As six Celtic fans face the prospect of months in a Dutch jail if police evidence is preferred, take a look at this CCTV video from the Euro Pub in Dam Square:
This is no more than the strong bullying the vulnerable. It is shocking and affected more than just Celtic fans, other innocent bystanders were picked on.
What can you do about it? We’re looking for around 40 more bucketeers to collect before the Aberdeen game on Saturday for the legal defence of the six Celtic fans. You’ll need to get to the stadium a bit early, bucket shaking will be required. That’s all.
If you can help, email dambhoys8@yahoo.co.uk for more information. You’ll enjoy it.
Thank you.
Remember the Q&A in the Columba Club, Blantyre, tomorrow. I’ll be there with Phil Mac Giolla Bhain and Paul McConville. Tickets available at the door, we get underway at 8pm. See you there.
If you have not been to Celtic Park since the last home game, be prepared for pandemonium around London Road on Saturday. No one will be able to walk or drive from London Road up Kerrydale Street to the Park. Check out the open routes here and get there early.
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an open letter to every champions league club – past and present – from Celtic urging them not to take any fans to Amsterdam due to fan safety issues might raise a few eyebrows across Europe
Mornin CQNrs
from a frosty clear north Glasgow
Feel dismayed at the Amsterdam’s courts decisions and its willingness to make our supporters out as criminals. We know the truth and the continued struggle to shine a light on it will help those currently in despair because of the police lies and judges willingness to hear the evidence he choose as relevant.
Support the appeals and end the despair.
HH
Morning all
Woke up to the news that England were all out for 136 and that PeteC is a follower of the sport. Both surprises.
Seen lists of countries we should or should not stay away from as fans. I’ll go where I want if I can get time of work. Except Amsterdam.
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Morning all from gay Paree, a cloudy 3C.
Sickened at the last night’s verdict.
The hooligan police get compensation for attacking football supporters.
The football supporters get jail time for fighting for their lives.
The only good thing is that the bhoys can get back, take stock and appeal.
They need our moral and financial support.
I’m sure they’ll get it.
YNWA
That hurting hun herbison loving reporting the news…
Radio turned off…
En route to work, still shocked at what the Dutch call ‘ a justice system’
Poor ghuys, scapegoats for police brutality.
They never stood a chance.
We have to stand together in solidarity for our ghuys , fund the appeals.
Our day will come !
On this fiftieth anniversary, RIP JFK a true visionary and history maker, a mere mortal but one with a social conscience .
Yesterday and 50 years ago.
2 days when the bad guys won
Tom McLaughlan…..I was only 6 years old when JFK was assassinated, I still remember it to this day, my granny was watching me and I had just come back from the ice cream van when the news flashed up in the old black and white telly, even at that age I felt very sad, in the days of poor world communications we still knew about JFK.
may god rest his soul
Edinburgh jury, Dutch judge…
Dutch judge, Edinburgh jury…
Edinburgh jury, Dutch judge…
Dutch judge, Edinburgh jury…
Edinburgh jury, Dutch judge…
Dutch judge, Edinburgh jury…
East of Scotland, West of Holland…
West of Holland, East of Scotland…
John Calvin like a good walk and a wee sail.
One of the more reasoned articles re the events in Amsterdam………
TBM
http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/celtic-fans-tarred-scottish-media-go-dutch
Morning Bhoys , Ghirls and Lurkers
Still in shock after last nights verdict! Thanks to each and everyone of you who have pledged their time tomorrow truly showing these bhoys they won’t walk along!
We have just about reached our quota on buckateers on behalf of everyone involved thank you.
Special thanks to HT, TTTT and CRC who answered the call to help without hesitation. As they always do!
The Celtic Trust have been an amazing support to these families never underestimate the amount of time and effort they have put in . They have been a life support to the bhoys.
Dig deep tomorrow and help us to help them.
The headline feature on the official site this morning – ‘Nana’s shot was heard around the world’ is a funding disgrace. Today of all days paraphrasing this quote (albeit it was first used for events in 1914 rather than 1963) is crass and insensitive.
Morning.
Folks ,
In light of the recent decision in Amsterdam.
The Kano Foundation has been offered a pair of investor lounge tickets for Saturday’s game against Aberdeen . We are offering them for a raffle to anyone wanting to enter.
