We have spoken before that preliminary positions are being established ahead of the much-anticipated outcome of HM Revenue and Customs tribunal against Rangers with the possibility that, in the event the decision goes in favour of HMRC, the company could go into liquidation. This weekend brought a fresh attempt to pitch a positive scenario in favour of Rangers.
One newspaper sought solace in the case Parma, stating that the Italian club was allowed to re-emerge in Serie A after going out of business in 2004.
Unfortunately this is a complete misrepresentation of the facts, as far as Parma is concerned, precedent points to an entirely different outcome. Parma went into administration on 28 April 2004 after Parmalat, the dairy company which owned a majority of their shares, also went into administration. Parma remained in administration for three years before emerging after a successful restructuring of their debts. The club was then bought by a new company – but crucially – continuity of football operations was possible because there was no liquidation and debts were restructured in a way consistent with prevailing administration laws, that allowed a company to continue trading.
This, however, is not the end of the precedent Parma can offer Neil Doncaster and his SPL board. In 1968 AC Parma went into liquidation and disappeared from existence. They are an ex-football club, to use a phrase I can see creeping into the local lexicon soon.
Shortly after the failure and permanent disappearance of AC Parma, another club, AC Parmense, who were newly promoted into Sere D, changed their livery to match their better known former-neighbours and changed name to AC Parma. It was this club, AC Parma-formerly-known-as-AC Parmenese, who were promoted through the divisions and went on to win three European trophies.
Precedent from Italy is clear: if a large SPL club is liquidated an opportunity exists for Clyde FC to change their name, ditch the white shirts, rent a large, vacant, stadium and try to work their way through the leagues. Just as Airdrie United-formerly-known-as-Clydebank, are attempting to do.
There are no free tickets to the elite level of Scottish football.
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1,018 Comments- Pages:
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Bhoy67
Not at all
Hail Hail
Declan cracks me up! Thanks for ending my boredom at work. Hail hail!
truth4767 says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:23
23 January, 2012 at 12:09
Well I thought I would give you my view of the world from 4 points behind. I had already conceded the league on here a few weeks ago and expect the lead to increase in the coming weeks. The transfer strategy at Ibrox is non existent and we are being linked with every 30 year old journeyman from all over the place.
I am more worried about the future of the club and the person currently in charge of it.
Anyway, on to another subject.
There has been mass rejoicing on here about Rangers being liquidated, put into administration, relegated to division 3 etc., but I have to put this to you.
The SPL has always been a two horse league, you want it reduced to one, at a time when Scottish Football is at an all time low.
We are on our uppers, Hearts future is shaky, Aberdeen are millions in debt, so are Dundee Utd, Hibernian are the same and could be relegated and I would suggest that any pan European League or British league (which will happen someday) is years off.
So there you have it.
The SPL is yours for years to come. No Old Firm games, no competition.
Your Champions League entry will be questionable.
Turgid entertainment, which lets face it , is the norm in SPL football gets,will get worse. The notion that Rangers supporters will then divide their allegiances to ther clubs is laughable, they won’t become stronger because of our removal.
TV deals will diminish, sponsorship will fall, your ability to bring players to the SPL, hard just now, will become even harder. Foriegn players relish the Old Firm match, that will be gone for them.
Now, as for season ticket sales, the first season they would probably hold up, because of an atmosphere of triumphalism and being the only show in town.
After that, your season ticket sales will drop like a stone, due to lack of competition and poor fare.
Now ask yourself, really, will you be able to put up for such a scenario, I don’t think so.
—
Absolute codswallop that shows you how deep the denial actually runs.
Harder to bring players to the SPL? Why would we need to?
Champions League entry questionable? You mean like it hasn’t been ever since Sir David of Dodge took over?
Thick orc.
HOOPEDDREAMS 1337
I concur in the main with what you say,however I think that if they are voted in by whatever means,then the only recourse is to the courts.
This is where we are caught by the short and curlies.
Celtic-or any other club-cannot pursue this through the courts,as we would be in breachof UEFA and FIFA rules.
It would take an outsider,which I believe has already been suggested as in the pipeline by TORQUEMADA on RTC,to take the case to court.
That would tie everything up for years.
Only in Scotland could such duplicity be considered as the natural solution.
Oh,ok,Zimbabwe,East Germany,Rumania,and a few others in the bad old days. It’s only us who are still stuck in them.
Welcome, Rabiu Ibrahim, you pocket-sized hunskelper you !
pigalle
Sorry,that referred to HOOPED DREAMS’ post at 1317,not 1337.
Anyone want Wednesday’s lottery numbers…..
What happens if they win the big tax case?
Are they still in danger of administation because of the debt?
Árd Macha
One thing to add to my previous post.
