When I researched yesterday’s article (yes, research does happen sometimes) I was far from encouraged. Udinese had an impeccable home record and Snr Di Natale is one of Europe’s irresistible strikers at the moment.
We didn’t manage to resist Di Natale but he will remember Fraser Forster for a few years. We have been fortunate to see a few great goalkeeping performances in Europe in the last decade but last night Fraser was second perhaps only to David Marshall that night in Barcelona. That last minute penalty save against Hearts on Saturday has moved the player onto a new platform.
Udinese had a good 20 minute spell when they looked every inch the team joint top of the Italian league but they were on the rack in the closing stages of the game. Cha DuRi has had an eventful Europa League on the road this season. He was a bit unfortunate at the Udinese goal but completely out of luck when he twisted his body mid-air to volley off the post.
Watching Georgios Samaras last night was a lesson in how complex a game football can be. This is a player who could not hold down a place in the SPL last season, yet playing in a different position he had top-flight defenders throwing themselves at him in order to inhibit progress.
There is still work to be done, but the return of three first choice defenders will enhance the team considerably. The most pleasing thing about last night came after the game; Fraser Forster’s focus was immediately on St Johnstone. It’s all about Perth now.
Issue 5 of CQN Magazine will be out soon. Hard copies will be available direct, at a considerably reduced cost from our current Magcloud arrangement and with a fast delivery turnaround. Details soon.
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We’d better win on Sunday…
And I expect the support will be under the fierce scrutiny of the lidless eye of Sauron.
Let’s not give them any tap-ins.
James Forrest is Lennon…
Yeah so an excellent performance last night – and it was excellent in every way – has been utterly cast aside by the mindless, moronic actions of a bunch of self-indulgent wannabee revolutionaries who think their view, their warped view, of our club is an accurate representation of what we are about.
Nice to see you’re taking a balanced, objective view of things. Firstly, I don’t believe that the banner holders attributed their views to anyone other than themselves. What’s the problem with that? Or is it the thought crime you find irksome? That someone could hold a view contrary to your own? As I say, the banner was self expression, and not rolled out into a wider “Celtic fans say…”
Note to the yahoos – you ain’t Celtic. You speak for no-one but yourselves.
And note to James Forrest – the banner holders didn’t claim to speak for anyone. This is a position you choose to place them in rather than an accurate representation. That your opinion is different? Fine. But don’t distort the facts and don’t simply damn people for having the temerity to hold a view counter to yours. You are taking the banner as a personal insult. Why? Are people not entitled to express their view?
This isn’t about our enemies in Scotland coming after us, and this Family needing to oppose that. This is about a small group of supporters trying to pick a fight – a fight, by the way, we cannot win – with people who at present are NOT our enemies. This is about tarnishing, about urinating on, a reputation we have worked hard, damned hard, to cultivate and it has taken us years.
That is, frankly, a lot of nonsense. What part of the banner tarnishes our reputation? The swear word? Because if that’s the case then our reputation is tarnished every single week, sometimes in multiples by our fellow supporters. If it’s not the swear word, then what? Is being a member of the Celtic “family” conditional on supporting UEFA? We are Celtic (and UEFA) supporters, faithful through and through? Why would you side with UEFA? And why would criticising UEFA constitute the “yahoo” tag you give people?
Bottom line – if UEFA seriously think that they have the right to clamp down on free speech to the extent that all criticism of them is verboten then they have serious, serious problems by way of ideology.
UEFA are not our enemies. They took on Rangers when the SFA had no intention of doing so. Are some of their rules contradictory, like not holding clubs responsible for what happens outside the ground? Of course. To hammer clubs for the behaviour of a few nutters inside the ground whilst they turn the proverbial blind eye and deaf ear to a riot is a piece of nonsense, but they at least have gone boldly where the SFA did not want to go, and made some EFFORT.
In your opinion they are not our enemies. People with a different opinion however are not “yahoos”. Personally I blame the Celtic board for not fighting against such a perverse judgment, for not protecting our reputation and for not standing up for free expression, but that’s a different story. If you really believe that UEFA are in the right, fair enough, but don’t dismiss and condescend others because you don’t have the capacity to empathise or understand that people being people, we all have opinions.
I say again, we have no enemies at UEFA. Last night’s showpiece in Italy was as a result of a ruling – a major ruling – in our favour, and that appears to have escaped the notice of some of our so-called fans.
And so what? People shouldn’t be free to have opinions unless pre-approved for acceptability by yourself? You seriously need to accept that other people might have different opinions. Stop being so closed minded and dogmatic.
