I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.
There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.
The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.
I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something. I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years. It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.
But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.
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Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:
* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.
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BRT&H
It was your earlier post that prompted my question. You sounded beaten!
MWD
TET
Boycotts will only work if you can convince people to do it. These are not the same circumstances (I speak as a boycotter).
I don’t think the majority of invested supporters would boycott. If that’s right then it’s the wrong tactic…
JF
The media will ignore a boycott at Motherwell, Kilmarnock or Perth.
TV coverage won’t even make a reference to it.
Fans will watch at home and the broadcasters will be happy.
Celtic fans will not stay away from Aberdeen, Tynecastle, Easter Road or Ibrox.
We can’t withdraw from the SPFL but we can either refuse to participate in the Scottish Cup or field a weakened or youth side.
The tournament will suffer, the broadcasters will lose viewers and the sponsors will lose money, something which will force them to bring pressure on bungling bureaucrats.
THE EXILED TIM on 24TH JULY 2017 9:48 PM
Celts for change was a picnic compared to this fight. We’re up against 12 PLC’s this time, not just one.
Very defeatest attitude on CQN.
I will argue and fight on.
No wonder we get shafted.
I refuse to believe the majority of Celtic supporters will submit to the corruption of the SFA/HUNS, if we do, we deserve to be treated like slaves.
Its simple as that.
Stand up, or bend over.
That is the only choice.
HH
OGLACH @ 8:27 PM,
Well I think it’s wrong to ask for an Independent, fair and impartial Review, then preempt it’s findings – but I’m going to do just that:)
Also it depends on the Scope of the Review.
If the Football Hierarchy and Authorities eventually show leadership and Commission a Review I think it would be limited to the Supreme Court EBT decision.
Now this could lead to a few outcomes, including upholding the LNS Commission.
More likely if it was fair and impartial it would find illegal side Payments and Wrongly Registered Players.
Now this could lead to making all Rangers Results when they played these players null and void. Effectively removing 10+ Seasons of Rangers results.
It could also if the Review was to decide this was tantamount to match fixing bring serious Charges and draconian Sanctions against Rangers.
As the SFA and SPL insist it’s the same Club, you would imagine a Properly Constituted Review will be properly briefed and not come up with Owner and Operator No 1 of Ethereal Entity and Owner and Operator No 2 of Same Ethereal Entity. Therefore the Sanctions will fall on Sevco Rangers.
So as well as Oldco loosing the titles you could find Newco being find &/or Suspended &/or given a Player Embargo.
I think if Independent Legal action (by fans groups say) or a Crowd funded Judicial Review was brought to bear we could see a much wider Scope.
Including an overview of the DOS/EBT/FFP implications
The Independent SFA LNS Inquiry and subsequent Disciplinary procedures, where Stewart Regan was on the Panel (The SFA CEO) so not Independent. That made Craig Whyte the escaped goat and botched the Sanctions on Rangers.
The five way agreement, where the SFA and SPL ignored both the Spirit and Letter of their Rules to Allow Sevco to Carry on as the Liquidated Rangers. To allow the Club in effect to dump it’s debt and indemnified the Club over past malfeasance.
The SPL LNS Commission, that seemed to Briefed by third parties outwith the SPL Board, that failed to consider properly some fundamental aspects of its Commissioning, i.e. The EBT payments, the Sporting Intergrity/Advantage issues and placed different constructs to some of the issues it did Consider i.e. The Incorrect Registration of Players and the Constitution of a Club. It’s failure to allow the EBT issue to be examined further if there were (the predicted) future appeals by HMRC and failure to facilitate a proper appeals process to the SFA the Appellate Authority.
This could go all the way to CAS lead to the Continuity Myth been broken and the null and voiding of matches and titles. Could still lead to some draconian Sanctions also.
So guess I’m also going on number 4;)
Hail Hail
INVINCIBLE ‘GG:
Maybe I’ve not been clear, let me try to be.
http://onfieldsofgreen.com/an-away-game-boycott-can-move-the-spfl-if-all-fans-get-behind-it/
In that piece, which I posted earlier today, the suggestion was that fans of ALL clubs work together to pick a weekend on the card where EVERY away club’s fans co-ordinate a boycott together. Some fans will not play ball, but even a 30% drop in total away support on that day would be a minor miracle.
