Scottish Premier League chief executive, Neil Doncaster, yesterday told the BBC that no provision existed for a liquidated SPL club to reconvene as a Newco FC at the bottom of the Scottish Football League (reported at 1821 on their crisis timeline).
This is being grossly misreported to suggest that the only opportunity for a Rangers Newco to phoenix is to slip straight back into the SPL – completely and utterly untrue.
There is also no provision for a Newco FC to slip into the SPL. Newco FC would be able to apply for membership to the Scottish Football League (where they would unquestionably be accepted) or the Scottish Premier League.
The default position when a club goes out of business in the Scottish Premier League is that the club that finishes bottom of the league at the end of the season escapes relegation. As things stand, Dunfermline would remain an SPL club and Ross County would be promoted.
No moral, legal or football administrative argument has been made to suggest that Dunfermline will be relegated to allow a new club entry into the league. None whatsoever. Dunfermline Athletic will remain a SPL club if Rangers are liquidated.
The various parties seeking to phoenix Rangers would get the lawyers onto securing a stadium, scouting some part-timers, buying a ticketing system, applying for entry into the Scottish Football League and finding cash to employ stadium stewarding. This could take weeks but is more likely to take months or even years.
Football needs to get used to this idea.
Neil Doncaster did not suggest a Newco FC applying for entry into the SPL had any primacy over an application to the SFL. In fact, an application to the SFL would not have to overcome the unfortunate objections of Dunfermline Athletic – who pay their BBC licence fee and are worthy of due respect.
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Kitalba
Yes you right
The administrator’ s have to act in the best interest of the creditors .
And could be liable if they do not do so.
Also with H.M.R.C. Involved the administrator will have to behave
In a correct manner through out or face legal action.
Stage 1. administration = make profit and pay creditors. Or
= run at loss =liquidation
Stage 2. liquidation= sell assets and pay creditors
= assets and new owner = newco
Would not claim to be totally correct but have very good idea
And would like to be correct by a fellow tim If wrong.
Jam67
The administrators have just said,”Call, whit ye got?” to the Blue rinse not whyte knight group who have three jorries and 2 bully conkers in their war chest.
HH
JF
You seem to be saying that a newco can just carry on where oldco
finished mid season without any real interruption.
they will drop all debts but still retain the footballing side and
finish out the season
There is nowhere in the rules of the game that allows such a scenario.
they are two totally different companies
therefore they have two different histories
I think your concern is that they have always seemed to wriggle free when
caught before and that they might do so again.
Try and calm yourself and take yourself back to the basics
The spotlight is on them and this story has moved out from
the back pages to the front
Its not just the pie man they are trying to shaft but
the TAXMAN
KTF
jungle jam67
Mate as I said I haven’t a clue about administration and all the rest but I did just go to the relevant pages on the British Government and a company in administration can still be served with a winding up petition.
Those guys have already got a lot of legals and authorities looking in their direction; if they want to stay this side of bars they best stay on the right side of all law and legislation.
Can we expect major action by HMRC on Thursday and Friday to rip out the dying Hun’s gizard?
They seem to have been forgotten amid all the player wage cut shenanigans but Wednesday’s announcements will have enraged them I suspect.
What sort of enforcement is possible? A high court petition to remove the administrators and allow HMRC to light the funeral pyre?
Goddamn, this is probably more exciting than Christmas when I was 10 and got a subbuteo stadium. Ionically, that will be the last form in which the Huns exist; a subbuteo memory. Every subbuteo hun player looked like John Greig and regulary broke my Celtic players. Farewell Huns, get tae flick.
Gentlemen…..
We are not going to get EVERYTHING we want out of this.
rangers will stay in admins for a while and not compete with us for years, and keep their ‘history’. Which includes Manchester.
Or….
rangers get liquidated. A new hunsco gets put together. They compete in a few years. They lose their ‘history’.
Either way, they will exist in some form. The only thing up for grabs now, is how long they suffer for their cheating.
Anyone thinking they will disappear and never surface again will be disappointed.
