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Most Huns I know have nothing but contempt for SDM. Any attack o him would b applauded. They know he is at the root of their current circumstances. There would be no retribution if our Board stood up and called him out.
Our Board are driven bu one thing and one thing only. Commercial consideration. There is no regard for the past.. Their focus is on future income. Inexplicably they think Rangers n the top division is worth £10m a year.
I don’t share tha view. Firstly our access to Europe is cut by 50% ( Deary me it gets worse!), huns are boycotting those who they see as consigning them to 3rd Division (denial and distortion), half our fans are boycotting them- as I suspect any other club’s fans are thinking.
We need Hun free league and yearly access to European booty. I would beacilitating tha strategy if I were Lawwell. That probably mans conceding some financial benefits ( tv revenues) to other clubs. However PL is not speculative by nature…he’s a born conservative
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Eurochamps67 @ 2.05
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People quite rightly ask me who would I bring in to replace Ronny.
Firstly let me say, I think he was an imaginative appointment which sadly didn’t work.
Secondly, we will have a problem getting an established successful manager and, look at the likes of Klopp and LVG, who appear to be ‘in the wars’ at Man Utd and Liverpool – so who says an established manager is always the answer.
Ronny was our equivalent of Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool – looked good on paper, but in the end wasn’t right.
I have no idea who should be the next long-term manager, however I think that we could may get Gordon Strachan till the end of the season – no pressing international committments this side of the European Championships.
Strachan coming in now would command great respect, knows the place inside-out and, in my opinion, would ensure the title, and who knows, maybe a treble.
Waiting until we are playing catch-up in the league and/or out of one of cups, would be reactive and bad timing.
Wanting a change of manager is understandable when your frustrated with the team and the perceived level of success. However, I think it is becoming clearer that changing the manager now is a little bit like David Cameron changing the Home Secretary; some cosmetic things will change but the direction of his government will not be changed at all. The direction of Celtic will continue regardless of the manager because of the remit handed down to that manager. That’s just the way we are structured – to carry out the wishes of the largest shareholder (in my opinion). That’s why we will struggle to attract top managers.
I posted yesterday about the structure of Celtic and what the future looks like in everyone’s mind. I’ll repost, not out of vanity, but because I would like to engage in some conversation on the structure of Celtic…
Davidopoulos on 19th December 2015 1:36 pm
Apologies for posting this on a day when all attention should be on Billy McNeill, but if I don’t write it down now the thoughts will keep on whirring around in my head…
One of the things that has is playing on my mind lot recently is that the level of disenchantment amongst a growing number of Celts is reaching a dangerous level. People feel a sense of mistrust with the board, and a disconnect with the club itself. Whether I agree with all the points that are raised, accusations that are levied and mistrust felt doesn’t matter right now. This is because my opinion doesn’t change the fact that the negative sentiments are felt by a large, and growing number, of people, and that they are felt sincerely. That MUST be recognised whether you agree with the viewpoints or not. These people who feel alienated by the club and disenfranchised by the PLC structure are the lifeblood of our club just as much as any “happy clapper” (for the want of a less pejorative term). The number of people being pushed/pulled away from the club is a draining of that lifeblood. That, to me, is dangerous and represents an existential threat to Celtic far greater than anything posed by Sevco, the media etc. I mentioned yesterday the importance of considering that you might be wrong in order to have constructive debate, and I have been doing a lot of that lately.
So that brings me to making myself a question, if Celtic is at risk of losing a swathe of supporters, how do we change that? I don’t mean, “the Celtic board must do X, Y and Z”. I mean, how do we improve the structure of Celtic in order to satisfy the needs, ambitions and ethos of all fans. How do we get equality of representation for all Celts at our club. Because it should be OUR club. How do we get Celtic to reflect the board church that it is, and should be? It seems the club is not mastering that currently. You don’t have to go far to find a fan whose nose is out of joint.
We are currently in the midst of an unfolding story around justice in our sport, but once that is over, regardless of the result, Celtic may need to change. When the dust settles, what does Celtic need to be, or need to look like, to move forward with everyone on board?
