Motherwell started the season as Scotland’s first laughingstock, losing home and away to Sligo Rovers (apologies for the unavoidable slight, Rovers). Their fragility was soon resolved with wins at St Mirren and Aberdeen, and home to Livingston, in their opening four league fixtures.
Since that win over Livi nine weeks ago, results dipped. Defeat at Kilmarnock, a home draw against Dundee United and a thrashing at home to Hearts last time out (although they comfortably disposed of Inverness in the League Cup during this spell), suggest a system very much in flux. Oh, how we’ve been there.
Steven Hammell was confirmed as permanent manager in August. He clearly has the backing of his players and brought a system that can bloody the nose of most teams in the league. I suspect, however, that the same system’s fragilities are now well know. Hearts soaked up waves of attacking play at Fir Park, before delivering three sucker punches without reply.
Ange Postecoglou will be desperate to get this game underway to put the debacle of Paisley behind him. The trip to Germany will also be on his mind, though I don’t expect anyone to be rested tomorrow. Ideally, we will secure the points early on and allow the manager to rest his captain and a few others. Some of the early brilliance we have seen in games from Celtic this season should be enough.
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I Googled and found Dumbarton Football Stadium and Petershill Park.
Hot Smoked 8.45pm
I “think” Camusbhoy was pointing out that Celtic fans go on about the 0-5 win at Love Street … when it was maybe called St Mirren Park
I could be incorrect … but that was my reading earlier
Nite all.
Early rise tomorrow.
HH
Brian
I’m assuming the queue isn’t early starters to see the queen lying in state so I’m thinking possibly AC Milan in season 68-69. I’m sure I got taken down to queue form those, possibly on a Sunday mormning.
Looking at the vehicles in the picture it looks later than the 60s
“JACKIEMAC on 30TH SEPTEMBER 2022 8:49 PM
bollix to that ernie – only one king billy👍”
At the moment but when Charlie pops his clogs, is William next in line?
GFTB on 30TH SEPTEMBER 2022 8:54 PM
Thanks. It seemed to stir a vague memory of a joke of that ilk.
Cheerio for now.
I’d say mid to late 80s
” GARYGILLESPIESHAMSTRING on 30TH SEPTEMBER 2022 9:00 PM
I’m assuming the queue isn’t early starters to see the queen lying in state ”
:-)))))
we’re not half of anything.
Scullybhoy
Missed the answer the other night for the goalkeeper who only played one game for Celtic.
Was it Eamonn McMahon?
Looking forward to seeing all the bhoys at cqn corner tomorrow. Wonderful. 👍
Fullname: Eamonn McMahon
Born: 16 Jan 1933
Died: 11 Feb 2009
Birthplace: Lurgan
Signed: 30 Dec 1953
Left: 14 May 1955 (free); 4 June 1955 (Glentoran)
Position: Goalkeeper
Debut: Celtic 1-1 Queen of the South, League, 16 Oct 1954
Irishman Eamon McMahon was signed by the Bhoys in December 1953 from a Gaelic Football background where he played for Clann na nGael (Lurgan) and Armagh.
McMahon had been part of the Armagh team which reached the 1953 All Ireland final and despite losing at Croke Park to Kerry by 0-13 to 1-6, Eamon made GAA history by being the first keeper to play in every round of the All Ireland without conceding a goal (a record that we believe still stands). This made him look a great prospect for the ‘association‘ game, and convinced Celtic’s Irish scout Peter O’Connor (Glenavon) that this was a man for Celtic
Brought to Parkhead as cover for George Hunter and Johnny Bonnar (who had sustained a collarbone injury), his first team debut came as a 21-year-old in goals as Celtic drew 1-1 in the league at Parkhead with Queen of the South. Eamon was preferred to Andrew Bell and got his start when Bonnar wrenched his arm in training during the previous week.
