Celtic surrendered another two points to fall further behind in the championship race, drawing 0-0 at home against Hibernian. It was a unorganised looking performance from the home team who gave Graham Stack little to do in the Hibernian goal.
Gary Hooper squandered Celtic’s only gilt-edged chance of the game when, after playing a one-two with Anthony Stokes, he struck the outside of the post with Ki available for the square pass. Anthony Stokes had earlier tested Stack, who failed to hold the ball but did enough to clear.
When the same teams met on Wednesday James Forrest transformed the game when he drifted inside but he spent most of today’s game adrift on the right wing. On two occasions he cut inside with purpose, once testing Stack with a blistering shot from 22 yards and later when a 25 yard pile-drive struck the crossbar, but Hibs were content to limit Celtic to such speculative efforts.
Neil Lennon was justified in his criticism of his front pairing of Stokes and Hooper today but Celtic were equally clueless in midfield. There appeared to be no cohesion and there was certainly not a productive match plan.
Motherwell’s away win in Inverness gives the Lanarkshire side a three point lead, having played a game more, going into next week’s crucial game against Celtic at Fir Park. Manager-less St Johnstone dropped three points at home this afternoon, leaving them four points behind Celtic in the fight for the last Europa League place.
This is where we are people, scrapping between Motherwell and St Johnstone. Get used to it.
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P8ddy @ 01:49
I don’t normally offer plaudits but what an excellent post
Auldheid:
I am no p&ddy and I cannot bold, but here goes …
“The quality of what the support watches depends on what the support pay to watch.”
Aaaah I understand you now. So if my old man’s season ticket doubled in price, we’d get a better team on the park?
“The vast amount of that load is borne by match day goers. There are many who do not go to watch Celtic who would pay something to support the club as matchgoers do.”
Those people do pay. They buy shirts. They buy DVD’s. They spend their money paying for subscriptions to CelticTV and other things. All of them get something in return for their money. What are you offering except that which we already get here and through the other supporters organisations?
“Providing them with the means of supporting spreads the load, the added income could either be used to get better players or reduce match day prices.”
Ha! I knew it! So the reason they don’t spend money is Celtic haven’t given them enough to spend it on! So, this is that, is it? A way of getting them to make a financial contribution WITHOUT attending games, WITHOUT buying shirts … and I ask again, other than the voice I can use here, or the voice my old man can get through his supporters bus delegates, or Jack Marshall gets with his shares … I get what?
Oh wait .. you answered that! Lower season ticket prices for other fans! Ho-ho-ho … so those of us who don’t go to games should subsidise those who do? It’s certainly … original. I do like the bit about getting better players haha. That one came right out of the Peter Lawwell “Jam Tomorrow” handbook, didn’t it?
“I have family and friends who are excluded by a number of factors from providing financial support in any form because the means to do so does not exist.”
So they live prohibitive distances from the Celtic Superstore? They have no online access to buy merchandise? And they don’t know anyone who could take their cheque down to the store and get stuff in for them?
“I would hope of course that everyone would have family and friends who would wish to belong or else it really would be elitist.”
And again, I say to you … why does ANYONE need to be PART OF THIS in order to “belong”?
I AM getting this, aren’t I? There’s no shares on offer? No real voice in the running of the club? Just money, leaving my bank, going to Celtic, to pay player salaries and executive bonuses …
Tell me I get at least a Celtic mug … oh wait … I WOULD BE THE MUG ….
JF
not even TRYING to answer my question to you!
Or do I not have any GRAVITAS?
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
Christ, now you say that it all makes sense … I am kicking myself for missing that big brick wall in front of the Hibs keeper today with “Built by Craig Whyte, Maintained by the SFA” written on it ….
I know these people do not wish us well, but that’s been a fairly constant state of affairs at least as long as I’ve been alive.
We’ve frequently risen above it. To blame us being third on a conspiracy is just barmy.
Mr Stimpson says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:05
One man’s ambition is another man’s insanity. They are like a gambler at a puggy, they are down and nearly broke but think the only way out is to keep gambling.
Malmo and Maribor were two lemons they did not expect.
Celtforlife. Forget huns. Refs sfa
Whats next. Conspiracy that all refs are Motherwell fans or ST johnstone fans
Look at the league table and tell ne why we are just a above ST johnstone and hertz??
