I’ve dipped in and out of the online debate on Scottish football this week. Can’t believe how much has been written on the new club/same club debate. To what end?
If the boot was on the other foot, and Celtic were liquidated in 2012, my relationship with post-liquidation Celtic would be my business only. I’d have no interest in anyone else’s view on the status of Celtic. I am emotionally invested in Celtic, so would be happy to accept any ‘same club’ theory as fact, and would have no motivation in listening to any contrary view on the matter.
Similarly, under the same scenario, there’s not a ‘Rangers’ fan alive who would consider a scenario, with an insolvency practitioner considering whether to let newly formed Cevco 5088 use the name Celtic for their football team, and conclude: “Yip, that’s the same Celtic that started back in 1888, whether they get permission to call themselves Celtic or not”.
It’s lunacy and an insult to all our intelligence to suggest otherwise. I’ve yet to meet a ‘Rangers’ fan who could tell me with a straight face that they would be calling Celtic the same club under if the situation was reversed. In fact, they have openly admitted they would be filling their boots on the subject.
The critical moment in Craig Whyte’s plan was achieved when Duff and Phelps were appointed as administrators, who would subsequently be in a position not to object to a newco calling itself Rangers, as Airdrieonians administrators and liquidators stopped Airdrie United using the name from 2002 until 2013. Declining to object at Companies House to the use of name was a arbitrary act by an administrator, but it was critical to Whyte’s plan to sell tens of thousands of season tickets.
‘Rangers’ fans, however, can believe what they like, no matter what Uefa wrote. All other football fans will point to this huge liquidation event and hear no more on the matter.
You’re not going to convince one ‘Rangers’ fan, who believes they support the same club that was liquidated, that they are wrong. Why should they deny themselves the history and traditions of their club (OK, I’m at it here, but you know what I mean). Don’t waste your time, you’ll convince no one who doesn’t want to be convinced.
Similarly, if Newco Rangers win 51 of the next 100 titles, and Aberdeen win the other 49, when they recall their remarkable achievements, some Motherwell fan will pop up and say, “Aye, but you let our club die”.
For a century or more, if they survive that long, ‘Rangers’ will pitch up to games and hear “Glasgow Rangers, you let your club die”, up and down the country. Just as you’re wasting your time trying to convince a ‘Rangers’ fan who doesn’t want to be convinced otherwise, the liquidation of Rangers in 2012 will forever be marked when a club with that name takes the field. Forever. It’s not going to stop. Anywhere.
All efforts to expunge this notion from the nation’s consciousness have only raised awareness of the detail of the liquidation.
You and I have been talking about Cognitive Dissonance for a decade. It’s the phenomenon when an individual is caused discomfort by an apparent fact which runs contrary to a cherished belief. It’s what you’re seeing and reading in the sameco coverage, and could have been written for these great times to be a Celtic supporter.
Enjoy the game; serve moderate helpings of Cognitive Dissonance.
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The world’s media will be at Celtic Park tomorrow, but not for the football.
They’re coming in the hope and expectation that there will be some kind of trouble.
What made the O** F*** an attraction in the past was sectarianism, bigotry and violence simmering below the surface often breaking out into open warfare.
The O** F*** match may have generated interest in Scottish football, it may generate bigger TV deals, but it turns us into a freakshow.
Our own media only ever made a big deal of the mayhem when it could deflect attention away from a Celtic win. If there wasn’t any trouble, they’d concentrate on how poor the standard of football was instead.
For the SMSM, it’s only ever been a cracking game when Rangers won.
The game tomorrow is a chore, unnecessarily complicated by the SFA and media led delusion that they are the same club that was liquidated in 2012.
I can’t wait till it’s over, hopefully with all our players still walking and three points in the bag. A bonus would be giving them a 1957 style thrashing.
Then we can forget all about the horrible lot for a few months.
!!BADA BING!! on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 2:06 PM
Take a look at @FFBanList’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/FFBanList/status/774189307049508864?s=01
Shameful that Paddy Power (and Aberdeen FC, to a degree) dont care what happens to their employees….. I mean, hasn’t it been suggested that Celtic dont speak out due to fear of what might happen to their employees if they did ….
