Alasdair Lamont’s article for BBC this evening after meeting SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is bound to provoke debate. The article is titled, “Newco Rangers could avoid sanctions from SPL”, although that claim is not supported by any direct quote from Doncaster. It could be that Doncaster made a supporting comment which wasn’t covered in the article, or that Alasdair is extrapolating from Doncaster’s comment that he is “not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes [CVA or a Newco] out of administration”.
Before we open on what Doncaster actually said, it’s worth pointing out that he has never previously indicated that a Newco was likely to gain access to the SPL without penalty, despite being asked this question directly on a number of occasions. Indeed, he has proposed a number of penalties for such an eventuality, although any decision will now rest with a general meeting of the clubs, which he will not have a vote at.
To what Doncaster said:
“Newco is typically the way businesses in general escape from administration.”
Oh no it’s not. Businesses, in general, conclude their period of administration either by emerging with a CVA or by going out of business. The swathes of business failures across the UK in recent years has seen only a tiny percentage phoenix as a Newco. This statement is erroneous and misleading.
Doncaster added:
“I am not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes out of administration.”
Let me explain, Mr Doncaster. In Scottish football history, no club has ever come out of administration as a Newco. Ever. Third Lanark, Airdrieonians and Gretna all failed to achieve a CVA and went out of business. Morton, Clydebank (now Airdrie United), Motherwell, Dundee (twice) and Livingston (twice), all achieved a CVA and remained in football.
Mr Doncaster must think that we are all daft, have no access to Scottish football records and have a complete ignorance of how “businesses in general” operate. He wishes to provide a Newco-Rangers with direct access to the top league in Scottish football, the first time anything like this has ever happened. Perhaps being frank with us on this matter would be advisable.
Even if I was of a mind to agree with Doncaster that rules should be changed to allow Newco direct access to the SPL, his feeble attempts to convince fans of the merits of this idea would leave me ruing the inadequacy of his plan’s execution.
All of this will be a welcome distraction from the main issue for Doncaster. The SPL allowed last season to conclude without letting clubs or fans know if Rangers competed with ineligible players. They have been in possession of the information required for over six weeks now but have no intention of letting fans know the outcome until after Newco is voted into the league.
It’s too late now. Doncaster has had his chance to report and his inquiry has failed to do so. It has now been taken out of his hands. He has failed you and all Scottish football fans.
It’s time for football executives to relinquish power and for the old media, the fans, the new media and the authorities to take control.
You can buy a hard copy of the new issue of CQN Magazine via Magcloud here.
The graphic below is just for a flick through, to read the magazine go here to it’s dedicated site.
503 Comments- Pages:
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ernie
Have you garnered any more in the last week or so ?
Is your opinion the same as the last time I asked you what you think the outcome will be ?
My heed is minced, I know what I want to believe, but something is niggling away in the recesses that doesn’t go down well in the front bit.
Hope all you Bhoys have started the 9 day Padre Pio novena for Wee Oscar?
bournesouprecipe on 21 May, 2012 at 22:46 said:
Highly unlikely in the extreme, that Peter Lawell would discuss Celtic’s position at any informal event, with anyone.
__________________________
Have met PL on several occasions (in the company of a major shareholder) – conversation has been quite open – apart from policy!
Had the pleasure of grilling PL (face to face) on joint sponsorship (jerseys) for 20 minutes – good feed back……………… but you know what?
None the wiser – PL talks but never discloses information that would end up in the public domain – the mark of a good CEO!
Doncaster is someones clockwork mouthpiece. It’s the organ grinder we should be looking for, not the Monkey.
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/ on 21 May, 2012 at 22:58 said:
Have now Jude
Cheers mate
HH
God bless wee Oscar and family
So sad to hear about wee Niamh. Prayers and thoughts with her family. YNWA
James Forrest is Neil Lennon! We are ALL Neil Lennon! on 21 May, 2012 at 22:56 said:
While I still have doubts it’s worth pointing out that until recently it was vey much taken as read that we were going to be the only no voter. That being the case it could be that PL was confident enough in that outcome to spill the beans. As you say, things have changed.
jude
Can you post it again – apols for missing it.