If that campaign was being co-ordinated, as a Supporters Day Of Action there is NO WAY the media would ignore it … they couldn’t. They would cover it just so they could knock it if failed, and if it succeeded it would be the biggest sports story in Europe that weekend and they would have no choice but to cover it.
I agree, a boycott of an individual ground, by an individual club, is a bust. It won’t move us forward one inch. But something on the scale I’m talking about, even if it only covered the top two divisions, it would get it done.
Difficult to organise. A one shot deal if it fails. But nothing else will work. Every other process is too slow. Sponsors won’t lean on individual clubs to the extent we need … fans are still the life blood of the game. Cut that off and clubs WILL reform or die.
It’ll never come to one dying. They’ll wise up LONG before that point is reached.
If it’s not already in place a long war strategy should be adopted to fight this sporting integrity injustice.
By the time the SPL statement is read, obviously, there should be a strong counter statement prepared.
At the very least the SPL PLC’s should realise this much: We havent gone away you know.
Any boycott or protest that requires support not attending any games won’t work, too many will ignore. A more effective response would be to hit the authorities in the pocket, boycott using companies who sponsor Scottish football and bombard them with the reason why supporters are being encouraged to desist from using their products.
A wee list to get started.
http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish_football.cfm?page=3305
The negative publicity, let alone any drop in turnover, would be enough for them to think about pulling out.
My boycott tuppence worth – I would target Les Gray’s Hamilton Accies game.
8th September 19:45 on BT Sports (with Sutty commentating) – Friday nights that have been getting good viewing figures UK wide.
5/6 weeks to organise and orchestrate a boycott (or threat of one).
Ground already has an empty end (the double-decker) and CFC always get the full stand behind the other goal = TV impact.
Relatively small number of tickets allocated to CFC = smaller numbers to discourage.
An entire weekend of SMSM coverage that cannot be ignored – wee club suffers (whilst ignoring that they still get their TV fee) at the hands of big bad Celtic Supporters. Interestingly I believe the story would be picked up by many Media sources outwith Scotland – I’m guessing they would go with a ‘David .v. Goliath’ slant.
More importantly – it might turnover a rock that exposes the goings-on to a wider audience.
SIONNACH ABU:
It’s been five years since LNS brother, if they haven’t put the cork in the bottle yet they’ve got to realise they’re never going to. I guarantee we’ll not be in this impasse in five years time. The Rubicon has been crossed here; this is a red letter moment, you can see it. Fans have had it.
Everyone knows rangers cheated and during that time i paid a hell of a lot of money going to games, i was cheated as a celtic supporter and as a football supporter. If the spfl try to sweep sweep and celtic allow this to pass without challenge my season ticket will not be used this season and will not be renewed again, celtic may struggle to force change but I expect the condemnation of those involved in cover ups and sweep sweep, don’t know how I would feel without celtic in my life but I will find out, I fear the worst anday it’s depressing
Today Rod Petrie announced that there would be a review of the LNS farce. We then have a well known Sevco media cheerleader post on Twitter that he had information that the review announced only minutes earlier was already concluded. As a result of this Celtic are being lambasted on here.
Celtic have said nothing so far because there is nothing to say. When the statement is issued on Wednesday then we will see if Celtic are prepared to do the right thing. When they have actually done something to get angry about then we can all scream and shout for a reason. Until then let’s not get carried away on the world of a BBC so called journalist.
PRAECEPTA:
A good call, as one specific game goes … if the following day fans of other clubs followed suit we could be the lead-off hitter and set the tone. If our fans played the game that might be the jolt for others to do the same. As you say, there’s plenty of time to get that one done.
And yeah, the symoblism of targeting an SPFL board member’s club … perfect.
THE GREEN MAN SAYS SACK THE BOARD on 24TH JULY 2017 10:01 PM
I hope you lead by example, it will be a long hard fight to see the slow wheels of justice begin to turn.
HH
Bit of chat on the pros and cons of boycotts.
One of the most successful boycotts in recent times was one that its participants were largely unaware that they were taking part in.