Let me remind them, we in the Celtic Family have a collective word for people who behave in a way which is mindless, arrogant, confrontational and destructive. We call them huns.
You have just “damaged” the reputation of our club. Don’t you know that the “H” word is an illicit one? Nil by mouth and the police judge it sectarian. Who is worse here? You for using clearly sectarian and illicit language or the people who chose to express their opinion about UEFA? You can’t have it both ways. You stand condemned by your own words and tyranny.
Last night their actions damaged our club. The people responsible for it should be hunted down and removed from our fan base. Their actions were not reckless, as some have said, or about freedom of speech or any of that stuff. They have a clear agenda, and if I did not know better (I do, I am not indulging in whatabouterry) I would say some of the people steering them are doing so deliberately to put our club in harms way. Conspiracy theorists of the world unite.
And today your actions damage our club. We don’t need supporters using sectarian and discriminatory language! I jest on this point – I don’t believe it’s sectarian, nor do I believe you damage our club, but by your own words you stand condemned. Double standards? Who’d have thunk it? ;)
What we saw last night is not about standing up for yourselves in light of attacks from people who wish us ill. It was pure self indulgent nonsense, utterly without merit, completely negative, shocking destructive and brought no credit to anyone involved.
And your use of illicit, sectarian and discriminatory language?
The board had my contempt earlier this week with their shocking decision not to clarify the situation with our fans singing. On this one they have my full support. These people went out of their way last night to provoke the next phase of this, and if the people running Celtic want to clean house and be rid of the lot of them, any sympathy they had from me has gone.
….and I’m sure they’ll be gutted you no longer have sympathy for them. Whoever “they” may be… Do you know who they are? Who they represent? I doubt it. I imagine you’ll guess, but that’s what it is. You reinforce your own prejudices by expanding the lack of knowledge with fantasy. And then spout it on here as fact. In the absence of fact, make stuff up and have your preordained scapegoat at the ready. And remember to fill cyberspace with your venom so others can be led.
We don’t need the press to manufacture consent against fellow Celtic fans when we have some of worst, most pious, hypocritical nonsense you’ll ever read actually penned by followers of the same club. I’m not necessarily talking about you here, but there are definite shades of hypocrisy. You cast around the “hun” word because you think it’s fair to use, in spite of diktats against it by the media, nil by mouth and the police, but should someone else dare offend your idea of what’s right? They’re an embarrassment, “yahoos”, etc etc etc… Poor show James, poor show.
Appalling behaviour by a minority who now seem determined to cause us problems.
Illicit, sectarian language should always be condemned, right? So….. the “hun” word James. The floor is yours.
Do I agree with the banner? Not really. In fact, just not. I don’t believe in it. If however UEFA tell us that they should be exempt of any critique then I shall certainly be against them. Do I think swear words are the smart way to go about things? Not at all. I dislike swearing, especially because at football matches there are often children in earshot, so I can’t possibly approve of it. I can however say that I believe those people have a right to express their opinion. Just as you have. And I believe you and them should be free to make those points in the absence of insult. By all means take the point to task, but to launch an all out attack whilst using proscribed language? It’s laughable.
/p
Beamishmypint.
It achieved the communication of a valid point to uefa that would have been ignored in any other medium. I agree with the message that was sent maybe not with how it was delivered.
Just catching up on the posts since last night.
Getting in through the back door only due to Sion being disqualified. Sorry, but total cr4p. I thought that we played badly against Sion but were the better team, and the players on their side that made the difference were the ones that shouldn’t have been playing. If we played them right now we would beat them home and away.
The first half miss by Hooper from Sammi’s pass shows you the difference between a 2M and 20M striker or between Hoops and Henrik. We are lacking the quality to convert the half-chance that makes the difference in Europe. Mind you, D Natalie (worth how much?) failed to convert a greater number of clearer chances. Mainly thanks to …
… Forster, who is growing into the jersey. Can we keep him on loan until 2014 and then get him on freedom of contract?
I think Broony’s passing shows that sides like Udinese are above his ability level. But boy do we need his like in the SPL.
Cha started the season as #1 right back. I’m sure I read a quote from @OfficialNeil as to that effect. Now I’d have him behind Matthews with Lustig possibly pushing further down the list.
There was quite a bit of space out at the LB position that Udinese discovered in the 2nd half. SPL teams haven’t been good enough to spot it, but fortunately we weren’t really punished. I think Ledley is better than Charlie out there, Matthews better than Ledley and Izzy better than all of them. It will be good to see him back.
