I was speaking to someone with only a notional interest in football last week who complained about football fans logic on several fronts including the notion of History.
I was asked, “What does it matter if a Rangers Newco playing at Ibrox being supported by the same people have an intangible claim to what happened in the past?
“Their memories remain, they cannot relive the past, what matters most is the future.”
Only a non-football fan could think like this, of course. History is the context for whatever happens today, without it, the game is diminished, but we are now in a fascinating debate. In practical terms, Rangers history could become quite a burden with the next few weeks.
The SPL are currently undertaking an inquiry into alleged illegal registration of players at Rangers during the 13 years before Craig Whyte rescued the club from the old board. Hundreds of football matches could have been played, many trophies ‘won’ with footballers ineligible to play.
If these allegations are proven, games involving ineligible players will be marked as 3-0 defeats. So much for the history, but what about the punishment?
Our friends at STV suggest that the SPL hold the view that the transfer of a league share from a liquidated company to a Newco would inherit historical rights from the liquidated party’s past. For Rangers Newco, this would include penalties for around 500 games played by Rangers FC with invalidly registered footballers.
The tariff of which could sink even the healthiest balance sheet.
But still, if liquidated, Rangers FC, founded around 1872 and incorporated in 1899 would cease. Newco can play wherever they like, it would be a new club. The law would protect it from misdeeds of the old company while any assets, such as the badge design, film archive or historic Arsenal shares could be purchased by any third party, including Newco. And before you bid, owning the badge design does not make you Rangers any more than if you acquired Rangers SPL share.
We’ve been told you can buy and sell history in recent weeks which is clearly nonsense but in finding a path through this subject you need to ask what is in the power of each and any organisation or group to affirm.
The SPL can transfer a share in the league and, in conjunction with the SFA, player registrations. Both can also impose outstanding disciplinary measures.
Duff and Phelps can sell the badge design independent of the league share.
Craig Whyte can sell the stadium independent of all of the above.
No one can sell, buy or transfer 140 years of history, which is why football fans recoil at suggestions of a Newco replacing their team.
Can you write an article for CQN Magazine? Give me a shout, celticquicknews@gmail.com
Pay your bills!
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Sscumbags.urely if the Huns are going to boycott all away game that removes one of the financial reasons for allowing their cheating to go unpunished.
No away fans= less income=beat it ya shower of deluded, cheating, tax dodging to Division 3.
ulysses mcghee on 12 April, 2012 at 19:06 said:
Bizzarre request of 2012.
It’s a long shot I’m sure, but I believe in CQN Faeries…
—————–
so you want someone to bring a Belfast sink from Belfast.
I hope they have the plug in before they set off
Sorry, to be clearer
¡There is no mechanism’
Isn’t it written in the SPL rules that in the event of a club being unable to fulfill its fixtures, relagation would be adjusted? Is this why the desperation to keep them going? So that they WILL fulfill their fixtures and that that rule can’t be invoked?
They keep going on about a moral maze re the newco’s admission or not into the SPL. but given that a vacancy will arise in the SPL, why should all SFL teams not have the option of bidding for that place? Do the proposed new rules get round this by allowing the ‘transferred’ football club to continue to exist and so to continue to hold its SPL place?
would love to have been a fly on the wall during that Ad break on Snyde,,,wee Dawwyl would have been raging at Spiers for backing him into a corner!!
Hail hail
Bournesouprecipe @17.56
That’s a superb action picture of Deans. Seems we have to look at times past to see such quality newspaper action pictures. When I look at some of the great action photos of goalkeepers in particular in old mags and newspapers it makes you wonder has this type of photography become a forgotten art..
Wonderful argument from Darryl King re the Rangers dual contracts punishment scenario.
Darryl is arguing that, if we punish Rangers for this misdemeanour, we will have to punish Scotland who fielded these Rangers players in International matches.
The boy’s a genius. I don’t know why you guys cannae see this. :-)
sparkleghirl,
SPL Rule H5 – “If any Club in the League ceases to operate or to be member of the League for any reason, its playing record in the League may be expunged and the number of relegation places from the League shall be reduced accordingly.”
12 teams – huns go bust – no relegation – Ross County promoted – 12 teams.
And no place for Zombie Rangers.
