I’m very pleased the SPL have charged Hearts over the failure to pay players on time, the action shows a much needed appetite to tackle financial laxity in the game. A battle for the hearts and minds of Scottish football lies ahead where the integrity of our competitions will be up for grabs. Should Rangers lose their HMRC tribunal, which is due to conclude today, how the SPL reacts will forever establish if we have an open, free and fair league, or if we are cowed by a club we would all rather live without – irrespective of the cost.
We should applaud Neil Doncaster as his league colleagues for their determination not to be diverted from their course by Hearts in the face of some absolutely atrocious misrepresentation of the facts emanating from media sources close to Romanov.
The weeks ahead will require all parties to adhere rigorously to the spirit of Financial Fair Play, membership rules and precedent.
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273 Comments- Pages:
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iPaddy McCourt
Don’t swallow the propaganda – nature and business abhor a vacuum – it will be filled. You may also be too young to remember the great jousts we used to have with Dundee Utd, Aberdeen and even Hibs back in the 80’s before der Hun raided everybody’s bank account! – remember Laker Airways? Woolworths? The Warsaw Pact? – nothing is irreplaceable….cept the TIC
Hail hail
If the new-look SPL brought back Kendo Nagasaki, The Legendary Masked Wrestler and Mystic, then all this interminable RTC shenanigans would be worthwhile.
If Rangers lose the tax case then the only thing I believe we can say with certainty is this:-
if there is any element of discretion to be exercised or a vote to be held at all then we will be disappointed at the outcome.
Really heartening to see the SFA robustly challenging Hearts on their financial irregularities……..
philvis
You’ve sussed me.
In case you dont know, scouse is liverpool’s irish stew!
Dont know if it made the papers up there in sweaty sockland but the real life terry o’sullivan is up on a murder charge. He is a self-confessed drugs runner and his defence(?) is that he was innocently waiting outside in the car whilst his mates murdered some poor sod! Life imitating art or confirmation of your prejudices. I suspect you choose the latter!
At least scousers are generous (with their own money, unlike the huns!)
HH
HH
In the absence of wiki today I feel naked.
I hate to think what the world would be like without google.
Modren life is no longer rubbish. It’s Official!
James Forrest is Lennon says:
18 January, 2012 at 12:54
Let me tell you where the “smoking gun” is here, alright? Let me highlight it for you.
The press, and SFA, are saying Whyte “discovered” this bill during due dillegence.
That is a load of cobblers. Let’s put it in English. He “uncovered” it during it due dillegence. God knows how long the previous board had been sitting on it. God knows how long they’d be in possesion of the final demand.
Did they disclose it to the SFA? No, they didn’t. Regan’s statement makes that manifestly clear. Rangers should not have been granted a license last season, it is plain, it is obvious, it is a pure and simple fact. Both Whyte and Regan have admitted that the bill was not disclosed to people when it arrived at Ibrox, and that asks questions as to how long it was in Rangers’ possession.
The first we heard of it was when Rangers admitted it existed, but said that Whyte was liable for it if he bought the club. But the day when we became aware of it, which according to Regan is all that matters – shame on him for such spinelessness – is not the day on which it became payable.
That’s what we need answers to.
Your posts are always spot on and I’m glad we have you on our side matey.
I honestly believe if they goto the wall then the SFA/SPL/Media will do everything in their power to help them, they will never allow them into the 3rd division and the tv deal proves it.
If they are found guilty then they are cheats plain and simples and they should be punished but i have a bad feeling in the back of my mind saying they will receive minimum punishment.
Only my opinion though..
I was also ranting on here weeks ago that i knew something wasn’t right about that licence granted to them, if they admitted it was wrong then it proves they are a corrupt organisation and it won’t happen, this would rock scottish football if they admitted something dodgy was done with previous regime.
Afternoon bhoys, the sun is out, tis warm and hun free.
ernie
A pantomime for halfwits.
Brilliant :>)
Does anyyone honestly think that the hun will simply cease to exist for all eternity?
it’s not going to happen!