Bundoran Bhoy
Good Man!!
Canalamar
The SPL rules are subject to SFA rules.
Cannot recall the section but it is very clearly stated.
Membership of SPL automatically allows membership of SFA and so coverage by SFA rules on matters of discipline and club licensing.
The absence of msm focus on who has final say is puzzling.
The SFA could justifiably kill Rangers any time it wants to, so far it has stayed its hand.
Until we meet again…
Keep the Faith!
Hail Hail!
Bloke109
There you go.
http://www.padrepio.catholicwebservices.com/ENGLISH/Novena.htm
Thanks jude.
I remember at that time Thompson and Brown were being sold as a double act as if they were conjoined twins and remember the video of the huns at Easter Road singing we’re going to take Scott Brown. The MSM were gutted when we got Brown and then had a campaign as to why Thompson was far the better player until he injured himself jumping into Sammi I think it was? Made an erchie of himself?
THE EXILED TIM on 21 May, 2012 at 22:56 said:
I’m still pretty certain it’s liquidation and a newco. I can’t see how that can be avoided.
Auldheid,
so should they face similar charges from the spl for breaking their rules too.
The two contracts is a seperate investigation, no
THE EXILED TIM
Hi m8, with the footie season over I’d still like to go for a weekend accumulator, what do you reckon are good value South American leagues for goals?
I’ve never followed any of those leagues but I’ve seen you posting a few SA bets now and again.
Celtic40me – okay – though I’m struggling with what to bet on for next year – whats Paul’s e-mail addy again. I have been a bit rubbish due to work committments – really wanted to go to the golf evening and meet a few of them but have missed the boat! Cant get enough time to seek attention these days.
James Forrest – what has happenned to make you think there has been a change.
Bould Hectors – mmmmmm – do you believe that?
Weeminger – yes its a minefield – but when Doncaster is lying is he doing so with the blessing of Celtic – because if Celtic dont respond that certainly what we all need to imply?
Canamalar :) – cheer me up man!
jude2005 is Neil Lennon \o/ on 21 May, 2012 at 23:07 said:
Bloke109
There you go.
http://www.padrepio.catholicwebservices.com/ENGLISH/
——
Jude, many thanks, my wife regularly prays to Padre Pio and has a relic but did not know this existed, cheers.
Ernie
If there was ever any doubt about the outcome for Rangers from their Insolvency, Neil Doncaster has been busting his chops trying to tell us different.
Rangers NewClub is the inevitable outcome.
Over to the Scottish Footballing public to tell him where its rightful place is.
I’m glad the clubs are voting just as season tickets are being offered.
The consequences on this income stream should any NEWCO hun mob be brought straight in to SPL would be catastrophic…
weeminger:
I see them rolling back a little every day now. On this site, we’ve spent months arguing that the SPL board is not empowered to make this decision and that it is, legally, the purview of the SPL member clubs as whole. Now we know the clubs will have the decision .. that is now policy.
We know a NewCo cannot be legally held responsible for the sins of the OldCo. We’ve debated that too. Sanctions as a “condition for entry” are all there is but if Rangers NewCo refuses to accept those sanctions what then? Deny them entry? All indications are that they will not accept any sanctions, so it’s going to be down to the clubs to reject their application.
We also know that the SPL have to answer to the SFA and that the SFA has to answer to UEFA somewhere down the line. As McDonald’s statements the other day about NewCo Rangers having fortunes to spend, whilst the creditors whistle, has angered people at HMRC, Ticketus and elsewhere – not to mention the clubs – Doncaster’s statements tonight will have angered people in England, and make a mockery of Financial Fair Play.