The reason is we have been needing a center half for 5 years and all we get is cheap options, same for goalscorers
We reap what we sow
if neil lennon had to leave celtic for any other reason than a football one it would be a discrace but to leave because he was just not up to the job is ok. they will not have won in thier atempt to get neil lennon out of scotland. it would be for football reasons. we all know what n. lennon has been through but the fact is he is failing as our manager and i for one think the job is too big for him to turn it around. if we can attract the likes of bellamy and robbie keane to come to our club for a short period of time i think we could get martin o’neil to come until the end of the season. i think we could still win the league with him in charge until may. it would be a good move for him if he wanted a job down south, especialy if he won the the league. he is out of work and it would put him in the shop window…
oh yes !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elgrXip6Wm0&feature=related
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:16
actually your wrong in stating that I don’t understand.
I repeatedly point out that rangers are on the verge of bankruptcy. I also point out that before they bought him they had gone 2 or 3 years without signing a player (that might not be exaclty correct but 2 yeats +/- 6 months should be bang on).
It is also true that without the Jelovic they would not have won the league cup or league last year.
Not once did I state that they bought the league. You have written that, not me.
My point is very simple and it is that Rangers showed the ambition to buy the player and the ambition paid off as without him they would not have won last year’s title. We bought cheaper players and have achieved less than we hoped.
As for your financial doping point. Rangers would not have won the league without Jelavic but, had they reached the CL this year, it would still have been an investment which paid off.
The rumours of the hun demise have been a bit premature, but if they get to January and they are still trading, then Jelavic will be an assett which will be sold at a profit. Therefore, the decision to buy him would still have been valid even if they are on the verge of going out of business.
great post p*ddy
I think any clinical analysis of where we are has to separate the team from the club.
Team – Looks at tactics, management, coaching, players, motivation, injuries
Club – Looks at corporate governance, market strategy, operating context
Team
You hit the nail on the head Paddy. We need top be dispassionate.
If Neil Lennon jumps or is pushed, the reaction from the huns will be sickening.
True.
If Neil Lennon stays and does not win the league, the reaction from the huns will be sickening.
Celtic is not about keeping Neil Lennon as manager.
We do not have evidence after 18 months to convince us that he is a manager who will win us the league. If anything, to the contrary. P8ddy, I don’t know if you saw today’s game, but you made an observation about complacency and expectation and arrogance, which echoed those made by many posters at half-time today.
Does our team play with conviction?
Does our team have a recognised formation?
Can our team adapt to different tactical challenges?
Does our team have a leader on the field?
Does our team respond quickly and decisively in the face of unexpected or adverse consequences?
Compare and contrast the number of YES responses to those you would have supplied to a MON, or Strachan, or David Hay team.
Club
Do you know what the club strategy is?
Do you understand why the club has publicly requested the cessation of IRA songs, when this is an event that rarely happens?
Do you understand why the club has not publicly requested the cessation of anto-Catholic songs, when this is an event that frequently happens, including at our ground?
Do you know what % of votes it takes to enforce a change in club rules?
Do you know the basis on which director remuneration and bonuses are paid?
if you answered YES to any question, please post the answer here, with a link.
We have been reduced to consumers and customers. We may as well be buying JLS calendars, except with JLS you are guaranteed a shite product. Our expectations are so much higher, but our highly paid custodians do not appreciate that.
jockcfc:
The real victory for Rangers would be to see this man destroyed by the guilt of knowing he stayed too long, stayed past the point where he could do us any good, stayed past the point of sympathy or understanding and past the point where his own dignity and self-respect were chipped away every single day by the steady drip-drip-drip of failure.
Neil Lennon is a man’s man. A great, great hero in the modern age of “me, me, me”. A man who risked his life – his LIFE, when some players in our team would not risk grazed knees – for Celtic Football Club. He is without equal in my eyes in the last forty years, with only Tommy Burns having given us as much, in his own way, sacrificing a promising managerial career of his own just to be here. Neil Lennon is a Celtic legend, no matter what comes to pass. That is assured.
