SPFL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is clear on the subject of offensive singing at football games: “It remains the SPFL’s position that if it can be established that clubs have done everything required in overall management of the event pre-match, during the game and post-match then they have no case to answer”.
This may be the case, but if clubs fail to communicate appropriate instructions to fans after one transgression, which is quickly followed by a second transgression, Doncaster’s defence is moot. The club has failed to do “everything required” pre-match and post-match, and is guilty under the rules, if applied.
Doncaster has employed a rhetorical technique. When faced with a difficult scenario, make a statement which is in itself true, but the parameters of which do not match the scenario.
The chief executive of the Scottish Professional Football League’s comments this morning appear like an attempt to protect a member club from the League’s own rules. He is paid to ensure rules are applied, not negated.
It is no business of his to defer responsibility to the police, or the Justice Ministry, which concocted this inept Offensive Behaviour Act in order to “equalise” criminality, where it didn’t exist, but will not lift a finger on this issue.
What do you know about Andy McAtee? He signed for Celtic from Mossend Hibs in 1910 and left in 1924, having played 438 games on the right wing, scoring 75 goals. He won six league titles and four Scottish Cups and was one of the earliest Celtic heroes. During the Great War he fought in the Alps, and in Haig’s bloody field in the Somme.
When he, and other members of our first genuinely great team, retired, Celtic found it impossible to replace them. We didn’t win another six titles until Inter manager, Helenio Herrera, watched our title win in May 1967.
The Celtic Graves Society mark his final resting place at Kilsyth Cemetery (G5 0TA) at 12:00 on Saturday 28 February. After a graveside blessing, there will be a Q&A with Jim Craig, Tom Boyd and Pat McCluskey, at The Curling Stone pub, High Craigends, Kilsyth. If you can make it along and support the great work of the Society, get there.
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In fact…Defo chick.
Neg can spell :)
ChippyBhoy
13:02
Good post.
Something to bear in mind about NBM is that they would regard 90% of todays posts as sectarian in content as any post with the tern “hun” in it is deemed by them to have sectarian conotations.
NBM have been instimental in encouraging the Scottish goverment to adopt a new term of sectarianism that covers support for political organisations in Ireland. Their litrature now refers to “political sectarianism” and they support the efforts of Focus in arresting young men and women for singing ROH as they see this as being an example of political sectarianism.
NBM, like other anti sectarian organisations in Scotland are very aware that to get funding they have to target both sides as both are as bad as each other after all.
Try writing to them and ask them to deny what I’ve said. I have on several occasions written to them to justify their posiion on the use of the word “hun” and political sectarianism.
Their response has been disapointing from a surposedly impartial organisation.
After Mark Scott’s murder , people put flowers etc on or around where it happened . I didn’t see it but suspect it was similar to others I have seen with football scarfs and tops, cards and flowers .
Don’t know how long it was there but I do know that Jason Campbell’s mother tore it down. A female member of the orange order told me , she was shocked but too scared to challenge it.
My email today to the SPFL. I wont hold my breath for a reply
Dear Sir
I have this morning read with interest the statement of the Chief Executive Neil Doncaster on the alleged sectarian chanting at the Raith Rovers v Rangers game at Starks Park on Friday 20th February 2015.
Mr Doncaster states according to the BBC Website “It remains the SPFL’s position that if it can be established that clubs have done everything required in overall management of the event pre-match, during the game and post-match, then they have no case to answer.”
Can he advise therefore what actions were taken by Rangers after the recent League Cup Tie at Hampden Park where numerous sectarian chants were heard and reported? Was there a statement for example on the clubs official website condemning those who participated? If this has happened and I have missed it then this would be evidence of something having been done “pre-match”. Similarly since the match last Friday what statements have been made by Rangers condemning in the strongest terms the chants and songs that were clearly heard not only by those present at the match but also the thousands watching on live TV. If this has happened and again I have missed it then this would be evidence of action being taken “post-match”.
If as I suspect neither of these have happened then it would appear to me – your average football fan – that the only course of action open to the SPFL is to impose a proportionate sanction against the club to ensure this behaviour is no longer tolerated at football grounds in Scotland.
Kind Regards
HH
Make no mistake, that it was the bigotry and the associated sectarianism that killed Rangers, stone dead.
