Alasdair Lamont’s article for BBC this evening after meeting SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is bound to provoke debate. The article is titled, “Newco Rangers could avoid sanctions from SPL”, although that claim is not supported by any direct quote from Doncaster. It could be that Doncaster made a supporting comment which wasn’t covered in the article, or that Alasdair is extrapolating from Doncaster’s comment that he is “not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes [CVA or a Newco] out of administration”.
Before we open on what Doncaster actually said, it’s worth pointing out that he has never previously indicated that a Newco was likely to gain access to the SPL without penalty, despite being asked this question directly on a number of occasions. Indeed, he has proposed a number of penalties for such an eventuality, although any decision will now rest with a general meeting of the clubs, which he will not have a vote at.
To what Doncaster said:
“Newco is typically the way businesses in general escape from administration.”
Oh no it’s not. Businesses, in general, conclude their period of administration either by emerging with a CVA or by going out of business. The swathes of business failures across the UK in recent years has seen only a tiny percentage phoenix as a Newco. This statement is erroneous and misleading.
Doncaster added:
“I am not entirely sure why a distinction is made between the two routes out of administration.”
Let me explain, Mr Doncaster. In Scottish football history, no club has ever come out of administration as a Newco. Ever. Third Lanark, Airdrieonians and Gretna all failed to achieve a CVA and went out of business. Morton, Clydebank (now Airdrie United), Motherwell, Dundee (twice) and Livingston (twice), all achieved a CVA and remained in football.
Mr Doncaster must think that we are all daft, have no access to Scottish football records and have a complete ignorance of how “businesses in general” operate. He wishes to provide a Newco-Rangers with direct access to the top league in Scottish football, the first time anything like this has ever happened. Perhaps being frank with us on this matter would be advisable.
Even if I was of a mind to agree with Doncaster that rules should be changed to allow Newco direct access to the SPL, his feeble attempts to convince fans of the merits of this idea would leave me ruing the inadequacy of his plan’s execution.
All of this will be a welcome distraction from the main issue for Doncaster. The SPL allowed last season to conclude without letting clubs or fans know if Rangers competed with ineligible players. They have been in possession of the information required for over six weeks now but have no intention of letting fans know the outcome until after Newco is voted into the league.
It’s too late now. Doncaster has had his chance to report and his inquiry has failed to do so. It has now been taken out of his hands. He has failed you and all Scottish football fans.
It’s time for football executives to relinquish power and for the old media, the fans, the new media and the authorities to take control.
You can buy a hard copy of the new issue of CQN Magazine via Magcloud here.
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James Forrest
Let’s hope so, the BBC (for example) referring to a Newco on a daily basis shows how much tide turns, when it does.
We have mythology already building of, they go straight from administration to Newco, but omit to mention liquidation or the end bit, which comes next, and before New Club and whatever happens in a vote.
Not long now to wait.
As fans we have been cheated out of many celebrations as a direct result of rangers choosing to spend money they didn’t have and worse.
However the businessman, the owners have been cheated out of tens of millions of pounds. They have not got to were they are today by being walked all over.
They (along with the players) have lost out more than anyone therefore they will be looking for maximum punishment. Although this may be SPL hell rather than three years of trouble free SFL football and a relentless succession of big wins week after week.
James Forrest – as always better put than me.
Its desparately sad – and incredibly disrespectful to a support which bankrolls everything that the club does.
Massive danger for Celtic here – makes all the debates on accounts etc etc seem inconsequential.
Auldheid,
“Finally there will be those for whom no SPL at all for Newco is the only acceptable answer and if it happens, even if Celtic voted against, will still blame Celtic.”
I think thats a bit unfair, I would actually think board refuseniks :o)would be a very small number. I expect most who would walk away, would not blame the board, but rather feel there’s no point in supporting a rigged competition. I thought most people who’ve said they wont go back was for this reason alone, few if any blamed the board.
Me I’ll blame the board :0)
Forget Sanctions!
Apply the rules! No negotiations, let them die.
There is no rule to let a new club into the SPL, never mind the SFL.
Let them die.
Rather play Spartans or whoever in any of the cups than Long time cheats and bigots.
I can understand Celtic PLC doing nothing but we as fans can not allow them to squirm back in as a new entity and we need to point out the illegality of it all.
petec
Why is it no good ???
Just bet on less than 2.5 goals…..simples really :>)))
Got slaughtered tonight with the Irish league, worst day so far this year.
St Pat’s, Sligo, Cork and Rovers all let me down.