I think…..
James, with all due respect…..
get tae yer f*ckin bed, ye’ve done enough worryin’ the day……
On our behalf, I might add, god bless you, kind sir.
Rest easy, THEY are undoubtedly toast, and will burn in hell.
pigalle
James Forrest is the emperor of ice cream
Well JF you seem back on track
The big hoose is going to shut doon soon
Was well worried early on there will all the posts going back
And forward
Just like me some times when a question in put in a certain way
And the answer is providing the Hun with a way out .
The stage is set and all eyes are fixed on them ,if there was an easy
Way out of this for ra gers Murray would have sold them for more than
A £1
Murray knew what he was doing and what Craig whyte done with ra gers was not his problem as long as he liquidated them before the FTT result.
Jam67
James F @ 02.02
Ah knew that ….
Kitalba
While in administration they have to run the business at a profit all the while
Hmrc and the creditors wait for payment .if the business cannot be ran at profit or going concern to be sold to pay bills.
All assets liquidated ie sold to pay hmrc and creditors
The c v a stage where all hmrc and creditors accept a 1p in £ etc
To allow business to trade Without large unpayable debt.
Hope this kind of sorted out what JF was getting worried about
So may different ways for this to pan out for the Hun
But IMHO then losing there history and starting up as a newco will
Do me
The 2 contracts etc is a game changer.
Jam67
weeron, you’ve summed up the scenarios succinctly my friend!
They’ll endure, either as a newco or an even longer suffering oldco.
But they might, they just might, GTF for good, and my country will start to evolve at a startlingly progressive rate.
But even if they do persist in some guise to keep a pustulant boil of bigotry alive and festering in Scotland, it will most probably be in a weakened state, while Celtic – that bright, wonderful, romantic, ever-growing, ever friend-making phenomenon – will go from strength to strength, not just because of how much richer we are or how well-run we are, but because of WHAT we are and WHAT we stand for. Because of the fact that at Celtic, everyone’s welcome to join in the party.
That is why the huns are truly fecked.
Right bhoys
Off tae bed after another 18 Hour day of work and cqn
Only came on for a quick look 3 housi ago
The last 3 weeks has been a heid buster.
Lovin every minute of this special event
Havingapartywhenthehunsdiex csc
The Ghood will prevail on 8 March, 2012 at 02:41 said:
Thanks for the response. While I don’t think they will completely disappear, we can still enjoy their pain….:)
Weeron:
Spot on.
Hoping for the former as I think that way the fiscal chains are more substantial and they have to pay their debts.
One thing is for certain Craigy bhoy is a serious fly in the ointment…
Looking forward to ‘squad decimation Friday’…
weeron – I’m sure you’re correct, they will either stagger in & out of administration for some years – the more the merrier – thus continuing in their 1873 manifestation but as a spent force and (I hope) a target of scorn & ridicule.
But I think it more likely that a newco will be created by some group or other, & for that reason all possible pressure has to be maintained on the SPL & SFA to ensure they (A) get no preferential treatment & are in no way “rewarded” for their filthy skulduggery, and (B) are prevented from returning similar in guise of the 1873’s rejuvenated corpse, or otherwise we need to crank up sufficient clamour to ensure that HMRC pounces on them all over again for their dumb arrogance.
Personally, I’d prefer the former scenario & especially one in which we would play them at some point every season & soundly cuff them as a perennial reminder that they are not, & never really were “ra peepul”
Greetings from Denver. Having a pint of Fat Tyre which is no’ bad as we say!
The Huns are for sure knackered. No amount of jiggery pokery will save them.
Jelly and Ice Cream party in Troon very soon!
Hail Hail!
RobinBhoy
Summer friendly at Yankee Stadium against Chelsea?
http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/article.php?article_id=29902
JF and others
No need to worry whether Rangers are liquidated or not
No need to worry whether they remain in administration or not
No need to worry whether they return as a Newco or not
No need to worry whether they play in SFL 3 or the SPL
No need to worry whether they are deducted 10 or 20 or 30 points or not
What this dirty brouhaha has done is to reveal to the whole world what we knew all along. What our fathers and grandfathers knew.