Despite avoiding defeat in his debut match, he was blamed for the visitors’ goal, and despite his natural ability his confidence suffered a knock:
“I advanced from goal as Black shot from the edge of the penalty box. I had the ball covered low down to my right. As I dived I got both hands to it but to my horror the ball squirmed from my grasp and wriggled over the line. I can still recall the banner headline in one of the Glasgow papers reading ‘Oh Eamon!’. As a young player I was devastated!”
Eamon McMahon quoted in ‘A-Z of the Celts’ book
He was to not play another first team match for Celtic, sadly, so he was never given a chance to rectify for any errors from his debut match.
He was released at the end of the season in May 1955 and went on to play for Glentoran, where he had more success (playing in the Irish Cup final in 1956).
Despite the lack of success at Celtic, his connection with the club continued in that he married the daughter of Alex Dowdell who was a long-term trainer & physio at the club.
He retired in 1960 from playing, and then moved into greyhound training, with one of his dogs (Alan’s Judy) winning the Irish St Ledger in 1991.
He passed away in 2009.
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Another very interesting story GG
I love the wee fact about never conceding a goal in the All Ireland games.
JOE you’ll love that Blog about Eamon McMahon courtesy of CELTIC WIKI
Eamonn
St.Stivs 8.03
Re the pic of the queue.i recall back in the day there was a cracking pic,taken from the other side of London Road of the Q for the AC Milan game in 1969. Yours is from Celtic Park looking out the way
HH
DalriadaBhoy on 27th September 2022 7:47 am
DALRIADABHOY
If you are about – I only got the answer to that picture question today!
https://www.thecelticwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Fdj_qZeXkAETCTK1.jpg
https://www.thecelticwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Fdkg1JqXoAA4Yfe1.jpg
Did anybody ever get around to answering the questions….
What car did Duke Santos drive in Oceans Eleven?
Why was Billy nicknamed Cesar and not Duke?
Hot Smoked, at the time the third team was Meadowbank, maybe a bit unfair as they changed there name to that of the stadium when they joined the league.
Scullybhoy
Interesting read.
A guy i worked beside told me about him over 20 years but I wasn’t sure if I was remembering the name correctly.
Happy Friday evening all!
This wee gem needs a little more airtime. The Fenian Record Player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFDDEtbMygI
Wits
Finn Harps 1 Shelbourne 1
:-)
HH
Gerrintaethum Celtic!!!!
Motherwell. Another bunch of hateful huns without the bus fare. J.E.McGrory put them in their place on several occasions.
Why was Billy McNeill called Cesar? Former Celtic captain has died aged 79
Phil HaighTuesday 23 Apr 2019 9:52 am
Celtic legend Billy McNeill has passed away at the age of 79 ‘surrounded by his family and love ones’.
The defender was the first British player ever to lift the European Cup, when he captained the legendary ‘Lisbon Lions’ side to victory over Inter Milan in 1967.
McNeill only ever played for one club, racking up nearly 800 appearances for Celtic in all competitions.
He also went on to manage the Bhoys twice, wininng 13 league titles with the club as player and manager.
The remarkable defender was known as ‘Cesar’ throughout his career, but this actually had nothing to do with comparing his leadership qualities to Julius Caesar.
Billy McNeill
The real reason behind the nickname is far more obscure, and shows how different the life of a footballer was in the 1960s to the present day.
When McNeill received an honorary degree at the University of Glasgow in 2008, Professor Richard Cogdell explained the reason behind his nickname.
‘Billy’s nickname is Cesar,’ said Cogdell. ‘However, this doesn’t come from any Roman connections, rather from a movie. In the original Ocean’s 11, the actor Cesar Romero drove the getaway car.
‘Billy McNeill was one of the few members of the Celtic team that had a car. How times have changed.’
Despite the innocuous reasoning behind the nickname, it really stuck, with McNeill’s autobiography entitled ‘Hail Cesar’.
