We gave STV credit on Wednesday for their reporting on SPL voting process required to decide what to do if a new company applies to join the league after an existing team ceases to exist (through prepack or other means).
I subsequently noticed in the same article they suggest Leeds United went into liquidation and returned with a phoenix prepack. This is incorrect. Leeds United, then in administration, were sold in 2007 to Ken Bates’ newly formed company, with Bates agreeing a deal with creditors. Leeds were, therefore, only liable for the statutory 10 point penalty for entering administration, although the league increased the punishment to 15 points as the club failed to follow correct administration procedure.
I don’t wish to harangue STV on what was an article with genuine information but they cite Leeds as a precedent: “there is no guarantee that the Scottish Premier League would act in the same way as their counterparts in England but the similarities between the regulations mean that the precedent may be used as a guide”.
If I was Rangers right now I would be trying to convince everyone that putting a football club out of existence, only to allow another company to pick up its league share, with a points total calculated from the position of the former club, is similar to a common administration. It’s not. This would be a completely different scenario.
Having discussed this matter with many people throughout the game and the media, I can find no precedent for a football club going out of existence and phoenix-ing back into the same league spot.
Airdrieonians failed in 2008, when the owners of Clydebank FC moved to Airdrie and renamed to Airdrie United. Gretna FC were voted into the space created by the absence of Airdrieonians (then a Second Division team), but entered at the bottom of the Scottish Football League.
Gretna failed in 2008 and a new club based at the same ground successfully applied for membership of the East of Scotland Football League. Annan Athletic entered the bottom rung of the Scottish Football League after Gretna’s demise, not into the First Division spot Gretna were unable to fulfil. Third Lanark were in the bottom division of the Scottish Football League when they were replaced by Clydebank.
Gretna-Annan, Clydebank-Gretna, Third Lanark-Clydebank are the only precedents that exist. If you fail, the team that replaces you joins the bottom rung of the Scottish senior league structure, there have been no exceptions, in Scotland or in England.
The SFA have a say in this matter also. They must ratify any decision of the SPL board and grant a licence to a new club before if can play in the SPL or Scottish Football League. The national association is made up of member clubs, most of whom stand to gain considerably if a Rangers Newco FC were to enter the Scottish Football League.
Irrespective of the SPL’s decision, the SFA better have some pretty good lawyers if they deviate from precedent. The football authorities have a duty to ensure their competitions observe meritocratic and moral correctness. It’s only ‘fit and proper.
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voguepunter 20:49
I take great joy in searching for ‘sir walter’s’ name in these things.
Everton fella I work with wont even talk to me when I ask of the tactically inept legned’s time with them.
EN
E N
Nuff said :O)
SwanseaBhoy @ 20:40
Already been answered by RTC:
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/11/02/borrow/comment-page-13/#comment-22292
Basically, nothing relevant.
Swansea Bhoy
Just having a chat with Mrs EDB. I reckon CW is a total chancer but I couldn’t accuse DD or Fergus of being of that ilk.
Has anyone been watching ‘worlds craziest fools’ on bbc3?
very funny
VP
‘Treme’. Best show on the box.
Check out Spider Tracey’s New Orleans version
of ‘Come Out you Black and Tans’
Would that be a criminal offence in Scotland
under the new legislation ?
notthebus says:
4 November, 2011 at 20:46
Most significant thing for me from the skool cooncil ‘meeting’ with the heidy was that there didn’t appear to be any ‘football’ questions worthy of noting.
Human rockets on display at Pacific Quay on 5th November, roll-up.
EDB
I thank you.
Aye had a beer or two with Auldheid, jeez can he talk :>) was a good few hours in his and his wifes company, a freind of theirs was also there, she was a diamond as well.
The women talked as women do and we/he talked Celtic.
I am glad Auldheid and his kind are on our side, he told me of a few things in the pipeline, can’t say but they made me feel better about the current situation, he’s like a Jack Russel on a mission, that was his wife’s description of him, and I have to say she is spot on.
AAFG
for some it doesn`t matter how Sammy plays …they will always miscall him
Samaras was the best player we had last night …he set up two goals , regularly ran the opposition ragged and put in a tremendous shift
contrast favourite son Pat Mccourt …dreadful last night …but he`s allowed to be poor cause he`s one of the bhoys
swanseabhoy
ditto …great last hour last night ..atmosphere was great ,players worked really hard …good night of football
Good evening CQNers and CQN footie quizzards
The Friday nite footie quiz is back after a wee break.
Rules are quite simple. To score you must post the correct answer before I post the answers.