Finally; flares are fireworks and have no place in a crowded stadium. IMO it should have been the responsibility of the stadium stewards to remove them but we’ll probably get fined. As for the banner, if UEFA decide to penalise us then they are as childish as those that displayed it.
I really like wee James Forrest, but I’m getting a bit irritated at the way he does this
–o–
every time someone (fairly or unfairly) tackles him.
Hauns doon wee man!
James Forrest.
You don’t care about Celtic.
If you did you would have been at the game lending your support to the team.
Sannabhoy
You are welcome!
The difference between those who unfurled the banner and those who are condemning them… those who unfurled the banner paid into the game.They might well be season ticket holders too.God save us from these false fans.
The Token Tim:
If you asked me a question I missed it, if you ask it again I’ll try to answer.
Watched last night’s game on ESPN. If I was looking at players to buy then Forster, Wanyama, Ki, Forrest and Hooper would interest me! Don’t get to many live games, Dublin Tournie, Motherwell away and aim be in Glasgow for the home game against Kilmarnock on the 24th. Otherwise tele and PC.
Lucky I’m only a fan and we all see things differently. As a teenager in the 60’s I was always intrigued by the debates/arguments on the Supporters Bus on the way home to from Parkheid as to who played well and who was rubbish. Even in King Kenny’s days he was often criticised. My hero. Plus ca change!
Forecast for Sunday 4-0 win for the Bhoys.
The Smallest CSC
Finally; flares are fireworks and have no place in a crowded stadium. IMO it should have been the responsibility of the stadium stewards to remove them but we’ll probably get fined. As for the banner, if UEFA decide to penalise us then they are as childish as those that displayed it.
What crowded stadium are you talking about?
ernie lynch says:
16 December, 2011 at 14:48
I think about 600 travelled. Are they the only ones that care about Celtic?
ernie lynch:
That’s right. Because I’m not financially able to go to Italy or buy a season ticket I don’t care about Celtic.
Correct. You’ve got me. All this energy I expend on this site and elsewhere, what I really need is a hobby, like golf, or tennis, or something.
The Honest Mistake says:
16 December, 2011 at 14:24
The club should first engage with the supporters and find out why so many people are frustrated at their perceived lack of action in defence of the supporters at the hands of hostile police, politicians and media.
————————
Any suggestions for how that can be done where part of the culture is that no one supporter has any authority to speak on behalf of any other?
Who do Celtic talk to? What authority does each group have other than to represent their own members?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of using better communication to better inform all parties of the constraints each are bound by and seek to agree on common goals but the CAPACITY to do so simply does not exist. There are probably a lot more Celtic supporters not members of the CSA/CST/GB or any other known groups than there are members of such groups.
How do they get an equal say?
Joining a group is one way, but that only accentuates the divide lines between those groups which will always have their own agendas and in any case chances are that total non members will exceed total members.
As long as the support is divided in structural terms so too will be opinions.
oglach UFB says:
16 December, 2011 at 14:43
why bother telling me not to respond to you if i’m not going to understand. if i really dont understand anything it wouldnt make sense to me anyway.
i think it’s best if i ignore you and carry on responding to your posts. you can respond to mine as well, as long as you dont talk about the ira.
Any injuries from last night to any of our heroes?
A poster earlier asked “are we required to be respectful to all forms of authority or just UEFA?”
Should we not be respectful to everybody? Except the huns obviously!
We have a support that is respected and welcomed throughout the world. If a section of our “support” continue to drag our name through the mud, that will all be lost!
Celtic40me.
Halo effect is a lot better than target effect. Who said anything about the green brigade? With prejudices you’ll get nothing out of the discussion.
Your view seems to be you and people like you= good for Celtic. Green brigade= bad for Celtic.
Is that a fair summation ?
James Forrest
Asserting that someone isn’t a Celtic supporter because they have a different opinion to you is stupid, isn’t it?
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/david-edgar/#more-1852
Phil´s lastest article has well known bigot David Edgar working at Caley Uni. Surely an institution that aims to attract students would have stayed way clear of someone with his…….views.
p8ddy.
Good post.
Telling Celtic fans they aren’t Celtic is a strange point when you are just a single Celtic fan yourself.
Greenjedi
Required to be.
Not should we be.
Not, wouldn’t it be nice if.
Required to be.
Are all SNP supporters required to be authoritarian?
p&ddy:
Good to see you back, and back to slamming me! Excellent fella.
Nothing you say I would disagree with. Believe that? I agree with almost every word. Because you’ve chosen to focus on the banner, as if I am accusing the guys of breaking the rules. If you read my last, lengthy, post you’ll know that my anger over the banner is in that it was then followed up by an act which DOES violate UEFA rules, and has almost certainly contributed to a change in attitude towards us.
