We’re close enough to the English psyche to intimately understand their hopes and fears ahead of a tournament like the World Cup, but the M74 provides enough space for those of us based within a short distance of Celtic Park to have the kind of perspective that’s not possible for most fans immersed in the moment.
For long enough, England, along with Spain and France, were the perennial underachievers of European international football, which was dominated by “skilful” Italians and “efficient” Germans, while even the Dutch and Czechs have managed vastly more major final appearances than England.
France, then Spain, got the monkey off their backs, but England still relive their regular tournament nightmare, although this time it looks likely they will bow out before troubling any of their players in a penalty kick competition.
So cut England open and what bleeds out? After the game last night Danny Murphy on BBC Radio 5Live tried to offer objective resistance to the idea that England lacked passion from a tidal wave of calls, asking “Where is the Terry Butcher with a blood soaked bandage around his head?”, “Where is the crying Gascoigne?”
Fans often confuse sporting defeat with a lack of will to win. This notion was expressed last August when Celtic lost to Shakhter Karagandy, aided and abetted by an ITV commentator who proposed the notion during live broadcast. I’m pretty sure upwards of 95% of us have played the game at some level, but time seems to remove the memories of what it’s like to be losing in a team sport, and importantly, just how difficult it can be to reverse momentum.
Suggesting professional footballers don’t try during some of the most important games of their season is an embarrassing failure to think from another’s perspective.
Listening to the radio last night and again this morning, there was no dispute to the claim that what England needed was a manager who could lose his temper in the dressing room.
Even Murphy didn’t feel comfortable enough to take on the nation on this one, instead assuring listeners that Roy Hodgson was capable of losing his temper. This was mean to be supportive. It was surely viewed as such by many. This morning, Kevin Phillips trotted out the hoary old “lacked passion” line.
Is there any other field of human endeavour where losing control of your emotions is viewed as an attribute? Football managers exist in a highly competitive, technically exacting environment. At the top level they have to communicate subtle instructions to highly skilled professionals who have heard it all before from lippy managers. By the 30th rant they are all immune and it’s highly unlikely that intimidation led to an increase in performance first time out.
Despite this, managers are supposed to demonstrate a primitive human weakness to an audience who can often scarcely tell the difference between a football match and a pantomime.
We have to be different. We have to be cleverer; let the rest satisfy their need for an alpha-male role model – because make no mistake about it – this is what they’re really craving, while Celtic show uncompromising adherence to getting the best people for the job. On a side, note, can you imagine what appointing Roy Keane would have said about our strategy?
Roy Hodgson has done enough in the game to prove he’s a good manager but he’s more Euro-sophisticate than an archetypal alpha-male. Best of luck to him.
The Celtic Graves Society are having a fundraising raffle to generate funds. 50% will go towards their excellent work and 50% will go to the Northern Ireland Childrens’ Hospice, who looked after Wee Oscar recently. For the cost of a £5 raffle ticket, you can win a singed boot from Scott Brown or from Virgil van Dijk.
To buy your ticket go to Paypal and send £5 to donate@celticgraves.com
Don’t worry if you don’t have a Paypal account, you can still work through Paypal with a debit or credit card. Please add the phrase “Boots Raffle” to the Paypal subject line, and they have asked if you could alert them to which site you picked the message up from, so “CQN” will do.
Good luck
Visit the CQN Bookstore to get Tommy Gemmell to sign your personal copy of his book, All the Best.
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thomthethim for Oscar OK
13:13 on 20 June, 2014
SFTB,
Well said.
Most of us have opinions.
Nothing wrong with that.
However, when we confuse our opinions or hypothesis’ as facts and go off on one, then that is crazy.
Only a few of us know the background and we’re no’ telling!
On a different matter.
It will be interesting to see if the Deila/ Collins team can rediscover the Beram Kayal who first joined the club.
If they can harness his energy into a potent force fir the team.
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I’m sorry but if you’re unwilling to support a ‘fact’ then it remains an opinion :-)
“an audience who can often scarcely tell the difference between a football match and a pantomime.”
Paul still hasn’t forgiven us for getting Nir Biton getting sent off against Ajax.
OOOOOOH!!!
Bawsman 1210
Ja (nein) und Fraulein…!
HH
The English media always overinflates their team’s chances – and then turns on them when they fail to meet their unrealistic expectations.
The EPL is one of the best leagues in the world – but only because the silly money allows clubs to attract so many great non English players. How many top European teams outside the EPL are signing English players?
LiviBhoy 12:40
I think as you said, Spain are tired or fatigued being the better word. They do have a problem in my opinion that they do not have the ability to mix it up, this is either down to coaching, system or the lack of different types of offensive weapons up front.
