I’ve dipped in and out of the online debate on Scottish football this week. Can’t believe how much has been written on the new club/same club debate. To what end?
If the boot was on the other foot, and Celtic were liquidated in 2012, my relationship with post-liquidation Celtic would be my business only. I’d have no interest in anyone else’s view on the status of Celtic. I am emotionally invested in Celtic, so would be happy to accept any ‘same club’ theory as fact, and would have no motivation in listening to any contrary view on the matter.
Similarly, under the same scenario, there’s not a ‘Rangers’ fan alive who would consider a scenario, with an insolvency practitioner considering whether to let newly formed Cevco 5088 use the name Celtic for their football team, and conclude: “Yip, that’s the same Celtic that started back in 1888, whether they get permission to call themselves Celtic or not”.
It’s lunacy and an insult to all our intelligence to suggest otherwise. I’ve yet to meet a ‘Rangers’ fan who could tell me with a straight face that they would be calling Celtic the same club under if the situation was reversed. In fact, they have openly admitted they would be filling their boots on the subject.
The critical moment in Craig Whyte’s plan was achieved when Duff and Phelps were appointed as administrators, who would subsequently be in a position not to object to a newco calling itself Rangers, as Airdrieonians administrators and liquidators stopped Airdrie United using the name from 2002 until 2013. Declining to object at Companies House to the use of name was a arbitrary act by an administrator, but it was critical to Whyte’s plan to sell tens of thousands of season tickets.
‘Rangers’ fans, however, can believe what they like, no matter what Uefa wrote. All other football fans will point to this huge liquidation event and hear no more on the matter.
You’re not going to convince one ‘Rangers’ fan, who believes they support the same club that was liquidated, that they are wrong. Why should they deny themselves the history and traditions of their club (OK, I’m at it here, but you know what I mean). Don’t waste your time, you’ll convince no one who doesn’t want to be convinced.
Similarly, if Newco Rangers win 51 of the next 100 titles, and Aberdeen win the other 49, when they recall their remarkable achievements, some Motherwell fan will pop up and say, “Aye, but you let our club die”.
For a century or more, if they survive that long, ‘Rangers’ will pitch up to games and hear “Glasgow Rangers, you let your club die”, up and down the country. Just as you’re wasting your time trying to convince a ‘Rangers’ fan who doesn’t want to be convinced otherwise, the liquidation of Rangers in 2012 will forever be marked when a club with that name takes the field. Forever. It’s not going to stop. Anywhere.
All efforts to expunge this notion from the nation’s consciousness have only raised awareness of the detail of the liquidation.
You and I have been talking about Cognitive Dissonance for a decade. It’s the phenomenon when an individual is caused discomfort by an apparent fact which runs contrary to a cherished belief. It’s what you’re seeing and reading in the sameco coverage, and could have been written for these great times to be a Celtic supporter.
Enjoy the game; serve moderate helpings of Cognitive Dissonance.
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I expect had Scotland voted for independence the JJ stuff would have been buried long ago. The fact the target was HMRC staff and an attempt to take on the crown, this will be dealt with severely.
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 4:28 PM
Good team with one obvious exception,Roberts in for JF for me.
Important we win this to keep the feelgood factor going,as to lose would have more artificial fallout than to lose to Barca although that is clearly a bigger game in a bigger competition.
Important we put them in their place but we need motivated players in all positions.
I had to Google Tony Hart !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Morph-NMM-Bradford.jpg
4 days to the big game
This might go against the popular view but defeat tomorrow would hurt me a lot more than defeat on Tuesday.
JJ
JJ @1738
Agreed. If it all clicks it could be a drubbing. I’m not expecting one but I’m certainly hoping for one.
Games against Morton and Barca have shown that football is indeed a funny old game.
HH
A shocking piece of journalism from Reuters….
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-soccer-scotland-oldfirm-idUKKCN11F28G?rpc=401
don’t read it if you’re easily upset…
This is not going to be easy tomorrow.
Far too much complacency has been going on for my liking.
I know we are better than them player for player and that if we turn up it should be no contest but this is Scotland and strange things happen in matches involving Celtic and a team in blue from Govan.
If they play open, Celtic have a major opportunity to give them a going over if we play it right. If we don’t, then it could be uncomfortable when it should not be.
That being said I trust Brendan Rodgers to make changes when necessary and to have identified their weaknesses.