My first thought, which I admit may be naive and obvious, is to consider the possibility of a club built around a fan membership structure, like that found in Spain and Germany. I know this has been discussed briefly on here before, but I don’t know enough about these systems and their compatibility with sporting rules or company law here to discuss this in more depth. That’s on me to go away and do research on the subject. Some might argue that the PLC structure does this already via shares being available to purchase, but in this situation you will always have those that are more equal than others, and we currently have one man ruling the roost.
I appreciate that enacting structural change to a company like this would be extremely difficult. People bought shares fairly and squarely and they rightfully belong to the purchaser to do as they please. However, I think that I/we need to talk about structure, and I need to avail myself of more information to do that.
Maybe the horse has already bolted. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. But at least I am examining the stable door, and at least I am barking :)
The groundswell of disgruntlement (copyright Davidopoulos) is too significant to blithely ignore.
Ellboy
If the Celtic board remain silent on the corruption, and expect Celtic supporters to support a rigged league with bent refs, they are totally beyond contempt.
The Celtic board looks increasingly hun like.
It will be unforgivable if they dont confront the institutionalised cheating in Scottish Football…otherwise, whats the alternative?
Supporters have had enough of the whole farce, they are grinding Celtic into mediocrity, while still attempting to charge top dollar.
Its wont wash.
Stand up against corruption,…that’s the only way.
HH
For as long as I can recall,Rangers have lied,cheated,deceived their way to trophies. Ably abetted by their cohorts in office,the press,referees.
All have stood foursquare behind them,and their fans by and large the same.
Meanwhile,Celtic have gone about their business within the rules,even when those rules have been manipulated against us.
Rangers went to the wall-yet my first three sentences are still valid.
My fourth sentence is still valid too-yet we are tearing ourselves apart.
Tales of Rangers death in 2012 weren’t exaggerated. And I rejoiced mightily.
If we’re not careful,we are gonna die from the same thing. Self-inflicted wounds.
Ellboy on 20th December 2015 3:54 pm
THE GREEN MAN
“That’s just the bs excuse trotted out, when Celtic fans are in revolt.”
The club is playing a very dangerous game, if they think we’re going to look the other way. 000’s will turn their backs for good & a half empty stadium will become the norm. We have many issues out on the park & with management but these issues will pale into insignificance, if Celtic fail to find their voice.
——————
Of course many on here have posted that our attendances will increase next season, or the season after because Sevco will be in our league.
Who’s right?
Neganon2
I related my experience from yesterday.
Nothing more nothing less.
What meaning you choose to give it is up to you.
If it keeps you happy I’d be churlish to try and spoil it.
Trailer for the upcoming Ken Loach movie “A poke in the lips now”.
DD: “Are you an assassin?”
Lawwell: “I’m a soldier.”
DD: “You’re neither. You’re an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks, to collect a bill.”
Eurochamps
That was a very useful and encouraging contribution to the Res12 discussion.
Thank you.
No point in changing the Celtic manager until the new Celtic manager is allowed pick his own squad and training staff.
The entire game in Scotland as we know and know why, is going down the toilet. So then, ask yourself, what aspiring manager is going to manage us, who exactly?????
I’d love to see Henrik, but danger is , should he fail, then his image is shattered, but, personally I think he’d be a revelation.
We are crying out for a defensive midfieder and a REAL creative mdfielder.
If not, then sack the board, sack Ronny and sack the players. Then sack the fans.
KINGLuBO
Davidopoulos
Well written and considered post. I agree with your analysis but I’m perhaps more realistic and hopeful on potential solutions.
The bard need to make an enormous gesture by way of concession to the fan base. I think part of this is changing manager but it must be accompanied by a change of approach , fully articulated. The current apathy I believe can be quickly and effectively addressed.
If we were to hear about a growth strategy, a strategy that focuses on our club and not The inclusion or otherwise of Rangers that would go a long way.
I honestly believe we have the potential to fill Celtic Park if the Board get in tune with the support. I believe the support are eager to clutch the olive branch if honestly offered.
If the Board continue as they are then your deepest fears may be realised as the trust could be irrevocably broken if it goes on for a few more seasons.
Lawwell s lots of thing but stupid isn’t one of them. He must know and feel what you articulate.
Afternoon Timland from a warmish hun free mountain valley.