They are digging their own grave. It gets deeper each day. The attitudes of their fans are hardening too, and that has given pause to clubs who might otherwise have been happy to accommodate them in some way. If their fans are determined to punish clubs which even vote in favour of sanctions that inflicts financial penalties on those clubs even in the event of Rangers being in the league, and that removes incentives FOR Rangers to be in the league ….
Doncaster also makes claims about the voting structure. We know those claims are false. It is not an 8-4 vote but a 10-2 vote which is required to transfer a share in the league, and there is a legal case for excluding Rangers from such a vote, and in that event Celtic and Hibs can stop this dead.
In my view that is one of three major issues for the legal department.
The others are; 1) the Sky deal. Is it right to have our clubs voting based on a scare story, without a direct comment from Sky themselves? What exactly ARE the terms of the contract Doncaster holds, and is it legal for those terms to be kept from clubs being asked to make this decision? 2) Are the rules being followed exactly as they are written; SFA, SPL and UEFA regs, and how far as we willing to go in order to assure they are followed?
Celtic have a strong hand to play, an unbeatable hand in my view, and this is why I remain convinced that we WILL win if we are prepared to play every card in the deck. Alone, we might not be willing to go the extra mile. We will no longer be alone, and that gives me confidence.
Also, as Battered Bunnet and I have discussed many times, the SPL and SFA and UEFA might all be perfectly willing to allow this … but nothing will stop the clock, which is ticking loudly, counting down, and every day that passes is one less they have to resolve these issues. I don’t think there is time to do it, even if they got it up and running right now. It’s over.
Liquidation and Newco
All the players, right from the start, have known it is Liquidation and Newco. All that’s happened is that the Hun support have been softened up to this in careful small steps. Be clear history only matters to the hun followers. What matters to the players is winning. Winning only.
Newco is not the sting. What newco gets or becomes is closer to the sting.
Watch the floating charge carefully……… you’ll notice that it has quietly left the stage and has been absent for some time………… but…………. it’s central to the sting.
Coming soon. All the players are in play now and moving.
HH
ernie lynch on 21 May, 2012 at 23:09 said:
THE EXILED TIM on 21 May, 2012 at 22:56 said:
I’m still pretty certain it’s liquidation and a newco. I can’t see how that can be avoided.
——
Ernie I agree. Let’s not forget that liquidation means they NO LONGER EXIST. Think some of that is being lost in the debate about newclub.
James Forrest
Good story about Scott Brown, but with respect not on the same stratosphere as discussing Celtic’s policy close to the nearing liquidation of ‘an institution’, and ‘part of the very fabric of Scottish Society.’
Nothing with regard to Celtic’s position on a New club in the SPL has been formally relayed to the C.S.A. or other official Celtic bodies to my knowledge.
I hope you’re info received and posted in good faith, not only fly’s in the face of this Blog’s ethos, and is wrong.
Cultsbhoy
Nearly all the season book deals are done and dusted. This is an absolute requirement of the sting and is virtually in place. Max funds secured, sting to proceed. You are right that if this was outstanding the sting could NOT proceed. Whether it actually succeeds will be found shortly.
HH
estorilbhoy
My sister and mrs j are the same. Ive emailed it to all my contacts. Cant do twitter or F B.
Here’s another prediction, of not only will there be a New Club – they’ll be referred to and forever thus referred to as …………….Rangers.
ernie
I agree that new club is what will happen.
I should have been clearer, do you think that new club will be in the spl next season ?
………………………………………….
petec
South American football has very few goals, if you check out the results, most of the games will have under 2.5, especially with teams of the same standard, the better the teams, the fewer the goals.
Just like everything else, it’s a funny old game…………
That would apply in Argentina and Brasil, Chile,
As for the rest I’m afraid I wouldn’t know too much about them, in saying that Mexico would have markedly more than the leagues mentioned.
I tend to stick to betting on SA teams winning, sort of works for me.
My 12 euros is 76 now :>)))
ernie lynch on 21 May, 2012 at 23:09 said:
THE EXILED TIM on 21 May, 2012 at 22:56 said:
I’m still pretty certain it’s liquidation and a newco. I can’t see how that can be avoided.