Regardless of the fall-out following an adverse decision by the tax tribunal, there will be a team with the word ‘Rangers’ in their title, based in the south side of Glasgow and wearing blue shirts, white shorts and black n red socks. If they are not allowed into the SPL then they will be allowed into the third division and will soon be back in the top flight following successive promotions.
For the avoidance of doubt, I hope they get absolutely hammered by the authorities but to argue that they may simply vanish, never to return, is simply ridiculous. Their massive, horrible support will rally to the cause behind a new incarnation of the darkside whether we like it or not.
merseycelt loves Neil Lennon and the Green Brigade but despises the anti irish/catholic bigotry inherent within the organisations who constitute the scottish establishment says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:22
philvis
You’ve sussed me.
‘In case you dont know, scouse is liverpool’s irish stew!’
Is it not from the Baltic or somewhere round that way?
ernie lynch @ 14:09,
“Do you remember the wrestling that used to be on World of Sport?……Always very popular , packed halls (mostly swimming baths in northern industrial towns as I remember)”
And Airdrie Town Hall (Which was incidently next to the swimming Baths)
BTW: Is it now called Airdrie United Town Hall?
…“without them and Celtic would have the league wrapped up by Christmas every season, who would actually want to pay £600 per season for that?”
I’d gladly pay £1000 per season for that, especially the without them part.
SFA type tactics
Boot Hertz out for their misdemeanours. fair play. a wee team gets in,
Come HUNtime, they say, losing Hertz and HUN is too much for scottish football to survive.
Let’s save HUN
ernie lynch says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:28
merseycelt loves Neil Lennon and the Green Brigade but despises the anti irish/catholic bigotry inherent within the organisations who constitute the scottish establishment says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:22
philvis
You’ve sussed me.
‘In case you dont know, scouse is liverpool’s irish stew!’
Is it not from the Baltic or somewhere round that way?
———
Who needs wikipedia when ernie is around?
HH
Am I correct in thinking that if (Ghod willing) rangerz fc suffers an insolvency event, then the contracts of their playing staff will be passed onto the SPL? If this is the case, would the SPL be obliged to honor these contracts by means of wages? And finally, does the SPL have the available funds to meet such circumstances?
Hail Hail
Finn
If Hertz and Rangerz don’t get properly dealt with Celtic and Hibernian should canvas the other teams in the SPL and First Division as to who would want to join a new top league where rules are adhered to.
Bring in decent referee’s, standing areas, cheaper tickets & a fairer system.
LB
The old “aint gonnae happen” and “we cannae live withoot them” bhoys are out in numbers today.
Have they inside info on what the result was today?
I can’t wait to live withoot them!!!
Hail hail!!!
merseycelt loves Neil Lennon and the Green Brigade but despises the anti irish/catholic bigotry inherent within the organisations who constitute the scottish establishment says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:31
I saw it on the telly.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tp1cv
iPaddy McCourt says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:27
Can you be so certain?
We know from Mr Craig Whyte himself, that the team (and company) as it stands costs £7-10M more to run per year than it makes. And that’s based on all the increased income that comes from being champions ie higher attendances etc. And it’s not the most scintillating team out there. Do you believe that a team that is £7-10M per season cheaper will generate the same income levels as they get at the moment. Do you think that team would be guaranteed 2nd place and a route to European income? Do you think they would ever achieve lasting profitability?
So what NewCo needs is somebody to make a significant investment for the infrastructure etc and then be prepared to lose money year on year. Are you certain such a person exists? I’m not.
To draw some parallels with Dermot Desmond, who has put money in that seems he’s unlikely to see again (although he is a long-term strategist, so he might), do you think he’d have done so if the prospect of Celtic entering a higher profile and quality league seemed as far off as it does now? I don’t.
THM
I noticed that, the fear must be setting in :>)))))
ernie lynch says:
18 January, 2012 at 14:36
Is that not a recent picture of fat sally after being fed by nasty fellow hun gordon ramsay?
HH
DBBIA @ 14:19 – “If the new-look SPL brought back Kendo Nagasaki, The Legendary Masked Wrestler and Mystic, then all this interminable RTC shenanigans would be worthwhile.”
Would have thought you were more a Bobby Barnes man….?!
