Q. There will be 12 teams in the SPL next season. How many do you think stand to gain from the redistribution of income proposed by the Gang of 10?
A. 11.
Q. There will be 30 teams in the SFL next season. How many do you think stand to gain from the redistribution of income proposed by the Gang of 10?
A. 30.
Although TV and commercial money will be diluted, it is a sideshow compared to the real cash cow remaining in Scottish football, the gate money at Celtic Park. The Gang of 10 refused to exclude this option from their proposed change in voting rights.
A 20% share of gate money doesn’t have sufficient support from SPL clubs, too many losers. A 30% gate share only has one loser, everyone else wins, including the club who took 87 fans to a league game at Celtic Park last season.
This is nothing to do with Sevco, who are unlikely to pull a financially viable plan together (although the SPL and SFA are still trying). You’re being asked to open your wallets and pay for the upkeep of 42 stadiums, squads, boards of directors and kit men.
This is not a viable plan. It’s time for Scottish football to admit defeat. Sport has been subverted for over a decade to the point there is nothing left. We can keep Hampden and the national team going, but there is no viable league structure. The sooner we accept this and move on the better.
983 Comments- Pages:
- «
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- 5
- 6
- 7
- ...
- 26
- »
If Rangers are to be relegated, will the SPL redistribute prize money to every other team in the SPL. Assuming they were to have finished 12th, each other side should be in line for a bit of a windfall.
Mort
With rangers dead and buried they need Celtic and our supporters more than ever. Why would they go out their way to ensure we boycott them and Celtic go to war with them.
No offense to Paul67 but it will never happen.
Wish we would stop all this hysteria today, fairly ruining my good mood at 5 senior, 5 junior and 3 out of contract players showing up for training with Sevco5088 today.
Firstly I dont work for SKY or ESPN.
Sky and ESPN aren’t the problem with Scottish football, cancelling them may help alittle and make us feel as though we’re taking the fight to them, but it will achieve next to nothing.
There are many things wrong in our game, we will never fix them all in the few weeks we have left before the first league game, the main one is the people in charge and their exhun agenda.
The three stoogies ( ogilvie, doncaster, regan ) are the main problem right now.
ogilvie and doncaster are calling the shots with the patsy regan doing whatever he’s told.
There are also too many exhun apoligists who, if push came to shove, would knife their own club and support in the back if it benefitted the exhun.
The only weapon the real football fans have is ourselves.
The time for demo’s in the carparks is not faraway, I just hope its not to late.
The newtonewco demo’s planned for this weekend were cancelled too soon.
Sky and ESPN. Cancelled.
Not sure what else I can do at the moment.
HH
SIALF
Paul 67,
I am a bit confused as to where you are coming from with this one.
Surely we can easily circumvent via a membership scheme which replaces ST money , and a nominal ST price….it is even feasible that we could gain , if we get x% of the cash we spend at other club.
Any effort by SFA / SPL etc to impose a minimum / fixed gate price would break retail price maintenance legislation and would have those who tried to enforce it , in the very position banks are in ?
It is a hard world.
For a number of years, Celtic in collusion with one other club, have undemocratically ruled the SPL roost.
Others are now taking advantage of the other club’s plight to even things up.
I meant to say the other major loser in all of this would be hearts. With no rangers they will have crowds of about 14-18,000. They will not give all that money away either.
Celtic could sell a player tomorrow and that would more than make up for any shortfall made this year and our nearest competitor finished 31 points behind us last year. In the meantime … straight to the courts in Europe. That´s where Sion made a mistake.
Hail HAil
Mort on 28 June, 2012 at 16:17 said:
In that case the ideal is for them to be deemed to have been relegated, then liquidated, and for Newco still to be denied entry to anything above Div3
It is easy to blame others.
We are reaping what we have sown.
TopCorner
Which version of Firefox, Flash player and what operating system are you using ?
HAil Hail
Deloitte-Tongs have hired Mr John Brown,to advise Greegs the Bakers on their up and coming share flotation on The London Stock Exchange.The partnership will focus on advice for Pie Eaters and Steakbake Holders,to eventually try and own the ‘gaff.
ernie lynch on 28 June, 2012 at 16:11 said:
Despite appearances the chairmen of the other SPL clubs aren’t stupid and they will make sure that the change is worded in such a way that anti avoidance measures won’t work.
—
Ernie, I believe that Celtic decide how much to charge for a SB nothing to do with the Gang of ten. Also i doubt if they could interfere with a private company setting up a membership scheme. As I mentioned a benefit of membership of the scheme allows one to purchase a SB at a discount cost along with many other perks so it could not be considered as simply a vehicle to reduce SB revenue to the other clubs.