Auldheid
I read what barcabhoy wrote, and with much respect, it’s the biggest load of pish I have read for some time.
The club won’t speak out cos of a few nutters, Dearie me.
HH
The Huddle
It is very clear to me at least.
That if we don’t confront cheating in football, then we will continue to be subjected to it.
It is time now….to change all that.
100 years of bigoted and corrupt football officials and bigoted and corrupt clubs…is quite enough.
There needs to be a football revolution in Scotland…and imo…Celtic should be leading it.
Refusal to confront it warrants extreme contempt.
Which will be well deserved.
HH
CultsBhoy can not relate to Celtic Board ambitions on or off the park
Yeah, perhaps it does only take a small gesture to get people onside, maybe it is the manager. I don’t think we can hang him out to dry on his own as the sole contributor to the current state of affairs, but that’s just my view. That’s the cosmetic change that I was referring to above.
But what happens when Ronny is gone? What happens in 10 years when Lawwell is gone? Will still be a PLC with a primary focus on money. More than likely I think.
Agree, Lawwell is no fool, but he is also not an agent for change (apologies, all this PLC chat has got me bringing out the corporate speak).
We are beginning to feel like just another Scottish a Club… We are Celtic. We have the biggest budget, the biggest support , the biggest stadium, the biggest history.. Etc
We expect a bit of ambition and a bit of glamour.
Henke would bring both.
TET
Like it or lump it is their view. I think it over milked, but I have heard reasons for holding it from a staff member when he was appointed.
I was not prepared to say to him “that was a load of pish” as it was not me who felt threatened.
Cults
—————
I think you’re overestimating our support.
Our attendances at CP have been dropping for years now (and that was with a popular manager like Lenny in charge).
Scottish football died a long time ago and we’ve been treading water ever since, a glamour manager isn’t going to change that. We’ll still sell out the big “glamour” games and the rest will be the same as now.
There is zero glamour in Scottish football no matter the size of our stadium or fan base, football has changed far to much now for the little guy to provide any sort of glamour.
PL:
I’ve got millions but I’ve got no soul and I’m not a soldier.
I’m a shareholder but I don’t like sharing.
I’m a supporter but I don’t do supporting.
My heart feckin bleeds. It really does.
Living Wage it is just the carrot in the puke on the pavement to those who can afford to eat.
I can. But I am not a carrot in a puke. Never in my gods gifted life will I ever become one either, Whether the pavement is heated or not.
Tommy Burns… Loves and Fishes CFC.
The Huddle
Agree the trend you point out re attendances but at other clubs that has changed – Aberdeen being a good example. They have improved the product on the park, they have appointed a very media savvy manager who connects with the fan base. They are buying and retaining better players. They have seized the opportunity… Hence Milne’s comments this week seem like a suicidal declaration to me.
My point is if we introduced some glamour and ambition we could perhaps not fill Celtic Park but at least get the 10-15k season ticket holders who opt not to attend to start turning up. We reverse the trend and who knows…?
One thing for sure continuing with status quo will only see attendances go one way.
I remember certain posters stating last year if the game was proved a bogey then this year they would pull the plug only for this year those certain posters continuing to not only support corruption but advocating that others do likewise.
How many carrots can one puke have?
Lions Embrace
Auldheid
What are the polis for ?
The club use them when it suits, I honestly can’t believe they are using that as an excuse, well I can really, that is what is so sad.
HH
Back in the day almost all Celtic supporters and anyone affiliated with the club could not prove that there was anti Celtic cheating going on and the collective articulated pleas from Celtic supporters, mostly via the MSM, was that could we please fix the “perception” that there was cheating going on?
Well in retrospect it has been proven that the cheating was on a scale even most Celts would not have believed was going on at the time and that the MSM being replaced by the internet bampots was an unforeseen technology development in getting the message out to Celtic supporters.
All in all a good thing.
An amazing coalescence of internet development, demise of Scottish football, liquidation of rangers, exposure of judicial protection of all things hunnery gave us (Scotland) a once in a 125 year opportunity to obliterate this cancer. The SFA hun cancer. Res 12 is a noble effort but it wont do it. The funding needs to be cut and that wont happen.
