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POGMATHONYAHUN
Football’s Waterloo?
What concerned me was the way Madhun was allowing the sevco defenders to go through the ‘Well players from behind. Our players can expect no protection in games against them. Put your money on Madhun being the ref in the next game against Scotland’s newest team.
Football – that’s The name of the game.
its the ABBAABBAAB formula then if still equal ABABABABABAB……………….
embramike supporting Res 12 on 6th August 2017 1:06 pm
mike in toronto on 6th August 2017 1:36 pm
Chances are neither of you saw this earlier exchange on CQN about justifying a JR based on a post by Dexter P Bampot who set out basic requirements for a JR.
I think it sets out a better case than pursuing the 5 Way mainly because of what is actually known about the way the whole LNS Commission was set up and how it allowed the SFA to avoid them charging RFC with failing to act with the utmost good faith to member clubs. Now had that been included and evidence of it supplied to LNS (which all revolves around the provable dishonesty in 2005 the views of the FTT and what LNS did not do because he wasn’t asked but nevertheless proclaimed i.e that there was no question of no dishonesty) then there is a good case that relevant material was knowingly ignored never mind considered irrelevant.
MIT.
The thing is that its not me or the other Res12boys that Celtic would stand charged with not pursuing as they might, its the shareholders whom we represent that would be asking questions.
Now that number might have been small initially and has taken its time to grow but there are a lot more shareholders and supporters who are aware and as matters stand, if the update provided to them on CQN Magazine is correct, Celtic are facing evidence that RFC as a club showed the same dishonesty there as they did on ebts.
The JR is the focus because it impacts on Scottish football as a whole and there will be attempts to make it a Celtic v TRFC issue, but Res12 is still on the AGM agenda books and Celtic still have to respond to it. Celtic were advised to wait until after both the SC Decision was made and the CW trial was over because of what might emerge from both.
On the ebt/LNS there is to be some form of football enquiry and key to getting that right is its Terms of Reference, its structure and independence. Feedback from others who have spoken to Celtic is that this aspect is being pursued with vigour by the club.
Regarding Res12 the direct feedback was that the evidence in the shareholder update was being subject to close legal scrutiny and as that is what was suggested about 4 years ago then as things currently stand there is no reason to complain about what is now being done.
Finally and tying the point about RFC the club never facing the correct charges and licensing failure that BRTH posted earlier today on CQN is now up on SFM
https://www.sfm.scot/on-grounds-for-judicial-review/
Its a matter of digesting it all so happy reading. :)
==========================================
Original Point from
Dexter P. Bampot on 2nd August 2017 10:29 am
Different Counsel can reach different conclusions depending on- what information has been provided to them; what they have been asked to consider, and there own interpretation of the law/ precedent.
The opinion will remain privileged unless privilege is waived.
We do not know what body(ies) is(are) the subject of a potential JR- whether it is a JR of the SFA/SPL or the LNS commission.
However basic principles dictate that the findings of LNS could be quashed if, for example, same considered irrelevant or incorrect material or knowingly ignored relevant material. Similarly if the decision was one reached which no reasonable tribunal could have reached based on the evidence sane may be liable to JR.
=====================
Response from Auldheid
I think based on the SPFL response to a journo regarding the inclusion or exclusion of the wee tax case in the LNS Commission, that a matter considered irrelevant and so not properly examined was excluded. It was not just the lawfulness of the ebts that was left out but the omission of actual dishonesty, that was obvious from Rangers accepting, on QC advice , that RFC were liable to pay the tax owed under the DOS (wtc) scheme, the situation where they lied to HMRC about holding side letters for two players whilst at the same time (in Apr 2005 ) having 16 players on the books and another 13 who had left, all with side letters at the time of enquiry.
In the very act of passing the buck to the SPL to investigate the SFA avoided any charge under
Article 5
5. Obligations and Duties of Members
5.1 All members shall:-
(a) observe the principles of loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship in accordance with the rules of fair play
(b) be subject to and shall comply with:-
(i) these Articles;
(ii) the Judicial Panel Protocol;
(iii) the Challenge Cup Competition Rules;
(iv) the Registration Procedures;
(v) International Match Calendar;
(vi) Club Licensing Procedures; and
(vii) any statutes, regulations, directives, codes, decisions promulgated by the Board, the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board, the Judicial Panel, a Committee or sub-committee, FIFA, UEFA or the Court of Arbitration for Sport;
(c) recognise and submit to the jurisdiction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport as specified in the relevant provisions of the FIFA Statutes and the UEFA Statutes;
(d) respect the Laws of the Game;
(e) refrain from engaging in any activity, practice or conduct which would constitute an offence under sections 1, 2 or 6 of the Bribery Act 2010; and
(f) behave towards the Scottish FA and other members with the utmost good faith.