Everybody welcome to join in, with the winner gaining the honour of being CQN footie quiz
king for the week, and a prize of selecting the first music link for the night
Hail Hail, take part and enjoy
Round 1 follows!
CRC
EWO
and my questions ??
Round 1: If You know your history?
(2pts per correct answer if you are first to answer correctly, 1pt if you answer correctly but not first. Remember one submission only per round)
1 Which London club did Martin O’Neill finish his playing career at?
2 How much did Kenny Dalglish cost Liverpool when he left the Hoops(£250,000, £375,000, £440,000 or 550,000)
3 Which 2 English clubs did John Collins play for?
4 What season did Paul Lambert sign for the Hoops?
5 How many times did Celtic win the League cup under Jock Stein’s management? (3,4,5 or 6)
6 Who managed Celtic from 1897 to 1940?
7 Which Lisbon Lion started his football career with Queens Park as a 14 year old?
….PFayr says:
4 November, 2011 at 20:58
Well said about Sammy. The numpty’s in front of me gave him abuse the whole game, I bit my lip until the Hooper goal then let rip, “he’s still pish”………………..
Went to see Steve Earle the other week at the O2 and he mentioned something from the stage about being in a tv show. I think he said it was Treme but I didn’t quite catch what he said. What channel is it on?
G64
most definately.
Whilst most of the current focus is on Rangers future, there is also an aspect of their past that will depend on the outcome of the FTT.
What happens to Rangers has to do with the SFA and SPL and the principle behind a 10 point deduction is that by paying players rather than other creditors the club gained an unfair advantage over their competitors.
But this advantage goes back to 2000 when they started to use EBTs to keep pace with Celtic and continued from 2007 when rather than make provision for paying their taxes they entered further debt to win three titles.
This principle will still apply regardless of how they deal with administration/insolvency/oldco/newco but it is in danger of being overlooked in the debate about how Scottish football can survive the demise of Rangers.
If the FTT decides for HMRC that will make the taxpayer the victim of Ranger’s behaviour, but who will decide if other clubs have been footballing victims, to what extent and what is just punishment?
Rangers and Rangers alone put themselves in this position and in doing so gained an unfair advantage for years that possibly deprived other clubs including Celtic of income they might otherwise have earned.
They have to be found guilty of damaging their fellow clubs but who is going to bring the charge never mind make a just judgement that the principle that underpins a points deduction for punishing clubs demands?
They should be stripped of their titles since 2000 whatever form they continue under if HMRC get a judgement that Rangers in using EBTs committed a foul of red card proportions.
Last night turned into one of those times that you can really enjoy being a Tim- though I must say that for the first 25 minutes I was thinking “here we go again”. It wasnt the result that I enjoyed so much last night, though that helped. It was the dig the players showed- harrying the Rennes players every time they got the ball. Kayal was his old self and Wan67 looks solid. The defence really upped their game and our forwards did what good forwards should do- score with every chance they get. Dont get carried away yet Bhoys- we have a poor record in games following Thursday Euro matches, and we will get nothing from the MIB at the sandpit on Sunday. As for Sammi- accept that he plays to potential once every 30 games or so, he has been the same with every club he has been at. Despite this I have a wee feeling that Sunday might well be ours
1 Which London club did Martin O’Neill finish his playing career at? Fulham
2 How much did Kenny Dalglish cost Liverpool when he left the Hoops(£250,000, £375,000, £440,000 or 550,000) 440 k
3 Which 2 English clubs did John Collins play for? Fulham Everton
4 What season did Paul Lambert sign for the Hoops? 97/98
5 How many times did Celtic win the League cup under Jock Stein’s management? (3,4,5 or 6) 6
6 Who managed Celtic from 1897 to 1940? Willie Maley
7 Which Lisbon Lion started his football career with Queens Park as a 14 year old? Ronnie Simpson
1 Which London club did Martin O’Neill finish his playing career at? qpr
2 How much did Kenny Dalglish cost Liverpool when he left the Hoops(£250,000, £375,000, £440,000 or 550,000) 440000
3 Which 2 English clubs did John Collins play for? everton ?
4 What season did Paul Lambert sign for the Hoops? 1998
5 How many times did Celtic win the League cup under Jock Stein’s management? (3,4,5 or 6) 3
6 Who managed Celtic from 1897 to 1940? WillieMaley – still a world record
7 Which Lisbon Lion started his football career with Queens Park as a 14 year old? willie wallace
1 Which London club did Martin O’Neill finish his playing career at?BRENTFORD
2 How much did Kenny Dalglish cost Liverpool when he left the Hoops(£250,000, £375,000, £440,000 or 550,000)440,000
3 Which 2 English clubs did John Collins play for?EVERTON,FULHAM
4 What season did Paul Lambert sign for the Hoops?98/99
5 How many times did Celtic win the League cup under Jock Stein’s management? (3,4,5 or 6)5
6 Who managed Celtic from 1897 to 1940?WILLIE MALEY
7 Which Lisbon Lion started his football career with Queens Park as a 14 year old?
The Smallest CSC
Despite the fact you dashed my hopes, cheers anyway.
