Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Neil Lennon has moved to defuse talk of a transfer rift with Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell.
The Parkhead boss says the champions have £6million to spend on a striker if necessary and wants to use it to inject some quality up front.
Amid suspicions the club won’t stretch to a deal for top target Steven Fletcher of Sunderland, however, Lennon says he is not making demands of Lawwell.
‘I don’t want it to seem as if I am putting all this pressure on the board to spend all these millions,’ said the Celtic boss. ‘I was asked: “Could we afford this type of player?”
Speaking out: Celtic boss Neil Lennon has denied he’s at loggerheads with chief executive Peter Lawwell
Side by side: Lennon and Lawwell at the club’s AGM in November
‘The answer is yes. But there is no rift between me and the board where I am saying: “You have got to give me the money to spend.”
‘Money is available and if we can get the right one in then we will do it.’
As well as Fletcher, Lennon is also looking at a raft of other strikers, with Leigh Griffiths of Wolves a more affordable £1m target.
Insisting he is working with Lawwell on new signings and not against him, the Northern Irishman says he has a good relationship with his chief executive.
‘I always have done, yeah, that’s not changed,’ said Lennon, who is preparing a £2m bid for Norwegian midfielder Stefan Johansen.
‘As chief executives and boards go, and compared to a lot of other clubs, the relationship is very healthy. You hear horror stories elsewhere, of course you do.
‘This time of month, for some managers, will be a lot more stressful than it will be for me.
Out of reach: Celtic can’t afford Sunderland striker Steven Fletcher
More realistic targets: Midfielder Stefan Johansen and Wolves striker Leigh Griffiths are on Lennon’s radar
‘We do want to enhance the squad. Now is the time to do it and I think everyone is onside with that.
That is what we are trying to do.’
Lennon, meanwhile, will ring the changes for Sunday night’s final of the Antalya Cup against Galatasaray, who beat Ajax 2-1 on Friday, after sending most of his senior players, including skipper Scott Brown, home to rest up.
‘The majority of the boys that played on Thursday are away,’ added Lennon. ‘I’ve told them to take a few days. I know what it’s like myself, it’s non stop.
‘Mentally and physically it fatigues you and we have had a couple of days training here.
‘Now they can go and get four or five days’ rest – which is really important going into the second half of the season.
Winter break: Lennon and Johan Mjallby in Antalya this week
‘They will be brought back in next week and for now I will work with the rest of the squad and the younger players and give them some experience.
‘I’m talking the ones that haven’t played that much, like Boeriggter, Balde, Pukki, Biton, Forrest, Matthews and the keeper Lukasz. The younger players will be available as well.’
Lennon also tipped Israeli midfielder Nir Biton to become a valuable player for the club after a slow start to life in Glasgow.
‘Nir did well the other night and I hope he can be a good player for us. He needs to come out of his shell a bit more. It’s nothing to do with his football, it’s his strength of personality.
‘He’s not a quiet one – we are just trying to encourage him to be more forceful on and off the field.’
The full Celtic squad fly home from Turkey on Monday after Sunday’s final, Lennon saying: ‘It’s been a good experience out here. The facilities are fantastic and I think we were right to take the option on coming here.
SCOTT BROWN didn’t need to see the goal to believe it.
The Celtic skipper was in the shower when Amido Balde curled an unstoppable shot into the net against Trabzonspor on Thursday night.
It was only after the game finished Broony learned how special the strike was from the big Portuguese hitman.
But while it may have stunned Hoops fans who’ve seen nothing from Balde to suggest he’s capable of that kind of thing, his captain has never doubted there’s a goalscorer in there pushing to get out.
It didn’t surprise him in the slightest that Balde had just scored a beauty.
It’s the same with Teemu Pukki, who was also impressive against the Turkish side, scoring with a 25-yard strike.
Brown has watched both players struggle to do themselves justice whenever they’ve been handed a chance.
But he insisted: “We all know inside the dressing room that these two boys have something to offer us. They show it in training day in, day out.
“At Lennoxtown, Teemu scores goals willy-nilly and he’s a joy to play with.
“Both of them managed to express themselves in the way they played against Trabzonspor and they did really well.
“I didn’t actually see Amido’s goal, I was in the shower. But I’m told it was superb and I’m not surprised by that.
“He does that and he also holds the ball and is strong, which is something we’ve been missing.
“I hope he can be the one who starts to do that for us.