Rangers win nothing if, for football reasons Lennon departs … especially if he departs on his own terms with his head held high. To hold him to an impossible standard, to keep faith “come what may”, even in total failure, would be to destroy something in Neil Lennon which bullets did not, which bombs could not and which the sectarian and cowardly scum who lurk in the shadows will not.
Lennon feels every defeat like we do, and he will leave, if he does, only with the greatest reluctance … but I also know with a certain relief. It would be a monumental disgrace if we broke that man so as not to let them seem to have won a blood sacrifice.
Do you think they HATE his place in our managerial chair? Right now they are revelling in his pain.
That is what makes this especially hard to take.
James Forrest is Lennon says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:18
I take it you’ll not be joining then?
Auldheid
Joining what?
Auld Neil Lennon heid:
To get the free Celtic mousemat?
No, I’ll wait for the Breaking Bad Fan Membership Scheme to start and sign up for that.
I’ll get a years subscription to AMC, so the Walking Dead will be on too. Zombies, marching blindly into nowhere, leeching off the living …
I’ll try not to let the obvious paralells between Rangers and our board of directors distract me too much.
JF
Never said there WAS a conspiracy just highlighting that as Celtic fans the very things I was highlighting are in the thoughts of many Celtic fans, who I would imagine there are many on the PLC board. So it would not be mad to suggest that they think along the same lines; deluded as we all may be.
By NOT investing DUE to these DELUSIONS we have the standard of player currently on show of which, btw, Commons, Izzy and Brown apart, ripped Rangers apart last season.
I have not lost Faith
We WILL come good
We will win this league.
Rangers will be a Newco… rightly so and not a minute too soon.
One more thing… why would ANY player worht his salt want to come and play for a team that is routinely kicked and assaulted with impunity but if they so much as fart at the opposition and get booked?
Or am I deluded there too?
Evidence?
Kayal gets Kicked in the face on Wednesday and gets booked for having the temerity to get upset at that!
Do you not think things like that effect how players react to a game???
Oh, whats the point!
Funnily enough thats probably what goes through our players minds more often than not these days.
“I’ll get a years subscription to AMC”
I know you don;t mean American Music Club, but you should. If your passion for music is anywhere near your passion for quality drama, then wrap your lugs around this:
Johnny Mathis’ Feet
Patriots Heart
p8ddy says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:49
James Forrest is Lennon…
On this site tonight, as we sit twelve points behind Rangers, we have people defending the strategy, someone trying to sell us a membership certificate even as he accuses fellow fans of not loving the club,
Where exactly did I say that? I gave a definition of love and asked where any of its main elements was to be found in the protestations of love for Celtic.
Folk have different ideas of what love is, they still “love”, just differently or have a different way of showing it.
p8ddy says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:49
RE: GRAVITAS
————————————————————————————————————————-
What I was asking for was a facility on the/any post where you could thumb up/thumb down which would automatically total and push answers up the table so people could easily see and comment on what is actually important to those who post?
Wheres the arrogance in wanting the important issues at the top of the list?
I had this sort of tosh at AGM’s over 15 years ago when they kept handing out £52 dividends when all I wanted was on field investment and the “blazers” kept voting for the status quo because they thought their shares would increase in value forever.
Well the shares are worth next to hee haw now and for more than 70% of the period we as a football team have been all over the place with the exception of MON and WGS tenure.
I think you may well find that winning and arrogance are intrinsically linked-ask the Lisbon Lions. They were arrogant enough to think they could beat anyone…….AND THEY DID
James Forrest is Lennon says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:39
Now Breaking Bad is good, started watching this week, up to episode 4 series one – excellent.
On joining – we’ll see.
SydneyTim says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:24
Celtforlife. Forget huns. Refs sfa
Whats next. Conspiracy that all refs are Motherwell fans or ST johnstone fans
No, but we successfully highlighted last season that more decisions go against us and for them.
Rangers perilous financial plight led to the necessity of their winning the last 3 leagues to get Euro money to keep them in business.
We dont play by the same rules; Boogy on Keane at Ipox is all the evidence you need.
Why any player would play for us under those conditions is a mystery.
Scottish football is a laughing stock BECAUSE they have spent, for years, beyond their means leading to the necessity of Euro money etc etc etc.
Tell us the rules, financially and on a football front, and we can all play fair.