Financial mayhem, greed and bigotry all to beat Celtic, led to the borrowing, the failure and inability to repay meant ultimate implosion.
David Murray tried for ten years to offload his mess, and found a pound when a patsy eventually stepped in, to finalise the end.
No investment just mounting debt and the net result is the same songbook Sevco stupor.
A new club facing the same ending, with no future just don’t expect the SFA to act, when society can’t even deal with the problem of Scotland’s sons of shame.
jungle jim hot smoked
14:27 on 24 February, 2015
” if it can be established that clubs have done everything required …”
What is required?
Serious question. Is there a rule which lists these requirements?
JJ
——-
Section 23
Sub-Section 16b
Paragraph 4
Rules on offensive singing at football matches.
Clubs are exempt from punishment if it has be proven that they have taken all the necessary action to prevent this occurring. This includes the banning of guilty fans, warnings from the club’s PA and most importantly sticking fingers in their ears whilst shouting ” la la la la la I can’t hear you”
Paul67,
Can you advise us what our representatives on the boards of the SFA and SPFL doing about this refusal to sanction the law breakers by the very authorities who sanctioned my club for less
There is a serious amount of deflection going on here as roy croppie has said. We must keep our focus and ensure that we, as a support and club pursue those engaged in wrongdoing.
In any other walk of life it would be procedurally unfair to make a statement in advance of seeing the report. Doncaster needs to have his wings clipped and we must ensure that due process within the rules of the game is applied.
Avoid ringing in the radio shows, which inevitably end up bringing you on to their ground to end up having a meaningless discussion about the word hun.
This is nothing but obfuscation.
Árd Macha
Árd Macha
So the Rangers fans can sing loud and proud about a violent, convicted Fascist and nothing can be done? Welcome to Scotland.
Stan Collymore @StanCollymore · 8m 8 minutes ago
I believe Scottish football admin/football journalism is fundamentally corrupt.
And will be prove thus in time.
Scots, keep outing them.
Stan Collymore @StanCollymore · 2h 2 hours ago
Imagine English FA statement saying we can’t take any action against “we’re up to our knees in Jewish blood” sang by 000′s
Food for thought.
Chairbhoy@13:27
Not only has Chelsea tried hard to identify those responsible for the Paris metro incident, Mourinho repeated on ‘Goals On Sunday’ that the club was ‘ashamed’ , and sorry to have such people identify themselves with Chelsea.
Has there been any comment from anyone in any capacity, even a gardening one, from Sevco?
It was carnage on the show, incidentally.
Not referring to the Citeh v Newcastle game, but Jose attacking Sky Sports for their language in describing Diego Costa stepping on his opponent and other incidents as ‘crimes’, while not using such strong words for similar incidents, involving Toure v Norwich last year, or Van Persie v West Ham this season,or even when the foul is of the potentially career-ending variety, as Barnes of Burnley’s was on Matic.
If Diego’s standing on his opponent was a ‘crime’, what word do you have for Barnes’ foul, he asked them, getting no reply.
He left Kamara and the other presenter unable to utter a word in Sky’s defence.
No way will Jose allow pundits or the media in England to vilify his players unchallenged.
Refreshing to see them taken on in such an aggressive way.
We can gripe about Doncaster Regan & Ogilvie till the SFA deal with all clus equally and without fear or favour (I know)
But only the clubs can save us from them (I know I know)
leftclicktic
The key is to skip past them and go straight to the MP’s. I believe Gordon Brown is MP for Kirkcaldy.
LB
Yorkbhoy
Well, Sevco are doing one of the three. It is a start, I suppose.
JJ
Burgas Hoops
Did Stan Collymore really say this:
“I believe Scottish football admin/football journalism is fundamentally corrupt.”
JJ
borgo67
14:33 on
24 February, 2015
After Mark Scott’s murder , people put flowers etc on or around where it happened . I didn’t see it but suspect it was similar to others I have seen with football scarfs and tops, cards and flowers .
Don’t know how long it was there but I do know that Jason Campbell’s mother tore it down. A female member of the orange order told me , she was shocked but too scared to challenge it.
I worked round the corner at the time, it was destroyed more than once but a woman (don’t know who) kept trying to put it back together as much as possible.
Are the SPFL and SFA afraid of the Sevco fans? Or is it just that they are so desperate not to have to impose another fine that might push them deeper in to MASH’s debt?