“I saw Teemu’s goal and it was terrific. He likes to come off the front and link up with you, but he can also score.”
Balde and Pukki are two quiet lads — too quiet — but Brown reckons they can be a big noise at Celtic given the chance.
He added: “All of the lads have their own friends. Big Amido and Virgil van Dijk are very close and that is a big help to them.
“Teemu is close with a couple of the lads, too.
Hoops skipper Scott Brown knows Pukki and Balde are capable
P\PA:Press Association
“I know they are quite quiet off the pitch, but once they get onto the training pitch, they express themselves.
“We want them to keep doing that when they get their chances on the pitch.
“It’s good to have competition for places.
“We don’t have the biggest squad in the world and if we bring anyone in they’ll be welcomed. But the group is strong and close and that helps.”
Brown understands the strain of signing for Celtic and taking time to bed in.
He thinks back to when he arrived from Hibs and remembers a time when it was tough for him.
He added: “I’ve been here six and a half years and it took me three seasons to settle in. I’m still settling in now!
“But for foreign boys to come in and understand the club and the game in Scotland, it’s not always easy.
“It can be about adapting to playing on rough surfaces in the wind and the rain at times.
“Pitches are never the best at this time of year, so we have to be physically strong and willing to keep a 1-0 lead if we get it. It can be a different mindset playing for Celtic. Once you come and see the stadium and then 60,000 people in it, a lot of people don’t expect it.
“I’m sure Teemu and Amido had seen us before on Champions League nights, but you don’t really understand the pressures until you get here. They are incredible.
“But you want all your team-mates to do well because we are close.”
Brown has looked back to his best this season and been a driving force in Neil Lennon’s team, leading by example.
He’s got his boundless energy back after last season saw him play through the pain barrier far too often.
His injury problems took a toll, with the Scotland midfielder struggling badly with a hip injury which eventually saw him undergo surgery.
He never doubted he’d return to top form, but he’s now desperate to make up for lost time.
Broony was one of the players allowed to return home yesterday from the club’s training base in Turkey and ordered to rest up for the next few days.
But he is loving being able to play every week pain-free.
Brown added: “Just playing games and staying fit is helping me and getting a full season under my belt is really going to help in the long run.
“I was injured quite a lot last season, but I knew I’d come back fitter and stronger. I never had the slightest doubt.
“I’ve played 34 or 35 games this season already and also pre-season matches and friendlies. That will be more than I played the whole of last season.
“Last season I didn’t want to go for the operation until after the last-16 tie against Juventus because I really wanted to try and help the team into the last eight.
“Maybe I should have thought more about just having it earlier, but it’s done now and, touch wood, I’m feeling strong.”
CQN Saturday Naps Competition
Lads, for those who are in the CQN Saturday Naps competition, please go back and post today’s selection at the end of the previous article :
“Celtic long term land dividends”
All the best, fleagle1888
Bookies taken leave of their senses, or, me making an error of judgement?
Cardiff at 1/1 to beat West Ham?
Isn’t that just free money:-))
Good Morning Timland.
twist n turns…….levels you devils,looks too good to
be true,be careful!!!!
Wee question for you.
Looking at the coefficients and with only one win in the CL, we pick up 2 points for 1 win. I know we get 4 bonus points for CL participation, and a miserable 0.65 for “country participation”, giving us an overall haul of 6.65 for 2013/2014.
If you look at Spurs as an example, even though they miss out on 4 bonus points, their 6 wins in the EL gives them 12 points, plus they benefit from country participation with another 2.87 giving them ( so far) 14.87.
Is there an argument to say that over a few seasons, decent performances in the EL, would actually be our best avenue to shooting up the coefficient table and therefore in the longer term, give us a better seeding when we do play in the CL?
I understand the obvious drawback of less money coming in for a few seasons, but longer term, would it help us?
Valentines
Does seem a bit generous on current West Ham form!
twists n turns…….think the price reflects the recent upheaval
at Cardiff,the bookies will know what’s going on behind closed
doors,that you can be sure.
Twists n turns 7 01
You make a good point ref EC.
The ultimate is a good competitive Champs group and then pushing to qtr or semi in Europa.
This gives us TV revenue and exposure and some big and meaningful games into April.
For me our best season was 2003/4 with a league win and Europa qtr after beating barca and enjoying CL group with Byern Lyon and Anderlecht. 2 pre qualifiers for CL too. So a total of 8 euro trips. 16 games and lots of co efficient points and exposure for Celtic.
