Sustainable football success, as we often discuss, is all about the money. In that respect, Newco’s Europa League run will be a significant benefit to them. Winning the tournament, which surely is a greater prospect than them reaching the final was as recently as a month ago, would bring multi-year sustainability to a club which has been a financial basket case for its entire existence.
Even if they fall at the final hurdle, they are likely to have earned £10m more from Europe than last season, there will be associated commercial benefits and crucially, the perceived value of a raft of players out of contract next summer is likely to have doubled. They will sell at a significant premium.
This season will see Newco break even for the first time. The sale of Patterson to Everton earned £9m, with compensation from Aston Villa for their management team bringing in a further £4.5m. Turnover, which excludes money from Everton and Villa, is likely to reach £75m, a lot of money for a young club. Any prospect of Financial Fair Play consequences has disappeared.
To give you an insight into how far ahead Celtic are commercially, that £75m may not be enough to make Newco the highest earning club in Glasgow (transfer fees Celtic received for Edouard, Ajer, etc. are also excluded from this calculation). Next season, Celtic will turnover in excess of £100m, Newco still have work to do to come within £30m of that total.
With the consistent rise in Scotland’s Uefa coefficient, we are likely to see several years where our champions gain automatic entry to the Champions League group stage, whereas the runners up endure two rounds of the treacherous non-champions qualification route. Only two group stage slots are available this way. The stakes could scarcely be higher.
But first, winning the league, qualification for the Champions League with all its benefits lies ahead for Celtic. We battered Hearts in the League and League Cup at Celtic Park this season but won by the slenderest margin on both occasions. Hearts will not make it easy tomorrow. They started the campaign by beating Celtic and feel aggrieved from the subsequent encounters.
Beat Hearts, win the league at Tannadice, celebrate with the trophy and 60,000 friends against Motherwell and remind the world: Glasgow’s green and white! You and I will make sure it remains this way.
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SPIDEY101 on 6TH MAY 2022 12:57 PM
Fitness and injuries
They’re finishing the season stronger than us but you win both the league and cups by being fitter from July to May. We’ve weathered a terrible injury crisis, and we have consistently scored vital goals late in games later in the season, and defended well as well
I don’t get the doctor thing. We’ve got an extensive team of physios and conditioning staff. How does a GP help?
Style
No argument there. They play a style more suited to getting results in knockouts. We didn’t under BR, we were miles away from reaching a final. But I don’t think we should change our coach if he has a winning style in the league to try for better results in Europe. We have the better coach for domestic football, they have the better for Europe, that much is obvious.
Recruitment
Agreed, until the summer our recruitment was patchy at best, last season it was disastrous. But they’ve spent a lot of money on a team that dropped points in 11 games and lost in the cup this season. They haven’t sold anyone yet, we’ve consistently sold our best players.
Resilience and belief – like it or not, they have a resilience and belief about them that we don’t. If things don’t go our way, we struggle.
They crapped the bed the first time they were put under real pressure. Their resurgence domestically has come since we went top. They have won 1 game out of ten away all season in Europe. They lost both games against Malmo, one at hone against ten men when it really mattered. They’re chasers, best when they’re underdogs. That suggests neither resilience nor belief to me.
I agree re Ange, but I don’t think we’ll get close to a final under him. I think we’ll concede too many as he’ll not compromise, and we’ll always be vulnerable to a certain type of team, but I think we’ll go deeper than we did before. I also think our style means we’ll have worse results in the CL than them the Huns should they get there.
But, most importantly I think we’ll beat them in the league again
Good afternoon all from the Victoria Bar. A grey day in old Govanhill.
MADMITCH on 6TH MAY 2022 1:21 PM
Us next season — a good place to start would be full time doctor.
There’d still be a two week wait for a zoom appointment
MADMITCH on 6TH MAY 2022 12:49 PM
EL @ 12.36
‘The board do have a vision for the club — cash cow with a chance of an EPL bonus.’
###
Yes, but that ambition results in a lack of focus and direction for the football side.
Do they kick on and go from strength to strength which might be fatal for the huns, with the consequent damage to The Old Firm business model, which in turn undermines EPL ambitions, or do they adopt a stop start approach keeping ahead, but not too far ahead of the huns?