The whole pack of cards has collapsed and we can now all see that the deck was loaded. Loaded in favour of the establishment team. Loaded to ensure their misplaced air of superiority was fed and satisfied. Loaded to preserve the myth of being the chosen ones, ra peepil.
No longer can we be accused of being paranoid when we highlight the CHEATS.
No longer can the world ignore the evidence before them.
No longer will we have to suffer the sneers of the press and establishment.
Forever they will be branded with the stigma of being tax cheats, contract cheats, debt cheats and a carbunkle on the face of civilised and organised sport.
Wherever they play they will be tagged with the label of being the club which CHEATED anyone who threatened to impede their quest for titles.
Perhaps even Mark Hately will recognise how tainted their achievements are.
Morning Celts aaaaah, another day of hurting Hun shenanigans, bring in the bulldozers and end it all.
James Forrest great post earlier amigo!
V
Huns Have Expired to the air of Mull of Kintyre
Oh the Huns have expired,
Please tell me where is, the party,
My desire, is always to be there,
when the Huns have expired.
Far have I travelled with our bhoys in Green,
Those Celts who can party with jelly and ice-cream,
The best times are coming when the huns are retired,
And we’ll party all day, when the huns they expire!
Oh the Huns have expired,
Please tell me where is, the party,
My desire, is always to be there,
when the Huns have expired.
Copyright V
Good morning my friends from a beautiful, clear skied, East Kilbride.
Another fun filled day lies ahead.
Jobo
weeron –
To be fair, I don’t believe I have read or heard a Celtic supporter anywhere, at any time, suggest that Rangers will completely disappear.
Everyone knows they will survive, or come back as a new entity. The only question is how that is achieved.
So I don’t think anyone is going to be disappointed that Rangers do not fall into a black hole, never to return.
No time to read back gents, but in case someone HASN’T posted this, here’s Chico’s view. (Doesn’t offer anything more than “won’t be allowed to happen.”)
And so it goes on and on and on. The torturing of Rangers dragging out agonisingly, stretched across the media for all the world to see. Is it death by a thousand cuts or merely the most painful of life-saving surgery?
Too early to say apparently, although with every anguished day the genuine hope that the club might be able to extricate itself from administration without plummeting into a hellish liquidation seems to fade.
There is civil war within the battle to save the old club. Dave King versus David Murray. Craig Whyte versus almost everybody. Let’s have a Meltdown: Ticketus, what an opportunity.
Motherwell can prepare themselves for the Champions’ League qualifiers, that’s for sure. If, that is, they can keep ahead of the chasing pack in the Scottish Premier League.
There is no chance now that Rangers will beat the 31 March deadline of having their accounts signed off, thereby automatically debarring them from European competition. And an annual meeting? It’s a photo finish with world peace as to what might happen first.
Rangers and Celtic are seen as integral to the Scottish Premier League’s TV deal
And here’s a fact, not speculation. It’s SPL survival or bust for everyone at Ibrox now.
The SPL has confirmed that the only way to the Scottish Football League is relegation. This isn’t a game of snakes and ladders where you throw the wrong dice and end up at the shallow end of the Third Division.
If Rangers ultimately explode – as opposed to the current slow burn – and liquidate then it will be down to the SPL board to decide whether they would accept a new company – say Rangers 2012 or Govan United – back into the fold. If they don’t then there is nowhere to run.
This isn’t an exercise in sporting integrity, you see. The Marques of Queensberry wasn’t invited to sit on the board. The rules say there is no path to accommodate Rangers, or any other SPL club, which has behaved with such cavalier financial abandon for that matter, within the current marriage with the SFL.
Curious but true.
With every astonishing revelation, Rangers stand accused of unravelling our game – currently – and their history. What an unholy mess.
It is the procrastination that baffles most observers. The administrator set up base camp some time ago now and yet still the indecision and bickering continues with just young Gregg Wylde having been seem to have done the decent thing and fallen on the sword. Good luck to him.