Tributes have been pouring in, including from fellow Lisbon Lion Jim Craig who tweeted: ‘Heartbroken over the passing of my great friend and captain Billy McNeill.
‘A huge blow for the Celtic family but a devastating loss for Liz, Susan Libby Carol, Paula and Martyn. My thoughts and prayers are with them today.
‘RIP my friend.’
The King: Billy McNeill Remembered
https://twohundredpercent.net/billy-mcneill-remembered/
“We have no king, except Caesar.” This declaration appears in the Gospel read out at the Catholic Good Friday mass. And they have often made me think “Billy McNeill,” despite his nickname being “Cesar” (see below). This Good Friday was no different. And now that Celtic’s greatest captain, and one of Celtic’s finest players has passed away, the phrase will always make me think “Billy McNeill.”
Tributes have been paid to McNeill from all angles, which in itself is a testament to the man. From the right-wing Spectator magazine to comedian Frankie Boyle. And Scottish Television’s (STV’s) long-serving political editor Bernard Ponsonby said it best, at the end of his rightly much-lauded McNeill tribute: “Hyperbole can grip journalists and the word ‘legend’ is sometimes overused and misused. Not today. Not today.”
McNeill played 822 times for Celtic, between 1958 and 1975. But the McNeill statue on the approach to Celtic Park isn’t of an iconic action shot, although he provided an amount of them over those 17 years. It depicts instead McNeill lifting the European Cup, as captain of the Celtic team which became Britain’s first, and still Scotland’s only, European club champions in, as the song goes, “the heat of Lisbon” on 25th May 1967.
Almost every word in the dictionary has been written about Celtic’s evisceration of Milan’s Internazionale and their (in)famous ‘catenaccio’ (bolt-hole’) defence. I’ve written a fair few myself. Such was Celtic’s dominance, after a nervy opening, that it didn’t need to be any centre-half’s finest hour. However, without McNeill Celtic would not have been there at all.
In the quarter-finals, Celtic played Yugoslav champions Vojvodina, from the Serbian town of Novi Sad. It has been said that Vojvodina might have won the European Cup in a quiet year. Celtic only lost 1-0 in Novi Sad, a good result in those pre-away goals rule days when cross-continental travel was more tiring now, making home advantage considerable. But they only had Stevie Chalmers’ 60th-minute goal to show for 89 minutes’ attacking in Glasgow. And the tie seemed destined for a play-off in neutral Rotterdam.
Then Celtic won a late corner. Charlie Gallagher aimed it towards the six-yard line and McNeill climbed above the massed ranks to bullet-head home the winner, Vojvodina having time only to kick-off again before the final whistle went. Even though surviving footage is almost impossibly grainy, McNeiil’s power cut through the murk. And he effectively cut Celtic through to the ‘Big Cup’ that March night. McNeill, though, had done this sort of thing before.
He made his Celtic debut in August 1958, ten months after Celtic beat Rangers 7-1 in the League Cup final. Remarkably, it heralded nearly eight trophy-less years for Celtic. They threatened in that time, losing two Scottish Cup final replays and blowing a three-nil first-leg lead in 1964’s European Cup Winners’ Cup semi-final against MTK Budapest. There was a sprinkling of future Lisbon Lions among those sides. And McNeill became captain in 1963. But his disaffection with the club gave credence to rumours of a move to Spurs…until the appointment of John ‘Jock’ Stein as manager in early 1965 promised fulfilment for the nearly men.
That fulfilment seemed as just-out-of-reach as ever when Dunfermline Athletic went 2-1 up in 1965’s Scottish Cup final. Stein was a cup winner, though, inflicting one of those two replay defeats on Celtic in 1961, with…Dunfermline. His Celtic equalised. And with eight minutes left, McNeill parted the penalty box waves to head home the winner from Gallagher’s corner. And Celtic’s greatest era was began, with McNeill the captain and on-field leader and inspiration throughout.