Valentines
Upheaval for sure, but normally a new manager gets a bit extra from his players, and they’ve had some good home performances this season. Fingers crossed.
Burnley
Thanks for the response.
Yes that would be a vg outcome. Lots of points and decent revenue.
Valentines
I’m also tempted to try Cardiff minus a goal at 13/5.
Tried a speculative tenner treble to win £190.
Spurs
Cardiff
Arsenal
All minus a goal.
FFS, is this a moonhowling site or a gamblers’ forum? I’m off, and will not return for at least ten minutes !
Good morning friends from a dry, clear skied and slightly frosty East Kilbride.
Hoping to do my ParkRun for the first time since 23 November when I picked up a wee muscle injury in the ole buttock. Only managed a couple of short runs since so hopefully I don’t make an r’s of myself this morning. Anyway it’ll stop my constant dwelling on our upcoming European final tomorrow afternoon.
twists n turns………good luck, hope your punt stoats.
FFM – I’m the only conspiracy theorist in the village)
07:52 on
11 January, 2014
FFS, is this a moonhowling site or a gamblers’ forum? I’m off, and will not return for at least ten minutes !
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Bet your back in 5.
I’ve backed FFM to be back in 10 minutes minus a minute.
Ffm
Surely the definitive reading of that song was by Matthew Butler on TISWAS ? I’d post the link if I knew how to.
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Jobo
I’ve been in and out hospital for 3 months. Couldn’t run or even walk properly till yesterday. Set off up the long mynd yesterday full of trepidation. Done a hill climb plus ran for a 2 mile section and was pleasantly surprised at how well I did. Covered about 8 or 9 miles. Leg a little tender this morning but generally very happy with things. Gonna do an easy 5 mile on the flat at 11am.
Jimbo
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=elkCXVp_BqU&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DelkCXVp_BqU
Neil is one of us through and through. The Celtic boss job is a dream come true
He has a similar problem to another Celtic great in billy McNeil
He also was in a dream job. And he also did of want to rock the boat
Look what happened to poor billy
Abuse from the stands at tanadice in 1990 as he came off the park after another poor showing. Plus he had just written in the sun the week before that Celtic could not compete with the deid club
Neil I think realises that now and must now change his ways and put his foot down
He has been frustrated over last few years. No spin
Keep at it Neil. Demand the vic money which is untouched and used for AGM balance sheet when it should have been used for team on the park
Twists n Turns
That is what I call service! Awwwww! Is is a dream?
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Jimbo
Posting links is very easy. Simply open a new window and the clip you want to link. For example a goal, or song, When you have the link open, if you go to the address bar / browser at the top of your page, and highlight it by either right clicking on a PC, or just holding your finger on it on an ipad, and select “copy”, then go to cqn for example and same again, either right click or just push your finger on the area where we write our new posts, and select ” paste”, that’s it.
valentinesday
07:57 on 11 January, 2014
FFM – I’m the only conspiracy theorist in the village)
07:52 on
11 January, 2014
FFS, is this a moonhowling site or a gamblers’ forum? I’m off, and will not return for at least ten minutes !
“”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
Bet your back in 5.
twists n turns
07:59 on 11 January, 2014
I’ve backed FFM to be back in 10 minutes minus a minute.
————————————–
Lol too funny!! :)
16 roads
Not that funny, I lost!
twists n turns @ 8:03 –
can’t beat easing yourself back in gently. If I complete the 5K this morning I’ll be delighted. If I do so in under 24 minutes I’ll reqrd myself with an extra roll on sausage to celebrate!
I run because I am able to. never know what tomorrow may bring and all that.
Oh and like the look of your treble, might just do the same *searches down back of sofa for another 50p*
twists n turns –
I see the Arsenal game isn’t till Monday evening so I’ve just gone with the other 2 at combined odds of 9/1. Should cover my pakora for tonight.
Jobo
Geez, I thought Arsenal was a Sunday game. Oh well. Can you lend me 190 bucks till Monday please?
twists n turns
08:19 on 11 January, 2014
—————————–
I knew you would mate.
FFM can be volatile,ye probably won’t hear from him for about another three weeks.
Maybe he realised it was nearly 8 in the morning when he demanded that return to the nightshift,either that or he’s over in America.
Good luck with the punting.
