It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge Aberdeen fans’ banner on Saturday in response to their chairman, Stewart Milne’s suggestion that fans are damaging our game with talking about the consequences of clubs being found to be cheating.
I know some people learned the lessons of 2012 but others appear to have acquired amnesia. Back in 2012 only one SPL club was of the view that Rangers should not be allowed to phoenix and gain entry to top flight football. After a considerable campaign by fans, all others, apart from Rangers themselves, and Kilmarnock, decided it would be better if existing rules were allowed to stand on the matter.
Milne was off his head making his comments. The only way to possibly pull a stroke like this would be to keep quiet about it, even then I doubt it would be achievable. Making his feelings known was only going to engage Aberdeen supporters, who will have the ultimate view on what the club do.
The issue remains in the long grass until the Supreme Court have concluded their business, but what we said in October remains valid: if Celtic stand alone, the matter will not be looked at again, if other clubs are on-board, it will be examined appropriately. It is for fans of Aberdeen, United, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell and make their feelings known.
The Herald’s piece this morning on Newco being “handed a place in the Premiership next summer as a result of some hastily-arranged league reconstruction” was remarkable. It was absurd but also worthy of respect. “NOBODY at Rangers (sic.)” wants this, but as other clubs need for Newco’s promotion is so great, apparently this is not really implausible.
Promote them, not because they are in need, because other clubs need them.
The starting position on league reconstruction is notable. For years only Celtic and Rangers blocked the SPL from being expanded. The majority of top flight clubs live in fear of (and experienced) relegation. They want a less competitive middle to the league. When the SPFL was formed a temporary moratorium of league reconstruction was agreed. This moratorium is due to expire shortly, a window for change is about to open up.
Tracking underneath all of these debates are the financial fundamentals. Newco is not financially viable. They are not viable in the Championship and although Premiership football would give them a few millions more, it would not change the fundamentals.
The circa £17m it takes to run a club at Ibrox before you employ football staff leaves little money for football given their anticipated top-flight income. It would take years and many tens of millions of dead investment to change this, as well as Mike Ashley raising the white flag.
These facts have not been grasped yet as the consequences of the hoped for investment of tens of millions not appearing are not being considered. Dave King might invest £30m-£50m, so with a fair wind everything might be OK. On the other hand, I think even £50m is tight, and I don’t see anything like that money heading to Ibrox.
The consequences of what happened in 2012, even on these pages, have yet to be realised. The old business model is finished, it’s not coming back.
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the Foundation Christmas Appeal bucket collection on Saturday. You see people at their very best on these occasions. If you want to know how your money will be spent have a read here.
Very last shout from CQN Bookstore for Christmas delivery, if you’re after 16:00, it’ll be after the festives’ before you get your book or DVD.
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Eddie-I hope you and yours are well mate. Do you think we are making progress from a year ago? And given the shambolic European campaign,would you trust RD with another £20 mil gamble next season? We have won 2 from our last 8 games at CP. No sign of a stop to shipping goals every other week. Continually playing guys out of position,and baffling substitutions. He is hopelessly out his depth IMO I wouldn’t include player transfers,as I don’t believe this is in his remit. HH
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 21st December 2015 3:35 pm
Well, I happen to think the tv deal was unfair as it was but I can’t recall from that time what it was we supposedly gained by giving up some of the money. Other than helping to ensure we still had teams to play against.
Until such time as we have an alternative place to play we do need to take some steps to ensuring there’s still a league play in. That doesn’t include speeding RIFCs arrival in the Premiership, which is demonstrably better without them.
If the mindset prevails within Celtic that keeping sevco going was good for the Scottish game and renegotiating the TV deal on everybody´s behalf except our own was good for the scottish game then does it follow about title stripping ? title stripping a dead club or a new club ? and will Celtic stance change all change if BDO fails with it´s appeal ?