I’d seen one still photograph of McNeill’s winner, long before I saw video footage of it. It was one of two oft-printed images from that era which suggested that the camera can sometimes lie. The other was of mercurial winger Jimmy Johnstone seemingly being kicked ten feet up in the air by a Dukla Prague defender in the 1967 semi-final first-leg at Celtic Park. Video footage of that incident simply shows Johnstone leaping and turning in the air to try to block down a Dukla defender’s clearance.
The McNeill pic was snapped from behind the goal, with a packed ‘Celtic’ end a semi-distant backdrop. McNeill towered so high that it seemed more as if he’d descended from the Gods, so high above a team-mate that he could have been stood on his back. Olympic high jump gold medals have been won for less prodigious-looking leaps. He couldn’t have been lifted higher from a rugby line-out. But, remarkably, video footage showed the camera was telling an astonishing truth
Stein later said things wouldn’t have “gone as well for Celtic had we not won this game.” And another picture telling that very tale has accompanied many of this week’s obituaries, McNeill being unsteadily held aloft with the Cup by team-mates, with a look of undiluted joy which surprises and delights coming from such an otherwise disciplined public face. Tom Campbell and Pat Woods’ magnificent Celtic history, ‘The Glory and the Dream,’ first published in 1987 for Celtic’s centenary season, noted that this picture was “for years after, the largest-framed photograph in (Stein’s) office at Celtic Park.”
McNeill scored in two Scottish Cup finals (including a deft right-foot volley against Hibernian in 1972). He also netted a brilliant header against Argentina’s Racing Club to give Celtic a 1-0 first-leg win in a World Club championship trilogy (two legs and a play-off defeat).
He won one European Cup tie, literally, on his own. In November 1969, Celtic drew 3-3 on aggregate with Eusebio-inspired Portuguese champions Benfica. And, rather than the neutral ground play-off which might have separated Celtic and Vojvodina, this tie, was decided by two tosses of a coin (away goals rule critics take note). McNeill called “heads” to win the toss to decide which captain made the actual toss (no…me neither) and called “heads” again to send Celtic through to the quarter-finals.
Rangers legend John Grieg noted in his moving tribute that McNeill was “too good-looking to be a centre-half.” Current Celtic boss Neil Lennon referred to him holding the European Cup aloft as “this Adonis in a green-and-white shirt and white shorts.” But more than good looks, goals and well-timed “heads,” McNeill made his legend as an imperious centre-half and leader of men, playing 29 times for Scotland, despite debuting in ‘Frank Haffey’s match,’ Scotland’s 9-3 gubbing by England at Wembley in 1961, when, as the sobriquet suggests, the (Celtic) goalkeeper took the blame.
His nickname became ‘Caesar,’ in tribute to his imperious leadership, though it was originally ‘Cesar,’ because actor Cesar Romero played a getaway car driver in the original 1960 “Ocean’s Eleven” film and McNeill was then one of the Celtic squad’s few car owners. And like true leaders, he transmitted his authority to team-mates. I often wondered when first learning of Celtic’s history how they could have been four-nil down to Partick Thistle after 37 minutes of October 1971’s League Cup final, with a player such as McNeill in the team The answer was simple. He wasn’t.
Celtic Mac on 30th September 2022 9:52 pm
Did anybody ever get around to answering the questions….
What car did Duke Santos drive in Oceans Eleven?
Why was Billy nicknamed Cesar and not Duke?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Don’t know if any of that helps – I think I read the same ideas in King Billy’s autobiography, but my memory is poor now and wasn’t even good to start with.
Aerial Views of Celtic Park
https://twitter.com/TheShamrock1888/status/1575056594458791936?t=100v7loYy6rNqxnAEcleFQ&s=19
HH
Celtic Mac
2 questions(don’t answer as am on my 4th dram)
Wiz it a ladar? :-)
And was Duke Santos a full back,centre hauf or mid?:-))
Hope all good mate.
HH
Bufflers and Boo Boos.