!!BADA BING!! on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 2:48 PM
Celtic Minded running a thread that the huns are paying loans from their ST money again….
Unless someone else if putting in money, it makes sense…. and it seems like we are right back to the year before they went into admin….. paying present debts with future revenue, and then counting on winning the league, and getting Euro money to keep them going …. I think that is what is happening again …. and they will NEED Euro money to keep going beyond this season …. so, every dirty trick will be pulled this season, including tomorrow, to help Sevco to win the league … because, I believe, their survival depends on Euro money next season.
ps …. not stalking you, honest! :)
Now…on Tuesday, i will be worried, because we are playing superstars.
On Saturday, we are playing a mob of bigot zombies with an identity crisis.
Slight difference.
HH
Tgm,
Agreed.
They had a lot of the ball in their own half. We had more than treble the shots on and off target.
HH
MIT- HH
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say with this piece, Paul67.
Either way, though, they’re deid and we have a duty to make sure this inconvenient truth is not swept under the legendarily accommodating Hampden carpet.
I must also say my favourite name for the new club is now Frankenstein FC …
VIP
I go to Celtic Park to support the team on the park, not a board of directors, not Peter Lawwell, immeterial of who we are playing.That has always been my thinking, and always will be my definition of supporting Celtic.
In the Brazen.
If we show the same desire tomorrow as we did against Hearts, or Happoel at home….they will fold.
Go right at them….pace, power, aggression, pressing them all over the park.
Lets see how good they are.
HH
https://i.imgflip.com/1a9i4q.jpg
JUNGLE VIP
Hans Christian Andersen FC:)
HH
Timabhouy,
Well presented case and argument :)
Bada …@8:30
not a dig, pal. Genuine question to a poster who seems like a reasonable sort…. dont think I agree with you, but trying to understand where you are coming from (and in truth …. trying to find a way that I can justify watching tomorrow! :)
…for me, the problem with that is, if we as Celtic supporters hive off Celtic as a team, from the corporate side of Celtic, and say ‘as long as a team plays in hoops at Celtic park, …. ‘ …. how then do we justify claiming that the zombies are wrong when they say ‘as long as a team in blue plays at Imbroke …’?
and …. seriously … I’m not stalking you … :) just you seem like a decent poster, and I figured I could ask you, and you would take my question in the spirit I intended,
JUNGLE VIP on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 3:29 PM
“I must also say my favourite name for the new club is now Frankenstein FC …”
——————
I prefer FrankenSTRUTH FC.
Although my favourite is Turdlanark. ;))
= = = = = = = =
BADA…
Agree,never went to a game to support a suit or an opposition team.
Celtic first,Celtic last,Celtic overall.
JungleVIP … I always call them Sevco … people say ‘who?’ and then I can explain that they were liquidated, and are a new company ….
DAMO LENNON on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 3:23 PM
1957 style thrashing.
I was there.
https://johnjamessite.com/2016/09/09/the-duplicity-derby/
MIT – absolutley no offence taken my friend, it was just a post in general, i totally understand why bhoys won’t go tomorrow, i am sure the decision was made with a heavy heart.I separated the Board /Team politics out many years ago.The Board has let us down IMO, in not nailing The Big Lie from Day 1.As Cowiebhoy posted a few years back, a simple ‘welcome to Scottish football….’ article in a match programme back in the day, would have put it to bed .HH
If we can smash them tomorrow, it will be a huge blow to them.
Up till now, they have got away with pretending they are Real Madrid, and their gullible fans and meeja are lapping it up.
Lets show them a real Celtic team.
Lets show them the reality.
Grrrrr:)
HH
Club 12 Temporary Licence FC.
Accommodated and Facilitated.
Normally, I would go along with resting key players in a forthcoming SPFL match which preceded a CL opening tie. However, given its away to Barca where we’ll be lucky to have 15% possession or be able to keep the ball for 10 seconds all night long I’d prefer us to go with our strongest 11 tomorrow.
It would have been a different story if we’d been at home to BMG.
I’ll leave Brendan to pick the 11 but I hope he goes with CG rather than DDV.
Tomorrow will be nothing new for CG and I’d rather not risk DDV freezing in what is going to be a hysterical and toxic atmosphere.