All a team needs to do with Spain is pack the centre of the penalty box and keep concentration. If they had a striker who was great in the air they could prevent teams from doing this, that would then allow them to use pace and/or passing to get behind defences. Just now they have the same affliction that Barcelona seem to have, the desire to pass the ball into the net and only shoot when there is a clear path to goal. This might be great for possession football but can be easily countered (with a bit of luck and a lot of organisation).
Two points re ranting managers.
Bill Shankley was no shrinking violet, but he said “”If I’ve got players on my books, I search into them to see what they are, what they are made of, and I can tell you within a month what he is. Whether he needs to get bollocked or needs to get encouraged or he needs to be shifted altogether.” So even more than 50 years ago, some managers appreciated that motivation is different things for different people.
And secondly, screaming at people generally doesn’t work, although it can seem that it works. To quote the New York Times on Tversky and Kahneman, amongst the most influential modern economists (Nobel Prize winners):
“When they were instructors at Hebrew University in 1968, Dr. Kahneman said, they became fascinated by how fighter-pilot trainers, taking classes at the university, decided whether to use rewards or punishments to motivate their pilot trainees.
Even though the trainers were told that rewards were more effective, they argued against that idea. The trainers said that when a student was praised for a good flight, he was more likely to do less well the next time. When a student was berated for a poor flight, he tended to do better the next time. Drs. Tversky and Kahneman recognized that the trainers were being misled because they did not recognize that the law of averages would predict that an unusual performance, good or bad, would be likely to be followed by a performance closer to average”.
Regression to the mean is the term used for this. I very much doubt that the Israeli air force still rants at their fighter pilots. Their football managers might.
MY view on the BBC debate – good or bad or just poison within Scotland?
There is no doubt that the BBC of the 60s through to the 80s was more liberal and less right wing in its news distortion than were the commercial channels of ITV. There was the odd pro-Tory news outlet, such as the Barrett & Lawley years on Nationwide but it was less right wing in its outlook generally.The right wing press and politicians recognised this and have come after the BBC to try to make them more like the rest of the media and to have them bat less obviously for the opposition.
The same pressures were put on Liberal news outlets in the USA and they have seen a massive shift to the right since the late 80s. Fox news output would have been seen as comically distorted if it operated in the 60s. Now it is seen as a right of centre but mainstream media company, and only viewed as loony by a small minority who are easily dismissed and marginalised as Liberals, Elitists or, even, The Establishment. Labels which play badly in Peoria and small town USA.
The BBCs heyday has long gone BUT when you are asked to recall good British television drama and programmes most people will recall BBC output, even in recent years. ITV channels do produce good television occasionally but it is largely wall to wall mush. Even though the BBC nowadays is also mostly wall to wall mush, that simple test of naming your favourite programmes would soon let you know how superior the BBC has been.
Who produces the best comedy?
Morecambe & Wise were better on the BBC
Blackadder
The Young Ones
Monty Python
Dave Allen
Yes it also produced a lot of middle class bland, like Butterflies and My Family, but it has done working class slapstick and bawdy crudeness just as well as ITV, with Allo, Allo and Mrs. Brown’s Boys.
When you think of ITV comedy, you will struggle to get beyond Hancock and the short lived Not the 1948 show. Not till Channel 4 came along with Father Ted and the IT crowd did the commercial channels start to compete with the BBC.
Similarly in Drama, ITV international successes like Downtown Abbey are as rare as Hen’s Teeth where the BBC can boast Brideshead, The Singing Detective, I Claudius, Sherlock, and the modern Doctor Who.
Even in Scottish output, STV has existed for over 55 years now and has barely commissioned a decent programme (Brond is one of the few that spring to mind). It is a money making exercise of low quality TV output. BBC Scotland for all the faults of its sport department has produced Scotch & Wry, Rab C. Nesbitt, Chewin the Fat and Burnistoun. It also did Tutti Frutti.
So the differences may be lessening but the BBC remains a defence against wall to wall pap. How long would Channel 4 be allowed to produce innovative comedy, if it did not have to compete with the BBC?
The most telling difference in ethical approaches between BBC and ITV were laid bare by their responses to the TV Competitions Scandals, where it was found that programmes were rigging their competitions and awarding prizes at random to the sons and daughters of producers etc;.
Within days, the BBC had stopped all their own competitions and applied strict rules to any future competitions to be held. To this day, the number of competitions they run has dropped dramatically.
ITV did likewise….. for 3 days. They re-introduced those late night simple but impossible “guess the word” phone in comps that were specifically designed to part a late night drunk from what remained of their bank balance. Their necks could not be scorched.
So, while there is a lot wrong with the BBC and, especially, BBC Scotland news and sport, it remains head and shoulders above the commercial channels, though the distance of its lead has been drastically cut.
