It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge Aberdeen fans’ banner on Saturday in response to their chairman, Stewart Milne’s suggestion that fans are damaging our game with talking about the consequences of clubs being found to be cheating.
I know some people learned the lessons of 2012 but others appear to have acquired amnesia. Back in 2012 only one SPL club was of the view that Rangers should not be allowed to phoenix and gain entry to top flight football. After a considerable campaign by fans, all others, apart from Rangers themselves, and Kilmarnock, decided it would be better if existing rules were allowed to stand on the matter.
Milne was off his head making his comments. The only way to possibly pull a stroke like this would be to keep quiet about it, even then I doubt it would be achievable. Making his feelings known was only going to engage Aberdeen supporters, who will have the ultimate view on what the club do.
The issue remains in the long grass until the Supreme Court have concluded their business, but what we said in October remains valid: if Celtic stand alone, the matter will not be looked at again, if other clubs are on-board, it will be examined appropriately. It is for fans of Aberdeen, United, Hibs, Hearts, Motherwell and make their feelings known.
The Herald’s piece this morning on Newco being “handed a place in the Premiership next summer as a result of some hastily-arranged league reconstruction” was remarkable. It was absurd but also worthy of respect. “NOBODY at Rangers (sic.)” wants this, but as other clubs need for Newco’s promotion is so great, apparently this is not really implausible.
Promote them, not because they are in need, because other clubs need them.
The starting position on league reconstruction is notable. For years only Celtic and Rangers blocked the SPL from being expanded. The majority of top flight clubs live in fear of (and experienced) relegation. They want a less competitive middle to the league. When the SPFL was formed a temporary moratorium of league reconstruction was agreed. This moratorium is due to expire shortly, a window for change is about to open up.
Tracking underneath all of these debates are the financial fundamentals. Newco is not financially viable. They are not viable in the Championship and although Premiership football would give them a few millions more, it would not change the fundamentals.
The circa £17m it takes to run a club at Ibrox before you employ football staff leaves little money for football given their anticipated top-flight income. It would take years and many tens of millions of dead investment to change this, as well as Mike Ashley raising the white flag.
These facts have not been grasped yet as the consequences of the hoped for investment of tens of millions not appearing are not being considered. Dave King might invest £30m-£50m, so with a fair wind everything might be OK. On the other hand, I think even £50m is tight, and I don’t see anything like that money heading to Ibrox.
The consequences of what happened in 2012, even on these pages, have yet to be realised. The old business model is finished, it’s not coming back.
Many thanks to everyone who contributed to the Foundation Christmas Appeal bucket collection on Saturday. You see people at their very best on these occasions. If you want to know how your money will be spent have a read here.
Very last shout from CQN Bookstore for Christmas delivery, if you’re after 16:00, it’ll be after the festives’ before you get your book or DVD.
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Bigbhoy
Useful insights there. Cheers.
We think we have problems for all the Man.city team cost they are currently down 2-0 to Arsenal.It shows no team has the devine right to winning . There is a mixture of talent, skill, hard work and luck to winning football matches and some times it goes for you and other times it goes against you.However, you must have faith and believe. H.H.
Sipsini
I think we have lived in an era when we have attracted passing trade, supporters who bought into Fergus vision and bought ST ‘ s accordingly.
30-35k is the norm for run of the mill home games. History shows us this.
Like u I hate any Celtic defeat, but live on in hope.
RD should not bear the brunt of our anger IMO .
That should very much be reserved for our board and CEO
Living to the name of their predecessors , they totally lack ambition and foresight for our club.
HH
The Exiled Tim 8:55
He plays with the 4231, which in effect is more like a 2 9 when at home
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CG doesn’t go up that often:-)
Joe Filippis Haircut on 21st December 2015 8:58 pm
We think we have problems for all the Man.city team cost they are currently down 2-0 to Arsenal.It shows no team has the devine right to winning . There is a mixture of talent, skill, hard work and luck to winning football matches and some times it goes for you and other times it goes against you.However, you must have faith and believe. H.H.
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And Arsenal are just copying Ronny’s tactics :O)
But seriously, almost man to man, with even right footer on the left and left footer on the right. Unfortunately these players are 20 times the quality with have and appear to work harder and more importantly appear to enjoy playing their football.
With one minute to go Man city get a free kick in a dangerous area 1-0 down.
Silva instead of playing ball into box gives a short pass to Toure and Silva then makes a square ,dangerous pass across field which is intercepted leading to an Arsenal goal on break.
This is a symptom of modern coaching that puts possession over everything.
Celtic often have free kicks in dangerous areas but most times we play short balls sideways and backwards and end up in a less threatening position.
Time people dusted off the book that Watford used as a blueprint that showed that putting the ball early in danger zone resulted in more goals.
Was written by some English guy who was into stats.
THEHUDDLE. Do they enjoy playing more due to the huge sums they are earning ? I dont think tonight Man.City players look as though they are enjoying themselves. H.H.