I am not an expert on business law but I do not think that the 10 can dictate how much Celtic charge for a SB as that would leave them vulnerable to having to increase their own to match Celtic’s. I am sure that if this were ever be considered that a lot of lawyers would make a great deal of money preventing it happening for a long time.
danso_1888 on 28 June, 2012 at 16:02 said:
paul67,
simple answer to all this celtic tell them no, what they gonna do expel us?
They expel us and where do we go,
Nobody else wants us and the rest of the SPL know it.
quonno on 28 June, 2012 at 16:20 said:
It is easy to blame others.
We are reaping what we have sown.
…………………………………………………….
Who has sown what, if you don’t mind me asking?
quonno on 28 June, 2012 at 16:23 said:
What have we sown? Explain what you mean please.
quonno
Why would they expel the only entity that will guarantee them money ?
Hail Hail
quonno
They have lost rangers and are on the brink, can they afford to lose us as well?
Take your time to come back with some doom & gloom hun pash…
RogueLeader
Apologies if im wrong but it would appear your comment on 28 June, 2012 at 15:23 was directed at me.
I suggest you watch this and check the author name
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHcIT9DbssI
Coincidental I am sure…. may as well have been sniff sniff
Its a shame to watch this site disintegrate before our very eyes
ASonOfDan
It will take a long time or be rhetoric fuelled or a character assassination type of response be rest assured
HAil Hail
Looking on the bright side, if SevCo are allowed back in now to Div 1, there’s a not insignificant chance that they’ll suffer another insolvency event this season anyway.
This year they were saved because D&P managed to keep them trading until the end of the season. If they go bust midseason they’re snookered.
In fact for me, that might be even funnier than seeing them start from Div3.
This plan is incredible, it is so stupid as to be unbelievable.
I thought when I first saw the BBC article they were pushing the get Newclub as high up the leagues as possible, said as much on here, I couldn’t believe they would try to shoehorn Zombie FC high up in the leagues
The SFA/SPL are taking the fans for fools.
I think refusing to go to any other ground, take no tickets for the Scottish cup or league Cup will be the most effective protest available. Sky Sports and ESPN as well.
If they want to treat us as a cash cow, turn off the milk so to speak.
We knew this would have many twist and turns before it was finished, but this is the stupidest yet.
Oglach,
Price maintenance is illegal. END OF.
You are right to suggest that lawyers may make money out of this , but not at Celtic’s expense, but at the expense of those who want to try and introduce it . Very deep pockets would be needed, as this wouldnt be a no win no fee job.
No registration. No league. No name. Nuthin’. Yet still they rant. Still they wield malign influence to float turds that somehow become golden facts. Still they slither around,making trouble,ruining days,leaving a bad taste and an even worse smell. Moribund,but still psychotic.
Will someone please just nuke ’em?
Paul67, am I right in assuming that if things go this way, they will never be punished for dual contracts? In other words cheating will happily be swept under the carpet?
Paul67 – good to see the articles are coming regularly – we need to keep everyone informed at the vanguard of this whole thing – ahead of the mass media so to speak. Well done.
One point though: As you described previously, Celtic is the only game in town. A viable business – built up in the late 90s, and although suffering in the current market conditions, it is robust compared to other SPL business, who are suffering more.
So – surely Celtic have the ability to ‘play hardball’. The Club can refuse to countenance handing over income from ticket sales etc, and see if the ‘gang of 10’ ‘SPL’ ‘SFA’ or whoever, feel up to a legal challenge. Celtic plc is a business – are we really going to consider handing over money to our competitors. Jointly negotiated deals (SKY ESPN IrnBru, Clydesdale whoever…) are oner thing. Supporters gate revenues are quite another. Would a court really uphold these proposed ‘rule changes’? They do after all prevent Celtic (or any other club) from operating freely in the marketplace. They are therefore by definition (a form of) restraint of trade.
Additionally – UEFA – if the Club was to appeal to UEFA – would the governing body not be duty bound to intervene? (Especially if the Club caused enough of a stink).
option 3 would be withdrawl from the League. A succession of friendly matches, challenge games etc – or even the threat of this – would suggest that the drawing board had to be revisited. No?
At the end of the day, 1% of the entire population of Scotland is inside Celtic park on SPL gameday. That is a lot of people, and many many more are out there wearing Celtic merchandise, and watching the team on TV. The Green Pound is a strong currency in football terms.
JonnyRambo – my point was not directed at any poster in particular, if it was believe me it would have been implicitly. I was merely pointing out a curious coincidence.
Over on FF they have discovered that Green told bomber that he would:
“turn this place in to dust if I wanted to. It’ll be a pile of rubble by the time I’m finished with it. And nobody’s got the balls to do anything about it”
They are going mental(ler than usual) and some serious cyber-threats are being made. Heading to his hotel and all sorts.