Your view that the people spoke only for themselves is naive, and not like you at all. The world press today is not making the distinction. The man-on-the-street will not make the distinction. UEFA themselves will not make the distinction.
For the record, I could not care less what the press writes and even less than that for the ignorant, uneducated views of said man-in-the-street if he hasn’t bothered to even think beyond what he hears in the media … but UEFA’s view does matter, and to mock them and taunt them in the week they have found us guilty of breaking their rules, and then follow it up by breaking another is an act of arrogance which borders on insanity.
If there was some way to seperate the consequences to the individual from the consequences to our club, believe me I would support it and then confront the issue of whether the consequences were deserved. But this situation is akin to someone hijacking an airplane and the authorities responding by jailing everyone on board. If they can’t see past their own selfishness then yes, I do think they need to be removed.
Auldheid.
You know my views on this matter as we have conversed many a night on this board about it. The club went in the correct direction with the roadshows. Since then the communication has been through released statements. Is this not dictation?
They need to listen to the fans here as the fans are under attack and I for one am not happy at the clubs response or lack of it.
The honest mistake
“You obviously don’t understand the situation. They interpreted one of UEFA’s rules differently from UEFA. They never hid that they were playing the banned players. They were challenging UEFA’s authority. Sheeesh! ”
OK, so as far as you are concerned, as they were open about their blatant disregard for the Ruling Bodies rules, that makes it ok then eh????
“We dont care about your rules, we are doing what we want. GIRUY!”
Ahh so obviously no cheating there then?
Wonder if the huns interpretation of HMRCs rules on paying taxes on EBT’s is felt the same way by you???
HAIL! HAIL!
Token
Auld Neil Lennon heid:
I spoke with a few Celtic Supporters on the phone this evening. Some of them have recently written to Celtic and none, not one, has ever received a repy. I have written to Celtic. I have never received a reply. Okay they will answer my e-mails, but I like to be old school and actually put my thoughts down on paper with ink.
Every one of those I spoke to was pee’d off with what Celtic did regards the UEFA fine. Only one is going to renew his season ticket next year. I’m not that one. And the average age of those I was speaking to, around 50/51.
I wish Celtic would answer letters, that is what big companies of worth do.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/mcneill.jpg/
What happened to these friendly chappies?
James, thanks for the kind words and the full response.
In the same non confrontational spirit I must reiterate my view on your reaction being over the top mate.
In your first post of this thread you said:
“The board had my contempt earlier this week with their shocking decision not to clarify the situation with our fans singing. On this one they have my full support. These people went out of their way last night to provoke the next phase of this, and if the people running Celtic want to clean house and be rid of the lot of them, any sympathy they had from me has gone.”
That is what got me typing. It is firstly a paradoxical take. The protest was the fans take up where the Board failed you. The nature of it was misguided and wrong, I agree but by by your own sense of being failed, surely theoretically justified. Secondly to then back up the Board and look to hound them out is extreme.
In your latest response to me you’ve said:
“We cannot afford for this Family to go into the fights we face in the coming year as anything but united. Is it too much to ask that these guys respect their fellow supporters, respect the views of the club and desist from getting us into fights we don’t need?”
James, there is no great leap of logic here to suggest that because you disagree with the actions of the few last night, and for perfectly valid reasons I should add, that you want them banned, and we move forward ‘united’?
Who’s next on the banned list James? Can’t you see the slippery slope you’re treading? There’s too many questions with this route. Who decides who can and can’t, is or isn’t a Celtic supporter. You seem prepared to put yourself forward.
Thomthethim also chipped in about the fear of the generation of the banner holders being the one to lose the Celtic ethos. That can just as easily be asked of Thom’s or mine or yours, because when I was 17, attending Wolfetones concerts and stoating home blootered asking my black and tan neighbours to come out and fight me like a man, thank God no one barred me from Paradise. (and thank God none of them come out or I’d have got a tanking). It might not have been in stadium but in those days the Wolfetones were allowed in to chant ooh ahh up the ra on the park and up the tunnel!!
The Celtic ethos is passed from one generation to the next. Banning orders won’t preserve it. Maybe we will need the ‘hard work’ you mentioned but I don’t get your shock at the timing of the banner. ‘In the very week’ as you put it was the only time that the protest would ever have been timely. It was a poor one and coupled with a flare was a mistake, but it has the Board squirming to their new friends in the media. Your anger may need a bit of channeling, in my most modest opinion.
Hail Hail, I’m away to look for a new iron for the wife’s Christmas, avoiding the black and tan neighbours.