Glass2/3
Aye, at the end on sat it was 0 11
HH
Aiden Bhoy
Ronny annoys me, not playing Armstrong where he should and playing 4 defenders and two sitting midfielders bugs me, Nir Biton is a smashing player but I would rather have Scott Allan who will try and thread the needle instead of passing the sewing needle to somebody next to him, BUT he is a successful Celtic manager and our last 3 have left of their own accord……
Weefrathetim
Not been at Celtic park for years, wee yin is 7 as soon as she gets the “bug” I will be there in a heartbeat, loved reading HT’s stories about his girl, my wee yin says she hates football but she calls her mums team Sevco and on a Saturday or whenever we are playing she says “dad did we win” slowly but surely when I get the green light she will be at CQN corner and might even buy the beers in the Kerrydale as she has more money than me
Aiden Bhoy on 21st December 2015 8:47 pm
We were shipping lots of goals in Europe with Virgil and Denayer last season.
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Not really.
Take out the Inter away game when Virgil was sent off early when it was still 0-0 and we only conceded 8 in the six games they played together.
Similar story this season. Our defensive record was decent when Simunovic and Boyata both played.
BIGBHOY on 21ST DECEMBER 2015 7:35 PM
What I know is that the Football Division is rum by the First Team Manager, Ronny. John Park runs the scouting and brings players in positions that the manager had identified. The Manager then decides who is he wants. 1st, 2nd and 3rd Choice. He has a budget and he decides how he spends it e.g one £5m player or 5 £1million player
Only when the football dept has done their work, then the commercial piece is done by the club and ultimately the CEO. They negotiate the contact and Transfer Fee for players in and out.
Peter Lawwell is not qualified to handle the Football part, that is the Manager who has the final say. Peter Lawwell does the financial negotiations which he is qualified to do.
John Parks team scout the players and then the Football coaching staff decide who to sign within their budget, its only the Financial gets left with the Commercial people.
Budgets are made each year and are subject of change at the control of the manager who can ask for money brought forward from the next window for example. European income, Champs league and Europa League qualification have an effect on Budget. The more coming in means the more for the Manager for signings and contracts.
Now selling Players is also involving commercials as well as football side and indeed we may have to bring in additional finance to cover decreasing income from whatever source
If we don’t qualify for Champs League, don’t sell enough tickets or Hospitality. If the shops sell less thats when our Turnover drops and we need to sell.
People who say the Board buy the players don’t understand the way the club is run.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/aberdeen-fans-grasping-financial-fundamentals/comment-page-6/#comments
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The only criticism I would make of that is that EVERYONE should know how the club is run.
A page for each Dept on The Celtic Web site kept up to date with names roles and responsibilities would work wonders for killing some of the mad ideas that take on life as soon as they are repeated and get loose in cyberspace.
Ideas are incredibly powerful creative devices so really should be treated with care. If mad ones are nipped in the bud that can stop so much misinformed debate but to do that we need info like you set out but in a form that is easy to find, easy to understand and credible because it reflects how things work.
It could also be interactive. For example TET thinks there might be Spanish players who can do a turn. Now his judgment might be pish (although he knew how to pick his good lady but that’s another story) but he is in situe sees the players he thinks can do a job on a regular basis so why not have the ability to feed it to the relevant source at Celtic?
A page called The Hospital Wing would be useful, especially if Boerigter is gone as it will be one more bed available but how helpful would it be to have a wee bio of an injured player with details of injury and prognosis. Imagine how helpful it would have been for Charlie Mulgrew to have a video put up for him to tell us how he felt about having to come off at Ajax for example or for the likes of Scott Brown to keep in touch with support as he recovers?
So thanks for the clarification on the recruitment process. It’s a pity it cannot become a sticky that can be easily found next the subject comes up and it will but at least a marker has been laid down in the collective CQN memory.
Ideas are incredibly powerful creative devices so really should be treated with care. If mad ones are nipped in the bud that can stop so much misinformed debate, but to do that we need info like you set out but in a form that is easy to find, easy to understand and credible because it reflects how things work.
It could also be interactive. For example TET thinks there might be Spanish players who can do a turn. Now his judgment might be pish (although he knew how to pick his good lady – but that’s another story) but he is in situe sees the players he thinks can do a job on a regular basis so why not have the ability to feed it to the relevant source at Celtic? There must be a fair coverage globally for this to tested.
A page called The Hospital Wing would be useful, especially if Boerrigter is gone as it will be one more bed available but how helpful would it be to have a wee bio of an injured player with details of injury and prognosis?
Imagine how helpful it would have been for Charlie Mulgrew to have a video put up for him to tell us how he felt about having to come off at Ajax for example or for the likes of Scott Brown to keep in touch with support as he recovers?
So thanks for the clarification on the recruitment process. It’s a pity it cannot become a sticky that can be easily found next time the subject comes up (and it will) but at least a marker has been laid down in the collective CQN memory.
FAN-A TIC
Tell that to Pep
HH
The problem for Ronny is what he says he wants us to do, and what is happening on the pitch are totally different.
