The proposed SFA rule change, that clubs must conduct an investigation into prospective new owners, went through unopposed at the Association’s AGM, currently underway at Hampden. No formal rules must be observed during this investigation, not even the ‘Gandhi criminal rule’ postulated by (still) SPL chief executive, Neil Doncaster, so a club can look into the matter as deeply as they see appropriate and the former owner can claim he was “duped” after the money appears in his bank account.
This does not strengthen efforts to keep unfit people from owning Scottish clubs, if anything, it provides errant clubs with a defence. Previously it was explicitly the club’s responsibility to ensure owners were fit and proper, now the club’s responsibility is limited to carrying out an unspecified value judgement. Tune in soon to hear “We carried out an investigation consistent with best practice, why punish us?”
In this instance, value judgements are worth as much as Ibrox valuations. It’s not the rules that are wrong, the only problem is one club didn’t respect the rules and doesn’t like the medicine.
No mention yet of the dark Fifa cloud hanging over the Association. Perhaps it’s slipped their mind.
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Let’s wait and see what sentence the appeal tribunal hands down to Rangers before we get upset about them not being punished for going to court.
A 12-month suspension from the SFA will be worse than a transfer embargo. FIFA will be happy if the new punishment is more severe than the original one.
Toneloc @9:47
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You’ve got me wrong m8.
What I want to see, and I’ll be as straight as I can about this…
I want to see us taking the bull by the horns for a change.
Johnny Russell – ticks the box for me. And, a COUPLE of decent CH’s. Not players who are ready to go out to graze. Nobody wants to follow the huns route to oblivion but, c’mon. I think that Celtic supporters deserve to see ‘OUR’ money being used in an, imaginative way. It’s not the bored’s money!
Iam not a plant – CSC
KevJungle – “1st Flag on the JUNGLE roof for LENNON’S LION’S” on 7 June, 2012 at 09:42 said:
Absolutely scunnered wi all these hun extinction deadlines.
All i want to know is…WHEN can I bring the ice-cream oot the fridge ?
Start by taking your head oot yir erse…..
Celtic do what is right ,no sky deal. no more joint sponserships .cant understand why we cant attract a big sponser.something not right there.also tell S F A We intend to move to another league ,if that is possible,failing that boycott all away fixtures this coming season. this is the right way to go .then we will see panic set in.no celtic no football in this country.
Naw just a plank….
KevJungle,
“Now watch for an, endless stream of – Bosmans, Free’s, Cheapo-type of player being brought in”
Along the lines of say – Charlie Mulgrew, Adam Matthews, Joe Ledley, Beram Kayal? Yes, please!
MJM
Fin75 on 7 June, 2012 at 10:03 said:
Start by taking your head oot yir erse…..
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Yeah, you first.
hamiltontim on 7 June, 2012 at 10:01 said:
Brilliant my birthday!!
OK I’ll rephrase it…we’ll all like to pull the trigger, ….BUT!!
I don’t think Regan stepped over a line last night……bear with me before you reach for the CQN club revolver and point it at me.
He said that Ogilvie had given a full account of his role at Rangers during the period that EBT’s were operated. The fact that Ogilvie had an EBT is not in itself sufficient cause for him to resign or be forced out
I am prepared to take Regan at his word when he says he has seen no evidence that suggests Ogilvie had an illegal EBT. Mark Daly confirmed that there was no side letter , that he saw , with regards to Ogilvie.
What I am also prepared to accept from Regan , is that Ogilvie plays no part whatsoever in the current decision making over Rangers. Regan may not say exactly ,what those who are desperate for Rangers to be suspended or terminated, want to hear. However his job is to play it straight. He cannot adopt a predetermined position.
That’s exactly why Celtic supporters were so hostile to Peat . He had an agenda, that he made no attempt to hide. Gordon Smith was equally on a highly visible path where he marched in perfect step with Peat. They were joined by Dallas , and now mercifully they are all gone.
Regan has a duty not to prejudge Rangers or to influence in favour of Rangers. Doncaster could learn much from following this path.
Back to Ogilvie,
He also must be adjudged innocent until proven guilty. Should his signature appear on any Rangers players contract that was submitted to the SFA, then he has some questions to answer.
1. Were you aware of any side letters, or financial commitments to players , in relation to contracts that you signed
2. Did you ask David Murray whether the contracts you were signing on behalf of Rangers included all financial obligations to the player
3. Did David Murray provide you with an answer to point 2
4 if he did was the answer Yes or No
Now , and bear with me, the only correct sequence of answers which could possibly keep Ogilvie in the clear is :
No
Yes
Yes
No
Anything other than that and Ogilvie is guilty. Regan will only be guilty if he fails to ask Ogilvie those four questions.
hamiltontim on 7 June, 2012 at 10:04 said:
Naw just a plank….