HH
Very last shout for anyone wishing to order from CQNBookstore.com for delivery before Christmas to UK addresses. You’ve got ten minutes then that’s it!
CultsBhoy can not relate to Celtic Board ambitions on or off the park on 21st December 2015 3:32 pm ‘Going out of business chasing unrealistic dreams’
There are two interpretations of that headline
1 a cautionary tale – look what happened to Rangers which is the default diversionary tactic after a poor performance or sustained fan dissatisfaction . I think that’s what Paul was trying to convey on behalf of Celtic Plc. This assumes the dream is football focussed.
2 . The unrealistic dream – could on the other hand be the achievement of über efficiency taken too far to the point where you have no product that can be sold and customers dessert you and you are left with no business?
Auldheid on 21st December 2015 3:45 pm
I stated the other day that I can see an objective argument why RIFC could bring more to the league than say Spartans. The facts as I’m aware though are that was never up for discussion.
There was no forum for other clubs to apply for the available slot. So RIFC got fast tracked by the deal and the clubs’ were aware of it and happy about it. Happy to be corrected if that’s wrong.
Gerryfaethebrig
True enough I was wavering for a while,starting to think I had been too harsh on the Norwegian P E teacher
But I have seen the light
However I would imagine we are stuck with him until the end of the season,hopefully at that stage he will be sent on his way to oblivion
Why Celtic are not protesting en masse, is something I don’t understand.
Where is the solidarity here?
Are we really going to allow these bigoted cretins carte the right to cheat?
Why can we not organise, and make a collective protest?
Have we all just given up.
Fecking wake up, and give yourselfs a shake.
Do we really want our sons and daughters to suffer the cheating, or are we going to fight back ffs.
We are allowing a mob of halfwits to run rings round us….Get a grip.
HH
That is to keep the league without RFC alive.
Auldheid
They had gone by then. NOT TRUE … it was renegotiated with team 12 in mind
On the 5 Way which saw TRFC given a place in the bottom tier what should Celtic have objected to and on what grounds? WHAT ABOUT THE RULES AND STATUTES ?
HH
Auldheid’s account of the Celtic board matches what I have heard.
The board are perfectly happy to carry on without ever having to play the huns again.
Oh and Title stripping ?
TIMALOY29 on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 3:58 PM
but they will kick out our weans out of Celtic Park at the first sniff of them and for more money ?
HH
Had a heart warming moment earlier talking to my Dad about Saturday’s match. According to him, Celtic need a Charlie Gallagher. Quoth he, “Charlie might have been soft, but what a football brain”. True, of course. although personally I think we need a Victor Wanyama.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 21st December 2015 3:47 pm
Title stripping is good for the Scottish game. It restores a modicum of faith that it’s not being run solely for the benefit of one club and that sporting integrity still exists on some level.
It may not bring anybody back, but it’ll sure as hell stop a lot leaving the game for good.
Ok lads I am feeling I am knocking my head against a brick wall here. It is like discussing the validity of the Old Testament.
I´ll be back on CHRISTmas EVE
HH
I wish it was a bit more straight forward.
I suggest a massive wild-west style punch against the huns on Glasgow Green….a bit like Blazing Saddles:)
I’m sure everybody would enjoy that.
Raise a right few quid for charity at the same time…..sponsored hun skelping etc.
Could be a winner:)
HH
16 Roads- it doesn’t help Armstrong by continually playing him on the left,Allan is stuck out there anytime he gets a look in. Both are better in the centre of the park. HH
There are lots of issues around just now. My thoughts on a couple of them.
1 Support Ronny or sack him .
I am not suggesting the board will or should sack Ronny . However we are days away from the financial half year end and the board will be reviewing that and deciding whether any change is needed, in any major area of plan or how the plan is being delivered.
Anyone who thinks this won’t happen is naive . It would have happened if we had been 15 points clear and in the CL last 16, although it would have been an easier discussion. It’s called responsible management.