They are vulnerable if they leave space at the back due to our pace and trickery and they are vulnerable from corners and crossed balls from free kicks.
Height, pace and power are essential but Celtic need to show up and take Collum out of the equation. His buffoonery can cost Celtic and he will not want to be blamed for them losing (if he is the cause of Celtic not winning the match he won’t be under anything like the same scrutiny or criticism as we have seen before).
This game tomorrow sets up our season from here on in. Win this by any margin and we have a lead with a game in hand making life difficult for them. Beat them convincingly demoralizing them and their fans in the process with trips to Pittodrie and Tynecastle to come and we can see them implode.
That is why it is important that Celtic go about their business properly tomorrow and don’t think it is won nor that Barcelona is up next. The next game is tomorrow and it is the most important until it finishes.
All this talk of 4 or 5 plus goals is premature and presumptive no matter how poor they may be but it’s about what we do, our attitude and application.
Believing the game is won before a ball is kicked is dangerous. I don’t believe the players and manager have fallen into that trap but I don’t like it when fans do.
They are using that presumption or perceived presumption as some kind of motivation – everyone’s written us off tripe just like last time so they claim (even though the media built them up wildly before the semi-final as well and claim a 2-2 draw is some kind of thrashing).
Don’t give them an inch. Don’t let up.
Get the job done and if we get in front, keep it going.
But lets not think this is won right now. That is what they want.
Hot Smoked,
Its because you know we should be hammering the new club as barca should be hammering us just on the gulf of resources and talent.
Brendan will not tolerate the kind of performance from Celtic which marred the semi-final.
That single fact should ease any anxiety on here.
HOT SMOKED on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 5:38 PM
The difference is that Sevco are an average side that believe they’re a good
_______________
This is Sevco
side.https://uk.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A2KLqIqb59JXjCcACqd2BQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBncGdyMzQ0BHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEdnRpZAM-;_ylc=X1MDMjExNDcxNzA0NgRfcgMyBGJjawMwMGVpMnA5YnJpaHJzJTI2YiUzRDMlMjZzJTNEdmcEZnIDY2hyLXlvX2djBGdwcmlkA0JGc3NON1hyUkVxdmpzUEVCZEhXNkEEbXRlc3RpZANudWxsBG5fcnNsdAM1OARuX3N1Z2cDMTAEb3JpZ2luA3VrLnZpZGVvLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20EcG9zAzMEcHFzdHIDc21lYWdvbCBteSBwcgRwcXN0cmwDMTMEcXN0cmwDMTkEcXVlcnkDc21lYWdvbCBteSBwcmVjaW91cwR0X3N0bXADMTQ3MzQzOTcxMwR2dGVzdGlkA251bGw-?gprid=BFssN7XrREqvjsPEBdHW6A&pvid=KSWERjk4LjEAOkLKV7lHfAL_ODEuOQAAAADmiMjZ&p=smeagol+my+precious&ei=UTF-8&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av%2Cm%3Asa&fr=chr-yo_gc#id=2&vid=e4414b3706912470eaf390cd8a276b47&action=view
Canamalar
Those two points are valid but my dislike of Sevco and its supporters is the main reason!
Cheerio for now.
Pint time.
JJ
EXCATH
Ha – never thought I’d see the day when I was selecting Wee Jamesie either.
The thing is Rangers were one of the sides he never played well against, but I reckon he could turn over Sevco.
Paddy Roberts to torment later in the humping
p.s. don’t tell anybody but my ‘principled stance’ has been creaking all week.
I’m glad there is a bit of realism creeping in about tomorrow. We have the better players and should win but if the attitude is not right they could win.
In the Cup Semi last year the attitude was not right, we started at a pedestrian pace and they were buzzing around like blue assed flies.
We need to set out our stall from the very start and go at them. We have clever pacy players in Roberts & Sinclair, If we can get them running at the Hun defenders with purpose we can terrify them.
We are a better team when we are on the front foot, going at the opposition, tomorrow we need to put down a marker that we are light years ahead of them or at least 5 years ahead of them.
Sevco are best price 9/2. I cant remember us ever being as big as that and I’ve checked odds since mid 70s.
BR is my main source of confidence tomorrow. I can see much of MON steel mindedness about him and he won’t want to fail in his first game v thems especially at CP.
On the park, they won’t handle Sinclair’s movement and excellently timed runs into the box… Imho
I think a lot of fans on here are confusing our own arrogance & belief with that of the players. Make no mistake the squad will be well prepared tomorrow & will be taking nothing for granted; for this, they will destroy the pretenders.