Specifically a) and particularly f).
It has always bemused me why the Judicial Panel charged CW of bringing the game into disrepute for a number of reasons including non payment of PAYE and VAT but not non payment and failure to meet his undertaking to pay the wtc bill.
Further in the JP charge sheet Art 5.1 a gets a mention amongst a list but 5.1.a)and f) do not appear in the actual charges themselves.
What this means is that CW was found guilty by the JP but Rangers as a club and SFA member have never been charged with breaches of 5.1a and f.
What the wtc shows is evidence of dishonesty, but it is but one example of which Res12 evidence is so full there is even a map of dishonesty which would suggest to a criminal court that there was
” previous” (as in behaviour.)
It is because dishonesty is denied, in fact LNS says there was no question of dishonesty, personal or corporate, regarding registration, in spite of it never been asked, that the attempts to put the matter to bed (which is what LNS appears to be an attempt at, have failed. The proper charge has been avoided but then again how could you allow any club with office bearers carrying that reputation into Scottish football, certainly without proper controls on it?
Ooops they just did.
==================================
Dexter
The SFA or SPL would arguably be liable to JR if they deliberately stymied LNS or were procedurally incorrect in establishing LNS or acted wholly unreasonably.
========================
Auldheid
See my first comment. Although it was an SPL Commission that was no excuse to avoid SFA Articles. Indeed in recent interviews that has been the SPFL defence – as in that was not our job.
=============================
Dexter
I should also add that the JR court would also look to whether any alternative remedy was open to the Applicant. I don’t know if UEFA or FIFA or CAS may have been approached.
========================
Auldheid
It was my view from the off that the SFA should have been the commissioners (it was their registration witness that swung things) and CAS the court of appeal.
I don’t know why they pay thousands for lawyers – we just made the case fur nuthin!
http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/a-judicial-review-of-the-lord-nimmo-smith-commission/comment-page-11/#comment-3097738
Apparently Courtois said to Conte “Take A Chance On Me” – a big mistake.
Correction: should read
that there was no question of dishonesty
I watched a programme recently about the difficulty in opening the tin of a Fray Bentos Pie. Well I opened the tin with no difficulty whatsoever and thought what’s all the fuss about? Then went on to burn the feckin thing. First time I’ve had one of those pies in years.
where’smywifewhenineedhercsc
Sheep 2-0
Is their any news on TV coverage of the games against Astana?
HUNDERBIRDS ARE GONE on 6TH AUGUST 2017 4:49 PM
Is their any news on TV coverage of the games against Astana?
BT Sport has TV rights for all Play Off Round ties so both legs will be on one of their channels
Didn’t watch the tribute act – should we be worried.
GENE on 6TH AUGUST 2017 5:00 PM
Didn’t watch the tribute act – should we be worried.
No
canamalar
Taken together the five way agreement, the SFA response to the Supreme Court decision (very limited chance of any complaint succeeding), and the ‘legal’ advice that ‘The SPFL has no power in law..’ leaves us with the present scenario in which Rangers FC is the same club with inherent honours, is not liable for any breach of the rules and as such no further discipinary action can be taken or needed, and is not liable for any of the £170 million debts listed in the most recent BDO creditors report. That is what we are supposed to accept after five years of legal process. The five way agreement is the result of three decision making bodies acting in concert, it was and is an affront, every detail of which must be made public. A primary focus on the LNS Commission will not , in my opinion achieve this.
GENE on 6TH AUGUST 2017 5:00 PM
Didn’t watch the tribute act – should we be worried.
Tribute act……no
Officials……….yes.
Gary / Glen
I’ll rest easy
Officials – more of the same on steroids
Auldheid
I think you and I will always agree on what should happen, but likely disagree on how that is best accomplished. But I think disagreement is okay.
However, as I have said before, you guys have pursued this doggedly, and conducted yourselves and treated everyone with courtesy and respect in doing so. Whatever the outcome, you guys have done yourselves and Celtic proud.
I am hoping to be back in Scotland in September. If I am, I hope that I will have the chance to buy you a beer, shake your hand and say thank you for the work you have put in.
Celtic Mac,
We are witnessing serious organised crime being perpetrated in public by individuals from two organisations whose responsibility is to enforce the rules. The rules are clear that what they done was wrong. These are multi million pound organisations operating and administering multimillion pounds of income and distribution of finances in a competitive market and they are the regulators.
The amount of money being handled here makes this serious organised crime and the LNS fades in significance if we break this down to fundamentals.
Canamalar
They accepted the acoounts of sevco without any problem , what you say might still be continuing.
