Following yesterday’s article on the cosy relationship between the police and Scottish Government, who are alarming a remarkably wide range of society, a flurry of information has been passed back to me, including the following notes on the Integration of Scottish Criminal Justice Information Systems (ISCJIS) database. The First Minister has stonewalled requests to breakdown religiously aggravated crime, claiming the Crown Office have destroyed their records, but my source suggests the information is available for analysis in the ISCJIS database. I’m told:
“The material stored (in the ISCJIS database) ranges from simple conviction records, to DNA, and social status. The data is used primarily for presenting Criminal History in court cases, and in identifying suspects in criminal investigations. It is also used of course to measure the social impact of changes in Legislation and Enforcement Policy, as evidenced by the current furore. It will also be used to predict the impact of such changes, particularly as regards Equality and Diversity impacts, which is a statutory requirement of any proposed Legislation. You see, the ‘missing’ data is actually necessary in predicting the impact on Equality of the Offensive Behaviour Bill.”
“Essentially, if you want to know how many Section 74 Breach of the Peace convictions (Aggravation for Religious Prejudice) or even charges, there were at a given point in time in a given court, you simply search on the Breach of the Peace Conviction Code and add the modifier code ‘P’ indicating Religious Aggravation. All such offences are then returned, with full access (rights permitted) to the Reports and Case Notes.”
To assist the First Minister, below is information on what the enquiry form he has to complete looks like. This is a link to the operation manual and if he’s really stuck he can call the helpdesk on 0141-585 – 8333.
We can only speculate why the authorities are so reluctant to disclose information on, on a subject so close to their hearts.
Quick shout for the John Thomson Memorial Fund, which is benefiting from the sale of 60″ posters for the recent stage play, check them out on ebay.
OFFENCE AGGRAVATION
DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence that adds to the Offence Code by highlighting particular circumstances relating to the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
DATA ITEMS: Crime/Offence Aggravator.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field – Alpha or Zero.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 1 character long and consists of an alpha code, which identifies the Aggravation to the offence committed. It is possible that a charge can have a combination of up to 6 aggravations. An aggravation description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Aggravation code into text to specify the nature of the Aggravation.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS – maintained by Crown Office.
CODES: Over page:-
CODE Aggravation Inactive indicator
Anticipated activation date
0 No Aggravation
A Anti Social Behaviour
B Offending whilst on Bail
C Cancelled
D Domestic Abuse
E Disability
F Football
G Football Banning Order
H Harassment
I Harassment Order
J Connected to Serious Crime Y October 2010
K Offence against a child
OFFENCE MODIFIER DEFINITION: The code for a crime or offence which provides additional information for the specific incident as opposed to the actual charge.
PERMISSIBLE CHARACTER SET: Code field. Alpha, numeric.
RANGES/VALUES: The code field is 4 characters long and consists of an alphanumeric code, which identifies additional elements of the charge. The code will consist of an alphabetic character followed by 3 numeric characters. If no modifier exists, 4 0’s (zeroes) characters will be transferred. An Offence Modifier description may be held in a text field within individual systems and will be an automatic expansion of the Offence Modifier code into text to specify the nature of the Offence Modifier.
PRIMARY OWNERSHIP: ISCJIS maintained by Crown Office
CODES:- See offence modifier codes. The current
definitions are:-
A For Class A Drugs
B For Class B Drugs
C For Class C Drugs
W For Weapons
L Breach of undertaking
Y October 2010
N Sexual Orientation
O Sex Offenders Order
P Religious
R Racial
S Sexual
Q Transgender
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JJ
“1,607 is the “crowd” at St Johnstone.”
my god that is embarassing!!! Scottish football is dying on its a*se
but as long as they got the Timmys eh?
Offence but they don’t need to say what it is? Double secret probation! Board backed down. Never a good thing to do with the Bully Boys
Timjim
Fair enough mate, that I can understand.
Stairheed
Now that is a whole other argument buddy :)
Mick11
Were you suggesting I’m not a ‘real’ fan?
*Apologies for the bold (fenian) type in my last post*
1,607 at the match tonight
Seven Fishes Four Steaks says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:41
=====================
I remember that game.
Sept 1995 I think,
Utd were beeling because we did not return a throw in and scored thereafter.
Remember I took the family and mother to Blackpool the next day hence September.
HH
I will sign off for the evening the only way with something topical(Please scroll bye if you are offended by illicit chanting this is aimed mostly at any Hun lurkers) Oh ah up the Ra! Oh ah up the Ra!
God Bless Glasgow Celtic
The Hun media today their reportage of EUFa fines and
their unanimous verdict that a ‘seething’ Celtic board were
ruminating over a decision to appeal were in classic Hun
avoidance tactical foreplay the motherload of worked prosaic
genius they shall in the last few days of the year be expected to
muster in defence the sectarian filth from the visiting orcs and
their need to downplay the neutered goalmouth virility a croatian
diver his part in Sallys’s ultimate downfall and his subsequent departure
for mere sweeties despite implored and hunupped valuations in the ‘funny papers’.