The problem today is that there is a “perception” that the current Celtic custodians are not Celts, are in it for the money and want the huns back in all their old bigoted cheating glory and I dont think its a perception. It’s another tragedy in the pipeline.
Ffs Celtics future is in doubt know.We lost a game of football this blog is in severe danger of disappearing up its own arse. The same 20/30 poster’s day in day out with the same crap. You go on other sites there’s not pages and pages of depression.
Davidopoulos 4.04
This issue has been ongoing since 2010 see http://celticunderground.net/after-the-ball/
Subsequently an SLO was introduced and at either last AGM or one previous the CST resolution mentioned in the article in a revised form was adjourned to allow examination and improvement to the arrangement introduced after the SLO was appointed which was a Supporters Forum.
I’m not sure what that examination has led to in terms of improvement. I think HT has attended the last SF itself and might be able to update but I do think the matter does need resurrecting.
In the longer term The Battered Bunnett made an excellent post on CQN re DD’s legacy (my term) and what form that should take and is definitely a dialogue that needs to take place at some point in time to take account of supporter and wider shareholders views.
LENNON’S PASSION on 20TH DECEMBER 2015 4:45 PM
Ffs Celtics future is in doubt know.We lost a game of football this blog is in severe danger of disappearing up its own arse. The same 20/30 poster’s day in day out with the same crap. You go on other sites there’s not pages and pages of depression.
You’re damn tooting Lenny’s Passion
lennon’s passion
those on follow follow are never depressed :)
Damn, shouldnt have turned off the Real game 10-2 now
I guess the one positive is Celtic will be able to make the away end bigger for future “Old Firm” games. 30.000 + extra Sevco tickets should see profits sore.
Scottish football is a parochial little competition that’s only of any benefit to us as a route into Europe. Celtic wont be able to grow again until we play in a stronger league. We can’t attract the established players or keep the very good young ones because there are better leagues with more cash and a higher profile.
Some sort of European league structures will come in time, I’m convinced of that. Look how the European Cup of old has developed into a structure for the benefit of the top teams. The Europa League with its various formats hasn’t really worked to anyone’s satisfaction. There will be a movement for change among many of Europe’s clubs outside the very richest.
The Real Madrid Real Vallecano stats sounds like an old Rangers game today.
Vallecano 2-1 up after 12 mins followed by 2 Vallecano reds and a RM penalty.
FT 10-2.! :)
rebus67 on 20th December 2015 3:25 pm
Auldheid,
I was not going to post any more on this blog, but I have to respond to your post. You have a lot of earned respect on this site but that post is, frankly, arrogant. Amongst the points that you make, you seem to deride those that only post to support their belief system(which is presumably different from your own). Well, is that not what you are doing….posting to support your views? I hope you can see the arrogance in what you posted. Let us disagree, politely, with one another, but let us respect the right of all to post their (divergent) views.
– See more at: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/celtic-v-motherwell-live-updates/comment-page-27/#comments
======================
In a conversation with another CQN poster once he observed I usually only comment on a matter I have looked into or have experience of.
I try to support my views with reasonable evidence or my experience before I air them. I prefer informed or experienced opinions to made up ones. If I derided made up ones today it is possibly because in one of them last night I was seen as supporting corruption and racism.
If I was arrogant in my reply I think I earned the right.
Auldheid
Thanks for taking the time to chip in.
I certainly do think it needs to be revisited. I don’t have any concrete answers but the conversations need to open to improve the ratio of questions to answers.
Thanks also for the link, very interesting – I’ve book marked it to return to it. I’m trying to build up a portfolio of this sort of material, so greatly appreciated.
At the time of the SLO being set up, I thought (perhaps cynically) that it was just going to be a high functioning comments box. To be fair I haven’t had any contact with the SLO so can’t comment on the effectiveness but by all accounts JP is a cracking guy and does the club proud.
I’m not sure a liaison officer is the answer to the question being asked. The fans don’t need a conduit for representation, they need representation. But then maybe I’m unfairly judging.
I’d be very interested in reading TBB’s post so will try to hunt it out, or get him to repost if he still has it written down somewhere.
The View on London Rd
CFC feart of Hun retribution
Heard some poor excuses for their inactivity
However, that’s a load of pish
PFAYR
Yip, it’s a cracker.
HH