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Any fool can be tough behind a keyboard.
KevJungle – “1st Flag on the JUNGLE roof for LENNON’S LION’S” on 7 June, 2012 at 10:05
Ouch…..cutting and straight to the point.
**tumbleweed**
Tom McLaughlin@10:01
‘Let’s wait and see what sentence the appeal tribunal hands down to Rangers before we get upset about them not being punished for going to court.
A 12-month suspension from the SFA will be worse than a transfer embargo. FIFA will be happy if the new punishment is more severe than the original one’
Agree with you on this. They will regret appealing their 12 month transfer embargo
Liar…
KevJungle – “1st Flag on the JUNGLE roof for LENNON’S LION’S” on 7 June, 2012 at 09:36
Now watch for an, endless stream of ……..
Urine streaming from you……you speak with forked tounge….
Some posts last night on the sad vandalism of the James Stokes V.C memorial , I came across this explanation of how he ended up in the army:
‘On the outbreak of war, Stokes followed his elder brother George into the army, enlisting into Royal Artillery on 20th July 1940. He seems to have had a varied service career: he spent some time in the Royal Army Service Corps (52 Drivers’ Training Unit) before passing into the Gloster Regiment in October 1943. Though he stood only 5 feet 4 inches tall, Stokes was said to have “a temper out of all proportion to his stature” and had learned street fighting the hard way. On leave in 1944, he became involved in a brawl in a Glasgow dance hall after a perceived insult to his wife. The fight left one man in a wheelchair and Stokes in prison. Sentenced to three years for grievous bodily harm, he was offered the chance of release into the infantry and then (according to the Transfer Books of the Kings Shropshire Light Infantry) went into the Royal Warwicks, from which he was posted to the 2nd KSLI in October 1944.’
A very brave man whose memory should be celebrated, not desecrated.
hamiltontom 10:03 nearly choked on my brandy. Very good. Agents duff and duffer , green and whyte have done a sterling job in stealing everything not concreted in. Think they can sell iborcs to the GCC for a new wastewater treatment plant. The bog house should stay open.
Baku/Black Isle Celt on 7 June, 2012 at 10:05 said:
“Now watch for an, endless stream of – Bosmans, Free’s, Cheapo-type of player being brought in”
Along the lines of say – Charlie Mulgrew, Adam Matthews, Joe Ledley, Beram Kayal? Yes, please!
___________________________________________
Adam Matthews
Beram Kayal
Yes.
________
Charlie Mulgrew – Myth
Joe Ledley – disappears to easily
KevJungle
Nothing hard about it mate I was merely expressing my opinion in the same manner that you are free to do.
My opinion remains, you’re a liar.
medtim @ 09.07
I have also been wondering about the SPL’s “investigation ” into the sectarian singing on 18th February. I suggest you send an email to: enquiries@scotprem.com
I would take the comments attributed to FFs agent with a pinch of salt this morning.
He knows exactly what Celtic are willing to pay wages wise for Fraser. And a good wage it is too
What he wants for his client is a ridiculous salary considering his limited career so far
His comments are classic ‘agent speak’. If/when the talks break down again, he will try and shift the blame to PL hence the quotes this morning
If FF had a decent agent, he would be a Celtic player already
hamiltontim on 7 June, 2012 at 10:12 said:
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You’ve lost me ?
What is this ‘liar’ about ?
I am NL in NZ Tauranga on 7 June, 2012 at 10:11 said:
They’re a modern day version of Fagan.
Starry
That’s like those who claim that they’re only 8 because their birthday falls on February 29th. Yer just tryin’ to make yersel younger :-))
Hamiltontim, maybe he just has a bad memory?!!!
Hasn’t Ogilvie been decsribed as a great administrator and all round good and decent guy?
So, he was at Rangers for all those years and didn’t know what was going on?
He was at Rangers all those years when they operated a sectarian signing policy?
Yeah, a great and decent guy indeed.
Headtheball on 7 June, 2012 at 10:17 said: Headtheball on 7 June, 2012 at 10:17 said:
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The thing is….what can we do about it ?
Hamiltontim
Are you there ?
headtheball Gerry Adams sat down with Ian Paisley and they stopped bombing children. Lets see what happens in the next few weeks. Ogilvie could well be rangers till july. liquidation day.
Off oot
If anyone see’s HT…
Tell him I said “Hi.”
Hail Hail
laters…
Tom McLaughlin
You’re correct.
If Regan has told FIFA that thems are likely to get a suspension from competing, why would FIFA be unhappy about that?
In this event, the huns will have been punished severely through a process initiated by the SFA to examine thems misdeeds (the decision of the COS will then be largely irrelevant).