It looks to me like the board have adopted the second approach and it’s come back to bite them on the arse.
Slainte Ange – Howevvva, whether we like it or not, the direct entry to the group stages is partly due to the results of oldfirm fc
I feel we have to put this one to bed. The country coefficient is comprised of all the nation’s clubs past 3 year performance in Europe, for Scotland historically it was pretty much entirely based on the performance of Celtic and oldco. Therefore when one major club disappeared suddenly your country coefficient goes into nosedive, one club cannot do the coefficient work of two. Celtic had to live with this for 6 years while still performing in Europe and propping up the coefficient.
So when sevco arrived on the European stage with club coefficient points of zero and having contributed zero to the nation’s coefficient, they rode the coattails of Celtic’s contribution for 3 years. Only now are they getting to a position where their contribution is comparable to Celtic’s, so each team is enjoying a more equitable share of the spoils.
Celtic40me – I think we’re never going to agree on this one, so not going to prolong the agony for other posters and just say we’ll agree to disagree!
I think the main point I am making is that for too long we’ve seen the league as the be all and end all and Europe as a bonus. Even in league terms, we’ve tended to do “just enough” and are underperforming in general terms (scouting and recruitment, fitness and medical, coaching and tactics, youth development) and improving that would improve us in both arenas.
I’m also taking this position because I’d happily sacrifice being league winners to win the EL. I’d be half tempted to sacrifice the league just to make the final of the EL though the pain of Porto means that’s probably a step too far.
It was a work event, no rules were broken…
They are all liars.
Belmont
It’s already out there bout the wiggins stuff,not to worry mate,your post is sound.
HH
EL @ 1.28
That was the point I was trying to make.
Unless there is an outside influence then we will ver kick on.
The current lot are just going to sit about and hope for a EPL windfall.
No desire / no drive / no growth agenda.
Just sit back and take the season ticket money.
We are followers not leaders — Ford to their GM.
Bit dated analogy but that is the way we work.
I have seen it first hand so no the warning signs.
Our history has always been playing catch up.
Sometimes we improve too much and overshoot the target.
However the bean counters will then get involved and bring us down a peg.
FMcC was the outlier.
Agree with every word. We can only take care of our own business. We can’t control what the lily livers of the Bundesliga fail to do.
I wasn’t impressed by Leipzig when I watched them in the first leg and fancied Newco to make the final in fact they should have had the match wrapped by half time, missing some great chances. I figure they will have a better chance in the final against the Germans rather than West Ham.
Newco do have some good players and once again Ryan Kent was the danger man – how long more will he be at the club? I wonder who the fitness coach is at Ibrox, whoever he is he is doing a good job. Let’s hope their support conduct themselves when they invade Seville for the good name of Scottish football.
Looking forward to Celtic getting the win tomorrow against Hearts.
SPIDEY101 on 6TH MAY 2022 1:37 PM
I think the main point I am making is that for too long we’ve seen the league as the be all and end all and Europe as a bonus.
I know that’s the perception, But I think people base that on the outcomes rather than what they know about the strategy. Like you, I don’t know what the club’s ambition is for Europe, the temptation is to see late signings or supposed lack of investment as doing “just enough” to get by without planning for European success. I don’t think that’s the case, I don’t think we have a separate plan for either. I think we plan for success. Even the Huns haven’t planned for this – they’ve been even more obsessed with domestic success than you think we are, Europe was always secondary to beating us in the league and watching the house of cards fall.
Anyway, good discussing. Hail! Hail!
HANKRAY on 6TH MAY 2022 1:47 PM
Not sure they’ll have a better chance against Frankfurt.
What impressed/surprised me about them was that they also matched West Ham’s physicality then beat them technically which gives me hope for the final. Neutral ground too……this isn’t a foregone conclusion…
HANKRAY on 6TH MAY 2022 1:47 PM
————–
When we took over southern Spain in 2003. Porto didn’t bring excess fans. Frankfurt will.
Logistical nightmare for the town
When we were there, pubs ran out of beer and train seats sold out way before the game. Will be much worse this time.