T4
Fear of there being No Rangers, must be up there with the fear of wakening up and finding you got into heaven
Surely?
The huns?
Dig a hole and bury them.
BroonSauce
Imagine there’s no huns, it’s easy if you try …
BroonSauce@14:14
Hear Hear and Hail! Hail!
iPaddy
I am sure you are correct there will be some incarnation of der Hun after the dust settles, however I still don’t think we should swallow the Ludge Line that Scottish Football cannot live without them – this will be peddled constantly by the desperados in the establishment to help mitigate any punishment – we must argue the point at all times – Scottish Football would outlive Rangers and could certainly survive the few years that any Newco would spend climbing through the leagues.
Let me tell you where the “smoking gun” is here, alright? Let me highlight it for you.
The press, and SFA, are saying Whyte “discovered” this bill during due dillegence.
That is a load of cobblers. Let’s put it in English. He “uncovered” it during it due dillegence. God knows how long the previous board had been sitting on it. God knows how long they’d be in possesion of the final demand.
Did they disclose it to the SFA? No, they didn’t. Regan’s statement makes that manifestly clear. Rangers should not have been granted a license last season, it is plain, it is obvious, it is a pure and simple fact. Both Whyte and Regan have admitted that the bill was not disclosed to people when it arrived at Ibrox, and that asks questions as to how long it was in Rangers’ possession.
The first we heard of it was when Rangers admitted it existed, but said that Whyte was liable for it if he bought the club. But the day when we became aware of it, which according to Regan is all that matters – shame on him for such spinelessness – is not the day on which it became payable.
That’s what we need answers to.
James.
The “wee” tax bill appears in the huns 6months accounts for 31st December 2010!
The notion that it was discovered by whyte during due diligence is a red herring.
There was an evening Times article on 6th Sept 2011 where a spokesman for Murray stated Whyte knew about it all along and gave assurances he was able to pay.It also mentions the fact it was in the £1st December accounts!!!
THE crucial element here is that the £2.8m bill was in rfc’s possession prior to 31st December 2010….it wasn’t paid (and still isn’t!) it IS (despite S.Regan’s comments to the contrary) AN OVERDUE BILL and,at the time the euro licence was applied for and granted,IT WAS NOT CONTESTED.
Check out the UEFA Licencing rules….Section 10 re Finance….it spells it out very clearly.
rfc and the sfa have a HUGE issue on their hands IF this matter is subject to close scrutiny.
The question is,how do we achieve transparency and accountability from the sfa when they stand to potentially lose as well as rfc?
Some of us are trying to generate an across celtic fans initiative to get to the truth on this.
Suggestion Joe McHugh may be best placed to co-ordinate.Or Brian McNally? Or The Celtic Trust?
Do you (or others on here) have contact with him to sound him out?
Sorry,I don’t do twitter or facebook so can’t contact him that way.
The truth will out!
WeeMinger
I believe they will find their level with or without wealthy backing. Their fanbase is massive and exceeds the fanbase of every other club in Scotland put together apart fom us. They may not be able to afford top players and they may not make any sort of impression on European football for many years to come (here’s hoping), but, like the baddy in a horror film that refuses to die for good, they will be back. Much weaker than they were, perhaps, but they will be our main challengers and the only realistic basis for an interesting league campaign each year.
there the hats scarfs an badges
programme
offishell
programme
erri macaroon bar
i spearmint chewin gum
erri colours
Does it really matter when Whyte and co claim to have “discovered” the wee tax bill? Surely the important date is when it was received.
If they happened to lose it, forget about it or put it in an overstuffed drawer with all their other unpaid bills, that’s up to them. They can’t claim it didn’t exost just because it happened to be convenient for them to do so.
I was in Bargain Books in the Piazza centre in paisley there.
Couple of wee books on prominent display –
Rangers Greats – £1.99
Rangers Miscellany – £1.99
For a fleeting moment I thought, buy them, they might be worth much more than that in the future as collectables.
Like Beatles or Elvis memorabilia.
or the Titanic or the R101.
BontyBhoy:
Not for the first time, pure nonsense my man, and I’ll tell you why.