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
Players will not come because we will not pay the going rate for them, not because they are scared of Lee McCulloch, and any player who would rather hide in an easier enviroment should never be considered good enough for our jersey. We have enough of those guys at the club already, and quite how they got here if what you say is true I don’t know.
The Celtic board of directors makes decisions I can barely comprehend for reasons I do not understand. Part of that is their total lack of communication with the fans. This is part of Auldheid’s Grand Delusion too, that the reason they don’t talk to us is because no avenue to do so exists, much as the reason some of us don’t spend more money is that Celtic simply haven’t given us enough to spend it on.
He’s probably right about that. If they sold bread in Celtic wrappers I’d probably buy it over the crap I usually do ….
The fact is, there are MULTIPLE avenues by which they could already communicate with us very well indeed. They don’t want to. They think they’re above that. They look down at us, as people who don’t understand corporate finance, but then I question their own understanding of it, based on recent results.
Last year, Peter Lawwell got together a group of gentlemen and sat them down to a nice lunch at Celtic Park, and told them some of what the boardroom strategy for the next five years would be. He told them those years would be “tough”. You know who they were? Not Celtic shareholders, not supporters reps, not even investors. They were media people. The same media who the same year were destroying our manager on a daily basis. And we only know about it because one of them – Graham Speirs – wrote about it in his column, and said the discussions had there were confidential.
Beat THAT with a stick.
Our biggest problems mate are those inside the walls. With the right calibre of leadership, Rangers would have been a NewCo three years ago. It’s a gift from the Gods that they still could be and with the right calibre of leadership they will crash down three divisions in keeping with the rules, but that chance, like every other, depends on the whims of men who’s minds we do not know.
Oddly, this league situation makes Rangers’ position both less good and more good. Now Motherwell can see over the horizon to a genuine title challenge, and all they have to do is vote with Celtic, get rid of Rangers, and it’s a two horse race between them and us. If they are ambitious and even a wee bit lucky they could end up Champions.
Yet it also spells out how dangerous things are for us in trying to drum up support for “sticking to the rules.” If we were in a stronger position no-one could claim we were doing to gain a sporting advantage.
Who’s to blame for that? Strategic mistakes at Celtic might yet decide the fate of Rangers and that is just plain wrong.
Jockcfc
Bellamy and Keane they helped win us titles???
No, just darned expensive!
gloryhunterscsc
fuxake lads, we’ve had a free hour and all you’ve done is bitch.
I’m a primary school teacher and I get enough of this shite during the week, and this is the only night I get to drink. Well, this and Friday. And the other 5 nights.
Complete the following essay in less than 100 words.
What do you want for Celtic? You may consider and propose any of the following: club goals; membership structure; financial gain; emotional investment; market competitors; other factors.
JF
what is teh going rate in the SPL???
500 bucks a week at St Mirren and Dunfermline
1K a week at St J, Hibs, ICT and Killie
2k a week at DUtd, Motherwell and Aberdeen
5k a week at Hertz
25k a week at Rankers
I’m pretty sure we beat or match those wages!
Except you are forgetting the Celtic Premium Tax that runs at 100% for a quality player, like Keane or Bellamy, still no guarantee of winning though; like Keane and Bellamy!
tarrant:
Lol good job it’s not a school night, isn’t it? My good lady is a Primary School Teacher, in Hamilton.
And right now, even at my most fed up, I am looking at a picture of her and her wee lass, and I smile and feel better.
The most gorgeous two girls in the whole world.
You teachers are my real heroes. You and the NHS staffers.
tarrant says:
30 October, 2011 at 01:38
It became fairly obvious after attending a few open meetings that Celtic are fragmented because the only glue that holds us together is results.
When they go well nothing else matters, but when they do not we become very disunited. The idea of a Membership Scheme for me came from the experience of trying to bring the constituent elements together after two Open Meetings so that no matter results, supporters would feel involved by having information that might help acceptance or understanding when it was justified and change where a better way was found.
The model at
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=383:after-the-ball&catid=45:season-2010-2011&Itemid=80
had elements that Celtic liked and a scheme, that took on board the communication theme, is under development but not ready to launch.