Sion were challenging their sacking from the Europa League and the local courts kept telling UEFA to reinstate the club in the competition. By referring to Sion, we are not comparing like with like. Rankers are not challenging the decision to punish them (yet). Sion were!
Of course, if the revised punishment is only expulsion from the Scottish Cup plus a fine, then we are talking an entirely different game.
I’m afraid we’re in another wait and see game and it is frustrating for us good ghuys.
I just wonder (dreaming again) if Celtic continue to say nowt then, as the strormy waves are finally beginning to calm, the club announce that we are moving to play elsewhere far away from the corruption which is scottish football.
HH
Morning fholks. Sorry if this has been covered but I almost spat my coffee out this morning when I heard Stewart Regan explaining how Campbell Ogilvie remains unconflicted in his role as President while the GA are under investigation for improperly registering players.
He is conflicted because he received payments through the same scheme which is being investigated. He is more conflicted, however, because he was a Director of Rangers during the period in which their players were registered.
Did he ever register players with the SPL or SFA during any period of his directorship? Remember, the SPL investigation goes back to 1998, apparently pre-dating the EBT era. If not, how much did he know about it? If he didn’t know about the registration of players (a crucial area of corporate governance and diligence which allows the company to derive maximum benefit from the use of its assets) why didn’t he know about this area of the business? He was company secretary! Did he know what the EBT payments, lodged in the accounts signed by him as Company Secretary, related to, who they went to, why, when, and how? Did he know whether these payments differed from the amounts stated in the SPL or SFA contracts? If not, why not? He was Company Secretary!
All of the above have been covered before, but it occurs to me there may be a different element to his conflict of interest which touches on him financially as much as it does on his professional reputation. How much of his salary or bonus, paid through the EBT, was paid in relation to his performance in ensuring Rangers completed player registrations for key signing targets? How much of it was paid for ensuring Rangers profitted from player sales? How much of those profits derived from the increase in perceived market value of those players resulting from their performances in SFA licenced competitions with Rangers?
There are a staggering number of confilcts for Campbell Ogilvie in this issue. To simply state he is “not involved in the investigation” is not good enough. Justice must be done and must be seen to be done. Caesar’s wife must be unimpeachable.
KevJungle
Last week you posted making reference to the fact that the GB were not renewing their season tickets until they had a measure of reassurance from PL on how Celtic would react to a newco being admitted immediately back into the SPL.
In reply I posted the statement from the GB where they clearly stated that they would be renewing and that they were encouraging everyone who sits in section111 at Parkhead to do the same.
You replied to my post saying that you were disappointed in this development as you were of the opinion that the GB had the ‘baws’ to stand up to Celtic and PL in particular. We then discussed this over 4/5 posts and left it at that.
You can imagine my surprise when reading through posts from the other day, I think Monday or Tuesday, that I see you claiming again that the GB have refused to renew their season tickets until they have assurances from Celtic. At this point Mort and one or two others point out that the GB have in fact renewed and that it was done the previous week.
You then reply stating apologies and thanks because you were not aware of this!!!
Now to me that makes you either one of 2 things….
1) a liar
or
2) an individual with the attention span of a fish.
You choose….
Ten Men Won The League @ 10:08 and
Tom McLaughlin@10:01
‘Let’s wait and see what sentence the appeal tribunal hands down to Rangers before we get upset about them not being punished for going to court.
A 12-month suspension from the SFA will be worse than a transfer embargo. FIFA will be happy if the new punishment is more severe than the original one’
Agree with you on this. They will regret appealing their 12 month transfer embargo
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Totally agree bhoys – let’s wait until the decision is made and then make a measured response either way. Speculation just raises the old blood pressure again.
HH
It was to be Rangers till January, then end of March, then April when the BTC was supposed to hit, then it was the end of the season. Now we are well into June and they are still kicking. The fixtures will be out in a few weeks and they will be in the mix I’m sure.
I’m a real doom merchant this morning..sorry!
KevJungle – “1st Flag on the JUNGLE roof for LENNON’S LION’S” on 7 June, 2012 at 10:07
Not sure what you are on – aggressive confrontational argumentative – and more importantly – you have nothing to say that’s of any interest
Your opinion is worth the same as everybody else on this blog – but civility cost nothing
67ECW
the real Rangers story is the financial one, and what a can of worms that is. The (possible) punishments from the SFA/SPL etc are just a sideshow.
Headtheball.
They don’t satisfy the criteria for an SPL licence. They have been provided with a period of grace until 15th June to lodge audited accounts to December 2011 showign that they are up to date with all payments to social tax bodies. They can’t lodge those accounts. I don’t see how they can be in the fixture list. That’s if the rules are applied.
The last sentence substantially dilutes the confidence expressed in the rest of my post…
Barcabhoy-Ogilvie allegedly introduced EBT’s to Hearts,did he have one there too?.Has the question been asked ?HH.