I’ve dipped in and out of the online debate on Scottish football this week. Can’t believe how much has been written on the new club/same club debate. To what end?
If the boot was on the other foot, and Celtic were liquidated in 2012, my relationship with post-liquidation Celtic would be my business only. I’d have no interest in anyone else’s view on the status of Celtic. I am emotionally invested in Celtic, so would be happy to accept any ‘same club’ theory as fact, and would have no motivation in listening to any contrary view on the matter.
Similarly, under the same scenario, there’s not a ‘Rangers’ fan alive who would consider a scenario, with an insolvency practitioner considering whether to let newly formed Cevco 5088 use the name Celtic for their football team, and conclude: “Yip, that’s the same Celtic that started back in 1888, whether they get permission to call themselves Celtic or not”.
It’s lunacy and an insult to all our intelligence to suggest otherwise. I’ve yet to meet a ‘Rangers’ fan who could tell me with a straight face that they would be calling Celtic the same club under if the situation was reversed. In fact, they have openly admitted they would be filling their boots on the subject.
The critical moment in Craig Whyte’s plan was achieved when Duff and Phelps were appointed as administrators, who would subsequently be in a position not to object to a newco calling itself Rangers, as Airdrieonians administrators and liquidators stopped Airdrie United using the name from 2002 until 2013. Declining to object at Companies House to the use of name was a arbitrary act by an administrator, but it was critical to Whyte’s plan to sell tens of thousands of season tickets.
‘Rangers’ fans, however, can believe what they like, no matter what Uefa wrote. All other football fans will point to this huge liquidation event and hear no more on the matter.
You’re not going to convince one ‘Rangers’ fan, who believes they support the same club that was liquidated, that they are wrong. Why should they deny themselves the history and traditions of their club (OK, I’m at it here, but you know what I mean). Don’t waste your time, you’ll convince no one who doesn’t want to be convinced.
Similarly, if Newco Rangers win 51 of the next 100 titles, and Aberdeen win the other 49, when they recall their remarkable achievements, some Motherwell fan will pop up and say, “Aye, but you let our club die”.
For a century or more, if they survive that long, ‘Rangers’ will pitch up to games and hear “Glasgow Rangers, you let your club die”, up and down the country. Just as you’re wasting your time trying to convince a ‘Rangers’ fan who doesn’t want to be convinced otherwise, the liquidation of Rangers in 2012 will forever be marked when a club with that name takes the field. Forever. It’s not going to stop. Anywhere.
All efforts to expunge this notion from the nation’s consciousness have only raised awareness of the detail of the liquidation.
You and I have been talking about Cognitive Dissonance for a decade. It’s the phenomenon when an individual is caused discomfort by an apparent fact which runs contrary to a cherished belief. It’s what you’re seeing and reading in the sameco coverage, and could have been written for these great times to be a Celtic supporter.
Enjoy the game; serve moderate helpings of Cognitive Dissonance.
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glassford03 on 9th September 2016 10:35 pm
Forrest first half. Roberts second. Rip them apart.
___________________________________________________________________________
That sounds fine to me, pace , pace and more pace tomorrow.
The Huns are dead. however dead clubs like Derry city, Parma, Torino, Fiorentina (and if you back far enough hibs and hearts) are allowed to reincarnate (be considered to be the same) as the old club.
We will never let them forget they are a zombie, but football (and that is world football not just scotland) will allow them to believe they are the same.
in fact the most contemporary zombie, Derry City, how long did it take Ireland to let Derry pretend to be the same club? two seasons. makes scotland look almost anti – Hun!!
tomorrow we play a new club, that the world believe is the same club, and I’ll be there to support my team – the hoops. I think we’ll give them a bit of a slap. if we make it sore enough maybe they’ll be screeming new club. would they want an 8-0 on the same history as oldco?
let’s dream for now and hail hail!
If Roberts is fit there’s no way Forrest will start ahead of him
QF
They died
End of.
no comparisons,
the only way Celtic could meet Rangers is at a seance.
As your resident Ross County suporter…
My whole heart is with youse tomorrow.
Only regret I’ve experienced today is realising that your game against us is now on a Wed night at end October…still, I’m sure I can extend hospitality to the travellers.
As soon as our bhoys run out on the park tomorrow the big lie will become fact. They won’t give a monkey’s if we win by a barrowload because their unbroken record and 54 titles will remain in tact. That’s all that concerns them. Tomorrow will be a black day in our illustrious history. Hh
Amazing when the STV came into the brazen and asked me a question and they spun it, reminded me of people on CQN , funny old world eh? No big deal, is what it is.
If Griffiths has missed two days training i can’t see the value in starting him, it’s not worth losing him for six weeks. Moussa has been chomping at the bit to get more starts so let’s see what the big man is made of. He has raw pace and power than can cause a lot of problems. If Griff is 80% stick him on the bench as a last resort, hopefully we won’t need him.
An annihilation will not be allowed to happen.
The Old Firm is too precious for that.
embdy glimpsed the program yet?
THE_HUDDLE on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 10:42 PM
If Roberts is fit there’s no way Forrest will start ahead of him
——
I think Forrest will start, he has scored in all 3 league matches so far. I would go with Roberts but i think Forrest will start.
