Today we have a guest writer, Archie Macpherson, Scotland’s most celebrated broadcaster. Archie started broadcasting for the BBC in the 1960s and was the authoritative voice of football commentaries, and comment, for decades thereafter. He was co-commentator for our first European Cup win and remains a regular newspaper columnist and TV contributor.
I had a brief conversation with Archie last month when he categorically stated that Jock Stein was best manager Scotland has ever produced was. Pleased, though I was, to hear this, in the light of accolades earned by Sir Alex Ferguson, I asked him if he could substantiate his claim.
These questions are enormously subjective but few have the breadth of perspective, not to mention the analytical capacity, to tackle this one properly. This is the article he offered to write for us on the subject:
Jock and Fergie, by Archie Macpherson
If there had been no Jock Stein there would have been no Sir Alex Ferguson. It may sound a contentious statement to make but even though it is tempting to play around with history according to your own beliefs and perceptions I would stand by that as a sound interpretation of the way the respective merits of these men can be set against each other.
It helps in this matter if you can lay aside the achievements of those men from the record books and instead consider their personalities and the context in which they plied their trade.
When Jock came to Celtic as manager in 9th March 1965, he fully understood from his past experience there as a player and coach that he would find a club desperate to achieve a commanding status in Scottish football. The frustration they felt only reflected that which their massive support similarly endured around that period. They were massive underachievers.
He also knew from his own background that his task would not simply be about selecting a team, then motivating them, but about radically overhauling the perception the public in general had about the club and which stemmed mainly from the constructs of the media.
It may be difficult for a current generation to fully comprehend this but Celtic then were simply perceived as bit players in a drama where the lead actor came from Govan and always took the curtain-calls. Stein changed all that. He took on the press-pack like he had been sent in from the city’s sanitation department to fumigate.
If you didn’t turn up on the dot for his press conferences then the door was slammed on your face no matter the size of your ego. His television interviews, unlike the passive posture of that likeable man his predecessor Jimmy McGrory, were often truculent and challenging. All of this concentrated the mind of those who wrote and spoke about Celtic. They would think twice about saying anything that might offend the big man. He was strengthening Celtic’s image and, as a by-product of that, securing the self-esteem within the playing staff which previously had been sadly lacking.
And where was Sir Alec at this time? He was watching, observing. I saw him sitting in the lounge of Malpensa Airport Milan in 1970, in the aftermath of the European Cup Final there, amidst thousands of Celtic supporters, which given his Rangers connections only indicated his deep interest in what Jock was doing.
Fergie to his credit was a learner. When he went to Old Trafford it was not to a club about which there was lack of public respect. It was initial lack of respect for himself which made him take up arms against his detractors. To go to a Fergie press-conference was to see a recreation of Jock at the height of his powers. And from being beside Jock in the dressing-room, and on the bench at Scotland games, he absorbed Jock’s handling of men which could range from wrath to wit. The so-called ‘hairdryer’ treatment Fergie handed out only simulated what Jock could do to make the walls of a dressing-room bulge when it got up his hump.
Where they differed enormously as men was that Jock did not harbour grudges in quite the same way as Fergie. Jock did have his difficulties with the BBC initially but never refused to deal with them. Fergie barred them for over a decade, then got an award from the same people. So I am suggesting that although you cannot compare the achievements made in entirely different footballing environments, Fergie served his apprenticeship in the Stein era by consequently adopting much of the big man’s methodology. Jock was the ice-breaker. Fergie was the follow up.
In that sense, as the one was indispensable to the success of the other, I rate Jock as the master of the two.
My thanks to Archie for his contribution.
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Dublin airport here to start journey back to oz… Pretty fed up with this trip so could be last time.. Hopefully
Any transfer news or rumours of players coming or going ?
FFM
Morning . Am at work .
Matthew Butler was a small boy who sang the song Bright Eyes dressed in a rabbit outfit made by his mum. He appeared on TISWAS – ITV’s Saturday morning show for kids. The version is a bit ‘you had to be there at the time’ but in early 1980 when I was a young drinker surfacing before heading off to the see the ‘Tic it was essential viewing and often very, very funny.
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
FFM
Strange that’s how you remember me. There is much of that day that were a haze even then. At the next one I bought Hamilton Tim a whisky and The Minx confiscated it from him!
Hope you are well
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Alasdair
I would say to you to run a bit quicker and you’ll find that your times will improve.
http://youtu.be/pBJLvR5YKqk
A song to big Sammy.
Seems strange that other teams have a league game this weekend but we don’t. Not sure I like this idea of being able to opt out – although of course I can see the benefits for the players.
Jimbo,
Am joking re the round recollection scenario.
Interesting to hear the Minx’s technique of keeping ahead of the game regarding the drink – respect ! :)) Next time I’m out I’ll be telling everyone I need to confiscate their drink to stop them getting drunk…..this is how charitable my nature is :))
CQN Coupon:
AWATR: Burnley
BT: Wolves
GL2: Albion Rovers
Jobo: Partick Thistle
LB: Brentford
POG: Colchester
PF: Scunthorpe
TTT: Huddersfield
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
FFM
No offence taken
I better watch as today’s duty manager , Angela, learned her managerial skills from her 1960s Primary School teacher and we are not supposed to be on the net!
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
http://youtu.be/YV5ynRFzrIM
And now a wee song for Fat Sallery. Hehehe
Jimbo,
This is where typewriters with detachable phone line connections come in handy.
