I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.
I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?
“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”
Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course. History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate. In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.
The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board. Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.
If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats. So much for the history, but what about the punishment?
Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past. For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.
The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.
But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease. Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club. The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco. And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.
We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.
The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations. Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.
Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.
Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.
No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
Pay your bills!
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SPL LANDING ==SOFT LANDING
SORRY
SPL PARACHUTE == SOFT LANDING
Dixie Deans – great Celtic pictures from the past
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
hun to boycott away games next season
stupid huns hehe
Sorry my mistake re: Alex Thomson. I thought he said tonight but he didn’t say any day at all.
So Dawwyl King speaks on behalf of the Rangers support!!!
Hail hail
StMichaelsBhoy2 on 12 April, 2012 at 14:45 said:
Strong words in a US article about the SPL’s proposals:
Excellent, thanks. Glad to see it’s not going unnoticed elsewhere.
The best way to rob a bank is to buy one: Gold collar crime is the gig. If you can get it. Only a select few can. The long chill from those butter & egg men Duff & Duffer has been misconstrued as a filibuster- might they not be stuck behind the eightball? Its hard for any of us to see the chinese angle in all of this but it seems to be going along the lines of a clean sneak away with the coinage before Hector drops the guillotine. I cannot believe they haven’t suffered some blowback from the stalling game, if that is what it is. Whytey still has dibs over the assets- so who then is the sucker who will take on the assets before the BTC? There is no question of a Lazarus moment for Hun mark I- so whatever happens Hun1873 will go into its big sleep in the wooden kimono.
bournesouprecipe
what a great pic. the 2nd goal I remember after big billy’s opener….
I was standing at the back of the Celtic end with my Dad, standing on beer cans.
what a great Hibs team that was……in most aother eras they would’ve won a couple of leagues and cups over a 3 or 4 year period…..the problem was that even though we were coming out of the Lisbon Lions era, we were better than them.
great memories
Clyde wanted Alex Thomson to appear on SSB while apparently forgetting that he works on Channel4 News which starts at 7pm. Snide of Clyde, and Thomsonson the ball.
MWD @ 17.26pm,
Done buddy. No heid in the sand over here.
voguepunter,have you anything to add to this thread or is it all
BAD language.
stillintheboozer CSC
hmmm
the ole spidey sense is tinglin
so… have I got this right
rumours of Salmond and HMRC meetings, kept confidential
rumours of SPL, SFA, RFC admin meetings, kept confidential
RFCIA need clarity on options, above all else, to sweeten-up the bids.
The SPL come out with this ‘interesting’ set of proposed rulings for a newco which, by any marker, offer a remarkably lenient avenue for newco entry into the SPL. On cue, the administrators release a set of bluster to the press, protesting that the timing of this causes no end of problems. How, exactly? It can only be welcome news for them and their efforts to sweeten the bids. Consider your concerns as a bidder if these proposals hadn’t come out, the lack of clarity around a newco, would they need to start in div 3? This is a strong clear message that “the SPL” will bend over backwards to re-instate them – if these aren’t approved, a revised set will be proposed.
The administrators know this, must be rubbing their hands in glee. They need to protest via the press, otherwise this will be seen for the sell-out it is.
Watch, also, for meaningless “concessions”. The two-contract issue may well result in proposals that some titles are taken away from them. This, in the scheme of things, is no more than soup being offered in return for compliance. Meanwhile, the real business of keeping them – in any name – in the SPL will continue.
Awe-Naw:
Couldn’t agree more.
A liquidated club belongs to no league.
A newly formed club with no history parachuted into the top flight of Scottish football?
I don’t care what the penalties are, that’s a peach of a deal with no precedent.
The reason there’s no precedent is because it is a ridiculous exercise of favouritism and expediency over integrity.
Greetin huns might not ‘get it’ but then they are accustomed to their self-proclaimed sanctified status and that hasn’t changed in spite of their recent ‘troubles’.
one for the legal/accounts,
Recently a law was passed whereby HMRC could go after pheonix companies,now I know this will not apply to corrupt fc due to admin before the law came into being.
