )
DeniaBhoy in awe of wee Oscar’s Courage
14:32 on 10 October, 2013
Big Nan – Done.
…………………………………..
Many thanks DeniaBhoy
quickdraw
15:45 on 10 October, 2013
I’d say that he lumped himself with the rest when he made a sweeping generalisation about the Celtic support and referred to us as ‘them’.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh well international week guaranteed fall ooooots and flounces over things nothing to do with fitba :))
make sure it’s nooooo you csc
Bigshuggy 15.45, fair enough but Paddy was no Jinky
Jungle Jim, Kitalba…
I certainly don’t have any info on my view it’s just how I read it. I suppose it may be different depending on context…
gallowgate ms
“SNP Commit Scotland to sustainable 100% green energy…- check
Free education for students……………………………………- check
Creation of 125,000 apprenticeships…………”
They can commit to all they want. I’d ask them to add a date for me with every Super Model to their list, it still remains an intention rather than an achievement.
When Green Power proves inadequate for energy generation needs, will Alex command the waves to rise higher and blow more wind himself? Or will he be sensible and make rational decisions based on what is possible.
It’s Scotland’s Oil….. but it won’t cure diarrhoea
Things you can be arrested for in Scotland…
Pointing a stick
Singing a song
Holding a banner with a picture of a zombie on it
Things you will not be arrested for in Scotland
Defrauding the tax payer out of £100m
Not paying NI contributions for a year
Not paying VAT
Not paying bills..
HT
He may also be keeping those who employ him sweet.
Barca Fans vote Ovewhelmingly tae sign ..
Sammi???
Yep.. Sammi.
Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmmm!!
Would Ah sign Sammi?
Na.. Ah widnae.
Ah Tolerate Sammi.. Ah hivtae..fur Ah am a Celtic Fan.
But, it Ah wur looking fur a Player and Ah hid the Human Resources, at ma Beck and call.. that are Available tae Barca..
Ah wid soitenly no consider adding a Player ,such as Sammi… tae Ma Team Selection Cadre.
Na Folks..
Sammi, wull No be going Anywhere in January..
Ah am afraid we ur stuck wi’ him.
Kojo
Still,Laughin’
JungleJim:
I just wonder, and wonder, and wonder more, I wonder if silence is really the best we can ever wish for to nourish our children.
These are all easily googable, Latin just carries the weight of centuries of wisdom (or so some would have you believe):
gesta non verba
gloria filiorum patres
qui tacet consentire videtur ubi loqui debuit ac potuit
nolite te bastardes carborundorum
Every day is a school day
just learned this after reading ealier posts.
Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) was a prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last seven years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out–
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me–and there was no one left to speak for me.
———-
I really need to read more and exercise my brain before it is too late
yorkbhoy
16:14 on
10 October, 2013
Things you can be arrested for in Scotland…
Pointing a stick…………………………………………………………(WAS IT POISONED TIPPED?)
Singing a song………………………………………………………….IF OFFENSIVE
Holding a banner with a picture of a zombie on it…………..THROWN OUT
Things you will not be arrested for in Scotland
Defrauding the tax payer out of £100m…………….UK MATTER
Not paying NI contributions for a year……………..UK MATTER
Not paying VAT…………………………………………….UK MATTER
Not paying bills……………………………………………..UK MATTER
I can’t comment on Tony Watt’s fitness. What I do know is he scored a goal for Lierse within minutes of coming on. This was followed by the Lierse coach criticising his fitness. He scored again. Again, he came under fire for his apparent lack of fitness. Maybe he needs to spend lots of time running about like a maddie, not scoring, in order to escape criticism.
Last year, I wouldn’t say he was one of the best Celtic players, but his stats are better than Hooper’s (1 goal/assist per 99 minutes as opposed to Hooper’s 1 per 102). He didn’t get much opportunity, but whenever he did, he usually delivered in the form of goals or assists (something a striker is paid to do, right?). He was a far more effective player than Miku and Lassad, and better by far than, say, Rogic – still waiting for his mythical potential to take flight – Kayal, or Mcgeouch.
But, hey, his km per game and average jumping heights must have nose-dived from minute 50 onwards.
In A Nutshell.
“The S.N.P. are a Bunch o’ Communists.”
You want Scotland tae Labour under the Yoke of Communism?
Ah widnae think so.. But…
Case closed.
Kojo
Still, Still Laughin’
Philbhoy
Like Keevins, Walker, McCleod, Nicholas etc etc???
Hello
Winning Captains
Put me on the list please.
Cheers.
it still remains an intention rather than an achievement.
When Green Power proves inadequate for energy generation needs, will Alex command the waves to rise higher and blow more wind himself? Or will he be sensible and make rational decisions based on what is possible.
It is a reality – I’ve worked with the companies who are trying to get this working, and they are optimistic about it.
As for banging on about the SNP – there is no doubt the bill was a moment of madness, but for me, to come on this site and see unionist viewpoints being expressed, I feel compelled to defend the SNP position.
Not going to say anything more political today – needless to say everyone has a good point to make, unionist or not, and debate is very healthy.
What about sammi eh!?
yorkbhoy
Wearing a military uniform and joining in sectarian acts (allegedlly),
Holding a knife to someones throat on the TV screen then posting it on facebook……
ohhhhh silly me its just banter.
till later all
The SNP ‘communists’ (Kojo) or latent Nazis (leftclicktic). Which is it?
bournesouprecipe:
Bed for me mate, memento vivere.
Timoot:
Good to see you’re well.
up over goal
Derek Riordan was a devastating talent at Hibs. The best two footed striker of a ball in Scotland. He influenced many matches and scored the winner in a fair few.
His professional career was severely curtailed and potential grossly under-fulfilled because of the absence of good training habits.
A coach who is only interested in self promotion would play Tony Watt until he let him or himself down. A coach who is interested in making him a better player, to the benefit of his club and his own career, will do what coaches are doing now.
Communists? Shoor, Josie, Shoor. And some of them might no be Kafflicks either.
That UKIP is looking a bit pinko too.
setting free the bears:
I’m sorry mate… Derek Riordan has nobody to blame but himself. Ask Naka.
setting free the bears
Agreed, but my point was that there is an over-emphasis on fitness as opposed to skill and effectiveness. If we’re not careful, we’ll end up churning out rugby players who can run through a brick wall to get to the by-line, but without an ounce of footballing instinct.
There’s also been a rush to condemn Tony Watt based on inference and leaks, rather than what we as fans have seen with our own eyes.
Playing for Hibs against ICT, or Motherwell, or Aberdeen, is totally different from playing for Celtic against ICT, or Motherwell, or Aberdeen. Even the MIB, regardless of the players, see it that way.
I see the SMSM are now preparing the ground for their latest saviour, King, to take over. Can he actually be appointed? Wasn’t he a director when liquidation put them down? Mind you, rules and regulations, even the laws of the land, don’t really apply to them; so, I suppose he’ll find no problems coming back.
kitalba……Silence is many things but cowardice would be well down my list…..but then again when my better half is silent ,I do worry ….in fact as many on this board would throw there arms straight up in the air ,it is the most fearful of “sounds”.
btw in my head I am thinking aboot us all snoring away ! …….Braw