I hope he has security, or better still is not still in the country.
Paul67
If the CQN strategy is not to subscribe to ESPN why is there a link at the top of the page that takes you straight to the ESPN subscription website?
The agent of Michael Ciani has confirmed Celtic have made initial contact but there are also Italian teams interested in the player, one of them being Roma.
quonno on 28 June, 2012 at 16:23 said:
danso_1888 on 28 June, 2012 at 16:02 said:
paul67,
simple answer to all this celtic tell them no, what they gonna do expel us?
They expel us and where do we go,
Nobody else wants us and the rest of the SPL know it.
=
No Celtic FC + No Rangers 1872 = No full time football in Scotland – no Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts, etc etc and a big hello hello to the equivilant to the Icelandic league. All the big provincial clubs would go bust, some would dissapear and join Third lanark, Gretna and Rangers 1872. That is a fact and they also know it. The 10 will chance their arm and push Celtic as far as they can but they know they need us as much as we need them and a compromise will be agreed.
Thursday, 28 June 2012Bad Moon Rising
What’s worse in football than finding out one of the most successful teams in your league has essentially been cheating to attain a large part of that success? The answer is finding out the entire structure in which it exists actively seeks to keep it alive at the expense of every moral, rule and precedent in the game globally. This is my view of where we stand today.
When it became clear that this club, Rangers Football Club, had broken the boundaries of fair play both in a sporting and corporate sense alarm bells sounded around our wee nation. Rangers Football Club failed and will shortly begin the process of liquidating. A NewRangers owned by Sevco 5088 Ltd is currently treading water in order to keep alive an illusion that the old club exists. The viability of this new entity as a company is another debate entirely to what will follow here. There are better places within the online Scottish football community to explore this. They will attempt to continue to trade and play under the name Rangers Football Club. They have attempted to play in the same leagues too at the expense of a merit system that goes further back in Scottish football than even the old Rangers.
The alarm bells only got louder. What do we do with this NewRangers? With no answers apparently suitable for everyone within ‘the game’, a process began which is perceived to be a compromise. Who is compromising? The only person that will lose out is you, the regular football fan, who demands that what they pay to see within the white lines of a football pitch is true and fair.
The whole debacle is a series of dry technicalities that have to be explored and explained in order to form a view of what will happen, what might happen and what definitely won’t happen. If you didn’t know, every SPL club holds a share in the company that is the SPL. NewRangers have applied to the SPL for permission to receive the share that the OldRangers to this day holds. This would essentially mean that NewRangers takes OldRangers place in the SPL… playing with their strips, badge and name. This was predicted to happen for a long time and fans debated it and formed views way before they actually applied. In this time it became clear that fans of other SPL teams and even some from OldRangers felt this was beyond the pale for the ‘sporting integrity’ of the league. Suddenly the teams of the SPL who would decide whether to approve this share transfer were stuck in a dilemma, alienate almost all of their fans or kiss goodbye to future revenue which may destabilise your club. The natural course after rejection of this share transfer would be that another SFL1 team, either Dundee or Dunfermline, would take the place of OldRangers. NewRangers would then apply to the bottom rung of the SFL, Division 3, where a vacant space would then exist.
For a while it seemed like the chairmen and custodians of the SPL clubs were doing the right thing for the sporting integrity of the league. They seemed to be queuing up one after another to say no to NewRangers. A brave and bold message you would presume. It’s only brave and bold if you see it through. You should know there’s a bad moon on the rise. Plans to place Rangers in SFL1 instead of SFL3 have been in place long before these clubs started saying no and every one of them knew about it, because I did. This is not a compromise and it’s definitely not brave and bold, it’s a scandal. To publically state you don’t need NewRangers and seek goodwill from your fans is good PR. However doing this while behind the scenes constructing a situation which will sit just as badly with your fans as the proposal you claim to reject is cowardly. A dirty deal done behind a smokescreen of statements designed to appease us.
The plan is to set up a new league structure, the Scottish Professional Football League. This would be a merger of the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League. The idea is that it gives Scottish football a new start, fairer income distribution & more fluidity in movement between the top two divisions. A pyramid structure would then follow which could open the door to ambitious clubs lurking below the recognised league structures in Scotland. It all sounds good except it has one condition. The SFL have to accept the fact that NewRangers will leapfrog twenty of their members and start life as a brand new entity in the equivalent of SFL1. Dundee would be promoted and that would be that. The entire game sold out for a parachute payment and a playoff.