Dave King reckons – and as a man who fired £20m into the club, he is entitled to his opinion – that Rangers will liquidate. He could be wrong, but I suspect he is right.
Liquidation is the ultimate sanction. Sunset over Ibrox and run the “That’s all, folks” caption.
From the ashes and all that, of course. An old home but a new club and the everlasting memory that, just like dear old Third Lanark, a once proud institution died of shame. Glasgow Rangers by any other name. Except it’s not quite, is it?
For all that, the SPL won’t – can’t – turn its collective back on the new Rangers because it cannot turn away the business. The Ibrox following – 50,000 paying customers a home game – won’t slice their loyalties and follow on elsewhere.
They will simply evaporate from our sport and, with them, the television companies who see that, without Old Firm matches, the Scottish game is about as showbiz as The Sky at Night.
The reason why the people who are showing an interest in buying Rangers now, did not attempt to buy Rangers in May 2011 when Craig Whyte bought the club, was because of the unknown factor that is the Big Tax Case.
Those same people are not suddenly going to buy the club now, while the BTC is still out there.
The only way any of these guys will buy the club BEFORE the BTC, is if it is liquidated and they set up a NewCo, without the BTC axe hanging over them.
Whether Rangers are still in administration or out of administration (not very likely) when the Big Tax Bill arrives, HMRC will immediately serve them with a winding-up order, and that will be that. Liquidation.
The bottom line is . . .
If one of the so-called Blue Knights wants to take over the club now or in the near future, the club has to be liquidated first, and a new company formed.
If the Big Tax Bill arrives through the door first, then they will be forced into liquidation.
Either way, it’s the end of Rangers as we know it.
True enough Tom. And the most galling thing for them, which few of their supporters still refuse to acknowledge:
“They brought it on themselves”.
Tom you got that right mate. Nice ring to it end of rangers as we know it. Cheerio Monster munches. end of rangers , end of rangers. And the Mayans prophesised this centuries aga\o dontcha know. Petec any chance Nostradamus had a paragraph on the end of the evil empire. lovin every minute hope it lasts until lenny lifts the Scottish Cup. Hail hail.
Morning All,
Decent article again from Tom English in the Scotsman……
IT’S been clear for some time that the Rangers saga is a hell of a drama, but yesterday it delved into the realms of a circus.
Even before David Whitehouse and Paul Clark, the administrators who appear to have a strange aversion to administering, ran out of Murray Park with their hair on fire, the day had been bizarre. It ended with Whitehouse and Clark talking about the “perilous financial situation” at the club as if it had only just dawned on them that the club had a few money issues.
Yesterday was a day that fried the brain. Over the past three weeks, this story has delivered many frantic moments but what we saw throughout Wednesday was surreal. Around 4pm, Duff and Phelps in the guise of Whitehouse and Clark issued a statement which included the following line. “However, no one should be in any doubt that in the absence of sufficient cost-cutting measures or receipt of substantial unplanned income, the club will not be able to fulfil its fixtures throughout the remainder of the season.”
These words leap off the page. Sufficient cost-cutting was what Whitehouse and Clark were in the building to do. And they haven’t done it. There would be no threats to fixtures had they conducted themselves like normal administrators. They talk about the “absence” of cuts as if it has nothing to do with them, but it has everything to do with them.
Three weeks ago, when these guys initially walked in the door at Ibrox, it was plain that Rangers’ were in mortal danger and yet the first significant act they attempted to pull-off was the signing of a new player, Daniel Cousin, on £5,000-£7,000 a week. It was a move that confused everybody outside Rangers. How could a club that was in administration find the money to bring in a new striker? Wasn’t the point of administration to bring the costs down, not up?
Cousin never arrived, not because the administrators saw the folly of their actions but because the Scottish Premier League wouldn’t allow it. Since then we have waited for Whitehouse and Clark to get on with the business of administration. And we’re still waiting.
