Charles Green, like Whyte and Duff & Phelps before him, is asking for admittance to the SPL on the basis that Rangers FC is a distinct entity from its legal identity. While this theory has been strongly advocated by SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, by necessity, if you claim the football benefits of being ‘Rangers’, specifically player registrations, you also inherit Rangers penalties.
Although Rangers clearly won their challenge to Lord Carloway’s 12-month ban on player registration at the Court of Session last month when Lord Glennie referred the matter back to the SFA Appellate Panel, as the full ramification of the decision became clear to Green, who then had an irrevocable contract to buy Rangers or its assets, he floated the idea that he might appeal.
The SFA, correctly, decided not to instruct the Appellate Panel until the 21 day period when an appeal can be raised, which elapses today, has passed, just in case Green tells Lord Glennie he’s got it all wrong.
All this has been terribly confusing, not to mention expensive, for Scottish football, but with yesterday’s news that Rangers have a prima facie case to answer for subverting Scottish football for over a decade, the obstacles before Green are clearly insurmountable. There is reason to believe we can quickly reach some clarity.
The SFA must, without delay, convene the Appellate Panel to consider Lord Glennie’s instructions and apply an appropriate penalty on the various legal and ethereal bodies which claim to be ‘Rangers’. If the Appellate Panel suspend or expel what is left of the football club from the SFA, as must surely be expected, all questions about fan pressure, morals and votes become moot.
In this case, history will record the folly of Green’s appeal to civil law as the act which finally killed off any chance of ‘Rangers’ surviving, conveniently letting the SPL off the hook, while Green would be obliged to dispose of the stadium for a modest return to those capable of forming a genuinely new football club at some point in the future.
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Paul67
I agree this will be resolved in the next week. Driven by (lack of) season ticket sales… Indicating a ‘NO’ vote more likely…
Adam on 19 June, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Someone please give me a simple answer to my friend, not a Rangers or Celtic supporter, as to why Rangers should be punished, in his words “why punish the fans, it wasn’t their fault, it was people in management”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Because the club are bound by the actions of the “people in management”. Even if in the case of RFCIA that is effectively just one person with absolute control, as has been the case for over two decades.
If RFCIA fans were content to celebrate all the positives that resulted from the actions of “people in management” – big name signings, trophies, cup finals, European nights, then they can’t complain when they have to bear the fruits of the misdeeds of these same people…
Paul67, would I be right in saying that if the Appellate convened before 4th July, Rangers could be struck off and therefore would not have a vote at that meeting?
Or to put it another way, by not having the Appellate before then, by inference, SFA / SPL are allowing Rangers to get a vote?
ASonOfDan on 19 June, 2012 at 12:08 said:
Anyone else find it bizarre FPLG has not had one thing to say about all of this. Not like him to keep his fat mouth shut.
________________________________________________________________
…..unless it’s full of pie…….
philvisreturns,
Oh that kind of square …
hamiltontim
Sent some jelly to a Govan ex-pat over here that I have not spoken to for 2 yrs after an ‘incident’ on Facebook when he refused to believe his team were morally and financially bankrupt. He’s been strangely quiet.
ASonofDan
Sally is screaming inside, you know he is.
http://bit.ly/NMtNHQ
Adam @ 12:11 – ask him why the staff and clients of Woolworths who had done nothing wrong should have been punished by all those shops closing .
Paul67
How can it be concluded prior to July 4th if the SPL have said that no decision will be made on punishments related to dual contracts until after the vote?
Dropped to Div 1 is my guess
Is that field in Ayrshire called Irvine Meadow?
Adam – 2 reasons.
1) The fans turned a blind eye, even when the evidence was so overwhelming. The irony here is it’s Celtic supporters who brought this whole charade to light and that lot just chose not too listen. Cheating towards one club from a complicit governance and media has been rife for decades. It just so happens that the last decade has finally caught them out.
2) Their “fans” have enjoyed the fruits of their cheating for decades, while all other fans have suffered both financially and emotionally. In essence we’ve paid doubly for their enjoyment. It’s now time they took their medicine and be done with it.
Cowpats would have to be renamed cowbillys.
Who writes those huns’ statements? I hope they don’t get paid for it because that would be a fail at school level. Awful grammar, never mind all of teh factual inaccuracies.
A lawyer friend of mine sent his musings on the SPL vote on July 4th and I thought I’d share it ……..
Have done some digging into the SPL arts. with another similarly-minded solicitor in here, bear with me a bit:
I noted with some interest that Art. 13(i) states that the member clubs MUST refuse an application to transfer an SPL share if it cannot be shown that the share will be transferred to someone who will be the owner/operator of a Club.
The definition of a “Club” (Art. 2) is basically a football club that is entitled under the Rules to play in the League.
One of the stipulations of entitlement to play in the League (Rule A2.5.1) is that the Club is a member of the SFA.
