I spoke to Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, a man who wears his Republican heritage on his sleeve, about the hostile reaction to his comments on modernising the Celtic songbook a few months back. Phil found himself to be an easy target for conspiracy theorists who turned on him for issuing a request to an end of political chanting. I’m sure Neil Lennon will not find anything like the same reaction to his comments in the Sun today, but it remains to be seen if anyone listens.
Neil said, “It’s important that we put a general message out that these chants have no place around our club. To be honest, we are better than that as a club and we always have been, we just don’t need it.
“We are and always have been a club open to all and we do not have issues around sectarianism. We have our own values and traditions but they do not include these chants. We don’t want them at matches and they must stop.”
This is not the first time Neil has given the same message this year. After his earlier comments I actually heard, “Who is Neil Lennon to tell me what I can and can’t sing? I’ve been going to Celtic Park a lot longer than he has.”
We are in a classic social paradox. The reputational damage of political singing is not felt by those who sing, and the risk of personal consequences arising for any individual singer is probably around 1%. And let’s be honest here, for all the supportive flags, banners and “I’m Neil Lennon” proclamations, is Neil respected enough to be listened to, or has he become a modern Che Guevara-poster boy?
Whatever you think of Neil, or his rights to say what you can or cannot sing, he has the best interests of our club in mind whenever he speaks on this subject.
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From Lennon PC:
Bangura may need op. Not responding well to treatment.
Ledley back tomorrow. Mulgrew and loovens still out.
Celtic won’t pay fee S Brown’s agent is demanding.
Neil Lennon on Zenden: “we couldn’t agree terms. If I wanted to push the boat out I’m sure the club would have backed me”
bournesouprecipe says:
18 November, 2011 at 09:38
Made me smile this monring. Thanks for that.
A good win tomorrow would further enhance my mood after this omni-shambles of a week.
Árd Macha
See if it works this time, basically it states the removal of the term ‘hatred of’ from the bill and the insertion of ‘malice and ill will’ you can come to your own conclusions as to why…
New amendments to Bills lodged on 17 November 2011
Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill – Stage 2
Section 1
Patrick Harvie
22 In section 1, page 1, line 11, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
23 In section 1, page 1, line 16, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
24 In section 1, page 1, line 19, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
25 In section 1, page 1, line 23, leave out and insert
Section 4
Patrick Harvie
26 In section 4, page 3, line 23, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
27 In section 4, page 3, line 38, leave out from to end of line and insert
Section 5
Patrick Harvie
28 In section 5, page 4, line 11, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
29 In section 5, page 4, line 13, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
30 In section 5, page 4, leave out lines 14 and 15
Patrick Harvie
31 In section 5, page 4, line 15, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
32 In section 5, page 4, line 29, after insert
Patrick Harvie
33 In section 5, page 4, line 29, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
34 In section 5, page 4, line 29, at end insert—
Patrick Harvie
34A As an amendment to amendment 34, line 2, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
34B As an amendment to amendment 34, line 5, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
35 In section 5, page 4, line 31, at end insert—
After section 5
Patrick Harvie
11A As an amendment to amendment 11, line 3, leave out and insert
Section 6
Patrick Harvie
36 In section 6, page 4, line 40, at end insert—
Patrick Harvie
37 In section 6, page 5, line 3, leave out and insert
Patrick Harvie
38 In section 6, page 5, line 9, at end insert—
Patrick Harvie
39 In section 6, page 5, line 12, after insert
Cha also out.
The reporting on the new sectarian statistics published today has begun.
——————–
RadioClydeNews
Sectarian offences in scotland increased by 10 per-cent last year to just under 700. A third of them directly related to football matches.
RadioClydeNews
More than half of all religious hate crimes took place in Glasgow, 15% were in Lanarkshire.
RadioClydeNews
There were 90 sectarian charges at football stadiums last year. 52% at Celtic Park 27% at Ibrox.
Someone asked the Radio Clyde newsfeed:
@RadioClydeNews How many of those charges came from the home end???
The reply:
@StephentheCelt The Government figures aren’t broken down to that level of detail
—————–
If two-thirds of offences are happening away from football, why are they breaking down the statistics into football stadiums?
The stat about Celtic Park is interesting considering double the amount of Rangers fans hold football banning orders in comparison to Celtic fans.
Where’s the bill ushering in new laws to fight the two thirds of sectarian offences away from football?
Who were the targets in the sectarian statistics published?
Interesting times.
. bournesouprecipe 18 November, 2011 at 09:55 TPD
I would have snapped him but people might have thought I was dodgy.