ALL funds raised will be donated to the Amsterdam Fund.
The cost is £1 per entry , you can enter as many times as you want . Raffle is open until 11pm tonight and winner will be notified by 11:30pm tonight .
In order to keep the funds separate , please submit your raffle fee , through paypal to sannabhoy@thekanofoundation.com .
You must be able to get to Celtic Park by 1.00pm on Saturday 23/11/13.
Please include contact details on your entry (mobile or email).
You can enter as many times as you want.
You must agree to abide by Celtic FC’s conditions for entry to Investor Lounge , i.e. smart casual with no sportswear , trainers or football tops.
Thank you for your Support
The Kano Foundation
Minx
I followed the text on here until about 3am local time…. to be honest .. I could see the verdicts coming.
Woke to read the verdicts as expected … still raging . Especially the compo to the thug police.
Can I ask you to double the contribution I asked you to make on my behalf and I will square you up when I get back beginning of dec.
How much are the general celtic support aware of the collection ?
The Internet bampots will know but what about the rest of the hoops
Could someone do a fb post and everyone share it to widen the knowledge
Good whatever it is wherever you are in Timland……
Past midday here in the desert, black outside an it’s pissin down (apols to the offended)…. Weather mirrors the mood and still trying to comprehend the “judgements”.
I’m disappointed with the judgement that came from the courts in Amsterdam, I never pass a comment on something when I wasn’t an eye witness to the events, but there seems to be a change in the way that Police seem to be handling games with us. I’ve been to Barcelona for the last three games we have competed against them, two of the games passed without any problems, but, in the game last year we were kettled for up to an hour in exit ways that would have been classed as dangerous if there had been a bit of pushing by our support, we were held in the stairwells when leaving the Stadium, it would have been the last place I would have thought safe to kettle 6.000 supporters,but there again, I’m only a stupid Celtic supporter.
I thought, after last nights judgement that we should make a statement that will be noticed by the footballing fraternity and thought about a protest that would have people talking where ever the are, similar to the usual displays we have before games, but hold up black placards, and say nothing for a minute, just like a minutes silence, I’m sure it would have the media talking, and asking questions, a spokesman can then say that the display is in commemoration of the Amsterdam five, and the injustice of the legal system administered in the courts of Amsterdam.
A bit late in the day for this to happen,but we have to act in some way.
TBJ – will do
It is all over social media no chance of the press picking it up though unless of course it’s in a negative way
I`m disappointed about the sentences passed yesterday and I feel for the victims. It may be time for a rethink about how supporters pass their time prior to these matches in foreign cities. I don`t think that drinking in the open is viewed very well by the locals.
My immediate hope is that the Bhoys who are going to Barcelona have a good experience.
Benny from last night – what a pathetic post. The old St Mirren attack. I do find it amusing how a lie becomes a truth in some small minds.
Big cup winners – shame on you for participating in it.
Still awiting a celtic statement. Funny how the convictions are lead stories on the BBC and on the front pages of the gutter press.
Mornin fholks,
Anyone got a link to the Scotland on Sunday article, reference our supporters being a marxist socialist threat in need of crushing by certain authorities? Can’t seem to find it on the SOS website, or anywhere actually.
See here: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/?p=7188
Perhaps the culprits “paid for their google history to be deleted”?
Thanks in advance, will need to catch later if anyone can help. Off oot.
Saddened but not surprised by the verdicts last night. I wasn’t in Amsterdam so I’m unable to say whether the verdicts are correct or not. It is a fact that the police used violence. It is a fact that Celtic supporters generally have a good reputation built up over many years of travelling around Europe.
However, I suspect that in just about any jurisdiction in Europe, if a judge is faced with a decision between the testimony of Police Officers and the word of a visiting football fan, who may have been drinking, there is only going to be one outcome.
I’m no legal expert, but for any individual appeal to be successful it will need to focus on the facts of the alleged incidents, not merely the generality of police violence or Celtic supporters’ well earned reputation.
I hope they appeal and I hope they succeed.
Ianinascoli
I know what you mean but nobody in Milan – during fashion week when the streets were filled with even more beautiful people than usual- seemed to mind. Indeed many locals including police wanted to get photos taken with us.