Also, when my wife and I realised we were unlikely to get a ticket we bailed early for a pub with a TV, there were not many in Seville – hundreds were pressed up against the window looking in – we got in just in time.
Riot and fighting is a given this time sadly
Need a win tomorrow and need, I think, as a support to get back to reflecting on being league champions 2022/23. Wonderful achievement in the circumstances.
Huns delaying the title last week and getting to a final has deflated me. Good conversations this week here but probably unduly influenced by them uns. I hope we use their toxic influence to be a better club but that one is down to the suits.
HWG 1IAR
HH
Hun final is 50/50….they have a certain way of playing and it works in Europe…BUT ..nobody will ever convince me they’ve not huge chunks of luck…even the away goals rule changing goes for them!!….they played the lowest ranked team in both last 16 and last 8….I remember the draw well for last 8…anyone but Braga I hoped…….another bit of good fortune was playing 3 out of 4 knock out ties away first……again I’m convinced…especially dortmund game ..Home leg first they’d have struggled……its all water under the bridge now and probably sounds churlish…just my opinion……..only getting 10,000 tickets is funny mind
BELMONTBRIAN on 6TH MAY 2022 12:24 PM
Interesting , maybe that’s why they have finished so much stronger than us in matches, even the ones that we’ve won.
WBC @ 1.40
Stop reading the Forger’s Gazette
They are all as bad as each other — right wing propaganda through the ages.
Will anyone ask the question regarding TUE’s in Scottish football?
Are any in play just now / what about the past / does the SPFL keep a record?
All basic stuff if we had a functioning media.
Tempered, proportionate response Pablo to events of last 24 hours.
Personally, I’ve pretty much removed from my memory or consciousness the fact that Old Firm FC are in a EL final.
When it comes to any “them Vs us” analysis I mostly look at the trophies.
My following arithmetic might be wrong but, if so, only a little bit.
If we win on Saturday then, in the ten years since Old Firm FC were formed …
We’ll have won 20 trophies.
They currently have one.
I’m not naive enough to think that 20:1 silverware ratio will be sustained.
It won’t.
But even if it drops to say 3:1 or even 5:2 …
… generation of domination persists .. and within a decade we’ll surpass Oldco’s … ahem … “world” record trophy haul.
Vinniethedog – I think the way you do on this. It isn’t churlish. They’ve had favourable draws one way or another. VAR has helped them. The woodwork has saved them a couple of times.
I was thinking this season in the Europa league is something of an ‘outlier’ season. Two teams struggling domestically getting to a final?
Or maybe a sign of things to come? The bigger sides not investing the same effort into it when they drop down from the CL?
It annoys me that they may win it and the money they would get as a result. Player values will indeed increase but unless those in the final year of a contract extend the contract that value will be limited. I hope they sign most of them up long term and keep them too long. I am still not buying them being any more than a squad of solid journey men. Kent is fast and can beat a man but his productivity is bang average at best. Bassey may yet prove an asset. The rest of them? Not so sure.
We have a superior squad. I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise.
Anyway, I’ll not be annoying my head with them fir the rest of the season. There are three more games that I will be watching this season. All three involve my team. After that I’ll enjoy the longest summer break Celtic have had in years.
Tomorrow is a tough one. I hope our mhen are fully focused.
ZIGGYDOC1 on 6TH MAY 2022 1:06 PM
…………
BET365 have EINTRACHT as SLIGHT Favourites. Not much between both clubs in terms of betting odds for the Final.
My heart goes out to the good people of Seville.
HH
New hun club doctor
https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/7682/jakob-fuglsang-allegedly-linked-to-banned-doping-doctor-michele-ferrari#:~:text=Dr%20Michele%20Ferrari%20is%20probably,the%20United%20States%20Postal%20team.
BRRB,,,
Keep your chin up mate…the Mankie Mob have won NOTHING yet.
HH
Spidey 101
It was a great post this morning and you have continued to argue your point with clarity but, I agree with Celtic40Me, the argument is a tilt against windmills; it is based on a false premise.
Nobody- absolutely not one person- has ever stated or believed that we “cannot compete in Europe.”; it is a ridiculous assertion to make which is why it has never been made.