For this to happen clubs need to approve it. I don’t like predictions, if you get it wrong you look foolish and if you get it right you can’t gloat because you look foolish. However here is a prediction in the spirit of trying to inform you based on information I believe to be correct. SPL and SFL clubs will vote to approve the reconstruction proposals. You might be thinking… “Why are you saying that? Some SFL clubs have already come out saying they don’t want it. Why would SFL2 and SFL3 vote for this?” The plan is that the SPL would technically relegate OldRangers though a mechanism in the current handbooks and articles that is not yet clear to me. This means that SFL clubs would not even get to have a say or a vote on where Rangers would start in the SFL were it to happen, they would simply exist in SFL1. The SFL would be voting on the reconstruction proposals almost separate from the Rangers situation completely. Forced upon them and forced to act in a toxic situation.
League reconstruction is inevitable, it has been discussed within Scottish football for years and if it’s not agreed now then it will be agreed next year. The SFA have been actively trying to make it happen sooner rather than later for at least the last 8 months. The SFL and SPL have dragged their heels along the way, unable to agree on what they perceive to be key to an overhaul. If the SFL clubs vote now for reconstruction they will receive a bounty greater than they ever would have in more normal circumstances. Increased TV money payouts and a promotion playoff is the stuff SFL1 clubs’ dreams are made of. It truly is a magnificent carrot dangling in front of them. Not only that, the SPL hold all of the power in Scottish football.
Clubs from the SPL, including both those who have stayed silent and those who have publically said no, have made it clear to the SFL that their long term stability depends on NewRangers starting a rung below instead of three rungs below. If the SPL decide to set-up an SPL2 and invite NewRangers and any club which votes for the proposals they can do that. If they then want to close the door on the bottom of SPL2 they can do that too. Before you know it the SFL is the equivalent of the juniors. Everything is at stake for them. These aren’t pie in the sky proposals, these things are on the table, behind the statements you see which say “we don’t need Rangers”.
There are two spanners which can halt the machinery that proposes they be placed above their station. One is the previously mentioned viability of NewRangers and Sevco 5088. There are massive question marks about whether they will be in a position to compete anywhere next season. For my money the biggest hurdle to whether Rangers FC owned by Sevco are competing next year is themselves. Ibrox is rumoured to be on the brink of being sold to parties unknown, presumably they will seek to let it out for football activities but who knows? An urgent deadline is tomorrow when then SFA have demanded Sevco provide all the documentation required to decide on whether or not to approve the SFA membership transfer from OldRangers to this NewRangers. Only eleven players reported for their first training session after the Summer break and three of those were out of contract. It seems they are in limbo at the moment and work needs done there more than anywhere to ensure they can play.
The other spanner is you. That’s not an insult, one of the positive strands in recent weeks within the whole saga was the few blissful days when fans felt like they had a voice in Scottish football. For the first time that I can remember we had real power in deciding the direction our game was going. Clubs were saying no to NewRangers and it seemed like it was a direct consequence of fan opinion, campaigns, polls and reluctance to shell out money. You still have a voice. The BBC published the proposed plans in full and to the best of my knowledge it is not mischievous story planting by NewRangers, the SPL or anyone else, the proposals are real. If the backlash is strong enough then perhaps the custodians of our clubs and of the game itself will realise that this isn’t an option Scottish football can take. Time is running out in this respect and it’s important not to take for granted that any positive outcome for NewRangers will not happen simply because you don’t want it to.
NewRangers must go through the same processes any other new team would in order to compete in our game. Anything else is a scandal that validates over a decade of the worst corporate and sporting behaviour you could imagine from a football club. This is true whether they start in the SPL or the SFL1. Compromise is a great word to use when it’s not you that is compromising. Don’t let them tell you that’s what it is.
Posted by Fritz A. Grandold
Miki67:
That QOTSA song didnae cheer me up…but by strange coincidence it did remind me of a very happy memory. On the back of some perceived resemblance to Josh Homme I managed to bag a very beautiful posh burd in AdLib wan night…happy days!
Still don’t think I look like him right enough…but at least I managed to live the rock god lifestyle, vicariously yes, but still, it was a great night.
Does Green have to pay wages today,or tomorrow?
The Scotsman website is a broad church. fans of all clubs on there. the reaction to this “proposal” is fairly unanimous:
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/rangers-newco-to-play-in-division-one-report-1-2381430
No journalist’s name on the article. what a surprise.
We can easily protect our season ticket money with a membership sheme with a reduced price for a season ticket on that basis.
Price fixing is anti competitive and simply illegal, could never be enforced, so we should not worry about that one.
This is all still smoke and mirrors.
Come on the Italians tonight!
Hail Hail!
RobinBhoy
Paul
Do you now feel you and everyone else who said Celtic should say nothing publically are now looking like they’ve got a custard pie in the face from Celtic. Because there is NO WAY they didn’t know about this!
Horsey types-Hamilton having an inspection to see if tonight’s card gets the go ahead.