So far as I’m led to believe Sevco, who will be the transferee and therefore must be a “Club” is not a member of the SFA and therefore cannot be a “Club” in terms of the Arts. of Assoc. and Rules and Regulations. Art 13(i) is basically a mandatory requirement that the application MUST be refused if the transferee is not a Club. Ipso jure, The Rangers’ application must fail.
Unless there’s some jiggery-pokery going on of course, but that couldn’t be possible, eh? ;)
CultsBhoy loves being 1st forever & ever:
I’m a Celtic Supporter who wants to see Celtic compete in a hard and fair league; domination does not really feature high in my lexicon.
I don’t mind losing a cup or two as long as we win the leagues we deserve.
(Cheeks bulging)
Adam,
If it needs explaining, just tell them that the fans are collateral damage, due to the misdeeds of the club that they support.
Many innocent people are dying all over the world, due to the actions of their governments and others.
Celtic First,from the last thread.
The abuser, in your analogy, also threatens to come after his victim, should she not agree to condone his abuse.
While I’m here, it is not clubs’ viability that will determine how they will vote.
For many it will be the desire to answer thw call of distress from a brother.
That bond is what has underpinned that club throughout the last century, ad it supercedes all other considerations to some.
How many will answer the call, is the question.
Adam
why should a fan of any team suffer relegation ? it wasn’t the fans fault they finished bottom of the league.
Adam on 19 June, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Someone please give me a simple answer to my friend, not a Rangers or Celtic supporter, as to why Rangers should be punished, in his words “why punish the fans, it wasn’t their fault, it was people in management”
=====
“We deserve better” said the fans and the management obliged.
I’m still of the opinion that there will be no newco playing in the 2012/13 season at any level. They will return in 2013/14 in the second or third tier of a restructured league under the control of the SFA who will merge the SPL/SFL into one organisation.
goldstar10 on 19 June, 2012 at 11:37 said:
Posted by weeJamsieF on Twitter, check these few minutes of idiotic ramblings and whataboutery by James McMillan of RSA.
It never fails to amaze me the halfwits who head their supporters groups.
John Beattie’s closing words says it all.
http://m.soundcloud.com/#/jinkylarsson/john-mcmillan-rsa-getting
_____________________________________________________________
I once posted that I thought Mr McMillan was about the only hun who conducted himself with dignity.
I take it all back. What a total Wancar.
Coisty in happier times:
Rangers boss Ally McCoist: We will defeat Celtic in Old Firm derby
Dec 28 2011 By Craig Swan
BULLISH Ally McCoist last night made his boldest prediction as Rangers boss ahead of tonight’s Old Firm crunch and roared: “We WILL win.”
McCoist heads to Parkhead knowing defeat against Celtic will see his side slip two points behind their biggest rivals at the top of the SPL having led by 15 less than two months ago.
But fear or contemplation of a negative result did not even enter the gaffer’s head as he made his startling statement on the eve of the game.
McCoist said: “I do believe we will win the game, absolutely.
“We have the players to win and it’s as simple as that. I have great belief in the boys here.
“Make no mistake about it, it’s a very tough place to go. But I see us winning the game.”
Rangers 187X – 2012, requiescat in pace. (thumbsup)
Adam
A quick post and then I must run
I agree with Paul’s summation. Rangers fans have not been punished. Rangers fans, well the SB holders anyway, register as afficianados of the Rangers club, but they do not register with the SPL or SFA. If fans do wrong, the SFA or SPL cannot ban them from games, only the police and courts can do so. But they can instruct the clubs to improve fan behaviour by enforcing closed door games. They can punish Rangers fan behaviour by inflicting a sanction on Rangers FC/plc
I have no doubt that Rangers fans feel they have been punished but their punishment is indirect not direct. They are like the wife of a murderer who must now go on without their loved partner because the authorities have punished him. SFA & SPL have and will levy punishments on the Member club which has done wrong and only on the member club.
Finally, Rangers fans and their players and management staff are not as innocent as they like to portray themselves. They gloried in their excess spending and demanded more of it. They bought into the “for every tenner…” slogan. They complained and agitated for more spending if clubs looked like closing the gap on their dominance. They rallied round Walter Smith’s whispering campaign to loosen the grip of Lloyd’s Bank from their Treasury and allow them to spend again.
To continue the Murderer’s wife analogy, they never did anything to calm the rage of Rangers FC/plc, their distorted perceptions, nor their uncontrollable urges. They never questioned, they never showed due care, and they never offered to have a quieter less successful life by being honest and lawful.
Must go now.
Why should fans suffer their team losing a game just because of the actions of the players and management?
All games should therefore end as draws. (thumbsup)
Adam on 19 June, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Someone please give me a simple answer to my friend, not a Rangers or Celtic supporter, as to why Rangers should be punished, in his words “why punish the fans, it wasn’t their fault, it was people in management”
—————————
The fans won’t be punished the club will. Just like the fans didn’t employ the players with EBTs, the club did. And the fans didn’t win the trophies, the club did. And the fans didn’t get the prize money, the club did.