I nearly got lynched in Pirt Dundas Rd when I tried to take a shot of a female (I think) Orc with a brand new top which said on the back, “This Granny takes no sh*t”
I’ve been careful since that incident.
Haha
I seen an old lady??about70.
With jet black hair in George Sq awhile back, wearing the full hun tracksuit with..
THIS GRANNY KICKS ASS
Printed on the back.
Huns dont you just love them.
Here, just have the link. HH
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/BusinessBulletin/44171.aspx
celtic40me at 10:33
Sadly some do. The only player recently I can say that was more a board than manager signing would have been Robbie Keane and I don’t think too many were dissapointed about that one.
Compare to the manager (at the time) signing of Marc Antoine Fortuné and maybe the board should get involved more often. :-)
Mort
(Worms, can, opened)
So..
Is it FTSFA, FTSFA, FTSFA……
or
FTSNP, FTSNP, FTSNP ??
The latter would my choice…..
p8ddy says:
17 November, 2011 at 23:07
I have to say that was a fantastic post mate, cant really disagree with any of it. good to have you back.
A SON OF DAN 1050
Thanks for the effort,bud. The end result-once I stopped laughing-seems to make it more subjective than ever.
And as I said yesterday,subjectivity has no place in law.
Mort 10.52 Somone posted yesterday that Celtic have over 70 signed players on there pay roll that really surprised me.Now I dont know who sanctions our signings but we must be paying out a fortune on salaries to many players who will never feature regularly in the first team before we sign anyone else it would be a wise move to trim the number of players drasticaly.H.H.
VP- bournesouprecipe says:
18 November, 2011 at 09:38
Good Morning CQN
Hope Street, Glasgow City Centre 9.38 am
* Man wearing full tracksuit, and regular shoes alert *
The full sectarian statistics can be found here:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/11/17154035/3
60% occur linked to alcohol
58% of the offences relate to abuse of roman catholicism
66% occur away from a football context with only 12% happening with football stadiums
Ard Macha
It’s been a long hard week, we need a Celtic weekend.
NLSTB
Ha – are they not all related.
Bada Bing. I thought I was well dressed for my visit to the big City was the colour wrong ? ;- ) H.H.
!!Bada Bing!! says:
18 November, 2011 at 10:57
You bassa…..you know I am a dapper Dhan.
Matthews presumably at RB tomorrow, then.
Who to play at LB if Mulgrew is injured and El Kaddouri is seemingly out of the manager’s plans?
Ledley is the only available member of the 1st team who can play at LB, which means Ki will almost certainly play, unless Lenny makes the mistake (imo) of going 4-4-2.
Remember Amoruso’s Aggressive Prayer
BADA BING 1057
You still wearing your “Cloak of Invisibility”,or are your wings “like a shield of steel”?
Think you may soon find out………..
Craiginho
Thanks for clarifying the legalities there. From what you say, the PF or the polis would have no grounds for pushing for the old aggravated Breach of the Peace under Section 74, though, right?
Like you, I hope it’s all about the football and that Celtic win 4-0.
Hope all is well with you.
VP-A man in a track suit attacked me……
Kaiserchiefscsc
Very difficult to think about formations when there’s a drunken cameraman filming cleavages/spinning roulette wheels.
Bring back the Harry Potter ad.
VP- It might have been- Joe Filippis Haircut says:
18 November, 2011 at 11:00 ?
Mountain_Bhoy is Neil Lennon 10.54
Thanks for bringing that to my attention P8ddy is always worth reading.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS says:
Am i familiar with your work?
paranoidcsc
The world is you Coister – It Aint Half Hot Mum
By Mark Hateley on Nov 18, 11 07:25 AM in rangers
It’s important clubs leave no stone unturned in attempts to unearth footballing talent and exploit commercial markets – which is why Rangers and their manager Ally McCoist are right to see what India and other countries have to offer.
I remember going to Senegal every mid-season with Monaco more than 20 years ago and what I saw then was plenty of raw talent crying out to be nurtured and guided in the right direction.
Of course, my manager there Arsene Wenger wasted no time in getting into that particular market. He signed Liberian striker George Weah and many other successful African players who starred for Monaco during that era.
Africa has since developed into one of the fertile breeding grounds for talent that has been pretty much sewn up by French clubs who have a strong connection with the continent.
But is India the Africa of 30 years ago in terms of development? Having studied this in depth for years I can safely say that time must be coming. If it happened with Africa then who is to dispute me that it can’t happen now in India with the right support and the right coaching?