My take on Sevco today:
Pretty much as bad as last season. Very slow in possession, lacking discipline in the middle, and toothless up front.
The only way they were going to score was from the spot, and Bobby Madhun duly obliged with the kind of decision you only see awarded to 2 clubs: Rangers and Sevco.
I think Alves will need to stay deep as he looks very slow. Herrera was like a plank of wood. Dorrans was ok first half, but anonymous till he was given the penalty. Jack anonymous. A couple of cameos from Windass aside, they just looked flat and only marginally better than Motherwell.
I’d thought they would comfortably get second – not so sure now. Reckon the Dons and maybe even Hibs could finish ahead of them.
Dessy…,
It’s clear to me that evolution will achieve nothing in this case, they need to be removed by the law.
Difficult to make predictions on the top 4 league places this season as , other than Celtic finishing top, the others may not be decided on playing ability. Not if today’s refereeing display is anything to go by.
Cowiebhoy
Looks like you went OTT with that post :-)
Mods at the ready
HH
Canamalar
Need The City of London Police, the mob here did not charge Whyte for a crime of non payment of PAYE and NIC which led to RFC 1872 administration, now how can senior cops miss something so obvious as that, oh I forgot the taped conversations that might implicate others.
Dorrans pen
Waghorn pen
As it used to say in Private Eye…Are they by any chance related????
HH Up the hoops
TET
Looks like you cannot criticise the despicable treatment / way Celtic like to act with their own fans
So is it CQN blog or do Celtic PLC now also run this ?
Cowiebhoy
There was nothing in your post that merited deletion, unless criting the club constitutes deletion nowadays.
They want total sanitisation of the support and it looks like they will stop at nothing to achieve it, bend over to appease the hun is the mantra.
Quite a sad state of affairs.
HH
MIT
Its a “you had to be there” thing which would take a book to explain and I’m still in the sun in September but the beer will keep. Thanks.
COWIEBHOY on 6TH AUGUST 2017 5:32 PM · EDIT
Only reason your post was deleted was for the use of one word, near the end of your post. The post in itself was fine and you are entitled to your opinion and criticism. Whether you spell a swear word correctly or not posts will be deleted.
Leeds fans are weird (no surprise there I guess).
Chanting their former manager’s name during the game (who left them 1 year into the job, despite a new contract offer, after finishing 7th in the league), while their new manager is winning 3-1 away.
Strange, unless I’m missing something.
See all this ” ABBA FORMAT” ….What fun we will have on here when some player called Fernando misses a vital kick ?
HH
Canalamar
EmbraMike
From the Five Way
(H) Sevco has applied for and has been admitted as an Associate Member of the SFL (defined below) subject always to Rule 16 of the SFL Rules and during season 2012/13 (at a minimum) shall play in the Third Division of the Scottish Football League.
(I) Dundee FC (defined below) will resign from membership of the SFL, its membership of the SFL will automatically terminate and Dundee FC will have transferred to it by RFC the one Share held by RFC and during season 2012/13 (at a minimum) shall play in the Scottish Premier League.
(J) The members of the SFL passed the SFL Resolution (defined below) on 13 July 2012.
(K) The SFA, the SPL, the SFL, RFC and Sevco have between and among each other agreed to give various undertakings and to contract as set out in this Agreement.
The decision to give NEWCO a place was a democratic one taken by the SFL about a fortnight before the Agreement was announced.
A bit of background at
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13065209.Rangers_will_play_in_Division_3__SFL_decides/
As a party to the 5 Way the SFL (as was) could not be accused of voting for the benefit of Newco or that in so doing the member clubs of the SFL lost out financially. Quite the reverse.
Not good grounds to take into a JR.
Note also K which brings all clubs into the agreement.
Auldheid,
It’s beyond JR it should be a criminal investigation.
MIKE IN TORONTO on 6TH AUGUST 2017 5:05 PM
let us know when you are heading over Mike…are you coming to Glasgow in September ?
If yes, happy to share a few beers.
HH
Does this sum up Police Scotland
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-40842261
RIP Arnold
Cowiebhoy … I read your post, but clearly missed the one word … could you let me know what it was, as I clearly need all the help I can get with this deletion thing. :)
Big Jimmy … I’ll post once dates are set, as I would like to put more faces to blog names, for sure
1. Celtic
2. Hibs
3. Aberdeen
4. St Johnstone
5. Ross County
First week of the season table, could be the final week as well :-)
Motherwell fixture today could easily be a bottom 6 feature at end of the season
Canamalar, if it did go to a criminal investigation the same people who carried out the investigation into Craig White might be tasked with this one too.
Chances of success might not be high.