I have no insight as to whether the board will do anything with Ronny, and in a situation where he has delivered some good stuff and some disappointments , you would need to be involved in the business at board level to make that call.
2 How much to spend in January.
This is a key decision as it impacts point 3 below. I have concerns with the track record of recent recruitment. We have had one ” home run ” in the last 7 transfer windows .
Thats way below our previous performance levels. We have to recognise that recruitment is extremely challenging, however we excelled at it previously using many of the same people. Spending heavily to potentially recruit more Boerrighter’s or Amido Balde’s would be damaging, equally we have some glaring needs for the squad and these have to be filled.
3 Find a way to re-energise fans.
Heavy spending will buy some short term relief, maybe firing the manager might as well. However it would be extremely irresponsible to do either as a measure to reduce the heat and noise.
Res 12 is incredibly trick for the board. Anyone who things the board aren’t disgusted by David Murray’s cheating is 100% wrong. If anything they are more outraged than we as fans are. They were cheated as fans and as professionals. They received pressure and criticism for not beating a cheat. They lost bonus’ across the board , from the office girls to the CEO because Murray cheated. That is painful on multiple levels for them. They couldn’t follow through on projects , some people lost their jobs . All because of a cheat , who has been given protection by the SFA.
Should Celtic speak out more aggressively than they have so far they risk the welfare of their staff. We have already seen how the lunatic fringe of the Rangers support react in these situations.
We also know the vast majority of the media are not sympathetic to Res 12. The only way to progress this is quietly and professionally. No matter how tempting to shout from the rooftops .
The board have to look at everything in the 3 points above and any fair minded person will realise these are extremely challenging issues. We can fire suggestions or criticisms from the sidelines, but they have to live with the consequences. They will rightly look long and hard before making decisions
Parkheadcumsalford on 21st December 2015 4:00 pm
How about a Charlie Gallacher and a Bertie Auld?
Not only would Bertie sort out the opposition, he would sort some of our own guys who need a boot up the jacksie as well!
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
To be honest, there are so many empty seats I am sure they can fit them in
Eddieinkirkmichael
What do you know about the game huh ?
You can’t even figure out the difference between a Wishy juniors and an amateur pitch……..
:-)
We’ve lost a game less than this time last year, have scored ten more goals, had two more clean sheets, and the goal difference is plus eight.
Grrrrrrrhhhhhhhh……………………Mr Angry’s csc
GLENDALYSTONSILS,
I actually said to my Dad, that we needed a Bertie Auld to sort things out.
I don’t think it’s possible to identify or single out a lunatic fringe amongst the Sevco support.
I don’t think we should have got rid of Morten Rasmussen. I can only imagine that we did because of his off the field antics
Barcabhoy
Ive no problem with most of your post….you are bang on.
However, we cannot live in fear.
To submit to threat is not the answer.
If certain people cannot accept the truth, that is their concern…..they must be responsible for their actions under the law.
We should never fear telling the truth.
Silence is no answer.
HH
Bouneaouprecipe
Did you get clearance to post about Celtic on CQN?
Auldeid
Acting is one thing but communicating displeasure is quite another.
I’m not questioning Barcabhoy’s or your own sources but sometimes it’s more telling what’s not being articulated than what is.
If DD is indeed irate then let him say so. We as the paying customer should have a right to know what the people running our club clearly believe. A solitary press release, in the wake of fan fury, after the most recenf tax decision was welcome but not nearly enough.
I see Paul suggesting Celtic are fighting the SFA using their procedures but we’re doing it on the quiet. What’s the need for all the claok and dagger stuff? If we are active then let the fans know?
This would show the fans they are serious, more than likely galvanise supporters of other clubs too. Afterall we need as many people voicing their anger as possible or underhanded change & moving on is coming whether we like it or not.
Cheers for replying & for all your efforts. I’m out and about just now so may reply to your other points later.