The Indian market and the Far East, as far as a lot of people are concerned, are untapped resources.
It’s all about going out there and exploring different avenues, especially for clubs such as Rangers and Celtic. The South American market, the Middle East, India – the world is your oyster. We cant keep relying on just the Northern Irish market that´s just plain silly. The right type of lads but the market is far too small.
But you need to give it time, money and expertise. It’s not about whether Rangers can make the Indian market work for them it´s whether the Indian market can work for Rangers. They’re certainly trying to make it work off the park with the ground breaking news and a world first that a Hindi Twitter commentary will be offered on tomorrow’s game against St Johnstone. How many millions of Indian Rangers fans will follow is open to speculation.
Fans, though, are more interested in what happens on the park.
Honduran Emilio Izaguirre at Celtic is proof there are gems out there. Whether Awul Dasfilshabeda and Nowaynayda Zheet, due at Murray Park for a trial spell, will be a success remains to be seen.
My gut feeling is this venture is unlikely to reap instantaneous immediate dividends, although Rangers could eventually break the ice in India, Taiwan possibly even North Korea. It could be a longer-term project. And if you could get into what is a massive country with a network of scouts and coaches then you might just see the benefits years down the line. So there is no reason to be despondent if Rangers have to replace the likes of Alan Mc Gregor and Nickia Jelavic with up and coming stars like Makollig Jezvahted and Levdaroum DeBahzted.
If we’re talking about the here and now and whether these two Indian trialists can make an impact at Rangers then I can’t answer that just now. And you can’t take them just for what they might be worth commercially regardless of how good they are at helping with the cleaning and domestic chores.
By all means bring players over and have a look but if they don’t make the squad stronger then you move on. The players go back and you start again. Alistair will run the rule over everyone – but the same rules must apply to them as applies to Sone Aluko.
If Aluko has the chance of making the squad stronger then he has the chance of a contract – the same must go for the Indian duo. India has a huge population – 1.2 billion people – and as yet we’ve yet to see any player from there make it big. Alistair can reverse that trend and India will surely be thankful for this intervention.
Top European clubs are very thorough and have scouts all over the planet. The reports that have come back on the Indian market haven’t been too positive. It’s about trying to get in there to reach the younger kids at a stage where they can be developed further. I think the big clubs would have tried to investigate the Indian market and look at the standard of football and decided not to bother but Alistair sees something there that can be exploited and I tend to agree with him.
The only worry for me would be Alistair giving up too much of his time and resource to this project and having his head turned and becoming an Indian holy man or high priest he is that charismatic. Rangers need him here in Glasgow in the front line trenches.
But if you look hard enough and deep enough sometimes you unearth those gems. Out of such a huge population, there must be millions who have a real interest in Rangers Football club.
Cricket is and probably always will be the No.1 sport in the country – but football is second and I know from my translation work with Arabic-language news network Al Jazeera and speaking to other people that there are diehard Rangers fans out there.
If you can get out and explore, possibly with an air conditioned car who knows what you can unearth? Until we see results that question mark will always be there. We need to see an Indian come through and establish himself in a top league.
I’ve spoken many times at the UK Asian Final dinner about the lack of Asians who have come through due to their laziness and religous practices interfering with training. A new attitude would need to be instilled in them but with a massive cricketing culture it’s down to the backing of parents to try to get them into football.
Let’s be clear – if Rangers plan on getting into India there’s going to be a lot of hard work to establish any sort of network. It will need investment of both time and money.
The UK Asian Final is always a big occasion and you can see some talent there. But is that talent good enough to break through into professional football? The cross breed players are undoubtedly better and that has to be a worry.
Football is certainly growing throughout the world. In the Arab Emirate of Qatar, in the Middle East, they are bringing in European players and European coaches to help develop the homegrown players.
Qatar, of course, will stage the World Cup in 2022. And off the park Al Jazeera have already invested heavily in world football and are associated with Malaga and PSG – so it’s all about the promotion of football.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they took live coverage of the Premiership from Sky when it’s up for grabs again, such is their investment in football. Just imagine if the Indian sub continent were to take the Scottish Premier League coverage too, that could possibly save our game.
Everyone is watching and the interest is spreading to other countries such as India.
Can Rangers reap the benefits by the Januray transfer window ? We´ll just have to wait and see what Santa might belatedly bring us for Christmas.
Aberdeen say they have still had no contact from Rangers about Sone Aluko.
Aluko, who has been training with Rangers with a view to signing, left the Dons in the hope of finding a club closer to his family in England.