Some posters, like myself, HAVE stated that we cannot contest the final stages of the CL because it is a hegemony of the Big 5 leagues. That truism remains true. For the past decade, including this season, we have seen 7 English teams, 8 Spanish teams, 4 German, 2 Italian and 1 French club participate. In total 11 different clubs have contested the title and 5 different clubs (Spanish, English and German have won it. It is clearly a hegemony.
Even if you go to q-final level, which is a high achievement, far superior to a Europa final- you will see the same hardening effect of top 5 league domination. Yes there are other non-CL contenders like Seville, Benfica, Porto, Dortmund or Ajax who get there and some have been unlucky y not to get a chance at a final title, but the trend remains at heart. It is a competition for top clubs in top 5 leagues with an occasional competitive run by a top French, Dutch, Portuguese or Ukrainian outfit. Once in a blue moon, a fairytale occurrence happens where a peripheral club from a peripheral league has outdone our best. It is 10 years since that happened – Apoel Nicosia getting to the q-finals with a Brazilian-stocked team.
If anyone has a good year or outperforms us- Copenhagen, Zagreb, or Maribor, we hold ourselves up to ridicule- even though our decade long performance ranks close to theirs or betters it.
Sevco reaching a Europa final has not changed the truth of this CL argument. Nobody has ever asserted that we could not ever again reach a Europa final. Show me any post that stated this, and Choirboy was confident it was said, and I’ll donate £50 to Mary’s Meals.
Similarly, no happy clapper was stating that we’d give up a league in exchange for a Euro final (there are many huns using this Fox & Grapes reasoning this morning though). I am on record in saying that losing a Europa/Uefa final is just about equivalent to a last 16 or last 8 in CL achievement. Recent consecutive winners, Sevilla, kind of proves that point. Euro league losing finals, which we wallow in from 2003, was an achievement gained by such stellar clubs as Alaves, Middlesboro, Fulham and the old Huns.
Of course, we can do better in Europa and Conference competitions and we have been punching below our weight recently but reaching the final is still an outlier/Foinavon level achievement by a badly run club such as Sevco.
Many posters are imagining and inventing strengths in this basket case club that are just not there and never have been. They are seeing a purpose and intent and planning and cunning and ambition behind an event they never thought they would achieve. The Bluenose fan, this morning, is astounded to find themselves in a Euro final, as am I.
It has happened and it cannot be wished away as a complete fluke, or explained away as mere luck or chance but spare me the Intelligent Design argument behind how they got there. They made the best use of a bad lot and beat a lot of much better teams , and some poorer ones on the way. With the same points total in a different group, such as ours, they would have been in the Conference group with us.
Two months ago- nobody was seeing the strengths in the Sevco team and management which they are now saying was there all along. If they had these qualities they would have deployed them in the league campaign too but we have bested them there. Whether it ends up as a 1 point, 3 point, 6 point or 9 point winning margin, we bested them.
They are in a Euro final. I will be hoping they lose but I will acknowledge their fantastic achievement. I will not praise their ambition because it is embedded in corruption. And I will continue to belittle their players and manager because, as the team who bested them, we have earned every bit of the gloating rights.
Reminder-
3 rounds of Superbru to be completed. Predictions due in by 12 noon tomorrow
Rainjurz leeched their way to a final more than once in their sashes to ashes existence, but watching Sevco and the spare licence go to Seville is a ball breaker.
Three DM’s protecting the defence with good full backs overlapping is a Wattenachio special when it’s over two
legs, hence they do well in games where they don’t need to score or in the last three games don’t even need a ‘striker’.
Celtic’s attacking style requires better players and fewer plodders and here we
are today.
Verse Hertz
Hart
Ralston
CCV
Starfelt
Taylor
McGregor
O’Riley
Hatate
Jota
GG
Kyogo
Maeda rested Rogic for later
so,
we should be signing more players with asthma.
maybe mccarthy got his sport induced afflication playing more games than scott brown.
Our defence will be more important than our attack tomorrow. I cannot see Ange changing the Hart ~Ralston CCV Starfelt Taylor part of the selection.