I’ve been in the Dam before and despite the city having a chilled out , civilised reputation the cops are the jumpiest I’ve ever seen
But point taken
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
Sannabhoy
Make it the large
Hail Hail
in all european cities have # celtic football fans visited without problems . Except in Amsterdam
AmsterDAMNing evidence . Ajax fans attack Celtic fans during the day, cops dressed as Ajax fans try to do the same. What did they expect. !!
All my away day trips I only ever saw Celtic fans celebrating, over celebrating at times but not attacking. This is an attack on our history. Fight this one. There will be supporters in the Netherlands. It will not be reported in the rags but this needs to be sorted. Can I donate from here ?
Jimbo67
Fair point about Milan. This episode has put me off even thinking about ever going to Amsterdam.
NegAnon2, I have clashed with you a couple of times but I know and totally accept you are a committed Tim and anyone inferring otherwise would need to cop themselves on.
Re the verdict I’m annoyed but calm and determined to play my small part in fighting back. Part1 is to raise as big a fighting fund as possible and also to make the views of the wider Celtic Support clear to everyone. To our own Club, to the Dutch, to EUEFA, to the Media, to the world. Our bhoys were brutally attacked we have the video evidence, when they were attacked, we were all attacked, if they are guilty, we are all guilty.Lets not score petty points on this one, clappers & shafters unite. We are stronger when we are one.
PJBhoynyc
05:03 on 22 November, 2013
Never forget that there is nothing new under the Sun. I have Roberto’s, kindly donated by a Guid Man, who is mair into gambling than moi, book sitting on top of a death claim by my caring Supranational Company. 1.5 weeks ago I came across a person who has never cashed a checque frae the merchant bankers.
The KLF are MAD? aye right!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVRrfmjVCgY
America
Ianinascoli
Ditto.
To work
Jimbo67 supporting Oscar Knox
ianinascoli not at all mate. Should we change because of state fascism? In Stuttgart the police , the locals , everyone enjoyed tie Celtic support from all corners of Europe drinking in the open having a party. I spoke to an old fella in the square which was decked in green white and gold , twice as big as george square sausage. I asked him where he was from. Ukraine. Why was he in the square. He came down to see the Celtics party. Want a beer . No . Go on. ok then danke. Every supermarket and bottlestore was dry , the early morning squad had a job, the polis were uber friendly joining in and having a very low key laugh. A’Damn didn’t do itself any favours.
From J.P Taylor on Twitter
@CelticFCSLO: Many of us at the Club followed the case throughout yesterday to its conclusion, it’s a hugely important issue and will not be ignored
HH
Cowiebhoy. gotcha
It is truly astonishing how the Sevconians recommend a business model for their favourite club which they would never tolerate in ANY other circumstances.
A simple guide:
Activity Assessment Assigned To Beneficiary
Expense Negative Company Rangers
Income Positive Club Rangers
Fine Negative Company Rangers
Prizes Positive Club Rangers
Bad News Negative Company Rangers
Good News Positive Club Rangers
Debt Negative Company Rangers
Administration Negative Company Rangers
Liquidation Negative Company Rangers
Death Negative Company Rangers
With such a business model, I don’t know why it isn’t adopted by all business courses at every teaching establishment throughout the world.
lymmbhoy
09:20 on 22 November, 2013
From J.P Taylor on Twitter
@CelticFCSLO: Many of us at the Club followed the case throughout yesterday to its conclusion, it’s a hugely important issue and will not be ignored
HH
“……………..”……….
Good to know, will await development in whatever form it materialises……..
Welcome to our new £100,000 signing.
The Iceman!!!
Good Morning.
On Tuesday evening a teacher in my local high school was able to tell me that my son had just completed his latest module in Modern Studies. When I asked what it was on ( immediately revealing that the wee blighter does not discuss his schoolwork with me! ) the teacher replied ” Crime and Punishment”.– which kind of floored me.
From a very early age most people in Scotland have at least a passing idea of what our justice system is based on in certain areas.
For a crime to be committed the prosecution has to prove that the crime was in fact committed beyond a reasonable doubt, and the way that they do this is to hear testimony or rely on forensic or other third party evidence such photographs, video, blood samples or what have you.