The rules on points deduction say the it SHALL be made if the insolvency event occurs.
There is no scope for discretion in the matter. Therefore the likes of Traynor and co. can forget about this provision not being imposed. It will happen and no one can do anything about it.
Seems like it’s getting closer.
I am watching the skies for that big tax asteroid.
pigalle
profound Decan.
Your insights are up there with those of traynor & keevins which is why i guess you “get” these fine journalists better than the majority of us.
Rispekt, ma man!
celtinal – i didnt know there was a k in rispekt. have i been spellnig that wrong too
ASonOfDan@12:19
I have heard much the same thing regards these trialists. Apparently TFPLG was not aware of their arrival until yesterday afternoon
Do not be surprised to see him walk away very soon
Goodnight all.
And special thanks to Declan for sending me off to slumber with a smile on my coupon.
TAL & HH
West Ham confident they are winning the Sellavic race.
As an aside to all the talk of the demise of ‘them’ and the parachuting of a new ‘them’ to the SPL, if you were in the position of having to do business with a regime that was in control of the old entity, that had all of its minging laundry, questionable business practices and business record etc, would you really want to furnish ‘them’ with a credit line and enter into any financial agreements with ‘them’ at all ????.
Guessing I wouldn’t.
Even if they somehow do survive, I think they are facing a long period of disillusionment and financial austerity – at best.
Whatever happens, perhaps the SPL its going to be a one horse race after all.
Paul67,
Great stuff. The more the media try and manufacture precedents for them, the more they show themselves for the biased idiots they are. Their team is in dire straits because they have cheated once (??) too often (maybe better: cheated the last person they should have the idiocy to do); something Scotland’s establishment has turned a blind eye to for too many years. Let them suffer for that cheating.
By the way, I hope that, if they are found guilty of cheating, we take them and the SFA/SPL to court for denying us the monies that would have accrued to us from participation in the Champions League. Our excellent lawyer, Paul McBride should be able to make a well argued case for this, I’m sure.
We could start a sweep on which CQNer is “Declan”.
My money’s on MWD, that ol rascal :-))
Gordon_J:
And right there, mate, is the first brick in the wall, the first part of stonewall strategy.
Hugh Keevins and others are talking about a “middle ground”, a “diplomatic compromise”. Even guys on here, like Auldheid, are talking about some form of SPL “agreement” which “punishes” Rangers but allows them entry.
This matter is not confusing. It’s pure and simple, and there is no middle road, and nor should there be. The “middle ground” option is the first Celtic needs to close down in discussion with the SFA/SPL.
There are TWO scenarios here, and ONLY two … and that should be our position.
1) Rangers NewCo is treated like any other club. History elimited. A proper application for a license. Division 3 start.
2) Rangers NewCo is allowed back into the SPL with no penalty because the SPL decides it’s own commercial interest (and the interests of Rangers) supercede the integrity of the game, the Exchequer, the taxpayer and the law of the land.
There should be no “agreement” outside these options, no way for the world to be presented with a “chastised” or “punished” Rangers, because both will be nothing but a gigantic fraud. The rules, as they stand, are either applied or they are not. If the SPL is allowing NewCo Rangers right back in, then let’s call it what it is and remove any doubt … it is a surrender to bullies and fraudsters which eliminates the need for financial fair play and sporting integrity, turns Scottish football into a “survival of the most ruthless” contest and destroys its reputation forever.
No middle way. No compromises. All or nothing.
And if they choose Rangers, we purely and simply have to submit our notice and take no further part in the whole corrupt, debased process.
Paul67 – fine work as ever sir!
James Forrest – It is not only the quality of your work I admire but the fact that you produce such lengthy, reasoned and articulate posts at such a rate!
Eurochamps67 – I, and a bus load of others, travel from newcastle to Glasgow every home game to do exactly what you say …to watch and support Celtic. The games I enjoy travelling to least and would happily forego are the ones against Poundland FC. Never for a fear of losing, just being subjected to their vile hate-filled songbook. It has been a dream of mine since ever I can remember that we never had to play them again. I’d rather we played in any league in the world than a league run for the benefit of one team – a team whose very existence for well over 100 years has fostered discrimination and is part of the reason why Scotland is the bigoted place it is.
Imagine a world where my Celtic, your Celtic, our Celtic is reported without contamination and the use of the OF term many of us despise. Imagine a world where our Celtic is not seen by many as one side of coin with them as the other.
Gordon_J
Sorry, Gordon. You are falling into the trap which I just explained.
If you read the articles, you will see that a club does not equal a company. Please tell me where it says that this is not the case and I will accept your argument. Once again I should say that the penalty is on the club not the owner. Therefore it does not mattter if the club, which is a separate entity, is owned by “Oldco” or “Newco”.