This is the big difference between the Ronny era & the now the team do their talking on the pitch as opposed to in the media.
I believe we will destroy they so badly that Joey Barton will wake up on Sunday morning & retire from football.
I apologise to any victims who may be blogging/lurking for bringing up the topic of child sexual abuse but I find it the most appalling aspect of rangers fans portrayal of Irishness or celticness. Sexual abuse knows no boundaries, it does not belong to an organisation, a class, a race, a nation,a religion or a gender. It is an insidious part of society and will be for a significant time to come. Thankfully many of us know this in society and try to help victims and protect future victims. Abusers and those beginning unwanted behaviours would want society to portray it as part of only one group so we will turn away and ignore their crimes. Abusers would want thousands of people to stand by a banner linking one group of people to abuse. I don’t know if they have condemned but it is inconceivable that the new rangers organisation would not condemn the banner as they have a child protection role given the significant amount of youth work footballs clubs carry out. Where is the governance and moral guidance in that club? I know friends who work on reviewing the sex offender list in the locality, an unseen and challenging job; the people they review come from all backgrounds and themselves can have harrowing histories. They would be appalled that adults would consider it an appropriate topic for mud slinging.
I’m only interested in us putting out our strongest 11, playing well, bagging the 3 points and coming out the other side with no injury worries…..so now that’s the Barca game taken care of…..same for tomorrow minus the media driven O## F### circus. ;-))
BringontheclownsCSC
FTSFA
H.H.
BOURNESOUPRECIPE on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 5:52 PM
I will blame the ” creaking ” of your principled stance,on your temporary lack of judgement re JF.
Seriously, if he weighs in,takes on his man,and works hard,I will be pleasantly surprised,but pleased.
Lets hope we both enjoy a win.
HH.
Cork – any spl side can beat us on any given day. So we can’t turn up and expect 3 points. If we work as hard or harder than them we will beat them. Same as most other Scottish clubs.
The hype (much as I hate it) might just help ensure our players are ‘up for it’.
I’d be more concerned of dropping points if we were playing Ross County or hearts before Barca. The pretendy Old Firm (sic) crap will work for us on the field.
I will suffer the game tomorrow. Hopefully the familiar flies that are following the new turd will be silenced from early on.
And once more – stay safe bhoys and ghirls. These flies are poisonous
bournesouprecipe,
I hope you go to the game. ;)
10 of the best against the DEAD Rangers
I reckon we have scored many better goals, where Teamplay made the goals, that clip concentrates on the great strikes.
Ge t Here if you can.CSC
Hi lads, not been on for ages and ages but occasionally scan the Celtic sites to pick up on what is happening in the world cyber Celts.
The big topics recently have seemed to be to attend or not to attend the “Rangers” game tomorrow, and then on its importance in the general scheme of things.
I had a wee think myself and wrote up a wee story on the question and rationale behind attendance. I’ll get to that in a minute or so, but if I could just say that wild horses wouldn’t keep me away.
If I had to fork out £50, well I don’t know. Probably not. If I hadn’t either been committed or couldn’t afford a season card, I don’t think I could have justified the ridiculous expense. But Who knows, I may have just acquired a very saleable granny or nicked some lead off a roof for a one off ticket purchase? Youthful entrepreneurship is a thing that is in the DNA! :)
Anyway, as for the games importance? If it is a low priority and team matters will be compromised to meet commercial considerations I have no issue….PROVIDED that is announced prior to the kick off by the decision makers from the centre of the pitch to the cauldron of the support. Many of whome will have paid £50 with an expectation built in.
Personally the next game is always the most important and I, including my inbuilt antipathy to The Rangers football club want to walk around the city next week with the most outrageous grin on my phisog.
If Brendan really has his hand on the heartbeat of the support then he and the squad will be going for this with the best that they can muster with little or no quarter given for Tuesday’s encounter until the outcome is guaranteed.
There is a renewed relationship between support, team and manager. Tomorrow would be the absolute worst time to create unneccessary fissures.
As for why I will be there….
You may find it irreverent, blasphemous even, historically inaccurate and personal. None of which I apologise for…it’s just my way of couching and presenting my feelings.
