SPFL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is clear on the subject of offensive singing at football games: “It remains the SPFL’s position that if it can be established that clubs have done everything required in overall management of the event pre-match, during the game and post-match then they have no case to answer”.
This may be the case, but if clubs fail to communicate appropriate instructions to fans after one transgression, which is quickly followed by a second transgression, Doncaster’s defence is moot. The club has failed to do “everything required” pre-match and post-match, and is guilty under the rules, if applied.
Doncaster has employed a rhetorical technique. When faced with a difficult scenario, make a statement which is in itself true, but the parameters of which do not match the scenario.
The chief executive of the Scottish Professional Football League’s comments this morning appear like an attempt to protect a member club from the League’s own rules. He is paid to ensure rules are applied, not negated.
It is no business of his to defer responsibility to the police, or the Justice Ministry, which concocted this inept Offensive Behaviour Act in order to “equalise” criminality, where it didn’t exist, but will not lift a finger on this issue.
What do you know about Andy McAtee? He signed for Celtic from Mossend Hibs in 1910 and left in 1924, having played 438 games on the right wing, scoring 75 goals. He won six league titles and four Scottish Cups and was one of the earliest Celtic heroes. During the Great War he fought in the Alps, and in Haig’s bloody field in the Somme.
When he, and other members of our first genuinely great team, retired, Celtic found it impossible to replace them. We didn’t win another six titles until Inter manager, Helenio Herrera, watched our title win in May 1967.
The Celtic Graves Society mark his final resting place at Kilsyth Cemetery (G5 0TA) at 12:00 on Saturday 28 February. After a graveside blessing, there will be a Q&A with Jim Craig, Tom Boyd and Pat McCluskey, at The Curling Stone pub, High Craigends, Kilsyth. If you can make it along and support the great work of the Society, get there.
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Joe Filippis Haircut ,
I know this isn’t the place – but sometimes when I see something posted that I feel generalises me or my type of Protestant, (however slightly!), along with the Sevco bigots, I feel compelled to try and re-introduce a bit of balance!
Thanks for the advice by the way – we’re pretty aligned I would say.
Have to go out now. Cheers all.
Oneof 70% Ref your post,you just passing through??
Moonbeams WD. Wee Oscar’s our Bhoy and Kano’s our mhan. The Vow – Critically Rebuked by 45% of this fine nation.
Interestingly this story grew arms and legs because it was highlighted in England by Stan Collymore, an English pundit based in England. Until then it was ignored as usual by the Scottish press.
Carry on believing that it’s the fault of the British Establishment though if that makes it easier for you to compute though. Just don’t expect all your fellow Scottish nationalists to agree with you when you denounce anti-Catholcism mind you, you might get some funny looks!
Tamrabam
By what im seeing around me…on a daily basis.
Those old traditions they are attempting to uphold….are being swiftly eroded in Glasgow.
I was amazed on Sunday, at the passion of the young Celtic supporters….our own kids included….I love their passion for Celtic, truly wonderful.
HH
joe_o_76
Welcome to the madhouse:))))))
Phil MacGiollaBhain@Pmacgiollabhain · 11 mins11 minutes ago
It should be remembered that Mr Doncaster admitted in 2012 of attempting to assist Sevco despite there being no “mechanism” within the rules
Keevins
He was merely asking the relevance of singing a country’s national anthem at a European football match.
I obviously missed him commenting on singing songs about a Glasgow KKK member and thug at football matches.
Phil MacGiollaBhain@Pmacgiollabhain · 22 mins22 minutes ago
I just checked back with sources VERY close to the action. The racist abuse of @StanCollymore WAS in the match report.
Anybody else think when Mr Purdie handed in his report he was asked to go away and reconsider,
Now I have no evidence of that being the case but they have previous for it.
F.A.B. Virgil @ 13:10
Thanks for that: your information means that I can at long last quell a deep-lying worry that I might one day take a notion to join the OO: I’m afraid I fall foul of their strict qualifying criteria on a safe number of counts …
VIP
Bawsman,
I’m not going to argue that fact and my original post didn’t mention it (I agree though – it is name calling, but not anti-religious)
but to call NBM clowns because they are trying to do something about the cancer of sectarianism when no-one else is doing anything, shows Ernie up to be a moron.
Fab
@13.10
Does “assisting the lawful and civil powers in the discharge of their duties” include paying their taxes?????
Huns,act like huns,get called huns,simple.
As Burns even said “A huns a hun for a’that”.
As for their singing,the best way to treat it is for every clubs fans in Scotland to keep giving them pelters about dying during games.
Wynd them up even further hehe .