Or maybe they think sevco have been punished enough?
Stan Collymore is to be applauded for his efforts regarding the condemnation of sectarian/racist songs. Perhaps the way forward is to hear a few more English (or any neutral) football people speak out about this. They are more likely to be listened to than anyone from north of the border.
ChippyBhoy
13:02 on 24 February, 2015
A well intentioned middle class clown is still a middle class clown.
And any organisation that regards the terms hun and tim as sectarian is not to be taken seriously however tragic the circumstances of its genesis were.
As a matter of tactics I would be encouraging a ceasefire on the Ra songs at away games.
We all know they are waiting to pounce on it.
Incidentally the most republican people I know were always the least likely to sing the songs at the games….. Reason being? Dunno just an observation……
There should be a coordinated effort from ALL fan groups to highlight the Sevco sectarianism (favouritism) and the SPFL ineptitude (removal of ND): hold up an A4-sized red card at kickoff at all matches until action has been taken.
rt,
Aye just bare yer arse and appease, that’ll show them
My da was a nice wee man, well liked by all down Balloch. Didnae have a bigoted bone in his body. His first wife, who died in childbirth, was a Sunday School teacher and her grampa was the local grand master. He referred to the huns as Nazis.
Heading over for my first game in ages – haven’t seen Paradise since the facelift.
Anyone heading over on the early morning flight from dublin sunday with Ryanair?
Also – any good boozer for watching the rugby after the game – city centre preferably?
Thanks
EL this guy is a middle class clown in your opinion, or is that a fact?? H H Hebcelt
Just a thought?
Without stupidity, there wouldent be intelligence.
Without ugliness, there wouldent be beauty.
And, without Sevco, there wouldent be HUNS.
So! Maybe the world needs them after all?
Happy Hoopy birthday to my big handsome grandson Josh who is 17 today. x x HaiL HaiL
RobertTressell
Might be best to ask them but my reasoning was always that republicanism had nothing to do with football and singing rebel songs at football matches did not advance the republican cause.
For me there is a time and a place for getting the song book out and in the stadium isn’t one of them. We have plenty of football and folk songs etc. in our repertoire so no need to break out the rebs.
Likewise I was never a fan of anyone wearing football tops while attending a republican march be it the Connolly march back in the day or any march.
To be honest I don’t sing the Soldiers Songs at games either, well not in English anyway but I have to be honest and say that’s because a popular add in has in my opinion any place.
Thinking about singing and the songs that Rangers/Sevco sing and see if anyone can come up with any actual football songs that they sing that don’t have any anti-Irish racist or anti catholic sentiments?
I suspect it is a very short list
T T
Thats funny!!!!
Are Celtic playing mid week ?
Let’s focus on our club
GM/SoT
Just saw your posts in reply to mine. Cheers gents I knew that it wasn’t possible to join if you were a Catholic but I was unsure the criteria for other religions.
Affski…….
HT,
Admittedly I was kinda guessing on what I’d heard.
The longer post on criteria (apologies as I canny mind who posted it) explains it much better.
It’s a bit like the ol prime minister joab then ;)
HH
oldcastlebhoy supports Wee Oscar
Also – any good boozer for watching the rugby after the game – city centre preferably?
a lot of the Irish support will go to the Kerrydale suite after the game on sunday all you need to do is show your ticket at the door
as for a pub in the town , just follow the crowd and then the noise you cant go wrong
HH
“Are Celtic playing mid week ?
Let’s focus on our club”
Tbj,
Well said.
What about that inter eh? How rubbidge are they? ;)
magnificentseven
Didn’t know it happened on more than one occasion.
The fact that his mother destroyed it says it all really .
Hail hail
Jungle Jim Hot Smoked
14:58 on
24 February, 2015
Burgas Hoops
Did Stan Collymore really say this:
———————————————————
have a look yourself JJ
https://twitter.com/stancollymore
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/
15:14 on
24 February, 2015
Happy Hoopy birthday to my big handsome grandson Josh who is 17 today. x x HaiL HaiL
Hoopy Birthday Josh
HH
TBJ says Wee Oscar Knox is in heaven with the angels
15:17 on
24 February, 2015
Are Celtic playing mid week ?
Let’s focus on our club
:-)))
HAIL HAIL