OrcsRfuds
Sone Aluko has offered to pay our fine. What a guy!
Forgive my cynical analysis
but, unhappily, its been borne out to be the correct approach too many times…
I have an ugly feelin we’re bein played here… For the record, BRTH’s post last night mirrored my view to the last full stop… these silly wee add-ons are an embarrassment, to both Celtic and the people they purport to support.
However, the events over the past year and a bit, reek of agenda. From the referee and SFA debacle last season, through the threats against NL, the Lenny/Moisty old firm game, the second old firm game where the hun chants were actually praised as generating a great atmosphere, the proposed new law, the “evening up”, the lost crime stats, the smashin of the “marxist and irish republican green brigade”, the new SPL rule.
I personally think the board have a difficult job in these circumstances, but unless they demand clarification – not just from EUFA – on what is considered illicit, and why, they’re job is going to become a helluva lot worse. I really hope that they haven’t played along with EUFA purely for an “I told you so” to the fans, because they’re inadvertently setting a precedent.
oglach UFB says:,
In reality the song is not even on the same planet when compared to the likes of Bik McFarlane singing ‘Marcella’ at Casement Park on the 25th Anniversary of the Hunger Strike.
I will not accept any attack or any attempt to criminalise republicanism from whatever source. However, stopping this little add-on does not detract from any of the noble principles of Irish republicanism.
Let’s move on, we have a league to win.
Árd Macha
Why is it that folk think the board are out to get the Green Brigade?
The Green Brigade are presumably guilty of the ra chant. Some folk seem to think there is an over all agenda to get rid of them regardless.
Why the heck is that? Someone please explain
Estadio says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:44
Tip of the day… Cobol disnae work no more
oglach UFB says:
13 December, 2011 at 19:26
Well said all this wringing of hands by the little Scotlanders in our support about singing a few Reb songs, why aren’t they so articulate and animated on the real issue – anti Irish anti Catholic bigots that infest Scotland. Oh yes and for the Uncle tim appeasement society (Chairman P Nevein) – our moto – Stop singing reb songs and we will be accepted in Scotland – why yes maasa i’s be a good Bhoy now i’s a promise.
And for all those who talk about the EPL – the EPL and England can take a long flying f**k – do we really want to play teams like Chelsea, Leeds etc with the baggage some of their support have. They make the H*n look like choir boys.
——————————————————————————-
I totally disagree with you. I am no little Scotlander. I speak with a broad Scottish accent but I feel Irish and consider myself to be Irish. It might be your opinion that the EPL ‘can take a long flying f**k’ but it is not the opinion of other Celtic supporters and there are thousands of us who would like to play in the EPL. I would love us to play Chelsea regularly because that would mean that we were playing among the big boys and it would also mean that we would be getting worldwide recognition on a regular basis. It would also mean that we would be getting access to the TV money that would enable Celtic to compete regularly at the very top level in Europe instead of sporadically as we do while still in the SPL.
I would also like to say that there are no supporters groups in England that make Rangers FC supporters look like choir boys.
However, if you feel that it’s much more important that you be allowed to chant and sing about ‘the RA’ at Celtic games than to allow Celtic to progress then go ahead and continue to impede the Club’s progress and damage its reputation.
Celtic are a football club. Take your politics elsewhere. I’m fed up playing in Scotland. I want the club to make inroads towards a move down south. Chanting about the IRA will stop us getting there.
Just logged in for the first time today from the wet, windy and windy location of Inverness where I am currently looking at the River Ness rapidly rising up it’s banks. I think I will ask to be moved up to the top floor tonight:-)
Great article Paul.
On the subject of the board using the UEFA decision to try and disband the GB, how would that work if we all became members of the GB?
Not sure if I could bounce around for 90 mins, but think they are being unfairly picked on.
Time to stand up Celtic and mr Bankier, our mute chairman.
HH
CRC
Estadio says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:44
I’m not a developer, though I dabble occasionally. You may be better off with Microsoft Visual Studio Express suite, which is free and I think includes the excellent SQL Express if you need a database backend.
It will also depend where you intend hosting and how much you want to spend. PHP, Apache and MySQL are the most common configurations for the average low cost host.
Rico
Palacio67, That Dundee Utd game was a scottish cup game so it couldnt have been September.