I love the guys who unfurled the banner but I think it was a stupid thing to do. T’was bad tactics and didn’t help the cause. We are under attack as a Club and as a support Group. We need to box clever and not fall out amongst ourselves we can turn this whole campaign to our advantage and come back stronger then ever. There was a time in Ireland when singing or writing any type of patriotic song was punishable by imprisonment or death. Our bards defeated this by referring to Ireland as a woman in song and some of our greatest ballads aka Roisin Dubh were written around that time. The people knew what they were singing about and their defiance only grew as a result. There are great ballads out there with a rousing chorus that would be ideal as a Football Anthem. May I suggest 2 “God Save Ireland” and “The Foggy Dew”. Wouldn’t it be something else if the whole of Celtic Park blasted out God Save Ireland as a roar of defiance. If in time they banned that we could just belt out another one and another one again. For anyone who doesn’t know the chorus it goes
“God Save Ireland, said the heroes
God Save Ireland said they all,
Whether on the scaffold high
Or on battlefield we die,
Oh What matter
When for Ireland dear we fall”
James Forrest
I also admire the way you can play 90 minutes in Italy and still find time to write so much on CQN. You’re a great link between fans and dressing room. But tell Gary ‘p8ddy’ Hooper to tone down the bold, eh?
BlantyreKev – Hail Hail to the Kano Foundation says:
Mate, great response again fella.
My concern is that this is only the start. The authorities will not act by punishing a group of guys for their view. They will punish Celtic itself. They will punish guys like you, whether you agree with what the banners say, or the songs say, or not. They will punish the guys who go every week – and yes, the guys who don’t or can’t but who love Celtic nonetheless.
Is it too much to ask that people put the love of Celtic before other considerations?
Is it right that when the majority of us would rather focus on supporting the team and hunting down our enemies that others are seeking to find fresh people to fight with and offend?
I say again – the issue was NOT the banner. The day we get in trouble for telling authority where to go is the day when football itself dies. The madness was to attack UEFA and THEN violate UEFA rules by throwing flares. That was just insane. The banner itself was also misplaced. We know full well UEFA got the nod from people inside Celtic and that they could not ignore a complaint from the police, especially not when it was not exactly being aggressively contested.
It opens up a whole new avenue of confrontation. I am worried – and with good cause, I think – about what the next phase of this is. When, inevitably, the air at Perth reverberates to Read the Roll of Honour and other such songs, what good will that do Celtic? If people are arrested I will be back here demanding to know why this happened, what law they broke, what freedoms are being denied them … but I will also be deeply saddened that they felt the need to do it in the first place.
Those might seem like mutually exclusive propositions, but they’re not. All of this is un-necessary.
We should have brought on Mo (the bounce) Bangura
The only player even ole YouTube can’t make look good.
Ok Paul 67 ……….Whats the scoop on the wee tax case……thought this was due up today ???????
Ernie
Why are you so obsessed by the SNP?
UEFA Fine us – Blame the SNP
The SFA go against us – Blame the SNP
Somebody puts up a F*** UEFA Banner – Blame the SNP
Somebody sets off a flare – Blame the SNP
Scotland was anti IRISH Catholic 80 years ago – Blame the SNP
The media in Scotland hate us – Blame the SNP
Ernies a British Loyalist – Blame the SNP
Its snowing – Blame the SNP
The snow is melting and its slushy outside – Blame the SNP
Somebody disagrees with you – Blame the SNP
etc etc etc
The Token Tim – HAIL! HAIL! To Kano 1000 16 December, 2011 at 15:10
1. Rangers weren’t open about their financial policy.
2. They haven’t been punished for their cheating.
3. They had no intention of using the situation to test the authority of hmrc.
Two very different scenarios.
I laugh at the nuggets on here who seem to be permanently unemployed and who think they speak on behalf of the morality of all Celtic fans.
A banner with F*** UEFA, so what.
I actually spend quite a few quid on supporting Celtic, I don’t care about the odd banner.
F*** The Polis, F*** Eddie Smith and the White horse he rode in on, F*** The SNP, F*** The lot of them.
Your average Celtic fan is only interested in one thing after the last 3 years.
Humping the hun’s to the League Title.
Hail! Hail! as those of us who put our time and money into Celtic like to say.
Grrenjedi
Your dedication to the party is odd.
Are you on a promise from Christine Grahame or something?
There are times when I hate coming onto this blog, when the insults and recriminations are flying about.
Today isn’t one of them. Good, informed debate by Celtic men.
Cannae beat it as the old fella would say (between cans).