Spoke to my mate who was at the Pat’s game, he reckoned they should have scored a dozen goals tonight, they lost 1-2, aye tis a funny old game……..
bournesouprecipe:
The distance we’ve gone already mate … from the “internet bampots” referring to the End of Rangers being ridiculed, to the now generally accepted fact that what we predicted (and I’ve been writing about it for four years. Four years mate. When I wrote The End of Rangers I was working in a homeless unit as a temp, Gordon Strachan was going for three in a row, I had a lot more living relatives, my good lady was still happily married to her ex and her wee girl had not even been born yet, Hilary Clinton looked a shoe-in for the Democratic Party nomination against McCain and there was a Labour government!) has come to pass.
Things have gone full circle. Ours is the “accepted wisdom.” The reality of this, whatever else happens, is that Rangers 1872 are a zombie club.
The internet bampots have been right, all the way down the line.
petec
Regardless of the outcome we should be preparing for the real generation(s) of domination.
It’s never been more important for Celtic to make the right decisions, and keep the support en board, and indeed gain financially and not lose anyone from the fan base.
Hope Doncaster has the decency to fall on his sword whenever the huns liquidate or evaporate or disintigrate or discumbobulate………..
or meet their fate………
which would be great……….
I just cant wait…….
sheer poetry csc
James Forrest @ 23.47
*Agrees with this*
HH
dannysbeard on 21 May, 2012 at 20:24 said:
Im so looking forward to seeing the Tic the morra
If any fine CQNer’s or indeed anyone you know are coming to Norwich therell be an all day party in the Temple bar (opposite Norwich Catholic cathedral)it would be great to say hello…………..
If you’re still looking in, Good Morning from Cebu……Please pass on my best wishes to the Caseys, Gary Scott, Beano, Michael Dooley (if he is about) Duncan and Lawrence (my nephews), Jamie and Luke (my bhoys)………(and the weans) et al……
Unfortunately I wont make it as 9000 miles is a wee bit prohibitive for a ‘friendly’
Just say it’s with Best Wishes from the founder of the original Norwich & District CSC….. Cheers.
Enjoy the day..
Regards & Hail Hail
TBM
James Forrest
You seem to have the same problem I have.
We change our ideas and moods re them’s like the wind, tonight you are feeling more positive than I do, a couple of weeks ago the reverse was the order of the day.
One thing for sure, what will be will be :>)
Auldheid’s post at 23.36 sums up the feelings of the majority I believe.
We sometimes get caught up in our wee CQN bubble. The majority of supporters will moan about a newco should it come to pass but will continue to buy their tickets and go to the games and will believe that is the right thing to do.
Canalamar
The two conttacts could have been SFA territory only.
The excuse for the SPL being given the job was to allow the SFA to be the court of appeal.
That is bollocks imo, the SFA were able to set up an independent appeals panel for their own enquiry.
Allowing the SPL to take charge was imo part of a salami slice approach to Ranger’s crimes. The same approach that allows Doncaster this is a common footballing insolvency event that can be addressed using precedents.
There is no precedent for what Rangers stand charged of over the piece and Doncaster has lost all credibility trying to suggest there is.
Mr Regan has so far kept himself out the spotlight but the time is coming when he has to cut himself and the SFA loose from the SPL
Can someone splainit to us thickos…
ok I admit I havent read up.
I dont know how it works.
Newco in the SPL next season.
Is it just the clubs that vote?
Why does one need a vote? Isnt it against the rules?
Doesnt Celtic participating in the Vote even for a “No” legitimize the vote?
Why are the huns allowed to vote? Isnt that a conflict of interest.
So say it comes down to it.
Celtic, Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, Ross County vote No (5)
Motherwell, Kilmarnock, St.Mirren, ICT, St. Johnstone, Newhuns vot yes (6)
Dundee Utd Mibbees aye mibbees naw.
Isnt that enough for a No?
Assuming huns are liquidated that is.
Never said this before.
Love to be in Norwich tomorrow!
Have fun Bhoys!
Paul Lambert, anyone put up THAT blaster against the huns before I go for a nap?
Oh go on, go on, please.
Early bird season ticket deadline for AFC 18 June.
I doubt the likes of AFC will sell many by now as I suspect for most teams fans are awaiting Hun outcome. As a regular attender to Pittodrie – it’s desperate, on the one hand visits from Huns and ourselves (Celtic) makes the experience for AFC fans bearable given they now harbour zero expectations of competing in the league…
The thought of no Huns holds very real prospect of 2nd place. This decision is in the eyes of many SPL fans a game changer.
No Huns boosts sales. Newco Huns in SPL depletes sales.
THE EXILED TIM:
I think all of us, to a certain extent, some more, some less, believe on some level they will slither a path to freedom of some kind. But I believe the clock has gone too far forward now for them to find a way back.
I’ll tell you what the nightmare scenario is, The SPL votes in favour of the NewCo. Celtic oppose but not enough to matter. The schism opens between clubs and fans up and down the land, the reputation of the Scottish game is annihilated, the consequences start to multiply and mount up … and all the while the arguments are raging, the clock runs down and Rangers don’t make it anyway …. time runs out, and they are gone by default.