Just googled it there…… 10/03/96
Celtic 2-1 Dundee United
Goals: Coyle (29) 0-1; Van Hooijdonk (88) 1-1; Thom (89) 2-1
It was a QF
SffS
Mullet and Co says:
13 December, 2011 at 21:00
Further to my previous post. I do not want the board to get rid of the Green Brigade. They are generally excellent and an asset to the club. I want them to stop chanting about the IRA. They are very entertaining and inventive and create a brilliant atmosphere at games. They are an essential part of modern day Celtic but should remember that the Club’s reputation is precious and I’m confident that the Green Brigade will not do anything to sully that reputation.
Dont want to get involved in a songs debate but ArdMacha summed it up perfectly in his last post, last line.
Lets move on, we have a league to win
SffS
Are “illicit” songs and chants now illegal anywhere in Scotland?
Or only at football matches?
Can I listen to Irish Rebel Songs while watching watching St Mirren v Aberdeen on the telly without getting the jail?
Or can’t I listen to Irish Rebel songs in the privacy of my own home and with the telly off?
I do not sing illicit songs at CP.
As I work for myself, a period however short, as a guest of her majesty could be ruinous.
Help!
I would like the board to release a copy of the charges we faced and a copy of the judgement. They have no good reason not to do so.
I would also like to know in specific detail what the reasoning was for the former referee Eddie Smith to report us to the UEFA delegate.
Was he suggesting that there was a breach of the criminal law, or was he applying the standard set by Article 11 of UEFA’s discipinary regulations?
If the former why were there no arrests, if the latter, is that part of his role as match commander?
Enrico Dandolo
I think you have taken a message out of Auldheid’s post that I did not infer. Only Auldheid can clarify.
However I did find your work parable worrying. If the “astute” guys realised that only one guy was being targetted, I assume they felt management were right to target him, But management chose not to target him because they did not want to single him out. So, was he guilty of anything?
I can see no other message from that other than it is ok to punish a perpetrator’s acquaintances for his offence. I see no merit in that approach.
Anyways, if the benefit to Celtic is that ‘IRA” chanting disappears, do you think we are all in a win:win. I do not as I would read it as :-
First they’ll come for the IRA chants
Then they’ll target all political singing
Next it will be all that Irish tosh
And, then they’ll come for the tricolour
Ernie Lynch
I emailed Celtic and asked the same questions, no reply so far.
I will post the reply on here if I get one, so don’t hold your breath!
I also queried the suitability of those on the board to represent the club, me, and one or two other points not too subtly put.
We’ll see.
ht,
I saw a question of yours earlier, not read back to see any replies yet, will do, but till then,
What would we hope to achieve by appealing the UEFA illicit someting or other.
I would hope to achieve a full public apology from UEFA, heralded to the world.
UEFA are very well aware of scotland and its special status, UEFA recently yielded the politial argument when they capitulate on the poppy debate.
Their illicit/political behaviour rules lie in disarray.
The only opinion on offence to be considered are those involved, the opposition and host, all else are facilicties like the ref if you will, part of the pitch, if the ball hits its part of the game.
From what I understand the UEFA match observer was approached, if the UEFA match observer is not aware of any breech of rules, then only their own enquiries are valid and should be reported. Anyone approaching observers offering opinions must be considered hearsay, the only reportage on that issue is recording being approached and who made the approach.
The UEFA observer’s conduct is highly questionable that my friend is why I would appeal the decision.
hail hail
JimmyQuinnsBits says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:57
UEFA’s rules say that anything of a political nature is illicit.
As is ‘any other lack of order or discipline observed in the stadium area.’
So pay your money, sit down, shut up and do as your told.
Seven Fishes Four Steaks says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:41
Years ago i remember Dundee Utd winning 1-0 with an O Coyle pen. in the 90th min PVH equalise and in 91st min A Thom scored winner.
——————————————————–
The Temporary Stand went truly bananas that day. What a sight to behold.
Surely the finest moment for that august body of men and women.
Seven Fishes Four Steaks says:
13 December, 2011 at 21:05
=====================
We must have beat them in the league in Sept 95, either that or I am losing it…
I remember the wife being heavily pregnant and my son was born 17/12/95.
Can you check for any UTD result at CP around the end of 95?
HH
Estadio,
I will email you tomorrow. Find out what your looking for . I prefer using Linux based solutions due to a pathological hatred of Microsoft.
Enrico has given a good shout however. I did not know that was free.
For how long ??;-)
HH
Bsr,
I’ll be right behind you in the car park ! ;-)
HH
On a lighter note…
Back from my kid’s school Xmas nativity production.
I say ‘production’ and not plain old ‘play’because it was one of those well-indulged-teacher-ego affairs that last almost two bloody hours!
Highlight of a numbing evening was one of the wee heavenly choir of angels, resplendent in shimmering white gown, gold wings and halo, taking ill and being carried out under the arm of a burly female teacher, one hand clamped over the kid’s mouth to stop her vomiting all over the packed gym hall.