Bobby Murdoch
I have not read the post you refer to on RTC. However, I would be astounded of forehead if the SPL board could act ultra vires and no member of the league, including us, could do anything about it. If there is a proposed course of action which is legally impossible, I am confident we will be at the Court of Session obtaining an interdict to prevent it from happening.
hamiltontim says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:34
toss up ,MWD /Awe Naw
Declan Is Neil Lennon 1888 Hates being 2nd 23 January, 2012 at 13:31
“celtinal – i didnt know there was a k in rispekt. have i been spellnig that wrong too ”
There’s no f in respect. That’s why truth2565765 is posting on this site.
myboysnowatim says:
23 January, 2012 at 13:33
“Whatever happens, perhaps the SPL its going to be a one horse race after all.”
I am sure that there are referees and their assistants who will do their best to keep the league competitive.
Incidentally I will be away from the blog for a few hours.
I will try to catch up with any posts on this matter later on.
Catch22:
NuRangers to the SPL: ‘Hello, we’re NuRangers, same as the OldRangers, same strip (sort of), same management, staff, stadium etc Can we have our league place back please?’
HMRC to NuRangers: ‘Eh?, what you’re back in the SPL, you’re just the OldRangers– aren’t you! Give us our money’
OldRangers to the HMRC: ‘No no no, we’re totally different, nothing to do with those OldRangers, they owe you, not us.’
SPL to NuRangers/OldRangers/Whoever: ‘What you’re not the same as OldRangers now?, errmmm how can we give you your place back then?’
…or at least that’s how logic dictates it should be….
iki,
Aye, forgot about that.
The Honest Mistake – you thought there was an f in rispekt. not even my spellnig is that bad
ooops….and the rest of the post…
Imagine a world where our Celtic flourishes, where blatant cheating against us is a thing of the past. A world where the playing field is level. That is what I want for our Celtic. A world where we celebrate our Club in victory or defeat, safe in the knowledge that if we are defeated we are just that and not cheated.
What a world to leave kids and grandkids the world over. A world without Rangers. Heaven on Earth.
hamiltontim says:
23 January, 2012 at 12:50
Bjmac
Ya cheeky bizzum.
I had an extraordinarily tough paper round :-))
—————————————————–
You also didnae have a hood on yer pram when you were a wean!
Happy 50th:-))
Learning to use a computer?
Obviously not at your place of employment then? Unless you are actually Hugh Keevins…
I couldn’t be Declan… HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
I’m too busy laughing…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
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MWD
James Forrest,
Yes, anything else is a shoddy backroom deal that circumvents all established rules and procedures and says to the world that Rangers are bigger and more important than Scottish football.
As other posters have said before today, the huns want to have their cake and eat it too. And we cannot allow that to happen.
If they are allowed into the SPL because they are Rangers and Scottish football needs their fanbase and commerical pull, they they can pay off Rangers debts too.
If they are not Rangers, they are a new club with no history and no track record. They can apply to join the league structures at the bottom rung , but in competition with the likes of Forres Mechanics and Gala Fairydean.
Honest Mistake, a majority unsecured creditor can ask the court to appoint their nominated administrator.
iki, ha!
Parkheadcumsalford, indeed.
St Martin’s Bhoy, cheers.
“I’ve long said that capitalism without bankruptcy is like Christianity without hell. ”
Frank Borman retired astronaut
Penalties must be paid for fiscal imprudence or it will repeat itself ad nauseum.
Iniquities must be punished.
Presbyterian principles must be followed….can’t allow the relevant club to simply troop off to the SFA confessional and get off with a few Hail Hail Marys.
Sev
HT
Is that Joe90? Happy birthday.
Btw spelling is to good for MWD.
My monies on an outsider: 31003
HH
CRC
“It was huge because it means we can go into this break from league games still on top. Not only that, but by playing first for a change and winning, it put pressure on Rangers.
“We had a five-point lead by the time they kicked off against Aberdeen, which is something we have not had for a long time.
“They knew they had to win to bring it back to two points, and that can make teams very, very edgy.” Neil Lennon
“very, very edgy” is that polite for p1sh…
HH
Paul
You could borrow another precedent from Italian football. In 2002, Fiorentina were declared bankrupt and effectively ceased to exist. An Italian businessman Diego Della Valle set up a new club and called them Florentia Viola and were sucessful in their application to join Serie C2. The won promotion to Serie C1 but through a series of fortunate events, they were promoted up to Serie B. In 2003, the owners of the club purchased the name Fiorentina and were reincorporated as ACF Fiorentina.
Mort
Paul67 23 January, 2012 at 13:43:
“Honest Mistake, a majority unsecured creditor can ask the court to appoint their nominated administrator.”
Thanks Paul67.
That information fills my heart with hope.