SwanseaBhoy
1 wycombe
2 440,000
3 fulham everton
4 9798
5 5
6 willie maley
7 bertie
crc
Have all the other quiz competitors gone bankrupt?
Good evening friends, sorry I’m late. Have we started…
Jobo
….PFayr says:
4 November, 2011 at 20:58
I gues we run about in completely different circles – I watched the game in Belfast – where you might assume the allegience to McCourt would be even greater with friends and not one of us wanted to see him running out for the 2nd half.
Its not about having favourites and having personal vendettas – its about calling a spade a spade.
All I want is what is best for Celtic – for anyone to choose to be blinkered toward certain individuals would clearly be to the detrement of that.
Having our own favourites is a natural part of the game for many , we all need hero’s; McStay was my first I think, Paul Elliot another, Di Canio, Henrik, Sutton, Kayal had the potential to be one..
The likes of McCourt – goodness gracious give my head peace.
A spade is a spade.
Samaras had a good game yesterday. Fact.
He made a massive difference.
Do we need to wait another 30 games to get the next one? Based on history – quite possibly.
Is that good enough? No.
Which London club did Martin O’Neill finish his playing career at? wycomb wanderers
2 How much did Kenny Dalglish cost Liverpool when he left the Hoops(£250,000, £375,000, £440,000 or 550,000) 440,000
3 Which 2 English clubs did John Collins play for? fulham everton
4 What season did Paul Lambert sign for the Hoops? 1997/98
5 How many times did Celtic win the League cup under Jock Stein’s management? (3,4,5 or 6) 3
6 Who managed Celtic from 1897 to 1940? willie maley
7 Which Lisbon Lion started his football career with Queens Park as a 14 year old? ronnie simpson
Martin Keogh said our defence stood like a line of manikins. Hard to argue with that. IM sure big Dan did a pirouette on one leg.
just watched night at the museum with mini BT..
that Ben Stiller bhoy had the huns crying…
does he work for HMRC?
Fulham.
440.000.
Fulham, Everton.
1997/98.
6.
Willie Maley.
Ronnie Simpson.
Jobo Baldie says:
4 November, 2011 at 21:07
Still time!!
back to front for me…
not been on all day so reading back
1 Wycombe
2 440K
3 Fulham Everton
4 97-98
5 5
6 Willie Maley
7 Ronnie Simpson
setting free the bears says:
4 November, 2011 at 21:06
think there just giving you a chance :-)
oooops
quiz time..
laterzzzzzzzz
1 Wycombe
2. £440K
3. Everton, Fulham
4. 1997/8
5. 5
6. Willey Maley
7. Ronnie Simpson
Jobo
EWQ,
Sorry for butting in, but, Sammi is not a striker. Never was a striker and never claimed to be a striker.
When asked when he joined the club about his best position, he said that he liked to play in the channels, setting up chances for his team mates.
Lazy journalism and managers playing him out of position have caused him to be dubbed “a striker who doesn’t score goals”
He is a midfield player and a good one at that.
TET, EDB, AAFG,
It may be an age thing, but you lads have the game in Scotland well sussed.
The Save the Huns Campaign never existed until four years ago, when Murray announced that they had money problems and had to trim their costs.
Prior to that, all we had was Establishment Supremacy mode; and that was bad enough.
There is only one game in progress this year and it isn’t taking place on any football field.
Anything else, is a side show.
PFayr
Couldn’t agree more with your points about Sammi and Paddy.
Fruitcake behind me ‘unhappy’ that Paddy was taken off while Sammi stayed on the pitch. Guy in front of me saying get Sammi tae f.
Sometimes wonder if it’s me. He was easily our best player.
Kayal showed real spark and fight and young Angus Fraser…..how good must he feel today after his debut?
We’re far from the best football team in the world but they’re my football team and last night was an absolute pleasure.
SwanseaBhoy
crc
Contrary to what my wife says, I am not usually the fastest.