Whatever next.
Sorry,no telling with the deranged.
scullybhoy
Some good accounts there for which many thanks. The problem which I have with the story is that it is anecdotal not evidential, an explanation after the fact. It may well be that there are in fact two stories, one involving Duke Santos, and the other, which originates from the supporters, Celtic supporters. The second one is supported by the image of Billy in a Roman style amphitheatre in Lisbon in 1967.
There is a famous line in one of my favourite Westerns, ‘The Man who shot Liberty Valance’, from 1962, was shown on Film 4 on Wednesday there. It is open to different interpretations.
“When the Legend becomes fact, print the Legend”.
Directed of course by John Ford.
GFTB, you were correct in my original point, no one called it anything other than Love St
an tearmann
Good at this end, apart from the fact that it has became all but impossible to get tickets for Celtic games. A home League Cup tie would have done the trick.
Spoke to OldTim this morning, doing not too bad. His nephew and family are visiting Scotland from Australia in the next week or two so he is looking forward to that. Actually they are in Europe right now, in Switzerland.
Hope all is well, enjoy the match later on today!
Camusbhoy 12.15am
Cheers … I usually get things wrong :-)
Celtic Mac 12.16am
That’s good to read … BT had said the other week he has been struggling to get in touch with OldTim
Celtic Mac on 1st October 2022 12:03 am
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Good point, but I did come across this from Yogi, and it gives a fairly understandable development of the nickname.
=
JOHN ‘YOGI’ HUGHES is adamant on the point: “Billy McNeill is known to his Celtic mates as Caesar after the Roman Emperor.
“Yes, I am aware the nickname originally came from a Hollywood actor by the name of Cesar Romero. That was back in 1960 when a lot of the Celtic players went to see a Frank Sinatra movie called ‘Ocean’s Eleven’.
“The likes of Big Billy, Bertie Auld, Mike Jackson, Pat Crerand and John Colrain watched the film one afternoon at the Odeon in Glasgow city centre and all decided to take nicknames from the cast.
“Wee Bertie became ‘Sammy D’ after Sammy Davis Jnr who was a black actor and comedian. It’s not very politically correct these days, but Bertie used to have this dark growth and had to shave about twice a day.
“Mike Jackson became ‘Dino’ after Dean Martin, the actor and singer. Mike was a bit of a chanter who could hold a note or two, so he became ‘Dino’.
“There was a straight-faced comedian called Joey Bishop in the movie, too, and Pat Crerand was lumbered with ‘Joey’ for a while before he returned to Paddy.
“John Colrain was an under-rated centre-forward who was a massive fan of Sinatra who played the title role of Danny Ocean who was the leader of a gang who were planning to rob a Las Vegas casino. So, he became ‘Danny O’.
“And Cesar Romero was the driver of the getaway car. Billy was the only Celtic player with a car back then, so he did all the driving. Hence he picked up the moniker ‘Cesar’.
“But that morphed into ‘Caesar’ after the European Cup Final in Lisbon in 1967. Big Billy just looked so imperious as he held aloft that huge trophy in the Portuguese capital with sunshine streaming down.
Celticmac
Cheers for that post and reminder to call Oldtim.spoke to him a few months ago.Thats great relations are coming from oz,am sure that’ll be a great pep up.to him.
Re a ticket shout if your up,champs league are precious ,Dena29-legend of these pages sorted me!,league and anything else at home shout out,away games no chance.
Anyway Celticmac thanks for tinkling the head with mentioning Oldtim67 🤣with a few others watching Tom Rogic score the treble winning goal in Lisbon 17,in CR7 bar,Ronaldo buying us a drink,changing the music from oorohpoppybeats to rebs,was talking to a few about it as Delaneys rip was there too.:-)
Hail Hail
TB 11.58
Why give oxygen?
scullybhoy
Did he mention what car Duke Santos was driving?
GFTB
I’ll tell OldTim to give BT a bell.