Alasdair Maclean. I appreciate that it is wrong to generalise as we are all individuals and there are many good people who have a banner placed above them and are then judged accordingly which is totaly wrong. Enjoy the rest of your day. H.H.
That time again folks, I have my begging bowl out (AGAIN) for NCCA UK (Neuroblastoma charity)
I’m doing a 10 mile run in Edinburgh on April 19th in memory of my wee pal Oscar & to raise money for other kids and their families,
Plz donate if you can and thanks to all who have donated so far
https://www.justgiving.com/TommyMelly-Edinburgh-Run
Thanks HH
Afternoon all
The most disappointing thing about Doncaster’s comments are not what he said but that nobody can be even slightly surprised.
A spineless weakling sadly typical of politcians, pundits, club officials and media outlets.
Jimbo67
To be fair to Doncaster his statement is before he’s seen the match delegate’s report. (That in itself shows how poorly the organisation is run – can anyone think of any other organisation where a report is all over the news for 3 days and the CEO still hasn’t seen it?)
So all he’s stating is the rules as they currently stand. Surely the point here is that the rules must be changed to punish the clubs for the behaviour of their fans. We can’t continue to accept that only the clubs can effect change within their fanbase.The League itself can make a difference in the same way as UEFA do, by hitting the fans, in extreme cases, where it hurts most – on the pitch.
Unfortunately that leads to us being fined or worse for using the word hun or “sectarianism”. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pursue this rule change it’s just that it has to be managed well to ensure we don’t end up with a points deduction every time we sing an Irish song!
ernie lynch, 12:02
I never said he was wrong.
I have had the pleasure of his company during a Celtic Rangers game and have no doubts about what exactly he is
Paul67
To whom does Neil Doncaster report?
Do you think he might merely getting his personal opinions out there before the matter (of Sevco fans’ racist and sectarian chanting) becomes sub-judice?
Has he held his finger to the proverbial wind and figured ‘I can say this and thereby influence any up-and-coming consideration of the matter’?
In any event, if his hunch is accurate, I think the situation will very soon start to worsen very markedly: the Hun support now has every reason to conclude that they can sing what they want and hee-haw will happen.
If that turns out to be correct, the matter will pass beyond Doncaster and the SPL.
Perhaps that is his cunning plan … ?
VIP
ChippyBhoy
13:44 on
24 February, 2015
======================
I have admiration (and sympathy) for the lass, I think she was simply ill-advised on the term Hun.
I’m old enough to remember them chanting “go home ya Huns” to us.
Amorusso, McCann, Novo, Mo Johnston, all Huns.
Jim Baxter, Wullie Henderson, not Huns.
I know hunnish Sevco supporters, I also know blue noses.
You would think….collectively….that we as Celtic fans could do something about Doncaster and his cronies.
This nonsense cant go on.
HH
Personally, I have no difficulty with them singing what they want. It is a reminder to all that the world out there is bad and you should never drop your guard. Stopping them singing doesn’t suddenly transform them into liberal peace loving rogues. However, if you are going to apply rules, do it properly. Witness West Ham – any fan identified as singning anti-semitic songs will be hit with a lifetime ban. Has Sevco taken a similar approach? Or is it too difficult to identify the ‘minority’ of 25,000 in a 50,000 Hampden? If I can offer one snippet of advice to the club, to the polis, to the footballing authorities – they’re wearing blue red and white…..
Not sure if this has been posted previously but enjoyed this.
https://lostboyos.wordpress.com/2015/02/23/lost-in-glasgow-celtic/
LB
“Wynd them up even further hehe”
Lennon n Mc m,
I’d love to see them wound up…again :)
chippybhoy
13:02 on 24 February, 2015
Ernie L,
By referring to Nil By Mouth as “middle class clowns” you shame yourself and the memory of Mark Scott, who was also by your definition “middle class” – he was a catholic attending a private non-dom school.
When Mark was murdered – what did you do?
What did Celtic / Rangers do?
what did the Catholic church / Church of Scotland do?
What did Scottish society do?
Nothing – shrug the shoulders and move on.
It took a protestant friend of Marks, Cara,(who was 15 when he was killed) and who had sat thru the trial in 96, listening to Donald Finlay try to justify the actions of Jason Campbell, and then had to watched the same DF on tele in 1999, singing “up to my knees in fenian blood” to do something. She set up NBM.
Cara was awarded the Evening Times “Women of the Year” award 2 weeks ago – Are you bitter about that also? Her speech was humbling and a good place to start if you want to think / talk about sectarianism in this country.
But her well considered thoughts are probably too middle class for you.
I’ll happily meet you before or after the Aberdeen game on Sunday to discuss this, but to call them clowns shows you up to be the no-mark troll most on here thing you are.
BTW, The guy who currently runs NBM would also laugh in your face if you called him middle class.