Just ask Archie :))
Big Nan:
There was nothing ‘ulterior’ in my post, nothing whatsoever. Having said that, after reflection, if that council had been voting on the granting of a liquor licence to a proposed ‘gay’ bar, would the minority of councillors opposed to the granting of said licence been within their rights to demand to know the sexual orientation of every other councillor who had a vote?
Lennybhoy
You have mail.
I meant to add to Big Nan, I did see something wrong with those councillors demanding to know the allegiances of the other councillors, I am unaware of any oath required as a prerequisite to being a Celtic season ticket holder or a Celtic PLC share holder.
An oath that might prejudice your professional impartiality.
Gordon J
We do have a game this weekend. . Away to Galatasary.
Better than a game against a goalie and ten defenders
TBJ,
I did say league game … we shouldn’t get into fixture congestion trouble unless there is a spell of really bad weather. But it still seems odd to give up a league game voluntarily for what is basically a friendly.
Auldheid
Thanks for the reply on changing rules, so UEFA rules it SHOULD be then?
By the way we worked in same building for many years and kicked each other many times at lunch time 5 a sides – hope you are well?
DM
kitalba
10:09 on 11 January, 2014
Big Nan:
There was nothing ‘ulterior’ in my post, nothing whatsoever. Having said that, after reflection, if that council had been voting on the granting of a liquor licence to a proposed ‘gay’ bar, would the minority of councillors opposed to the granting of said licence been within their rights to demand to know the sexual orientation of every other councillor who had a vote?
…………………………..&.&…………………….
Hypothesis too far for this bird.
Big Nan:
Mu apologies, I read this post wrongly –
Kitalba, my views on openness and accountability are not selective. The principle is sound, but I could well see the point of a councillor who couldn’t find out what secret societies his fellow councillors belonged to for years taking umbridge at being asked to declare his football allegiances to satisfy the same secretive sectarian schemers.
We are in agreement, if only I WOULD pause to absorb what had actually been written.
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Don’t know if this is right?
Nope it’s not, sorry bout that.
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Naaaaa, not working, al try after. Sorry bout that AGAIN
We do have a game this weekend. . Away to Galatasary.
————
Surely it being a cup competition means it’s a neutral venue?
Are we the home team for the final?
Sally demands to know
Heh heh
MuchPedantryMuchMuchPedantryCSC
My 7-year old played in a futsal tournament this morning – done a great Amido Balde impression every time, played last 2 mins every game and scored
Funniest thing is that he’s the only white player in the team – rest are all African players looking like 12-year olds
FFers attacking from every angle using all available legislation:
GGC FOI Request
“Can you please give information of the number of can collections allowed outside Celtic Park for so called ‘Republican IRA Terrorist Prisoners of War and their families’ in the past year?”
“…the Council have no record of an application for permission to hold a public charitable collection in the vicinity of Celtic Park within the last year by ‘Republican IRA Terrorist Prisoners of war and their families’.
——
“The nominal £1 or similar amount that [Celtic] pay GCC re their sweetheart deals, is this to avoid paying tax on gifts? And if so should HMRC be investigating this as well?”
——
“…… they have slowly worked themselves into positions of power across all sectors. It would be interesting if for instance details could be provided on the religion of staff at say Glasgow City Council or for Unison union reps and how this compares with the demographics of the population, and if there is a noticeable difference should this be any area of concern for the Equality and Human Rights Commission.”
Monaghan1900
It’s amusing that they continue to chase paranoid shadows with our land deals and ignore the slow death of their new club. £22m raised allegedly and now worth £20m…dearie me!
HH
roy croppie
11:30 on
11 January, 2014
And they’re saying it has been a bad week for us – roll on another one next week.
Dr M
I’m mighty fine thanks and I loved the 5s. Kept me young.
I recall in the earlu 80s playing 5s of an evening in a small gym in the CS club in London.
It was benches for goals, short games and winner stayed on.
After a long unbeaten session, as I climbed up the wall bars to watch a good friend asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up.
I never really did.
The problem in Scotland is we pay service to the rules and if clubs had any sense they would apply UEFA FFP standards to the domestic game and no licence then no play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=aq3A4PGR9j4
For all you historians: Rangers 2-3 Celtic 1971; last minute goals are great…
HH
Monaghan1900
I see they have hired another financial whizz kid to oversee the cuts; this could turn out to be my favourite slasher movie.
HH
Monaghan1900
That last quote has left me almost speechless. Reeks of racism and discrimination and lack if self awareness. A very worrying attitude from the originator in 2014.
The accusations of cronyism or corruption don’t bother me but the last one has ruined my breakfast :-)
Hail hail
roy croppie
Aye but Roy he got Liverpool a 20 million kit deal!!!
Be afraid Timmy, be very afraid!!
It was interesting in the match against the Turkish team the other night that Lennie played Mulgrew and the young Irish lad at Centre Back in the second half.Am I reading to much into it or is he preparing for the loss of big Virgil what do you bhoys think ? H.H.
roy croppie
11:36 on 11 January, 2014
—————————————
Thanks for posting that, it brought back some fine memories. We played them 3 times in their own midden in the space of a month and I was at all three games, we won them all. The huns were happy with what they thought was going to be a 2 – 2 draw and up jumped wee Jinky in the last minute of the game to put that misconception to rest, happy days :)))
starry plough forza oscar
What a come down for him then. Liverpool to Sevco, he’s dropped as fast as their share price :)
HH
Pogmathonyahun aka Laird of the Smiles
Cheers mate. Three in a row at Ibrox, I’d have enjoyed that.
HH