Sadly what I do need to apologise for is that it is very long….it’s been nearly 60 years in the making….and may come across as a broken Jigsaw with bits that don’t fit, or bits from the wrong box. That is something that I no longer have much control over…it is however the first thing I have managed to complete (albeit be warned …PART 1 only of a quartet of my drivel) and it has taken me the best part of two weeks to get to here. I hope it comes over as honest….if different.
Long gone, like Estadio are the days when I could stand in a queue for a fish supper in Ann’s Fry after supping half a keg of Guinness, go home and run off a pile of pash in half an hour. Don’t even do the Guinness and food much anymore…so I can’t blame my nonsense on that.
Same pash is guaranteed, it just takes a helluva lot longer.
Finally before the link….as a support, as people we all reach any point in our lives having navigated a vast array of unique encounters, obstacles, opportunities and relationships. Our decisions are formed similarily from those experiences and impact they had on us.
We may come to the same decision but the factors will rarely be the same. We like the paths we have walked are unique.
There is no right and wrong. Just different ‘rights’.
Anyway….if you are interested in “how the simple clink of a glass, the background lilt of Richard Tauber or Amelita Galli-Curci and me sitting wide eyed, cross legged in Albion Street or the North Square…. stories rising and falling with a melody and in time with the shadows whispering on the walls and ceiling, born from the flicker of the coal fire ” made my decision for me, then it is at….
http://goo.gl/Wj2jTu
Hail Hail
Matt
Good Evening Timland.
I’ll be delighted with any kind of victory and no injuries
tomorrow.
I told everyone I wouldn’t miss the Glasgow Derby. I don’t. I wondered if I was kidding myself on. Now that a pretend version is taking place I can confirm that I would happily never ever watch such a thing again.
My da always said that no one could enjoy such games. He was right. Hate filled hatefulness.
I fully expect Celtic to win the game tomorrow, I do not expect to win the game on Tuesday.
Strongest team out tomorrow and give them a doing, let Tuesdays team do their best to give us some kind of a result.
If Tuesday in nothing worse than a 2-0 defeat I would be happy as goal difference may come into it for 3rd place..??………….HH
GEORGE MUNRO
Can’t argue with your point..enjoy the day.
It looks like Doris Dumfries has won the battle for the No.1shirt for tomorrows game.H.H.
Davidopoulos, many thanks for that. Just back from Achill so Castlebar it is.
JFH
Was it a borderline decision?
That should have been ” Geordie Munro” doesn’t matter struggling with a poor Internet connection, he said shamefully.
really really looking forward to Tuesday.
I don’t care if we catch a hiding in Catalonia. I’ll still relish being at the top table.
Tomorrow – yuk.
petec
Was there ever any doubt?
RobertT
Team for Camp Nou
:::::::::::::::::De Vries:::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mikel:::::::::Kolo::::::::Erik
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Gamboa::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::KT
::::::::::::::Big Nir::::::Broony::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
:::::::::::::::::::::Rogic:::::::::::::::::::::::::
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Roberts:::::::::Moussa
BSR.
Applause
Come on the Brilliant Celtic.
Tomorrow is gonnae be a Good Day in Paradise.
Anyone thinking Brendan won’t be wanting to annihilate this new entity of Rangers @ Celtic Park is aff his heid. The Celtic players will be Highly motivated to beat this Tribute act. No Mercy.
;))
BOURNSOUPRECIPE. Fella well said. H.H.
I’m sure that was Tony D on the STV news. :)))
MATT STEWART on 9TH SEPTEMBER 2016 6:07 PM
I enjoyed that. I will be downing a nice bottle of Italian red and will re-visit the blog. I suspect it may make even more sense then!
FAC the Act
KTF
Firstly, well done to tic fan wearing the hoops who was the last passenger to board the BA1492 from LHR to GLA. Class.
JJ makes serious allegations about former senior Police Scotland Officers and present Management passing HMRC staff personal details to the the extreme element of the RFC support. We have seen some of these individuals resort to bombs and bullets and several innocent Celtic fans have lost their lives for wearing a scarf.
Police Scotland cannot investigate their own. Several newspapers have highlighted that rather than investigate their failures they hunt for the internal leak.
It requires HMRC to bring in The Met Police to sort out Police Scotland. The Met force for all its failings is trying to modernise. Police Scotland has been the single biggest failing of the SNP. I would have a Judge oversee the investigation to establish the truth.
The ongoing collapse of the case regarding Sevco fraud tells me the Procurator Fiscal is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
3 nil tomorrow to the good guys.
Take off !!!