He talks of a high pressing high tempo game where, in the modern lingo, we move quickly through the phases of play from back to front.
In reality we play at snails pace with side and back passing the norm (especially at home).
The football at CP is dire, as bad as Strachan and Lennon teams at their worst.
We are a worse team now than we were 18 months ago.
2 wins in 8 home games is not a blip, it’s a serious problem that needs to be addressed.
Our signing policy, irrespective of who signs the players, is flawed. We don’t sign with a view to Building a team, we sign with the view to sell any player that’s a moderate success.
We talk about youth but in six years Forrest is the only player to come through the youth set up and become a first team regular for any length of time (hopefully Tierney will be number two).
Ronny said judge him on Europe this season. He better hope that we don’t.
Auldheid
Is that a new technique to get your point across ?
Glasstwothirdsfull
I’m honestly surprise at that thought it was more. Think Boysta has improved lately although did have a tough time on Saturday.
Burghbhoy…
There will be many reasons the support has fallen…lack of finance, disillusioned wth the boards cheap options.
I reckon we both know there will be an upturn next season, sadly, that is the way it is.
Their club died but their fan base hasn’t.
I just want us in a position to pump them at every turn. Kip time HH
The Exiled Tim
Lets see how Pep does in champions league this year?
He took a brilliant Champions league winning team to a pretty ineffective one at Bayern.
He is successful in Germany but should be with his resources.
Teams have sussed that compacting the space between defense and midfield in final third nullify’s his limited system no matter how potent his personnel are.
Gerry
What with the “St Martin” patter?
MON has forgotten more about the game than Rinnie will ever know.
Perhaps you have forgotten what a state we were in before he arrived, having meekly surrendered 4-0 at the bigotdome when it could have been 8!
Yet in the first game against the Huns we managed to win 6-2!
Ronnie could have that team and would never get that type of performance out of them!
So desist with the snide remarks about a true Celtic great!
HH
Croppybhoy
Wind your neck in
Plenty refer to MON as St Martin, the 6-2 game was amazing and MARTIN has his place in our history……. Still left us with plenty of deadwood and giving out retirement plans to Paul Lambert and every other signing he made with impunity, cost us two leagues in my opinion apologies for having an opinion
Auldheid. That was a first class explanation of how Celtic is run the unfortunate thing is that you a supporter has to come on line and explain it.Sometimes it feels as though club is a Masonic Lodge and doesnt want to tell anyone anything and in that respect I believe they are failing the support. Why they are so poor at keeping in touch with the support I have no idea. H.H.
Joe
Agree communication with fans has to be much better.
Joe Filippis Haircut
“it feels as though club is a Masonic Lodge”.
Just the one question joe, how do you know that ? :-)
Sipsini
HH and good night bud
Gerry
You are entitled to your opinion but since you think that we play two holding midfielders in any game then perhaps people should ignore it!
BIG-CUP-WINNERS, That would be telling. H.H. :- )
Auldheid
Loved that post – transparency is absolutely paramount. One of the benefits of my trawling through club constitutions and articles of associations is that I have learned a lot about how other clubs are creating an environment where everyone knows what each moving part in the club is doing and WHY.
Long way to go on my research but it’s throwing up some interesting ideas.
just managed to catch the highlights from Saturday and Boyata looks like Tebily
At the heart of a lot of the problems. I would move Lustig into the centre and put Efe
at right back
I was in the mood for some nostalgia earlier so I spent a few minutes watching the 5-1 Lubo game on you tube. What a performance by the team that day.
You never know Ronny may discover another Lubo for us during the January window.
The standard of football on offer currently is light years away from what was on show on that day in1998.
Croppybhoy
Would you play Biton in the SPL ?
Since Broony has been out Stef Jo has been sitting with Nir, when Broony has been fit he has been sitting, maybe I know heehaw about sitting midfielders which probably matches what I know about football……
Do you think Martin should have won the league in 2003 or do you think he was chasing the 2nd Euro cup ?
Croppybhoy
Just read back….. Even my missus says I am best ignored
GFTB: Already looking forward to that beer in the Kerrydale:-). Stay positive.
Aiden Bhoy on 21st December 2015 9:16 pm
Glasstwothirdsfull
I’m honestly surprise at that thought it was more. Think Boysta has improved lately although did have a tough time on Saturday
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I did some research on that a few weeks ago so I had the stats at hand.
We did concede quite a lot in Europe last season, but the bulk of them came in the games where Ambrose played instead of Denayer.
I see potential in Boyata, but he needs to improve his decision making.
Three of our back four are inexperienced and it will take a while to gel. Hopefully not too long!
Man City haven’t scored an away league goal in almost 5 games yet could still win the league. Or it looks like Arsenal will finally have a real chance of winning the title.
the_huddle
:)))))
And then they score :O)
The Huddle,
Oh yes they have.
Top corner job
GFTB
Gerry, been lurking a bit but wanted to say thanks for your thoughts and prayers for my dad a couple of weeks back. I posted at the time but was quite late on – hope you and your family have a great Christmas.
All the best.