Treating the BBC as “just as bad” as its main rival, is to fall into the same trap as the non-Old Firm fan who sees Celtic and rangers as two cheeks of the same erse.
Let’s stand up for the good parts of the BBC by getting them to rectify their many faults because they will, in the main, be more responsive to such pressure than will ITV stations who chase ratings and sponsors only.
rodow1
good interview.was thinking last night, England picked what they thought was the best players, not the best team.
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/football-toure-brother-dies-aged-28-101644760–sow.html
Ibrahim Toure, brother of Yaya and Kolo, has died at just 28 years old. Very sad. RiP
Friesdorfer
13:23 on
20 June, 2014
=====================
schône :-)
The problem with England is much more than the players who were picked, or any perceived lack of effort. A few years ago, I would not have put them in the top 8 in the world, but would have in the top 16. Now I am not so sure I would put them in the top 16. They will beat some teams, even a top 8 team every now and again, it happens.
But they are technically inferior to many of the teams at the World Cup imo. First touch, passing, vision, game reading etc. They simply lack some of the basic skills. First they need to recognise their problem, before they can even think of resolving it.
But my worry is Scotland. I really like GS, I hope he can achieve something, like qualifying. However, it annoys me watching some of the other teams at the WC, making cross field passes, centre backs skipping past forwards to drive the ball forward, strikers who can hold up the ball, and bring players into the game, even the simple skill of being aware of where your team mates are, or are going to be, so you can make a dummy or play a through ball.
I don’t know how we got to where we are, but sometimes we look so far behind the other teams, in basic fundemental skills, that it is scary. I don’t have any answers, but I really hope someone, somewhere in charge of sorting it is aware of it, and has a plan. Because as much fun as it is, to sit and slag England off, they still got there, and we missed yet another party!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_programmes_produced_by_BBC_Scotland
The BBC may ‘boast of Brideshead’ but when I was growing up it was bein’ shown on the ole Border.
DBBIA/JuliaFlyteCSC
Sneddoni
13:37 on
20 June, 2014
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You can see Broonie & Charlie stand head and shoulders above the rest of the Scotland team when they are on the ball.
They have learned posession football at the highest level, no substitute for keeping and using the ball………….the confidence to do that requires talent too though.
I am working from home today and haven’t left the house yet so haven’t yet seen the long faces and sackcloth and ashes which doubtless are in evidence throughout the capital of Foreign.
In saying that, I watched the game last night my son and his mate (both Foreigners) and they kind of just chatted their way through the game, showing emotion only when Wayne Rooney equalised. 30 seconds after the game, they were watching funny videos on YouTube. All the talk about “a nation hurting badly” is probably a wee bit over the top.
Now, if it we were talking about “a nation playing badly” that would be a different thing altogether.
In truth, I am neither up nor down about Foreign’s football team. I don’t like to see myself in the ABF (anyone but foreign) camp as I’d rather not define myself more by reference to another football nation rather than my own.
Club football….well, that’s different. I am firmly in the ABS (Anyone but Sevco) camp…..as indeed, apparently, are many fans of the deid club now.
DBBIA
Apologies for the Brideshead misplacement.
It was a rare success by Granada.
I am sure people can find the odd exception to anything.
I am outlining a general rule of superior BBC output, rather than an unwavering superiority in all cases.
There was a time when I used to get a lot of pleasure from seeing the England ‘Expects’ mob getting knocked out of big competitions. I never gloated about it, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
But after Euro 96, when they didn’t reach the final, I became more relaxed about it all and realised England were unlikely to ever challenge for major honours.
Now I don’t even watch their games. I know they are not good enough, and they have never been particularly pleasing on the eye anyway. They are the international version of Sevco – an irrelevance.
Roy Hodgson seems like a decent man, but they have had better managers who couldn’t raise the players to do it when it mattered.
But then, how do you lift a group of players who go into these tournaments believing they are superstars? Because that is what they hear on a daily basis through performing in a hyped-up league.
I spoke to a guy at work the day before England played Italy. He named seven players in the squad and two others not in the squad that he described as “world class”.
When that is the mindset you are never going to achieve anything.
SFTB- also ‘The Young Ones’ was rubbish; one very thin joke stretched even thinner.
You forgot to mention ‘Dad’s Army’; I’ll let it go this time but your card is marked.
Modren unwavering superiority in all cases is rubbish.
SFTB
Boys from the Blackstuff
The Monocled Mutineer
Play for today (with a lot from Mr Potter)……Steven Poliakoff (Shooting the Past…)
Not forgetting Quiz Ball and The One Show
HT,
“I’m sorry but if you’re unwilling to support a ‘fact’ then it remains an opinion :-)”
….and therein lies the problem.