Spiers destroys King on Clyde lol lol
http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/andy-gets-spiers-and-king
Hail hail
Hahahahahahahah – Dawwwwyyylll doesnt believe that the debt is as high as duff and duffer have told everyone – brilliant. He is commody gold.
Wee Dawwyl sounding a bit down in the dumps :D
Hail hail
Don’t give Speirs too much credit. He is currently perpetuating the lie about no existing rule exists to deal with the transfer of share of a club experiencing a liquidation event.
14. If:-
(i) a Member shall cease to be entitled to hold a Share; or
(ii) a trustee in sequestration, manager, receiver or administrative receiver shall be appointed in respect of a Member or any property of a Member, or an administration order shall be made in respect of a Member or any property of a Member or an order shall be made or an effective resolution passed for the winding up of a Member otherwise than for the purpose of reconstruction or amalgamation;
then that Member or its manager, receiver, administrative receiver, administrator or liquidator or any other person entitled to the Share shall, on receiving notice in writing from the Board following the Company in General Meeting passing a Qualified Resolution that such notice should be issued by the Board and confirming the identity of the proposed transferee, transfer its Share to such other person as the Board shall direct at the price of £1 and the Club owned and operated by such Member shall forthwith cease to be a member of the League and the Club owned and operated by the transferee shall become a member of the League in its place.
sounds a bit like tommy, waiting for the punch line
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 19:19 said:
Thanks. So the ‘mechanism’ to sort out this mess IS there. Can someone who calls in this week ask that? Why are we talking about a newco in the SPL when the SPL rules clearly cover these circumstances?
Take yer medicine!!! Hahahaha
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 16:52:
and
RobertTressell on 12 April, 2012 at 18:28:
I posted something similar last night.
Bloke109 is Neil Lennon:
You posted a sensible post early hours of this morning. Second one today although not your words, I agree with Alex Thomson.
Robert Tressell:
Totally agree re-CVA have said as much since week one of rfc(ia) happened. The olco is dead.
I smell liquid…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Did I hear the mention of 5 star tattoo removal on Clyde?
Moonbeams WD,
What they don’t like about that current rule is that the league clearly decides who the Share shall be transferred to and the club has to do it.
I bet the small print of Resolution 5 will change things so that this sort of process will only happen if the current club doesn’t pass it on to a Newco. In other words, the Newco becomes the default position with an aurtomatic right to first refusal on the Share/
Britney’s not a Rangers fan….lol
I’m being told that spiers is playing the proverbial “blinder” tonight!.Has darrell close to tears.
sparkleghirl,
The issue with the current rule is that if the liquidation happens in the summer there IS then a spare place.
And with that all the delays in the administration process along with the short term measures to get the huns to the end of the season make sense.
Ragers fans set to boycott as three penalties per game are too infrequent
MWD,
I know his weakesses, but he’s the first pundit I’ve heard say they should be out for breaking the rules.
Its a small but important admission IMO
Well done Spiers-credit where its due-if a bit late-think hes jumping to the ship that still floats-BUT ITS AS SIMPLE AS THIS:
– IF CELTIC OR ANY OTHER SIDE HAD COMMITED THIS AMMOUNT OF RULE BREAKING-THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN SLAUGHTERED BY THESE RANGERS DEFENDERS-THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN HUNG OUT TO DRY-
and thats what makes me sick to my soul-it makes me ill-it makes me ashamed to live in a country which dosent have the cojones to do the right thing-as much as i love CFC-Scottish football is unplayable anymore -unless they are punished by the rulebook-all games 0-3-all trophies in the period of doping taken off them and given to the team that didnt cheat-and all sane people for gods sake see SNP for what they are-hopefully theyve played theyre bloody hand too early-im rambling-but im furious
Can any of our cleverer contributors phone up and quote
the rules to these clowns,thought these journalists were supposed to be educated
Gordon_J backing Neil Lennon on 12 April, 2012 at 19:29 said:
Thanks, So hence the pathetically passive approach taken by the admins.
Typical Traynor talks Ragers down the Divisions, – he’s smug thinking it can’t happen.
Also he clearly fears Fraser Forster.
Paul67 et al
You do not need to be an expert in Company Law to know the meaning of the word liquidation. Neil Doncaster must use a different dictionary. For the record Neil, if and when Rangers FC go into liquidation, they are history!