Then our clubs all have to live with the consequences, to no gain.
I think the possibility of that weights heavily on a lot of minds right now. I think clubs will have asked for clarification on the status of the Sky deal, and Sky will have given some sort of indication as to how the land lies. The clubs will all know the bottom line. Banks will have made their own positions clear, and I would be surprised if HMRC have not also been in touch with clubs.
Dundee Utd Supporters Trust, in talks with their club, estimate an annual £1 million loss, at the extreme end of the scale, to their club if Rangers are not in the league, and that will only be for three years, if NewCo starts where it should. The combined costs to them, over that same period, from banks, from HMRC and other creditors, worried about Scotland’s own version of the “football creditors rule”, will be much higher than that.
Canalamar
Ok join both hands to make a ring of one. :)
the softening up works both ways rangers fans being slowly made ready for
a new company and a lot of celtic fans being conditioned its inevitable,
but it will be ok they will be hampered for years “oh really” anyone who believe this
in my opinion is just as gulliable as the rangers in admin fans who think they will get
a cva, folks this is a club who have been cheating for decades have been favoured
by the establisment ref’s we have governing bodies who wont do what any other
sporting body with integrity would do and kick then out and we are to believe they will be hamstrung? if we buy in to a cheaters charter then expect to be cheated,
folks their is only one way to deal with cheats expulsion.
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 21 May, 2012 at 23:36
I can’t make it this week, too much to do, sorry.
Your post dismays me somewhat, I know the suits will have gambled that the ring as you put it will be finite, but I honestly believe that the ring will grow way, way out of proportion to the suits thinking if they are percieved to do the wrong thing.
We will see soon enough.
It might just take supporters of the likes of Aberdeen, Hibs and D utd to show the way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjx-JepvRXQ
Lambo Screamer
THE EXILED TIM
Aye, I might do that if the league is playing overnight (i.e. sleeping) as I couldn’t watch an accumulator of unders. :))
bournesouprecipe
Of course, we are already on 12 in a row and we didn’t even know it. ;) The next decade we will at least be able to celebrate any Title wins we achieve.
I remember The Battered Bunnet commenting about some real quality Pro Youth players coming through the system in Scotland now and that it augurs well for the future. It is my firm belief that when this stain that is Rangers is dealt with and exposed for what it is, it is then that Scottish football will naturally heal itself. Celtic have consistently shown the way since Fergus arrived but Rangers have been taking Scottish football deeper and deeper into the abyss.
The future is very bright for Celtic Mr BSR, very bright indeed.
correct me if I am wrong but has any rangers player in receipt of an EBT fessed up? (include employee in that) or ever denied the existence of them? This is the rock upon which they will perish!
Expulsion,
That is a word I have not seen recently especially in the MSM,
also contrition, apology, sorry, cheating, gerrymandering, fixing,
manipulation, debt avoidance and general Bill Paying.
stupid huns
Danso1888 ……I agree with you, but for the fact that we must continue to support Celtic to the hilt……the bhuns fate is sealed…they have gone too far, for too long…forget them, they are finished…they have no reputation left, even at this stage….
WE ARE CELTIC SUPPORTERS…….END OF STORY
Good night to all hoops supporters ……and ‘good night’ to the cheating bhuns…
Make no mistake lads, DD has written to the boss of the Irish Indo demanding a retraction and apology about an article last month that was full of whaboutery and that Celtic need R@ngers and the sectarianism was equal ( typical D4 numpty uneducated churnalist that probably loves Manure ). DD owns 5.5% of the paper, waiting to hear if the chourno gets binned! DD refuted all the shite your man said and gave examples of how Celtic have eradicated nearly all of the illicit chants. DD does NOT believe we need R@ngers and is savy enough in business to let them put together enough rope before he kicks open the trapdoor, keep the faith, patience is a virtue. On another note I know prayers are going for poor Niamh Curry and also Oscar Knox but if anyone has any extra prayers my wee man, Conor is back in Crumlin Hosp (Dublin) again, eventually getting treatment for his sleep apnea after nearly a year of fighting for it, I know it’s nothing near waht Niamh & Oscar have suffered but the wee man has come through 9 operations previously on heart and bowels, so hoping this new thing will help him thrive, he’ll be 3 in 6 weeks and wee would love if he starts walking by then
James Forrest
I said earlier measures/conditions that recognise integrity could be found.
That would be in line with what I think you wrote about PL wanting the severest sanctions.
Aye you are hopefully right James, but the masonic influence really bothers me.
Any “normal” club would be gone by now, thay are no normal club,
No other club in the world would have the same influence they posess, and that is not paranoia, it is being shown up warts n all.