”23] I should only add this. Mr O’Neill’s argument that the construction of the Articles and the Protocol at which I have arrived deprives the Tribunal of the power to impose a penalty which is both effective and proportionate, is not necessarily shared by the Appellate Tribunal. They concluded their reasons by saying this:
“Although the Appellate Tribunal agreed with the Disciplinary Tribunal that termination, suspension of membership would have been excessive, it made that assessment in the context of the availability of competent lesser sanctions such as the one actually imposed. Were that option not to have been available, suspension might have had to be considered appropriate for such serious misconduct, which has brought the game into disrepute.”
I need not mention the other matters to which they refer. I simply refer to that passage to suggest that Mr O’Neill’s argument that on the construction which I prefer the tribunal’s powers are either insufficient or excessive is not necessarily correct; and to point out that the fact that I find the imposition of the additional sanctions to be ultra vires does not necessarily mean that the petitioners will escape to a lighter and ineffective punishment. That is entirely a matter for the Appeal Tribunal and not for this court.”
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2012CSOH%2095.html
Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
Adam on 19 June, 2012 at 12:11 said:
Someone please give me a simple answer to my friend, not a Rangers or Celtic supporter, as to why Rangers should be punished, in his words “why punish the fans, it wasn’t their fault, it was people in management”
………………………………………………………………….
Tell your friend that due to the actions of RFC’s management fans of other clubs suffered. We paid season ticket money for years not knowing that we were being cheated due to RFC not paying taxes and being able to buy more expensive players. When he raises the point again and says ‘but We are The Peepil’ just say, “Aw diddums.”.
Adam on 19 June, 2012 at 12:11 said:
”Someone please give me a simple answer to my friend, not a Rangers or Celtic supporter, as to why Rangers should be punished, in his words “why punish the fans, it wasn’t their fault, it was people in management”
The fans were the main beneficiary of the cheating.
The Zombies have a new cunning plan…
The above Company was incorporated on 11 October 1994, with a registered office at 24 Great King Street, Edinburgh.
This Company subsequently changed its name on became “The Celtic Football and Athletic Company Limited” and currently trades as Celtic Football Club.
So let us start the campaign that as the old Company folded in 1994 and was replaced by this Company, that all trophies, including the big jug, won before 1994 be stripped from their official records.
The Company that Liewell runs has a very very proud history going back all of 18 years and has won 7 titles, 6 scottish cups and 5 league cups.
Pass this info around every bear you know, get on the phone-ins and let us ensure the gloating fans of Pacific Shelf 595 Limited that we are not the first to think about a change of name, and that it doesnt necessarily mean that previous history is lost.
Paul67,
Wouldn’t it just be the most delicious irony if the man who has put the final nail in their coffin was named Green? Of course, he ably abetted by yon Whyte chappie.
WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED.
Hello people,..is anyone else having trouble accessing Phil macs latest piece?? or is it just me.
kitalba – The Zombies have a new cunning plan…
I LOLed.
Reality is a painful thing to wrap one’s brain around for huns. (thumbsup)
Old Co Rangers Relegated at end of season 2011/12
Rangers Lose SPL Place to Dunfermline
4 July Chairmen’s New Co Vote Now Irrelevant
Rangers finished the last season with 73 points after their 10 point administration deduction.
Sasa Papac who was named among the EBT recipients and must therefore be part of the “dual contract club” played in 20 games in the season during which Rangers amassed 47 points. When these results are overturned Rangers will end on 26 points.
Dunfermline, the until now relegated club, ended on 25 points.
You may think close but no cigar.
However……. they lost 6 points to Rangers in games where Papac participated and when these changes are reflected they will have 31 points.
As a consequence Rangers will be relegated and lose their SPL place even before the Chairmen’s vote.
I think!
philvisreturns on 19 June, 2012 at 12:36 said:
especially when you’re a bit short of the ole’ wrapping paper.
Lunchtime
Ole Greggs don’t do Mr Kipling cakes but they make exceedingly good fakes
There is nothing for Naegers to retain.
There is nowhere for Naegers to get back into.
As a new entity how can you retain something you’ve never had before?How can you return to somewhere you’ve never been before?
When rankers are finally liquidated whatever comes next will not be a phoenix since that would imply continuity.
What comes next wiill have no history, no trophies and no experience of playing football in any league.
Frankenstein’s monster or any self respecting zombie would have more tradition and history than whatever strange beast slouches towards Aye Broke to be born. ( Apologies to Willie Yeats )
embramike on 19 June, 2012 at 12:24 said:
I am sure there was a link to a reply from Reagan to the CelticTrust on the Web page where they had asked if membership of the SPL gives automatic membership of the SFA. He confirmed that it did.
From CU twitter –
@celticrumours: Just had Rodallega shot down from high up at Celtic. Agent trying to generate interest in player. Was fed false info.
HH
Adam,
The fans are being punished because no-one likes them. Fortunately, they don’t care, so no harm done.