MIKE IN TORONTO on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 3:42 PM
Bada …@8:30
not a dig, pal. Genuine question to a poster who seems like a reasonable sort…. dont think I agree with you, but trying to understand where you are coming from (and in truth …. trying to find a way that I can justify watching tomorrow! :)
____________________
Mike, I’m with BadaBing on this one.
Here’s my take on it.
Hope it helps!
FAC the Act
KTF
our players attitude has to be right tomorrow, and we will win, all the talking has to be done on the park. Pressure them from the first whistle to the last, do not let up.
MIT
Wrong link in last post: http://www.celticquicknews.co.uk/the-clash-should-i-stay-or-should-i-go-september-10-2016/
I am astounded of the forehead at the complancy oozing across the blog.
If u have learned anything in Football and in Business in all my life then it is that every game/deal is the most important that day and takes 100% effort. I hope to god Btendon and the Bhoys don’t drift to Tursday night or tomorrow may be a horrible experience.
We are better, faster and sharper but if we relax our knuckles we won’t wrap the door hard enough.
Golf shoes on neck, hose down throat for 95 minutes – no holding back – no scone string- no slowing up.
Fullthrottlecsc
Love ‘scone string’ bliddy phone – second string
Interesting article, Paul.
If it had been Celtic, you certainly wouldn’t have the media buying into the lie the way they are with “Rangers”.
The worst culprit is the supposedly-impartial BBC.
I would love someone from that organisation deny that they are under an edict to use the term “old firm” when talking about tomorrow’s game.
I mean – is it remotely possible that they would say it EVERY time?
Never “Glasgow derby” or “Celtic-Rangers”? Old firm EVERY time…..
Erik received a parcel
Jinkyredstar –
What’s happening on Thursday?
My friends in Celtic,
I make no apology, I loved gubbing the old huns. And again I make no apology I will take great delight in beating the new huns.
No matter how much we play this down I believe many, if not most Celtic supporters will concur.
All things being equal, its about the most enjoyable three points available.
HH. COYBIG.
Auld Tam
I’ll be recovering from Tuesday :-)
The meaning of all of that
Some media is the whack
You believe it’s true, it blows me through the roof
Suckers, liars get me a shovel
Some writers I know are damn devils
For them I say don’t believe the hype
Yo Chuck, they must be on a pipe, right?
Their pens and pads I’ll snatch
‘Cause I’ve had it
I’m not an addict fiendin’ for static
I’ll see their tape recorder I and grab it
No, you can’t have it back silly rabbit
I’m going’ to my media assassin
Harry Allen, I gotta ask him
Yo Harry, you’re a writer, are we that type?
Don’t believe the hype
CARLTONDOUGLASRIDENHOURcsc
Paul67
Very mild and magnanimous, if I may say so,
Had we somehow cheated ourselves into oblivion, we wouldn’t be called Celtic, that’s for sure.
The Sevco situation is 4 years old now, and I agree with Celtic fans who think the Celtic non stance, or so called silence is a let down, and plainly wrong.
We should have openly condemned the old Rangers, after Sevco were given their slap by LNS, and long before the same club myth was allowed to grow arms and legs.
Right now we are in the full grip of the distasteful hyped up bilious ‘old firm’ mania, Celtic made commercial decisions and the club has backed itself into a corner. The upshot now is that its unlikely Celtic can ever properly record our position on what really happened with the cheating that blootered every club in Scotland, and not just Rangers.
‘The people’ think that it’s defamation and actionable to call them a new club?
Celtic will continue to carefully blank any literary mention connecting the two Rangers thats as close to a Celtic statement, as we’ll get IMHO
We’ve to, let it go CSC
‘Scone string’
21st century rope a dope.
Thanks for pondering, but time’s up for the question, “Who won the 1988 FA cup against Liverpool, AFC Wimbledon or MK Dons?”
http://www.givemesport.com/536969-there-is-no-real-wimbledon-anymore
Rony67- bang on mate, we need a high pressing game with a high tempo, Sinclair and Roberts will expose their severe lack of pace, they don’t have the quality of player to sit deep.HH
DBBA
‘Batter them’
Mair scone string