First is your implication that a lot of what is written on this blog stems from hate is insulting to the posters and seeks to split some of the views on it into black & white terms. You use the word hate, furthermore, as if it is a negative quality, and I actually do not believe that it is.
I hate poverty. I hate injustice. I hate unfairness. I hate cheats and liars. I like to think of this as a reflection of my own beliefs, where I champion equality, justice, fairness, fair play and truth.
I am moved, not for the first time, to quote that great line from Michael Collins, where Liam Neeson is trying to justify hate to Aiden Quinn, and he says “I do hate them … I hate them for making hate neccessary.”
If Rangers was not an institution, itself steeped in hate, determined, at all costs, even the good of every other club in the game, to cheat, to lie, to commit acts of fraud and gross criminality, there would be no need for any of this. If they were not an institution bent on dividing Scottish football, on a rampant hatred of the Irish and the Catholic Church, if they did not do everything in their power to encourage this and foster it, then the hate would not be required.
We who hate Rangers hate them not because they exist but because of what they exist AS … the manner in which they exist. And I am allowed to hate a thing because of the manner in which it exists. I hate large sections of the Labour Party for betraying the principles of something I hold dear. I hate the modern Liberal Democrat party, as an example of spineless collusion and shameless political opportunism. I actively detest the Scottish media for what it has become, but if the Labour Party were to rediscover its radicalism, the Lib Dems to actually discover something it won’t sell out in a second for power and the Scottish Media was, tomorrow, to discover its own sense of purpose and pursue the truth with full vigor I would no longer hate what those things are any longer.
Rangers could have nulified the hate at the heart of the club, years ago. It would have cost them, but society would have been better for it. They could have accepted their wider responsibilities to the game and played within the rules, but they refused to do so. Now, you suggest we must find a way to limit the damage done to them, and perversely use the “good of the game” argument as to why. That does not wash, not for one second.
The good of the game is not served by allowing cheats to absolve themselves of the consequences because of what punishing them might mean for us. What price the game itself then? What would it do for us to win titles which, themselves, are tainted by the disgrace of us still playing in a league which allowed such malfeasance? Who would take the Scottish game seriously again?
Your argument that football clubs are institutions and thereby don’t fall the way companies do ignores the history books which are filled with the ghosts of dead football clubs. Did Belfast Celtic mean less to it’s fans than Glasgow Celtic? Did Gretna fans not feel the loss of their club as Dundee fans would feel the loss of theirs? Would it be less a tragedy for Scottish football if Hearts vanished forever than it would be if it was Rangers?
I never cease to be amazed by the people who look at Rangers as something larger than they are, as if they are a pillar of the community the nation could not do without. They are a football club, they are a business, and like any other football club and business they are hostages to fortune.
They can go out of business. If Whyte is what many of us believe he is, a charlatan who cares not one whit for that club, if he takes his own £18 million worth of assets and then hands the rest of the club to the administrators then the fact is Rangers WOULD die unless someone signed a very large cheque. Does that person exist? Perhaps he does. Perhaps a fans consortium would come together and save them, but that would still leave a club on its knees, needing multiple millions to be spent on it before they could even begin to recover from the damage done.
If Rangers fans didn’t fancy, or couldn’t afford, to prop up the club, or to follow it in the aftermath, it would be a matter of time before they, again, were in dire financial trouble. That club has had 30 years of living beyond its means … they either change that, which would be intolerable for Ra Peepil, or the only thing between whatever emerges from the edge of the abyss to falling down a new one would be days on the calendar … in other words, a matter of time.
Furthermore, if they did not get their act together in a timely fashion then the calender comes into play again, and if enough time elapses the SPL and SFA, bound by its duty to ALL the clubs in the land, would HAVE to replace them in the league and carry on without them for next season at least … and I do not know how they would, or could, chart a path back to the football world if that happened.
Let me be blunt, in case, by some chance, my point was lost in one of my many, many written musings on this matter.