BUT, the spl are making a new law which encourages clubs to follow this exact scenario. Flying in the face of the principal of ficsal prudence.
Surely they will have something to say about associations lagislation drafted to assist tax evasion ???
the new rangers mirren strips right enough.
http://www.footballkitnews.com/3976/new-diadora-st-mirren-kits-12-13-away-kit-2012-2013-and-135th-anniversary-strip/
Did I hear right? Did the Clyde panel agree that there is a clear case for dumping Rangers out of the SPL.
Are they only free to say this because they know it’s not going to happen?
The Wrath of the Green Pound
Likey
Paddy T away again
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 16:52 said:
Alex Thomson’s thoughts on the proposals
Before people get overwrought on SPL rule-changes… if 2a were adopted RFC would look nothing like now…. could not play in Europe… would have to pay debts…will have depleted squad… so reduced playing success… radically reduced income. Parachute to SPL yes, soft landing no.
Tin hat. He has a point.
————————————————
I posted something quite lengthy this morning the jist of which is what you write. Surprisingly I did not need the tin hat or flak jacket. Expected it though.
Whatever happens they will suffer.
The big problem is the issue of INTEGRITY. A penalised newco straight in to the league which smells just the same as the oldco but without any attempt being made to make good their debts is just plain wrong.
Rangers will suffer on the field of play BUT the only fair and just outcome is that they re-enter the league set up at the bottom.
If it doesn’t happen we have to look at the positives which are along the lines of your post.
Bottom line – RFC RIP. NewcoRFC financially crippled from day one.
There are preferred outcomes for us, we will be in a position of strength whatever the outcome. There are preferred outcomes for Rangers (forget CVA, ain’t happening) all of which end in some measure of pain. Good.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 16:52 said:
Alex Thomson’s thoughts on the proposals
Before people get overwrought on SPL rule-changes… if 2a were adopted RFC would look nothing like now…. could not play in Europe… would have to pay debts…will have depleted squad… so reduced playing success… radically reduced income. Parachute to SPL yes, soft landing no.
Tin hat. He has a point.
————————————————————–
Soft landing no? The fact that they will still be in the top league, no scrap that, having a football club at all is the softest of landings these people should be hoping for
Nothing reveals the sick, twisted and repellent mindset of the Rangers fans more than todays petulant dimming spitting threat to boycott away games.
This, for them, is the Deal of the Century, a stitch-up of epic proportions which gives them a free ride back into the league, with zero debt.
Still this is not enough for them. They recoil at the idea of ANY punishment at all. They seek to pull this little trick of theirs, this sleight of hand, and get away with it scott free. Nothing shows them up more than this.
However ….
I am with them this time. This is a bad, stinking deal for everyone in the game. To even allow NewCo transferring of shares opens all kinds of doors which should be nailed shut. It pees all over fans and creditors.
It is disgusting. No points penalty will deter clubs like Hearts, Rangers and the rest; not if they can keep their squads, sail on as before and dump every penny of indebtedness. It will become the norm.
I would rather this was called what it is; a free ride for tax cheats, crooks, fraudsters and con-artists. A Get out of Jail card for clubs with no morals or scruples. And in those circumstances I would prefer NO penalty at all, the better that the world can view these proposals most clearly for what they ARE …
A Cheats Charter which destroys the integrity of our game.
Even so, for the fans of Chernobyl FC to be gurning at the idea of this is shameless and disgusting. This is Who They Are.
Neil canamalar Lennon hunskelper extrordinaire on 12 April, 2012 at 18:06 said:
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
hun to boycott away games next season
stupid huns hehe
———————————————————-
Why? What is their ‘reasoning’? Who exactly do they have issue with and why?
Is there something wrong with people demanding that they either pay their taxes and other debts or that they be punished instead?