Too many act as if there opinions are facts and rant on about it, usually always to the detriment of the club, as per a personal agenda.
DBBIA
OK You won’t accept The Young Ones, what about Bottom?
P.S. The University Challenge sketch is very good
Porridge, Reggie Perrin (the original),
Not forgetting thingummy, whatsitsname and thon other wan
and The One Show
What was the Greek score last night?
The Youg Ones – magic – even better when getting p*shed before headin to the Wim Jansen
Bawsman
13:41 on
20 June, 2014
Don’t get me wrong, they are 2 of my favourite players. But the fact that they are considered head and shoulders above the rest, says a lot. They have great determination, very good at breaking up plays from the other team, and as you say, they don’t give the ball away easily.
But they never appear comfortable with possession to me, able to drift past a player, lift their head and find a killer pass. Of course they need team mates to be making a good runs etc, and that could be part of the problem. But when I see us play, I don’t see enough players happy to be in possession, comfortable enough to make some easy one two passes with team mates, or play a long and accurate pass. Nobody seems to be thinking more than 1 or 2 passes ahead.
I think we are years behind some of the other teams in terms of passing, possession and breaking teams down.
No Bertie Auld this week?
Ach damn it. I was hoping to tell him about another old guy I met who really did play in the same team as him at Birmingham.
Greece drew 0-0.
They had a bhoy sent off in the first half.
They stil lhave a chance of going through to the round of 16.
Cadizzy
Why were your son and his mate watching funny videos on YouTube, when the England defence were on tv?
Very much looking forward to a boring, sterile 0-0 in the early game this afternoon!
Define me how you like!
PHILBHOY 1238
I was faster,fitter and more innovative in my teens too.
weeron
Interesting point on the two yellow card rule. Maybe a sin bin for ten minutes rather than a penalty would improve the games. A sort of power play scenario. I believe a penalty should only be given for an offence in the box. A double yellow in the middle of the pitch would not constitute a penalty for me. Also a meaningless tackle resulting in a weak 2nd yellow would then have a team facing a penalty.
In fairness I don;t see this scenario changing anytime soon unless the Americans get a stranglehold of the game but I reckon they would go the full hog and introduce 5 minute sin bins for players getting a first yellow to excite the crowd and instroduce power plays many times in matches.
Having sin bins is also a difficult thing to manage. You would need to bins two more officials to manage them and a clock watcher to tell them when to come out. Does the player stay in a sin bin the whole time whilst the ball is in play? Surely the team a man short would resort to booting the ball up the pitch and out the ground until their player returned. It would make the game worse in my opinion.
I do agree to some extent on a 2nd yellow but the issue should be resolved by the referee not handing out weak yellow cards. It is either a yellow card or it isn’t and also the player having some sense once yellow carded to avoid getting another one.
I don’t see anything changing in the near future but it is always interesting to discuss new advances in the game to improve it. The foam being used at free kicks in this world cup is so simple that it is positively brilliant. I thought it would result in moe free kick goals being scored but it has had the opposite effect. Maybe after all the team stealing a few yards towards the ball with their free kick wall actually do not help their goal keeper because he is unsighted by their closer presence to the ball before it is struck. Who knows? Maybe the players taking them just haven’t got warmed up properly yet.
LB
jude2005 is neil lennon \o/
14:01 on 20 June, 2014
What was the Greek score last night?
__________________________________________________________________________
They didn’t, and neither did Japan.
HH
Anyone remember ‘Naked Video’ on BBC Scotland?
Quite a few lol moments.
HH!!
MOONBEAMS WET DREAMS 1250
No-one need fear a backlash from me if the independence vote goes against my personal opinion.
And certainly not to the extent which you suggest.
I have no say in it. Any comments I make,I try to balance with the opposite view.
It would be nice if people were voting based on political information which they knew they could trust to be correct.
But they won’t be. Both sides are lying,playing,spinning.
Vote however you like. Your call. Not mine.
All this BBC chat and no League of Gentlemen?
PamDouve CSC
Haw, rocket man!
This is a local blog, for local people!
We’ll have no trouble heeeeeah!
TALLYBHOY
You can get all of them,and all of RAB C NESBITT,on Youtube.
I was watching an early RAB C the other day,and thought….
Does Brett Anderson sound like Jamesie Cotter?
BMCUWP
My post was facetious based on ATNIFA’s suggestion that if Independence is won killing and murdering of the English will be the stable sport of Scotland.
I ken yer an eejit but FFS you took that the wrang wae yae trumpet. :)
MWD says AYE
Beatbhoy
they did actually watch the game right through before they went on to YouTube.
Neither of them sulked or looked even a wee bit sad. I had to get drunk after Scotland drew with Russia in 82….mind you I was a good deal of the way there by half time