Right up the centre ailse she came, kid swinging to and fro giving it ‘mmmmmnnngh!’, parents ducking for cover. Unintentional hilarity.
I’m standing at the back and the school priest has been next to me the entire time. I couldn’t resist it – nudged him and said, ‘Hey father, there goes the Fallen Angel, eh?’
Don’t let them out seminary school with much of a sense of humour these days…
setting free the bears says:
13 December, 2011 at 21:09
Nonsense. They won’t come for ‘all that Irish tosh’ and they most certainly won’t come for the tricolour.
up_over_goal says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:37
Thought Stokes played well up front on his own in Rennes
canamalar
Were you in agreement when the huns were fined for sectarian singing in their game against PSV(?) mate?
From my skim reading of various posts on here today, is it the case that such ‘illicit’ singing can be purchased from those dens of iniquity HMV, Amazon and itunes.
If so, is there any desire amongst Celtic supporters, and a mechanism for, buying the ‘offending’ tune as a single (as they were called in my day) and therefore propelling it into the ‘hit parade’?
Evening bhoys n ghirls
Just an update on the Movember fundraising that myself, DBBIA n guys from my work were doing. Thanks to the generous donations we received we raised over £2000 for Prostate Cancer.
Thanks to all who took part and donated.
Hail Hail
Paul67 etal.
There’s times in our lives that we have to say enough is enough.
If Celtic don’t fight this Euro Fine and get our good name back, then, what was all those years of being the good guys of football, worth,nothing absolutely nothing.We will be classed the same as Rangers, and Hearts, and that is something that I wouldn’t like at all.
At one stage we were exactly the same as Rangers,we would fight our corner,and throw as many bottles as them.it has been shown on telly that we were as bad as them often enough,I remember going down to Liverpool in 1966 for the European Cup Winners tie and Bobby Lennox scored a good goal which the ref said was offside,a goal that could have won us the tie.but we, the supporters, took that decision badly,and a hail of bottles were hurled from the back of the terracing that we were in, thousands of bottles,and not many reached the playing surface,they were hitting the kids who always were put down the front to see the game.So we were no angels in those days.
That game may have been a catalyst for us Celtic Supporters,we seemed to start cleaning up our act a bit,no known trouble in Lisbon the following year,big invasion of the park,but absolutely no trouble,and we gradually improved year on year after that,A few minor conflicts after that but nothing to write home about.
Now a noose has been placed around our necks,and the board accept the verdict without any semblance of a fight,it beggers belief,and they want us to follow them year on year,I’ve never complained about the Board before,but I certainly will complain from now on.The Board are a spineless lot,they accepted the Euro Verdict within hours of it being given.
There isn’t much that an individual can do,but I’ll do my bit by abstaining from watching Celtic until there is a turn around by Celtic on fighting this verdict,and as they seem to be a yellow livered bunch,I may never watch my team again.
I’ve went through the whole gambit of singing rebel songs,but I stopped when the first bomb went off.I only hope that others have the sense to stop singing about the IRA,I think Republican songs are fine,but we should lay off the add-ons,for there will be more fines along the way.
The Celtic Board have let the supporters down badly,it could be time for a change of Leadership.
Do not Vote for the SNP ever again.
ASonOfDan at 15:59
We are now part of the illicit/racist brigade according to UEFA…
I don’t think Legia Warsaw is good example of the illicit/racist brigade.
UEFA fined Legia for illicit, provocative banner .The night the game was played Legia Warsaw issued official statement where they said that Legia stadium is not the place for expressing political views and for provocative banners. They announced bans for supporters who prepared “Jihad Legia” banner. I read Jewish forums, heard the news in the media and none of the Israelis (the Jews) told that banner was racist, or particularly anti-Semitic.
Fans who shown that banner told in their statement that they knew Hapoel Tel Aviv was Israeli club. They knew that Hapoel have many fans who are Arabs, but not many who are the Jews. There are more Arabs in the squad of Hapoel than the Jews. According to that statement banner was not against Hapoel, the Jews or the Israelis and the meaning of that was “how dare somebody suggest….”. First meaning of the word Jihad is hard work, not what we hear from the media now.
Now my view on that banner.
It was very stupid banner but not racist. Provocative, but not political. Illicit banner and UEFA were right for making decision about fine for our club.
None stadium is a place for provocative and political banners.
Estadio says:
13 December, 2011 at 20:44
In my experience, and I’m a php developer, you’re usually far better off just using a text editor either with or without an ftp client built in. I use html-kit by chami. It does do code completion etc but I tend to have stuff like that turned off.
In your position I’d pick a CMS say Joomla, Drupal or even WordPress and see which one already has free plug-ins that closely match your needs and then use and learn it. They’re all free and most decent hosting companies have them available as 1-click installs that sets up all the database connections etc for you.