Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Is it me!?!?!?
Tommy Burns is the last one
Goodnight guys, off to curl up with a good book.
ANSWER Q 8
Phil O’Donnell
Mark McNally
Rudi Vata
Gordon Marshall
Simon Donnelly
Paul McStay
Brian McLaughlin ( is to the right of The Maestro, but was too wee to get in the picture).
Packie Bonner
Brian O’Neil
Willie Falconer
Pierre Van Hooijdonk
Sorry guys :-)
BCW
That’s a sneaky one my son!
Peter Grant
BCW, HAHAHAHAH, too wee to get in!
And he is holding the silver platter!
Nice one B-C-W, very good. Wee Brian had his day in the sun, eh?
Good one BCW.
BIG-CUP-WINNERS
23:22 on
Ya sneakie bassa
I am assuming I did not win so am off to my bed in the huff.
Cheers for the quiz BCW – good fun on a miserable Friday night here in Oslo.
Night night all, god bless and HH.
Jeg er Neil Lennon-Greeninbingley
Scores just coming up mate.
Wee cus away doon the road, I need to talk tae the wife.
God bless and good night.
Pending the final scores, thanks again to Thebhoyfromoz for the Cadete clip, and Big Cup Winners – thanks, great fun, nothing like a wee bit of Celtic nostalgia, Hail Hail
1st – kayal 33 – 57 points !
2nd field of dreams – 55 points
3rd can I have raspberries – 53 points
4th Burgh Bhoy – 50 points
5th Eddie in Kirkmichael – 49
6th Jeg er Neil Lennon-Greeninbingley – 41 points
7th Doc – 37 points
8th viewfaethewindae – 36 points
Well Done to all and thanks for competing !!
fieldofdrams
23:35 on
Dito, thanks
And by the way my wife says ‘Can he not post some general knowledge question.s so we can take part together’. Bless!
Thanks BCW
BCW, still no official like!:-)
Well done Kayal33, and thanks BCW.
5th, what a result. I’m over the moon at that yahooooooooooooooooo
Eddieinkirkmichael
Delighted the Turks won, but just could not see it after watching the first half.
Didn’t bet them…..had Aberdeen 1-0 in a double with Leicester 4-1.
Will check scores tomorrow !
Raging with my second half performance!!!
Many thanks Big Cup Winners for a great quiz.
Ps on the 5-0 Aberdeen clip, did anyone notice the soor puss on Dallas after Jorge’s goal, looked like he was about to boak!!!
It’s friday night FFS,
and
I’m going off the rails on a crazy train
MORE than £16 million has been wiped off Rangers’ value on the stock market in the last four months amid a battle for power in the Ibrox boardroom.
Fans have seen their shares lose almost half their value since September and the latest figures suggest continuing concerns among investors over the way the Scottish League One club is being run.
Rangers International Football Club (RIFC) shares closed at 31p yesterday, after reaching 30.4p at one point. That price was down 44.5% from the 55p reached in September at the height of shareholder disquiet over the administration of the club. The market value of RIFC has dipped from £35.8m to finish yesterday at its lowest in its first year, at £19.9m.
The slump has wiped more than 50% off the value of holdings of fans and investors who bought into a share issue in December 2012, when they were on offer for 70p.
The Rangers board won their power struggle against a group seeking change, led by former director Paul Murray.
Fans believe the only people to gain are past and present executives who managed to get shares for 1p. Former chief executive Charles Green purchased five million shares in Rangers at 1p each as part of an agreement entered into on October 31, 2012.
Drew Roberton, of the Rangers Supporters’ Association, said the continuing share decline raised continuing concerns about the financial state of the club.
“It is worrying,” he said. “The devil in me says, well, that tells the investors that you reap what you sow by backing the board.
“It’s perhaps time for all those people who supposedly care so much about the club to put their hands in their pockets and get control of the club that way.
“I would not like to think that, as some people fear, we are heading to another insolvency event.”
Chief executive Graham Wallace indicated that the club was entering a prolonged period of austerity at December’s AGM when he, current chairman David Somers, under-fire finance director Brian Stockbridge and three directors were re-elected. The four so-called requisitioners – former Rangers oldco director Paul Murr-ay, former chairman Malcolm Murray, Alex Wilson and Scott Murdoch – all polled close to 30% of votes to scupper their hopes.
But despite a mandate from shareholders, the fall-out from the meeting had Rangers supporters and fans’ representatives talking about boycotts and refusing to renew season tickets.
Rangers declined to comment.
Didn’t I keep telling you Fholks there was no way £22m was raised…….the one’s with 1p shares are going to make a killing by selling their shares for circa 25 p each to Property Developers who will then simply sell the assets….dooo doooo…..watch this space
bigshuggy
23:40 on 10 January, 2014
Eddieinkirkmichael
Delighted the Turks won, but just could not see it after watching the first half.
Didn’t bet them…..had Aberdeen 1-0 in a double with Leicester 4-1.
Will check scores tomorrow !
You’re in for a pleasent surprise in the morning
Oh and well done Kayal33, a great score
8th viewfaethewindae – 36 points if only I’d posted the English goalkeepers rather than watch the Aberdeen game.
Back to the conversation wae the wife.
Night night.
Burghbhoy
23:43 on
10 January, 2014
Oh and well done Kayal33, a great score
You ain’t kidding mate………..I had a wee tie-breaker question on hand but didn’t need it he nearly beat me and I had the answers…….
1st – kayal 33 – 57 points !
Well done
the big black dog strikes again – RIP
From rm
minstral, on 10 January 2014 – 09:19 AM, said:
“Some of our support should hang their heads in shame, at the damage they have brought to our club. They love their own ego more than they love the club.”
“Hear f’n hear” …………(hahahahahahahahahahahahaha…..I he’ll blame the caflick schools)
Night Bhoys, gonnae be up at the crack of dawn the morra . Ma wee lassies 7th birthday.
Thanks again BCW and all who took part in the quiz
Hail Hail
It might get Loud…
Ritchie…Stargazer!
Ritchie Blackmore….that’l do me
nice one RRC.
Greenpinata
I have not only heard the programme I have sat in the wee studio and even contributed to it in a former life.
Just as on the odd ocassion I have looked through the sun or record.
It does not by my reckoning make me a ‘record reader or sun reader’ or a scoreboard listener.
I would far prefer other mediums 99.99% of the time.
It doesn’t alter the fact that the audience who are taken in by this phone in drivel are the sand record and sun reading audience.
Sadly the chap Keevins seems to do well at his job of winding up the punters to tune in as he flogs a dead horse very well.
eddieinkirkmichael
22:38 on 10 January, 2014
Can I Have Raspberry On That Champions League Ice Cream
22:34 on
I went with my eldest daughter(GRHS) and my brother and his son. we met a couple of young filly’s on the train home but had to decline their advances. I wonder what would have happened if we didn’t have the kids with us lol
Lorna has a lot to explain for. Have had a great night CQN in the CQN style.
HH
Guess what,
Nothing Else Matters