By Mike Small
What would it mean for Scottish football and wider Scottish society if a business was allowed to build up massive debts, live well beyond its means, distort the ‘market’ of it’s own league, operate illegal business practices for years and then be let off with a slap on the wrist? It would mean that the SPL is a farce not worth taking part in.
It would mean that the idea of a common code – a leveling agreed practice was made a nonsense of. The games a bogey. Time to do walking away, en mass.
The administrators report to creditors published last week lists the debts, the largest estimated combined amount, more than £93m, is to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC). That’s your school and hospital and your community that doesn’t have income because of tax evation on a scale of grand larceny.
And taxpayer-funded bodies are also directly owed money including: Strathclyde Police (£51,882), Scottish Ambulance Service (£8,438), Culture and Sport Glasgow (£10,338), Glasgow City Council (£7,000), and others.
The report also reveals that Rangers owe more than £2.3m to 12 football clubs in Scotland, England and throughout Europe, including Hearts, Dundee Utd and Dunfermline.
Today we’re told that such behaviour will result in a pathetic sanction. That Rangers could start the next season with a ten point reduction in the SPL. But this completely contradicts past precedent that newco’s have to provide three years accounts.
As Rangers Tax Case has put it:
” I understand (but have not yet verified) that the process for a team that does not fulfill all of its fixtures is that all of its results are voided and it finishes the season on zero points. (or -10 points in Rangers’ case due to the penalty for insolvency). This would relegate Rangers from the SPL. The number of clubs who would likely object to a newco being dropped into the SPL could then start to rise. The chances of the SPL getting bogged down in court proceedings start to increase dramatically. Thus far, the SFA and the SPL have failed miserably to provide leadership in this process. Only recently stirred from their slumbers, they do not appear to have thought any of these processes through. It is vital that these organisations start thinking and listening to expert advice. They must figure out all of the pathways and pitfalls now.”
This is true, but the SPL clubs and fans of all clubs need to make it clear that any attempt to waive the rules and allow Rangers back into the league will humiliate Scottish football.
We’re asking all fans to support the statement: “If Rangers #newco are allowed back to the SPL immediately I will officially stop attending SPL football matches.” Put it on facebook and fans forums and twitter.
There’s an opportunity to remake Scottish football, but if this is allowed to happen, there is no point.
Also – sign this petition to to the SPL: http://www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/norangersnewco
teabhoy on 12 April, 2012 at 18:14 said:
Give me a clue???????????
If you know me ,you know fine well I am not one for profanities .
Paul67 ? don’t know why he deleted my post,I was only
quoting a line from a famous British(ggrrrr) movie.
Hail hail
Etims want to know if Celtic were involved in yesterday’s proposals for rule changes, prior to season ticket renewal requests.
I think we’ll know before that.
Someone should ask Darryll to read Arthur Miller’s All My Sons. The time to own up to their misdeeds are upon them. Wrap themselves in the Union Flag and parade soldiers at half time and give them tickets they couldn’t sell. But how many of those bodies flown home from Afghanistan could have been prevented if tax avoiders paid their taxes.
Joe Keller rfcia.
It is driving me INSANE : this rubbish about how IF Rankers get found guilty of tax crimes ; they’ve ALREADY been found guilty,guilty,guilty. The FTT is an APPEAL against that guilt. Jeezo.
There are also numerous other investigations into their malfeasance.
Ach.
two things jackhun said need challenged
no existing rules to deal with liquidated clubs – yes they do
what would clubs bank managers say about the loss of revenue if corrupt fc were liquidated – bank managers might fear clubs using liquidation to get out of debt.
How can you boycott and not do walking away?
jackhun,
now making a liar of himself, suddenly there are rules that exist, but the new ones will supercede them.
stephenpollock on 12 April, 2012 at 17:41 said:
Well said mate,the hatred of everything Rangers is more important than the champions.
Does anyone know the value of the irish tv deals with sky ?
Curious to know how these stack up vs current great and trumpeted scottish deal….
A simple post rangers solution to me is lower revenue from new tv deal for core season. League winners qualify for CL place.
This would be augmented by post season play off scenario as with current Rugby League in England with teams playing off for 2nd CL place.
This would retain interest in league until the last week as teams seek advantage in playoff scenarios, and would provide a grrat new post season TV product with very good crowds for all games…….
Simples….
To qoute Roger Waters :
“Blacked out vans;contingency plans”
“They like death & glory;they love a good story”
“Horses for courses;it’s the market forces”