They’re saying some strange things, such as their repeated statement that liquidation is not the likely outcome to all of this. Is that view based on hard fact or wishful thinking? If it’s hard fact, then where are the facts? Whitehouse and Clark, to our knowledge, don’t know what kind of verdict awaits them from the HMRC case. It could be nothing, could be something, could be a whole lot more than something. They don’t know. So how can they make bold predictions?
Here’s what else they say. They need to save £1m a month and the situation has gotten dire. At other football clubs, the sad reality in these administration cases is that players get moved on quickly to cut the expenditure. At Motherwell many years ago there was a bloodbath. At Dundee, the manager and assistant manager got the chop. It’s a heartless business, but it needs to be done.
Nobody wants a bloodlust, but in the Rangers squad there are players that could easily have been moved on, players who haven’t been playing a whole lot or players who haven’t played particularly well. Neil Alexander, on a reported £12,000 a week, has played 13 games in two years at an average of £96,000 a game. There are others. Nothing against Alexander – he’s a great bloke – but you have to seriously wonder what the administrators are playing at. They say they have been reluctant to make players redundant because it would “destroy the fabric” of the club. So instead what we are left with, potentially, is a club full of players that is unable to afford to play them in fixtures. What about the club’s fabric, then?
Whitehouse and Clark have attempted to broker a pay-cut deal with players and discussions have gone on endlessly and all the time the debt was mounting and the club’s position growing ever more perilous. They have now put off any player redundancies until Friday. For a pair of guys who were brought in to reduce costs, they have effectively sat on their hands. By their inaction, they have kept players in jobs for that bit longer and that, no doubt, will please the supporters. But their prevarication has also increased the likelihood of Rangers going into liquidation and surely that is the biggest fear of all, that Rangers as we know it will cease to exist. No player is bigger than the club goes the mantra. Well, if that is true, nobody has told that to the administrators.
They are now frantically trying to expedite a sale. They don’t know what is happening in terms of the HMRC big tax case but they are now asking Paul Murray and his Blue Knights (and anybody else who happens to be watching) to hurry up with their rescue plan. Murray is entitled to say, “Hang on, until I know that what tax debt might be due to HMRC I’m not doing anything”. Murray, you have to assume, doesn’t even know who legally owns Ibrox and Murray Park. Expediting the sale of the club is a farce in these circumstances. Murray would appear to be the only show in town now, but how can he put together a cogent bid when there is so much he presumably does not know about the true state of the club?
Before Whitehouse and Clark performed their Keystone Cops routine, we had Dave King’s statement, a gob-smacking thing of infinite fascination. He took pot-shots at Sir David Murray, who fired back, he levelled Craig Whyte with a bazooka blast, Whyte responding with the squeak of a pop-gun. King said that Whyte duped the fans, abused their loyalty and blatantly lied. No argument there.
He said David Murray had deceived him over the state of the club finances and claimed he was suing him for £20m. Sir David fired a volley back at him, saying that he had known all about the Ibrox finances from his time on the board and had said nothing for many years. The tit-for-tat was engrossing. King said it was inevitable that Rangers would be liquidated, Whyte disagreed. By lunch-time, it was becoming obvious that this club was beginning to eat itself.
It’s easy to feel sympathy for Paul Murray. For three weeks he has been going about his business in a diligent way, trying to put together the finance for a Blue Knights bid. He has never claimed to be anything he isn’t. He’s not a multi-millionaire, not a flash harry. He was a credible front-man for a bid. The administrators not only believe in him, they appear to be relying on him. The burden of pressure on Paul Murray right now must be immense.
He has King as a backer and a friend. In another weird dimension to yesterday King gave the SFA the go-ahead to conduct a fit and proper test on him. That’s bravado for you. King is facing 322 charges of money laundering, racketeering, fraud and tax evasion in South Africa. The tax authorities believe he owes them 2.7bn rand, about £230m. The prosecuting authorities want to put him on trial for alleged crimes that could, in theory, involve a prison sentence of 15 years if they are proven. Last year he had his vast wine estate seized by administrators. King is number one target on the government list. They’ve been chasing him for 14 years but he says he has no case to answer. We can only wish the SFA well with their fit and proper test. King is a complex man to examine.