Even the great Alex Thommo will not even allow posts about the brotherhood on his blog, I have tried under at least 7 names to ask about their powers, every single post moderated, one lasted all of 2 mins then it was gone.
Just ask yourself how many anti brotherhood programmes have you ever seen on the TV, very few all things considered.
It’s all hidden in plain sight.
I pray to god good will prevail.
……………………..
Nytol
Good blog tonight.
Take care and god bless Timland
HH
KTF
Auld Neil Lennon heid on 21 May, 2012 at 23:36
I take from that post that some of those you have spoken with agree with the philosophy pontificated by the chairman of Kilmarnock inasmuch as commercial concerns are more important than moral concerns. I disagree.
If I understand you correctly you are saying that with Celtic having been seen to have opposed the inclusion of a newco – but failed in their objective due to lack of support – you would still be lenient to the inclusion of a newco in the SPL with certain sanctions applied. Those certain sanctions would no doubt be to your satisfaction; maybe a 25 point deduction every season for three season and only 50% of prize money accrued actually handed over. Somebody else might be like minded only he is more amicable towards the newco and only ask that they be deducted ten points per season for three seasons and no accrued prize money withheld. Me on the other hand might to wish to see us perennially hump the huns but for talkings sake, I’m not as forgiving and I would be vehemently opposed to their inclusion unless they are deducted 50 points for 5 seasons and no prize money allowed at all, and all their games to be played on black ash and with a mould master too and no ralgex either.
It doesn’t (or shouldn’t) work that way. Compromise is subjective and dangerous; It will most likely turn brother on brother.
There must be an in-place set of categorical and unequivocal set of rules and regulations – fully transparent – that is not conducive to manipulation or bastardisation to favour a favourite. There is no other way, personal compromise considerations is the road to conflict and acrimonious division between the all the member clubs and all the different supporters from all the effected clubs.
The rule book is the rule book and should be applied to all by the letter. That is transparency, it is also what clubs and supporters sign up to.
We have wanted this Beast destroyed for so long that now, as it writhes in its death throes,.. shamed, despised & mocked, we still fear that it can somehow be saved & returned to its former position of misused power.
We refuse to accept the evidence of our reason & of our senses.
This malignant abuser of its corrupt & contrived hold over us for so long.. IS DEAD.
Still some of us fear that it can be brought back to life.
We have been its victims for so long that we cannot grasp that it is.. no more.
All that is left is for the final, shameful disposal of its putrid remains.
The efforts of those who will try to bring it back to life only provide a macabre black comedy for those of us who are enjoying its demise.
The longer the process takes, the better.
Enjoy the show & cherish the memory of the many decent guys that you wish were here to see it.
‘ Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.’
I posted a day or to back that this is a crisis management operation.
The, admin, msm, football authorities,police and even the ScotStish govt are bound to have had at least discreet contact to consider the implications of the death of Rangers.
I can’t believe that Salmond and his advisors are stupid enough to NOT attempt to manage this to keep the death toll down.
Might be wrong tho
HH
SIALF
wee game to lighten the mood
What song do you think of when you think about the huns?
I’ll kick us off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts
Kilbowie Kelt on 22 May, 2012 at 00:29 said:
This malignant abuser of its corrupt & contrived hold over us for so long.. IS DEAD.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Apparently not according to Doncaster SPL chief executive.
If Celtic play “the huns” next season then the Celtic bored have let everyone down big time. If Celtic do not play the huns next season then there is hope.
The degree of hope being how long until they do if they ever do.
TET
The size of the rings would depend on the severity of the sanctions and measures introduced.
They would be designed to minimise supporters who want reasons not to walk away from walking away.
Was in Malaga today sorting out longer stay in the winter so will catch up in a few months.
THE EXILED TIM, 00:27
He has nothing to do with the posts on his blog and simply anything that they are unsure about gets pulled. Even using Hun won’t get through
it doesn’t matter what the donkey says, my guess is he’s looking for an escape route. What if more than one group claims the ‘newclub’ title?
ranjurz are kaput, alex t’s blog, with characters offering ‘off the radar’ wealth sums them up, ranjurz is now a figure of fun, nobody takes them seriously (including their own support if the 600 for the 1872 march on sunday is to be believed!) and people are no longer taken in with the ‘clubs will die’ guff.
Kitalba
Nope the guy thinks Johnstone was stupid but as far as he is concerned he will turn up regardless,for him that is how he supports Celtic.
We all support the club in our own ways.
On the sanctions the one that would have been the best fit had it looked at the full range of Rangers wrongdoings and not just CWs tenure, was withdrawal of SFA membership.
Funny how the “charges” were split up.
The SFA could/should have stepped on 1st April and declared the game a bogey
New sanctions that are carried out will be better than current ones unused.