HH!
bournesouprecipe
Seen some right funny haircuts among them over the years though:))
Bada – Totally agree chief.
It’s incredible the management team can’t seem to recognise the obvious solution.
Those individuals didn’t suddenly become bad footballers overnight.
If Ronny doesn’t get his act together soon then he’s going to the wall – Only has himself to blame, unless he tells the support that it isn’t him signing the duds and others he hadn’t even heard of before.
Nobody is bigger than the club. That includes PL and Ronny.
HH.
There is a simple honesty about the banners that the Aberdeen supporters display. Not enigmatic, not abusive, simple honesty.
Paul67 highlighted their latest one, I wonder if he would’ve done likewise if it had been banners displayed at Parkhead highlighting our silence and silences, which to my mind, is much, much, more insidious, and malevolent, and creepy, and disturbing , and cowardly, than anything Milne ever said.
The Aberdeen supporters are telling it as they see it and Celtic Supporters are lauding them for it whilst sitting back in the shadows doing exactly what….
I really, really, do struggle- to understand – the thinking of my club and its third party broadcasts.
I really, really, do struggle – to fathom – where all the brave Celtic men and women have gone.
Let the people sing their stories and their songs….
but don’t ever dare tell the truth about corrupt Scottish Football.
Just like The Rangers, no better than the Rangers, we as a club deflect, set off social smoke bombs, lie in omission, and send letters to Santa wanting only the return of the slime bigot pound.
Let the people sing about people who did not sing but just did it.
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 4:14 PM
I don’t think it’s possible to identify or single out a lunatic fringe amongst the Sevco support.
Too right. The whole damned hairdo is pretty loopy.
I’m fed up with this constant deflection…back of the bus crap.
On the day that Blatter and Platini were banned for eight years, would it be too radical too suggest that the Scottish football authorities be investigated?
Maybe direct communication with EUFA should be the way forward.
This corrupt farce in Scotland cannot be allowed to go on.
HH
I asked earlier if more transparency was needed at our club. Based on the posts this afternoon, the answer is that we would absolutely like to see more of it. However, I don’t believe we will ever get it with the current club structure.
TIMALOY29 on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 4:07 PM
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo
yeah I know but they didn´t
Barcabhoy,
so why is Resolution 12 being left to a fan group ? is that quiet and professional ?
See you bhoys on xmas eve
HH
Auldheid:
I don’t remember Peter Lawwell uttering a single word about the approval of Dave King as Fit and Proper. I would love it if you could point me to any reliable source that would put me straight.
Let me get this right-
Celtic plc will not say a word about Rangers cheating and the Sevco same club myth in case any employees of Celtic FC/plc are physically attacked by raging zombies as a result. That is the line that some reliable people who are engaged with Celtic plc have stated on this blog and on other fora so we can be reasonably sure that this is the plc’s position on this issue.
Let’s side aside for the moment any discussion of whether this is an exaggerated threat or a convenient excuse for the plc board.
However fans of Celtic Fc – and other Scottish football clubs – are being implored on CQN (widely regarded as the Celtic plc board’s truth channel) to speak out about the cheating and the same club myth while the plc board keeps schtum.
What about if these fans get attacked by raging zombies as a result of such comments? Is that ok then, or does the threat of violence only apply to Celtic employees?
Or is the threat of violence simply a convenient red herring designed to provide an alibi for inaction on the part of Celtic plc?
We have been asked to pay money into a bent sport for years. We are now being told that if we want justice then the board, who are entrusted with safeguarding our club’s interests, can’t help for fear of violent reprisals. But if we’re such jolly good fans we can organise and do the club’s donkey work and accept the violent reprisals for ourselves.
Why would we ever put ourselves in a position of ever playing any form of rangers ever again? Surely we cannot countenance ever beating them for fear of violent reprisals against Celtic employees?
CultsBhoy
I just posted without reading back, – who is winning
Sevco – The Board – or the Ronny haters?