The Pittodrie club feel that they are due a six-figure sum in compensation because of the player’s age, should he sign for the Ibrox club.
A mystical club source said: “We’ve not heard from Rangers or from Sone, but we are fairly confident of our case.”
The case could be settled before a tribunal if the clubs cannot agree a fee, but Aberdeen are understood to be determined to pursue the matter.
“Our fans would never forgive us if we let Rangers walk all over us on this,” added the mystical source
So what do the sectarian stats tell us? Well, there are a couple of large caveats. Firstly, these figures relate to the number of people charged, not the numbers who may have committed an offence. And secondly everything is taken from police reports.
A third of charges are related to football, so two thirds were not. That would suggest to any reasonable person that the problem is a societal one and not a football one.
Only 5% of charges came at marches. That would suggest that marchers are relatively well behaved. Or that policing is very different.
There were 47 charges at Celtic Park and 24 at Ibrox. Note that the affiliation of those charged, home or away, is not known. But the 2:1 ratio would again suggest differences in behaviour or policing.
58% of charges were for offences against Roman Catholics whereas 37% were against Protestants. Given the relative numbers in society of the religious groups (however that is defined) it is clear that Roman Catholics are much more likely to be victims of sectarianism.
The largest single group of victims was the police. The explanation suggested is that these offences came post arrest with angry culprits abusing their captors.
The most common charge was Breach, covering 73% of cases. This would tend to suggest that existing legislation is quite capable of being used to cover sectarian offences.
Of cases that have come to court, 85% have resulted in conviction. Again this would suggest that the law is working well at present.
Celtic First:
Section 74 would only come into play if the songs could be shown to target members of “religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation”. Rebel songs about the Irish struggle for freedom would not, as far as I am aware, be caught by that – even those that specifically reference the IRA.
Bizarrely, songs abusing the orange order (being a group with a perceived affiliation to Protestantism) could be caught by section 74. Obviously this would be ignoring the elephant in the room that the OO is a bigotted organisation whose members delight in the abuse and intimidation of Catholics.
Craiginho
Don’t-offend-the-offensive CSC
I’m fed up with this debate now. A crack team of cops will be in Inverness? For goodness sake!
A mountain is being made out of a molehill here. The real issues in this country take place outside stadiums. Wouldn’t police resources be better served tackling more serious ‘crime’ in the real world.
Even if fans are forced to behave like saints for 90 minutes at the weekends, how will that benefit the general population the rest of the time? Will it stop sectarianism, racism and other forms of criminality?
Mort, messi went off injured in that game, the game where xavi scored early. I remember him going and thinking it was a blessing for us
Sffs
.
I know this is the wrong time to ask……
But is having an Ingrowing toenail removed….. Painfully
Bigjoesilling in the operating theater
The stats are interesting.
Big Nan, do you know if there is any way of finding out the overlap between offences in which Protestants were the victims and those in which police officers were the victims?
I think it’s likely to be high. I’m not excusing it, but I think there is a qualitative difference between a reaction to, shall we say, over-enthusiastic attention from the police such as Section 111 witnessed after the Hibs game and abusing an ordinary person in the street.
Police officers, of course, also deserve to be able carry out their work without abuse, but the police behave as though they were always in the right and we know they are not.
I used to work with a character who, in the summer, would wear sandals, shorts, shirt and tie.
At least he didn’t wear socks right enough … that would have made him look like a right diddy…
My team for tomorrow if all fit:
Forster
Cha Rogne Dan Matthews
Wanyama Kayal
Sammi Paddy Ledley
Stokes
Not a game for JF or Ki im afraid
Craiginho says:
18 November, 2011 at 11:14
Celtic First:
Section 74 would only come into play if the songs could be shown to target members of “religious group, or of a social or cultural group with a perceived religious affiliation”. Rebel songs about the Irish struggle for freedom would not, as far as I am aware, be caught by that – even those that specifically reference the IRA.
Bizarrely, songs abusing the orange order (being a group with a perceived affiliation to Protestantism) could be caught by section 74. Obviously this would be ignoring the elephant in the room that the OO is a bigotted organisation whose members delight in the abuse and intimidation of Catholics.
Craiginho
Don’t-offend-the-offensive CSC
……………….
So if these laws where up up running in Alabama etc in the 50s & 60s you could done for saying the KKK members where bad people?
Gordon_J
Your break-down of the highlights from the stats is excellent. Well done.
I got all caught up in my ‘police as victims’ thing.