But the corner stone is “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Explained simply this means that a judge cannot just opt for one story or another. Instead he or she has to be able to say “beyond a reasonable doubt” that the facts of the case have been established before he or she can convict. If they are not established beyond a reasonable doubt then the court MUST acquit the accused.
I recall arguing before a judge where there were two sides to a story in a criminal trial, and in so doing I used the phrase ” But if you are looking for the truth, then I have to suggest that you look at….. blah blah blah.”
Very quickly, the wizened old voice from the bench interrupted me. ” But I am not looking for the truth — that is not the standard the court is asked to reach– it is far too high. The standard is whether I can find that these charges were committed beyond a reasonable doubt– and can I do so on the basis of reliable and creditable evidence? If not, I must acquit.”
And in this case– acquit he did.
That is the law in this country.
In Holland, you may be surprised to learn that the law at trial is not much different.
Their standard of proof in criminal cases is based on the principle of establishing the
substantive truth. This is expressed in the Dutch Code of Criminal Procedure (CCP)
(Nederlandse Wetboek van Strafvordering (Sv)) in the requirement that a judge may
assume that the offense charged is proven only if he ‘is convinced of it”.
This means that a high degree of certainty must exist that the accused has committed the offense.
Further, whether the accused committed the offense charged must not be assumed (in principle).
The court has to hear reliable and credible evidence from two sources ( of course the SNP and the Lord Advocate are trying to remove that particular necessity from our own justice system at the minute ) and the provisions on admissible
evidence do not contain any rules on the reliability of the evidence or how it is gathered.
Consequently, unreliable or illegally gathered evidence is admissible in itself as legal
evidence.
Evidence can, however, be excluded: evidence admissible in itself may be set
aside because of its unreliability or the way it was gathered. So, in normal circumstances if a policeman beats the crap out of you and extracts a confession that confession would not be reliable.
In such a case, the judge does not use that evidence as a basis for his opinion on whether the offence charged was committed.
Further, in Holland, there are no minimum evidence rules and so virtually anything can be used as evidence– third party statements, video and what have you.
And the point of this lecture on Dutch Law?
Well having taken the time to make a brief– and I do mean brief— study of the Dutch system it strikes me that all is far from lost.
Yesterday’s short trial limited the evidence available to the court to a certain extent as I understand it. It was a “short ” trial with any appeal being a full trial before 3 more senior judges– and in this hearing no evidence will be excluded as far as I am aware— all subject to Dutch law as I understand it.
However, yesterday saw the Dutch Police officers give their evidence in full. For the judge to acquit the 5 accused he would have to have found that those officers were unreliable or had lied… and regrettably, in my experience, Courts have a tendency to “prefer” the evidence of a man in uniform.
However if, at a later full trial, evidence can be presented which casts doubt– considerable doubt— on the reliability of the testimony of the police officers then the accused should get “the benefit of the doubt” as they say here, or as they might put it in Holland, the benefit of “the substantive truth” in so far as it can be established.
We may take umbrage with the court, and even the police officers in this case– however the real villain of the peace is the Noodbevel Law as declared by the Mayor– where all proper policing procedures are effectively suspended on a whim making the conduct of the police as seen in the numerous videos perfectly legal according to the technicalities of the law.
Further, that law means that even when they react with extreme force and violence which would not otherwise be acceptable, the evidence of what they say they saw and did is admissible and acceptable to the court– unless there is directly contradicting evidence from another reliable source
Amsterdam is not a city which is governed correctly. It is governed poorly because of the application of a bad law–a law that leads to repeated conflict and aggression when implemented by the authorities.
Here, we have a bad law. Fortunately the courts here have stated that it is bad law on a number of occasions and there is a widespread call for a review. Bad law makes for bad government– and the consequences are not clever.
The 5 will come from home from Amsterdam and will be glad to be back with their families.
However, they will come back convicted with all the consequences that this brings to their jobs and their everyday status. Accordingly there may be more grief– a different type of grief– still to come.
Celtic Football Club are now in a difficult position as the 5 have been through a due process and stand convicted. How do Celtic react in terms of season tickets and so on?
As yet we do not know.
However, there are aspects of this whole affair that are deeply troubling away from the courts.