As you say, stupid……
How can spl clubs vote on issues such as the re-admission of an insolvent club at this time when there is an as yet incomplete investigation of the most serious nature into whether one(or more) of it’s member clubs played ineligible players for a number of years?
Surely the investigation into alleged non-reported payments much be concluded and dealt with in the first instance to allow all member clubs to be aware of the full picture before voting?
Thoughts?
Meanwhile, over at St Pats Vs Shammy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0GK_mvpMcE
RobertTressell
There’s no doubt in mind that I want them an ex-Rangers, gone and ceasing to be.They have cheated and continue to cheat. I am merely trying to see things pragmatically because I know how the failed businessmen of the SPL work.That’s all, and irrespective of any UEFA beady eye.
tully57
Don’t think any Celtic fan who was there could forget that day.
Hibs were a fine side, – but were soundly beaten.
HH
Wow, wow and (can you guess?) Wow.
The mindset of Der Peepils is a wonder to behold. Calling for a bhoycott of away games next season due to the perceived harshness of their , cough, punishment. Am I a weapons grade idiot for being bogglized of mind by this? (rhetorical question).
Is this a bit like Peter Sutcliffe going tonto cos Santa brought him a 180G Playstation instead of the 320G model he wanted, when Santa should have in fact tossed him into a big fire?
Not though that analogy through but that’s what dumfounded rage can do to yer heid.
This hun (clyde) has a point. I rarely say that, but he does.
SPL should make its mind up. Punish rangers PROPERLY or take the money they will bring with them.
Sounds like roderick is reaching the end of a bottle,never mind his tether
That’s a very nice Rangers strip that St Mirren are going to wear.
Rodders, rodders rodders.
Its really Dave.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 18:40 said:
That’s a very nice Rangers strip that St Mirren are going to wear.
————————-
and they can use their red and black scarfs to match
Guys honestly that’s what we’re up against in this country regarding Huns.
They plan boycotting away games, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
No shame and no dignity, you deserve everything that comes your way.
bloke
with all due respect Thommo still seems to be failing to grasp who we are talking about here RAGERS
all this look at the state they are in and they won’t have Euro money .
As soon as the CHEATS CHARTER allows this mob back in the first thing they will do is launch a share issue with a rallying call to the knuckledraggers of
WE NEED YOUR MONEY NOW TO MAKE SURE ALL THE ONES THAT WANTED US BURIED ARE SHOWN WE ARE THE PEEPIL .
and the real backers (not the ones brought in to get rid of the debt )will come in from the shadows .
Decent people forget that when the CHEATS CHARTER gets it’s way all their sold off revenue streams are null and void .
134m how much do any of us think these monkeys would make with euro income for 3 yrs ,sounds a no brainer to me .
medtim,
my thoughts, and – admittedly – I’m just a touch cynical about how much of this is hidden from us.
It was performed in this sequence quite deliberately. This smacks of expectation management. These proposals have been published in full anticipation, indeed prompting, of a backlash. Whilst we all rage, the theory is that – subliminally – our expectations are lowered.
With a few further “concessions” – unallied to the SPL parachute – and fairly easy management of the media message, the main objective is achieved. And the approach will include peeling away any support or indignation from supporters of other SPL clubs. The only protestors left will be the paranoid tims, and they’ve always moaned, haven’t they.
American commerce would be a much poorer place without Enron.
Discuss.
Saint Stivs
Well yes, good point. They can play at Hate Street.
Remember that club we beat 5-0 to win the league? That club that won’t exist in August 2012?
RT
I disagree with both your and Bloke109’s take,
suggest you read ROW Z’s reply on Alex’s blog, rules do exist, exactly for this scenario, what Alex has done is fall into the lazy journalism trap, he accepted the spl’s word for it without checking the facts.
He got it spot on yesterday when he tweeted “With toughest measures on RFC hardest to get thru it looks a fix to assist a potentially massive tax-dodge”
and IMO that is the only way the new rules should be viewed.