It will not meet all desires but it will be a step in the right direction in terms of providing the capacity for improved communications if it gets the go ahead.
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
I would agree with you, except you can’t on one hand claim that it’s Rangers financial doping which gives them an advantage and then tell me us spending more money wouldn’t guarentee success.
That’s a bit of a contradictory position to hold.
JF
forgot to add to my last post
BEAT THAT WITH A STICK!
we are all hurting mate.
Off to bed.
How is your magnum opus coming along btw?
tarrant says:
30 October, 2011 at 02:05
Cheaper season tickets.
Better players.
If anyone says this is not achievable, i give you…
Braga, Utrecht, Maribor, Malmo, Kaunas, Unirea, etc. etc.
We need to get more bang for our buck, one way or another.
Auldheid:
“The model at
http://celticunderground.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=383:after-the-ball&catid=45:season-2010-2011&Itemid=80
had elements that Celtic liked …….”
I just bet it did. Those would be the bits that involved Celtic fans paying their money, right?
” …. and a scheme, that took on board the communication theme, is under development but not ready to launch.”
For which we weren’t even GETTING the communication you say is at the heart of it.
Now, just looking at that, I know for a fact you were being led along a Merry Dance by those people. And you don’t see it?
Since Dermot Desmond became Celtic’s biggest shareholder the club has enjoyed the largest football budget in Scottish Football. Thanks in no small part to Fergus vision of buiding and filling a 60,000 seat stadium.
We initally enjoyed great success firstly with the great Martin and Henrik at his height and secondly with Gordon and the free kick king Naka.
But where did it all go wrong?
I remember the Bobo debates of four/five seasons past. For me this was the start. When we refused to player our best defender and starting taking on opponents with one hand tied behind our backs. Now if feels like both hands are tied as our signing policy is useless.
When signing players it should be to enhance the squad but every one is a punt on young potential.
MATTHEWS – so far the best of the summer signings looks a very good player.
K WILSON – a bit older but no experience of playing at a reasonable level and out in the cold for a year
WANYAMA – 20 year old Kenyian
BANGURA – £2m unheard of striker from Sierra Leone
After such a great season was this really what Neil Lennon needed to complete the job of replacing rangers at the top of the league?
I have no issue with the football budget just how for the last four/five years it has been wasted on a big squad from which only a few make telling contributions.
JF
Jeesus!
Over the last 3 seasons, at least, due to the perilous financials of der hun WE WOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO WIN THE LEAGUE EVEN IF WE WERE BARCELONA.
FFS you were arguing the very same for months after the ‘Dougie Dougie’ period
Starting to effin lose it now!
How am I being contradictory???
My whole argument is around NOT spending vast amounts of OUR money to win a league WE WONT BE ALLOWED TO WIN
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
One of those Masonic refs gave us a penalty at Ibrox which, had we scored, would have won us the league.
It wasn’t an SFA decision that led to us not closing the deal, and the night at Tynecastle we rose above bigotry at its most naked, hate at its most extreme, to crush Hearts and maintain our challenge.
We secured a points total last year which would have won almost every SPL title since the Year Dot.
We were denied by a combination of bad luck and a catacylsmic decision to allow our least confident player to take the most important kick of the ball we were going to get.
No-one stole last year’s title from us mate, hard as that is to hear. We gave it away at Ibrox. We let them off the hook.
BTW
Samaras to start ahead of Hooper EVERY game
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*):
And I agree you with there. The people who accuse Sammi of lacking guts ought to consider that although his confidence was shot, that although he approached that kick with no real belief he would score it he stepped up regardless.
That man is not a bottler and he never has been. That man never hides. He’s the real deal in courage terms.
JF
If Sammi had scored we would still have lost the league somehow.
But you go ahead and blame Sammi all the same
Nytol
Neil Lennon is (and always will be) a Celtforlife (*O*) says:
I never blamed Sammi. He had the courage to step up to the plate. I felt heart sick for him that day.
I also know it had cost us the title, because I knew Inverness would have the game of their lives and take points from us. I suspected Hearts might raise the game, and the hate, and do the same, but we crushed them that night and took it to the wire.
Samaras should never have been given that responsibility, as low as his confidence was. It was a shocking piece of man management to put that burden on his shoulders.