Tonight I am and have become someone that I don’t recognise or like because although those bastards died they will be back in Celtic park in their zombie fashion giving it their bigotry, ignorant Scottish anti Catholic vile and our PLC will be counting the cash
My daughter will find out how much they hate us and will for the first time in her life realise what it’s like to be a Tim
I hate that I hate them
vfr800a8 on 9th September 2016 10:39 pm
As much as I like that version, nothing beats this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLoHPdKUvqc
Speyside Lhad 9:32 – Balvenie (Doublewood) is my favourite luxury dram, rather than my locale. I have visited approx 10 years ago and had a cracking day. I’m on the grape rather than the grain tonight. A 2014 Malbec Red (SW France in origin) and a mighty fine drop it is too.
Hoping Roy Croppie is around for some splendid photos of Celtic legends (anything involving Daniel Fergus, Henrik, and/or TB and I get dewy-eyed) and the odd golden chooon! :-)
Old Firm 2 – return of the hatefest
I would really like to see us switch the 2 wide men more often during the game to make the oppositions full backs think more.
Both Forest and Sinclair are capable of tormenting players with their pace, get them tired then get the trickery of Roberts on to bamboozle them.
MIB tomorrow my main worry.
QF
“tomorrow we play a new club, that the world believe is the same club, ”
Was there a survey? I must have missed that.
It took us until the 5th century AD to start doubting that the earth was flat. Most modern record purchasers think Justin Bieber id God’s gift to music.
None of these popularly held delusions is or was factually correct and neither is the same club belief. No matter how long you pine for the return of those good old days- they ain’t coming back in that bogeyman form.
There are a few of us who will leave empty seats tomorrow as a testament to that. Still want Celtic to win but not at all enthused by the tribute act.
“They” are proven Scottish speakers , with jobs in Glasgow, with cars and kids and mortgages……. In a Scottish accent. Celtic are all that matters on Saturday. Let’s win the fitba game.
Its not a war. Its not the final judgement.
I’d take
3-0……….
dharma
how true.
QF
SFTB
Just spent a great night in great CQN company. I am the Garry you have mistaken for Gary67. A table of good Tims split 50/50 on who is going tomorrow and who is not. Following that logic, I expect a crowd of 33000 tomorrow. ;))
Zbyszek
Pleasure to meet you at last. Thank you for your thoughtful gift from my Motherland.
Will cheer extra loud from the North Stand for you.
Forza Polska Celts!
Mick1888,
Agreed for the first half :)
SFTB
great to see u and DB tonight
Told Zbyszek that u bhoys weren’t in to see Oldtim and I but him
KTF
setting ….
It was basing this on my research of articles on UEFA.com and FIFA.com.
I’ve posted it on here several times.
phrases like ” first game since their reincarnation from liquidation” – FIFA and that the UEFA website attributes the old club’s history to the new club. they do the same with all died clubs!! like Derry, Fiorentina etc!
QF
Those amongst us going to the game tomorrow enjoy. Those who have chosen not to attend my utmost respect. Hh
Team for tomorrow:
De Vries
Kolo
Cifti, Sinclair,Roberts, Griffiths,Dembele,Forest,Rogic,Aitchison and Chrisie.
Score= 11-2
Christie sorry.
You know the OF is dead when there are no stomach butterflies a night before a Glasgow derby. This really is just another game.
MWD
G64
I’ll be watching the game tomorrow as I watch every match I can
I declined the offer to go tomorrow as I want Monica to experience it on her own, in the standing section whilst being safe with big crabbit taking her to and from the match
QF
You better tell Andrea Traverso, Head of Licensing and FFP at UEFA.
“….the new club/company entered the fourth tier of Scottish Football, and it was not able to play in UEFA competitions for the next three years in any event”.
The final word on it, surely.
Stick that in the programme!
Away from the bigot fest for a moment….another great restaurant in Los Cristianos. Served to us by a lovey wee guy from Livingston.
Casa Tagora is the name, do not miss it..glorious food and service.
Tomorrow will take care of itself, they will sit in.
We will try and win the game, they will play 5-3-1-1 ….what else can they do?
If all goes well , we will have a great day, if not….We will win the league anyway.
Hail! Hail!
I go to games with my wife and niece. both not coming tomorrow. first game they have missed In two seasons. reason – the horrible atmosphere. neither of them fancy it.
I’ll be there with my brother though. preferred the last four years though we’re football and not safety was all we thought about.
Crowded House – Four Seasons In One Day
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6xQkAOhyEw
I have had this smallpoxy feeling before somewhere.
Remember when smallpox had been eradicated only for it to be revealed that the certain God fearing nations kept cultures alive for Germ warfare. That kinda poxy feeling?
The Old Firm pox is back. Cant wait for the eboladrome
MoonbeamsWD ‘Stand up on 15 for the GB’ on 9th September 2016 11:05 pm
You know the OF is dead when there are no stomach butterflies a night before a Glasgow derby. This really is just another game.
MWD
……………………………………..
With you on that mi amigo.
Said to the Mrs earlier that I wanted the inadequate broadband for a couple of hours tomorrow, why said she, cos we are playing the huns said I, Oh them said she, they died didn’t they, yes said I, whatever said she, just feck them good and proper said she.
HH
Jobo’s sections Grace
https://youtu.be/fgjeZ_I_rmo
One of my fav’s
HH
Go to the game, it is Celtic that matter, not them !!!
Great indi tunes on bbc4.
Glasgow Derby huh?
I remember when Celtic played in the Gretna Derby eh?
Its like it never happened.
QF
Never been that impressed by the views of the uninformed and the partial.
I am patient enough to let the law take its course.
I will cheer our win tomorrow but dropped points will not spoil my weekend or the long term view I have.
Heading home now- catch replies later