And he would have driven his colleague, Paul Murray, scatty yesterday. Here is Murray, doing his damndest to construct a bid that is based on the club moving out of administration and into a more stable future. Then along comes his fellow Knight and says, “Nah, liquidation is inevitable”. It was a bad moment for the fans who want to believe that the Knights have their ducks in a row. The sight of Murray and King disagreeing with each other was an awkward one for those who reckon that they represent Rangers’ last hope.
The circus moves on. Tomorrow is the new D-day for the administrators. Or Saturday, or Sunday, or Monday. This is a story seemingly without an end about a club that has the end very much in its sights.
Mac
One day, from that quintessentially British Club, maybe, just
maybe somebody, somewhere, someday will say SORRY !
James Forrest is The Emperor of Ice Cream on 8 March, 2012 at 00:19 said:
——————————–
There is a contradiction in your argument.
If the newco is free of any encumbrance from dead Rangers then why would the SPL
a) Let them in to the SPL – why would they have an higher priority than any other club which already exists
b) Punish the newco with points deduction. By definition they are not dead Rangers so can’t be punished for their sins
Any newco which is “recognised” by the SPL as being the same as the dead Rangers would be similarly treated by HMRC and all other creditors.
Morning, So it begins.
Sun calling for our game at ibrox to be cancelled on safety grounds.
They are really hurting.
The options for RFC are narrowing by the hour.
Increasingly, it becomes impossible to see the logic of “investing” now instead of waiting till after liquidation.
Yet even that rebirth looks fraught – can it be achieved without lengthy, expensive court cases involving Whyte, Ticketus, and HMRC?
As Vito says to Michael; “There just wasn’t even time, Michael, there wasn’t enough time…”
A few months ago RFC 1872 looked t have a 50-50 chance of survival.
Now, even the chances of RFC 2012 look as slim, if not slimmer.
RobinBhoy on 8 March, 2012 at 04:11 said:
Greetings from Denver. Having a pint of Fat Tyre which is no’ bad as we say!
___
The best brewery tour I’ve been on is the New Belgian Beer Company in Fort Collins. They do more than just Fat Tyre they do have some really tasty beers. The tour is really entertaining and plenty tastings as you go round.
Operation get ragers newco back into the spl is really ramping up their propaganda with chic adding his wisdom and threats .
First they told us all that the other 11 clubs would vote to let them in ,then when they could not be sure that enough of the 11 would roll over ,then came the sky deal threat ,now that that has been debunked ,up comes this little piece of crap .
So chic ,if ragers get the least they deserve and get expelled from the spl ,you are telling us that the sfl would just say to them ,no sorry we don,t want you .Now think about your answer chic ,no really!,think about what your saying chic .
As threats go this sniveling piece must surely be put in the desperate category .Although who it is aimed at is unclear ,surely it must be the more dim of the ragers follow followers to have them digging down the back of the sofa to save them ,as I would think the more better informed fans in Scotland would see right through this trash straight away
hail hail
Aunt Sally dubbed ‘The Kingmaker’
This is the guy who has managed to get rangers eliminated from every competition this season.
More like the ‘Court Jester’
HH
Good morning fellow Celts bright clear blue skies but chilly in London Town
I like the idea of thems being forced to repay debts over many years with requirement to show fully audited accounts as a condition of licence.
Also every ‘cheated’ trophy returned to its rightful owner in that wee red book
HH
M
Hi guys, is anybody getting the feeling that maybe Craig Whyte isn’t a billionaire after all? (thumbsup)
SuperSutton 07:09
Any newco which is “recognised” by the SPL as being the same as the dead Rangers would be similarly treated by HMRC and all other creditors.
Exactly. Nail battered on the heid. If thems return in some form and this form is treated as newRankers by spl/sfa/msm then Hmrc will attack.