Why did Sky News deliberately doctor its footage to remove the images of a police officer kicking a Celtic fan while his colleagues restrained him ? How did that assist accurate reporting or the judicial process in Holland?
Why has no newspaper conducted any sort of inquiry into the civil law in Amsterdam and the use of the Noodbevel provisions leaving Scottish readers completely in the dark about Dutch Law?
I have long held the view that I would never give a penny to sky– I care not about what football or movies they offer I will not give them a solitary dime as I do not believe them to be a truthful and reliable news organisation.
Today’s Daily Record will be defended on the basis that all they are reporting are the facts from the court.
Well, the editor should remember the experience of the so called SUN newspaper which does not sell too many copies in Liverpool these days as a result of jumping on a Police fed bandwagon that ultimately turned out to be none too reliable. Equally I recall seeing photographs like that before when jews were “processed according to the law” in Nazi Germany. Technically that was the law…… but………!
Finally– WeefratheTim—- I did not know know about the Dutch Law before the events in Amsterdam two weeks ago and so could not warn anyone about the regime that is in situ there.
I wish I had looked into it as my advice would be as it is now.
DO NOT GO TO AMSTERDAM AS YOU RISK YOUR LIBERTY IN THE FACE OF A BAD LAW AND AN AGGRESSIVE AND UNRESTRAINED POLICE FORCE.
Celtic fans traveling abroad anywhere– and I am a huge fan of the very principle of taking the Celtic message to as many lands as possible— should be very wary and very circumspect after innocently walking into what might be described as the City of the DAMned!
jimbo67,
This series should be amazing, especially as the Aussies are coming into the series in poor form.
Wan thing ye dinnae dae is, right off an Aussie team in a series like this.
Just in to say….
The Celtic fans efforts to support the Amsterdam ‘6’ have been as usual impeccable beyond belief. The last time that I heard that accolade being attributed to the Celtic fans was when – Hugh Keevins said on SSB that – “The Celtic fans observation of the mins silence for the victims of the Ibrox disaster was – ‘impeccable beyond belief’ and, how some folk can say that the fans ‘coughed’ their way through the tribute is unbelievable.” Hugh got a kick at rival Bill Leckie from the ‘Sun’s attempt to smear the image of the Celtic fans. Only saying.
Now, again the ‘rally round the flag’ nature of the support is again very much in evidence. imo
But, does this second nature thingy leave the Celtic fans vulnerable for exploitation ?
Many won’t see that side of things – that could be their downfall. imo
The Celtic support will continue to do what only they can do and, their efforts will surprise no one.
But, at what point will Celtic’s hierarchy pick up the baton and come out and get everyone onto the same page by announcing – something along the lines of…..”We as always expect the fans to defend their own in the ‘unique’ way that only they can, and we will always aplaude them for this as they have already garnered a reputation which see’s them, leagues ahead of anyone. But there comes a time when, we as a club, must ‘all’ be on the same page – that time is now. So, we would like to ask the fans to keep their hard earned money in their pockets and we – the directors – will deal with the Amsterdam issue from this point forward.”
Surely that wouldn’t be too hard ?
HH
(Try again)
It is truly astonishing how the Sevconians recommend a business model for their favourite club which they would never tolerate in ANY other circumstances.
A simple guide:
Activity_________Assessment____Assigned_To____Beneficiary
Expense__________Negative______Company________Rangers
Income___________Positive______Club___________Rangers
Fines____________Negative______Company________Rangers
Tax______________Negative______Company________Rangers
Prizes___________Positive______Club___________Rangers
Bad_News_________Negative______Company________Rangers
Good_News________Positive______Club___________Rangers
Debt_____________Negative______Company________Rangers
Administration___Negative______Company________Rangers
Liquidation______Negative______Company________Rangers
Death____________Negative______Company________Rangers
With such a business model, I don’t know why it isn’t adopted by all business courses at every teaching establishment throughout the world.
Tauranga bhoy:
I had an identical experience in Stuttgart, cracking weekend and the cops were first rate.
Really saddened to see the support sullied in this way. My lad was in Amterdam but fortunately managed to avoid any of the police violence. Can only imagine how the family’s of these victims are feeling…