Know where you are coming from ernie but the question should be ” Why should a club that has never played a game of football, never kicked a ball or never won a game of football just waltz right into the Scottish Football League when other clubs have been trying for decades to get into the league, at the stating point.
Think I will start me a football team. How about a CQN11, we would have as much right as any other new club?
bournesouprecipe:
I believe the people I spoke to 100%. Unimpeachable sources mate. He definitely told people the issue was going to be about sanctions, and the club was focussed on making sure they would be severe. He also said that in any event Rangers would not recover to substantially challenge us for ten years of more regardless.
I believe he was speaking in terms of our lack of support around the table for the rules to be applied. I do not believe Celtic would have “fought the good fight” alone, as that would have allowed the media and the other clubs to paint us as the selfish enemies of the Scottish game … and we were reluctant to fall into that trap.
I do not believe we would have lost … but the victory might have had destructive consequences, with Celtic labelled the aggressors who wrecked their rivals for personal gain. With allies, the football integrity argument is stronger, and with anger at Rangers rising we might have more allies than we know.
Wednesday could see the tide turn all the way.
Paul67 et al
There is something phantasmagorical about all that has come to pass since Rangers FC collapsed into Administration earlier this year, culminating in Sandy Jardine leading a march of the hopeless to Hampden and Mark Hately heading the walking dead around Ibrox at the weekend. A series of events so bizarre, that they are beyond the imagination of all but the most deluded. The six hundred, abducted by aliens and transported back to 1872, oblivious to the real world that surrounds them, the one in which the original no longer exists. Neil Doncaster does not yet appear to have heard that heavy crash,…. in the forest.
bournesouprecipe
They will definitely be that. The thing is, Celtic could be so far ahead of them by the time they get back into the SPL that they would be an irrelevance by then. ;)
We have, hopefully, sorted out the SFA so when they do get back up to strength (if they ever did) they can’t use their methods of before, none more so than their thieving from absolutely everyone they happened to do any sort of business with. They are bankrupt in so many ways.
Emdae got any spare tickets for the final in Lisbon? Inter Milan think this will be a walk in the park for them. Dont think big Yogi will make it tho!! Id go with.
Simpson
Craig Gemmell
Murdoch Mc Neill Clark
Johnstone Lennox Wallace Chalmers Auld
What do you think???
Kitalba
I had a very interesting conversation with a very bright and very long term SB holder.
He well understood the issues but at the end of the day all he wanted to do was turn up at the game and watch Celtic.
I think they vastly outnumber the bloggers. Around that inner core you have a ring who will want some sanctions and will accept them, and anothet ring who will want even more but will buy in if the option is to stop supporting.
Finally there will be those for whom no SPL at all for Newco is the only acceptable answer and if it happens, even if Celtic voted against, will still blame Celtic.
Celtic do not need to get the last ring on board since they are not open to reasons why Celtic failed, only that they did.
But Celtic do need to persuade as many of the inner rings as they can that they tried in order to minimise loss.
If the cost of winning everyone over exceeds the loss of income from the outer ring, Celtic will not incur that cost imo. It all depends on the numbers in each ring but my conversation suggests there will be more who want to keep watching than do not and this will influence where Celtic place their own line in the sand
THE EXILED TIM
Cheers m8, that is no good for my accumulators. :(
I might give the singles a go over the summer then.
Auld Neil Lennon heid:
I hope you’re wrong about that. That reduces our club to a business, focussed only on the bottom line, and that means its no longer the institution founded in 1888 to help the poor Irish immigrants.
Perhaps I read that wrong mate, but it sounds like you imply our club’s position will not be based on integrity or sportsmanship, but on how many of our fans would still come to watch us if we acquiesced to the NewCo arrangement.
If we’re basing our response on that, well … that’s a big problem.
Auldhied – so Celtic fans are simply disposable?