Slan.
Must run ;-)
From TSFM
GoosyGoosy on January 10, 2014 at 7:43 pm
38 0 Rate This
Nope
All the glee about the falling share price is misplaced
Its simply another stage in the scam to get the Spiv ownership above 75% so they can issue freebie shares to their pals and dilute the holding of the remaining 25%
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
This is a company owned by Spivs and run by Spivs
Spivs have as much or perhaps more experience in running down a share price than they do in asset stripping
All we are seeing in the market is an attempt to panic the gullible into selling their tiny individual holdings for fear of losing the lot
And its really simple to do
In a nutshell
Two spivs agree to rotate ownership of similar holdings which they each own
One Spiv sells his holding to another Spiv and around the same time buys the same number of shares at the same price
This “same price” just happens to be lower than the current price on offer in the market
The transactions are dressed up as a series of share trades which just happen to add up to more or less the same total
This shakes the tree and deceives the genuine punter into thinking there must be a good business reason for the sp to fall
,,,,,,,,,,
If enough freebie shares are issued by the Spiv Board(Say10m) the price can plummet to 5p and they are still well in profit
Revealed: TV comic Limmy’s Twitter troll brother has history of hurling abuse at women
11 January 2014 07:32 AM By John Ferguson
LIMOND, jailed this week for bigoted online vendetta against female journalist, broadcast a vicious rant against another woman.
David Limond is brother of Limmy
VILE twitter troll David Limond has a track record of hurling sick abuse at women, the Daily Record can reveal.
David Limond, brother of TV comedy star Brian Limond, was jailed for six months on Thursday for a bigoted online vendetta against young female journalist Angela Haggerty.
He has previous form for picking on women, having broadcast a tirade of abuse against another woman in an online radio rant.
Limond, brother of TV comedy star Limmy, targeted American Susan Cook calling her a “f*****g horrible little piece of s**t”.
The rant, which he then uploaded to the internet, appears to have come after Limond, 41, had a relationship with Mrs Cook’s daughter Tina, during which he moved into her house in the US for two months.
During the recording, made two years ago, a friend of Limond’s pretends he is an FBI agent probing a bogus sex video involving Tina.
The friend cruelly baits the elderly sounding woman with sick comments about her daughter before Limond shouts: “What a disgraceful way to talk about your daughter. What a disgraceful piece of s**t you are.”
Angela Haggerty
Baffled Susan replies: “I’m having a hard time understanding you.”
But Limond adds: “I’m sure you are, you f*****g horrible little f*****g piece of s**t.”
Limond was jailed this week for targeting Angela, 27, after she edited a book charting the financial demise of Rangers.
He called her “Taig of the day”, encouraged listeners to abuse her on Twitter and used an offensive word to describe Irish Catholics.
Limond was found guilty of religiously aggravated breach of the peace.
Ayr Sheriff Court heard the comments against Angela were made on his unofficial Rangers podcast in September 2012.
After sentencing, Angela said she was “very happy and relieved” that the case had been concluded.
She added: “I don’t think Mr Limond had any idea of the fear and panic I went through.
“Mr Limond referred to me as “Taig of the day”.
I am glad the court saw that this was simultaneously a racist and sectarian comment.”
Twists n Turns
Thanks.
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Jobo Baldie,
Could do with some advice on the running sometime when you’ve a minute.
A 52 yo, 6ft, 14.5 stone (2 stone overweight) I was doing a 5k once or twice a week from the house on my own, but never got it down below 33 mins. Last time some time in Oct / Nov.
Any advice appreciated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVPaA85kq
Just caught up there.
I’ve no Ian Black, so it was a fair bet amongst you all, honest !
Jimbo,
What’s the song by Matthew Butler you refer to, am lost there (you have to remember, Moonhowling comes with no guarantees of recollection – similar to such times as when it’s your round in O’Neills during BMCUW-organised Hootenannays, where you remember every Celtic statistic and historical fact since the Club’s beginnings, but forget whose round it is, then suddenly remember you have to leave)
16 Roads @ 08:28,
You know me too well :))
I did indeed feel the heart sink at the lack of howling until looking at the clock saying 8:30am – that has happened to me several times.
And there was me thinkin Volatile was an evil Eastern European descendent of Count Dracula, coming over here to steal all our jobs :)
I’m off to America to work….
iPaddy
Your link won’t play.
Is it Last Night at the Proms?!