~~~~~~~~~++~~~~~~~~~
Powerful post,mate.
bobby murdoch’s curled-up winklepickers
02:16 on 24 February, 2015
Many of us on here have followed the courageous battle by Tony Conway,son of RWE,against the devastating effects of ALS/MND.
A truly awful illness,which also robbed us of Jimmy Johnstone.
Tony took the time-and no inconsiderable effort-to keep people informed via his own blog,”dontshrink.com”. It was refreshingly short on anger and despair,and full of love and reminiscence. Never maudling,though!
A fitting tribute to a strong and courageous man is contained below.
http://www.vmikeydets.com/HomePage.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9800&KEY=
R I P Tony.
bobby murdoch’s curled-up winklepickers
02:18 on 24 February, 2015
Annoyingly,it only brought up that site’s home page!
This time,I hope…
http://www.vmikeydets.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9800&ATCLID=209900136
The honest Cover Up
your post to me makes not one iota of sense!
denouncing anti-catholicism is just the funny bit you made up for the purpose of misrepresentation. You looking for a job at the SPFL by any chance.
MWd said AYE
Livibhoy
Magic article that….Celtic fans at their best.
HH
The lack of action on Rangers fans singing will only lead to more singing and more calls from more people from different walks of life to do something about it.
It is socially unnavceptable. As the video evidence of Hapden shows it is not just a hardcore it is the vast majority. Men women and children chanting and gesticulating en masse.
I have never participated in any songs that could cause offence to any decent minded individual. There are many more like me in the stands at Celtic Park and at away games. Therefore when people attempt to draw equivalence to the Rangers supports chanting with our supports IRA chants and songs I know with some certainty that the majority do not participate and there is no degree of equivalence.
As everyone on here knows the songs debate is a cyclical argument. I do not wish for this post to culminate in naval gazing over the rights and wrongs of the IRA chants and songs. The point I do want to make is that the minority who do sing or chant should not make me feel guilty about supporting Celtic. I shouldn’t have to withdraw my support to make my point and nor should I be made to feel uncomfortable about standing in the same crowd as someone who decides to chant or sing. I am not guilty by association.
On the other hand I would feel pretty associated with the majority if I was turning up to Ibrox or a Rangers away game.
The Celtic support will change with demographics and borders. The Rangers support will die out as those Borders and traditions that they hold dear become irrelevant. It appears it was only ever about hating and negativity for them. Never about a positive culture in sport.
Sticking up for the SFA/SPFL both the Chelsea and West Ham incidents were caught on poor quality mobile phone footage… Sevco fans at Raith were only recorded on HD. Maybe someone could record it on their phone of the TV, wobble it about and send it through. I’m sure the SFA/SPFL would act instantly.
MacGiollaBhain@Pmacgiollabhain · 22 mins22 minutes agoI just checked back with sources VERY close to the action. The racist abuse of @StanCollymore WAS in the match report.
Might be an idea to send this info to Stan Collymore..
Posting on your phone never a good idea when you feel passionate. Some typos and predictive errors in there.
the hooped crusader
13:20 on 24 February, 2015If it’s only a minority why no arrests?Unless there was too many to arrest, well which one is it Mr Doncaster?
That looks like it sums it up mate.
IMO,Protestants in Scotland have no hatred for Catholics in Scotland. We have,by and large,learned to live together in a community,with no real enmity.
Of course,that wasn’t always the case. But times have changed.
The only occasions that such hatred manifests itself is when members of The Orange Order,and supporters of Rangers gather together in groups. People who have Catholic family members and close friends fall victim to the mob mentality and outpouring of vitriolic hatred that we have come to associate with them.
Scottish society doesn’t have a problem with anti-Catholic and anti-Irish racism.
It has a problem with how it deals with it.
Moonbeams WD. Wee Oscar’s our Bhoy and Kano’s our mhan. The Vow – Critically Rebuked by 45% of this fine nation.
Sorry if you are confused by my post. To make it clearer, the point I was making is that it makes no sense to blame all of Scotland’s problems on the “Union” as you appear to do (unless I’m reading you wrong). Especially when this problem(anti-Catholic sectarianism at football) is quite specific to Scotland and it takes the media in England to highlight it and denounce it.
If you’re still confused you may as well give up mate! All the best in any case,
Hail Hail.
Seen on twitter
“Today I accuse my club St Mirren of backing a governing body which ignores racism and are therefore complicate”.
Gearoid.
No it means they stand ready to assist tax collection…….. Apparently
HH
Leftclick @1416
Chick Young or Neganon I’ll bet. :))
” if it can be established that clubs have done everything required …”
What is required?
Serious question. Is there a rule which lists these requirements?
JJ