Celtic and Scottish Football has a choice to make if Rangers NewCo and try to escape the horrendous scale of what they have wrought. You, and others, are arguing that for the sake of competition, that to maintain a TV contract, that we should seek to limit the full extent of the punishment … and that is unacceptable. Rangers have very deliberately lied and cheated and commited numerous acts of fraud. The world of football is replete with examples of national associations inflicting draconian punishment on clubs which do these things.
We laugh at the Italians for the history of corruption in their game, yet they long ago realised referees are only human and are subject to human weaknesses and failings, as well as bias, and the numerous scandals have not proven that as much as they have proven Italy’s determination to do something about it by investigating fully every allegation that is made. Scottish football is content not to know, and so people like Dallas can achieve lofty positions whilst being spitefully motivated to weigh decisions without number against one club. The Italian’s take seriously the idea of corruption in the game and that so much of it has been found tells me how determined they are to find it, and clubs responsible, no matter their size or power, are lashed almost to the point of death by those who hold the whips.
Other countries are just as serious about stamping it out. Germany has done it. Spain has done it. Switzerland has done it today, with the news about Xamax being denied a license.
Stewart Regan must be tired indeed, because since he came to Scottish football the full scale of the scandal which has been our last 20 years is emerging, piece by piece. I can understand – in part – his frustration and exasperation that every day brings a fresh nightmare, but he is the man in the job and if he does not get it right, if he does not do it, then the next 20 years will see the slow death of our game to the point where we ARE the League of Ireland or worse.
If it’s all to much he should get the Hell out and make way for someone with guts, someone who will see this through.
People like you, BontyBhoy, pushing the media line that Rangers NewCo as an SPL entity is inevitable are playing Russian roulette with the long term good of the game, and the long term good of Celtic, and what angers me at times is that you are doing it because of a selfish wish to justify the price of your season ticket.
If I thought it was in our best interests, as a club, to have Rangers re-admitted, with a heavy heart even I might be in favour of some kind of deal which allowed something short of the consequences which are due … and this one’s for you Seven Fishes … but “choosing a half measure when we should have gone all the way” is the first step on the road to our OWN end.
It is not in our best interests to support such a corrupt deal which will kill the Scottish game. It is not in our best interests to have a decades long policy of financial responsibility utterly erased by allowing financial irresponsibility and deceit to triumph over the proper way to do business. It destroys the whole of our strategic approach at a stroke.
It it not in the best interests of Scottish football to allow RangersNewCo a free pass at the expense of integrity, sportsmanship and fair play.
If they are allowed to re-enter it will not be a victory for good commercial sense, but commercial suicide. It will not help Celtic but damage us for decades to come and stain our reputation forevermore. It will not help Scottish football prosper again but will hammer the final nail into it’s coffin.
It will not be a victory for football but as Winston Churchill, after Munich, said “today we have suffered a total and unmitigated defeat.” It will be a surrender to bullies who use terms like for the “benefit of the game” to blackmail all those involved to cow-towing to the “benefit of Rangers.”
Be under no illusions. To allow this is to legitimise cheating, financial doping and fraudulent practices which would have Scotland become the laughing stock of world football. It would a brand new rash of financial doping and cheating, it would give Rangers and its criminal owner a green light to start pressing for concessions in other areas and it would invigorate our enemies to try and over-turn every single gain we have made in the last two years.
You do not deal with a wild animal which wants to eat you by cutting off one of your hands and giving it that. You use your two hands to pick up the nearest weapon and you fight … otherwise you die.
Rangers did this to themselves. I have no sympathy for them, and no wish to see them get away with it. If that makes me a bad person, I’ll live with it, and, Paul said, and I echo it here, if that means part of my own club is lost then it’s a part I am willing to live without. That part is not worth having.
The Greater Good can only be served one way. By acting for every club in the land instead of just one. If you think giving that club a free pass benefits the rest you’ve never read about Munich. Appeasement does not work.
Scottish Football has to grasp the nettle here and do this right, and if they don’t we must walk away and leave this league to whatever death awaits it.
I was liked
“get yer Larsson on the flag…..hat scarfs and banners”
chipmunk crisps
The huns on the bus are not very sound, sold for a pound, division 3 bound. The huns on the bus…guilty they are found…aaaaaaall day long.