We have enough power to change things up front but we need to keep Boyce and Simms and McKay quiet and we need to get past Craig Gordon.
Achieve that and I will have a preliminary Title celebration and go again when it is mathematically won.
Good to see the majority of the “we hate everything Rangers and so must you” posts & posters conspicuous by absence from today’s debate. There is lots of analysis and many important points being well made. An interesting, if not wholly enjoyable, debate on unexpected & unforeseen subject matter.
However the suggestion that there is some kind of drug regime afoot is absurd in my opinion. Also the dire warnings that the people of Seville are about to face Armageddon, smacks of both sanctimony & jealousy. – let’s wait and see….Armageddon predictions have a poor reputation when it comes to Scottish football.
We are first-up this weekend – the SPFL trophy is there to be won & we can lay BOTH hands on it, although we may have to wait till Wednesday to actually lift it. The Ibrox club, for all there sterling efforts have won nothing yet, although I doubt any of us would have a serious bet against them as they face another(even lower) chunk of the Bundesliga – let’s enjoy tomorrow!!!
Fek magine ye wer a tim in this ward
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1522577693514117120?t=p7IWTIlxuWhPaoSi_QYEHw&s=07&fbclid=IwAR1IguUkcJL5byBZ6CiLNroduONZa_bA5hye5i11mr-YptsB6IKVcer1W8Q
SFTB @ 2.59
I doff my cap at your cap doffing.
CL — not for the likes of us / file under too hard.
I’m sure your ancestors were muttering similar thoughts in Aug 66.
What we needed was another season in the ECWC not pushing our luck with the big boys in the EC — don’t you know that only teams from southern Europe will ever win the EC in May?
Aye right..
VR got to the SF of the CL this season only to be undone by their GK falling off a cliff over a 45 minute period of play.
If VR can do it then we can do it.
It won’t be easy — it will require total focus / a fully engaged boardroom but it can de done.
Remember they were only in the CL because they won the EuL — mid table in the league.
In fact we have played a higher ranked Spanish team this season
With a half cooked squad and a manager just in the door we managed to score a few goals against them.
.
So what of our friends in Govan / EF — would you expect them to repeat the efforts of VR and get to the CL SF’s next season and if not then why can a mid table Spanish team make it to the CL SF and we cannot ever hope to do the same.
Rampant defeatism is what some would call it.
Down negative man down — we seem to be polluted by Yetis on CQN.
FSC @ 3.58
As long as he can sing the Red Flag then for the good of progressive politics I don’t care.
Even if he has no voice and has to play it on a flute then that is OK as well.
I’m sure he is an expert on the 1918 Education Act as well.
Politics is a complex business.
Or at least it was until we re-discovered the identity politics of the 30’s.
Yeti @ 3.30
You are a bad / bad / bad man.
I’m sure all the stuff behind the scenes will come out when someone is trying to flog a book.
SFTB @ 3.45
Its Hertz tomorrow not VR / EF / Roma / Bodo …
I hope we beat them and we beat them well.
I hope that we match and exceed their physicality.
I hope that we score some wonder goals at a pace that beats the camera man.
If we cannot then there is more work to do during the close season than I thought.
At the elite level it is possible to contest your own domestic league and be competitive in the Champions League. Real Madrid already have La Liga sewn up and they will head to Paris to face a Liverpool side that will go to the wire with Man City for the EPL title.
Below the elite level it is a different matter, this season anyway. Eintracht Frankfurt (11th), The RIFC (2nd), Feyenoord (3rd), and Roma (5th) , will not win their respective domestic leagues but two of them will lift a Euro trophy. That should give us grounds for optimism.
We often play some of our best stuff during the Sep/Oct/Nov months. So, the focus should be on getting out of our CL Group and then having some sort of European football after Christmas. How we avoid the February Euro calamity is another matter. Solve than one and we begin to build our reputation again. And we might just find ourselves in a final.
SFTB @ 3.45
If we cannot keep them quiet / if we cannot beat them — does that mean we have to buy them or do we just get RN as our next manager?
JD @ 4.11
Why do we play our best football in Sept / Oct ? Nov?
Plus why do we look so exhausted in Feb / March?