Fourteen or so months ago, in the wake of a couple of turgid campaigns under Ronny, sales of Celtic season tickets were sluggish to say the least.
Lo and Behold and even Behold and Lo. Needing to do something to rectify matters, DD acquired a quality managers to remedy problem.
As for present matters. Paul 67s next article may indicate the way that CP wind is blowing.
QUONNO:
By the way, that’s an excellent point mate.
I’m a Celtic Supporter,and I will follow them till the day I die,I will not boycott,any games,
TIMBHOY1:
That’s your choice, and as such I’m sure you’ll be afforded the proper respect by your club and the other clubs, and the governing bodies. They rely on that attitude. They love guys like you.
But that respect I talked about? Don’t look for it, not from them.
Because they do NOT respect guys like you, and they never will.
MOONBEAMSWD @ 9:55 PM,
Well that was my thought and as BRT&H has more access to what’s going on and has been involved in the collecting and presenting of evidence and has been to various meetings and has had correspondence with those Involved it doesn’t bode well.
Also the BBC report doesn’t give you faith in these folk to do the right thing…
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40707999
Rod Petrie Review is the SPFL Board sitting down and chewing the fat… not what I suspect Celtic or the rest of us would call a Review. Still it’s more that the SPL Board done with the LNS Commission.
Ann Budge “…We’ve got to keep looking forward and doing what’s best for Scottish Football…”
Looking forward eh! You get the feeling what she thinks is best for Scottish Football is not what the fans think.
As for Alloa’s Mike Mulraney “My thoughts would be addressed by the SFA statement because as you know I sit on the SFA board and that would be my collective view.
“The SFA had to make a statement and they have done so. We take the best legal advice and that’s where the statement came from.”
Pathetic Really…
Hail Hail
53,000 Scooby doos….will need to go…off oot …
from, Celtic Park…..or, this compendium of cheating…
will, forever be thus.
And aye, yeez ur Scooby doos…..
Almost a decade of warnings,…..from me…
about, just exactly what yeez are dealing with…
from within Celtic Park…..who’s listening noo, eh.
Its simple……
Stay out of Celtic Park and, yeez will be rid of…
yer first rung of the, deceitful corruption….
The Celtic PLC Board….
Brendan’s a pawn but, if he’s a willing pawn then…..
he’s part of the deceit and, sadly, he also has to go.
Ye see, for me, Celtic Football Club were, imho….
Always, a way of life….
Supported by, rebellious Fenians who never, intentionally…
sat at the back of the bus, a club that grabbed life’s underdogs…
by the ear and, gave you a dynamic force to identify with…
they filled you with a pride, a resolve that got ye over life’s…
hurdles, setbacks, tragedies and, gave you this identity that…
marked you out as a Tim, an unrepentant Tim…
Ah mean, the example, yer name would be called out on…
the staff roll call, and you could see the evil bitterness on the faces…
of huns at works, that let ye know the down, or, how the land lay….
Fenian JUNGLE Pride was the driver for me…..
Now you’ve got the Cellic, run by Tory billionaires, putting you at the back..
of the bus, expecting you to look the other way from….
25 years of Murray Mibbery ???
Ach, its just so sad.
What can ye do ?
I’ve telt yeez since MO’N walked, get rid of, the biggest cheats of….
the Celtic supporters…the PLC hierarchy….just do it….
Celtic will die if yeez don’t.
That,…..is how serious this is.
…..off-oot.
No need really to complicate this.
Its a question of whether Celtic supporters are prepared to be ruled by the union jack and the orange sash
If we are prepared to swallow the indignity of this abomination, then collectively, we are worthless. If we cannot act together to combat this outrage, we deserve to be held in contempt by the next generation of supporters.
They will ask why we never stood up against corruption.
Is this the legacy we as Celtic supporters want to leave our families?
I would hope not.
HH
SA
Ive not put a dime into Scottish Football for three seasons, after following Celtic for 40 years home and away.
Im leading by example ok, and its a pity more didnt have the balls.
HH
TIMBHOY1:
And I’m sorry to put it like that, I’m sorry to be blunt like that. You are feeding the perception that fans will swallow anything. That football is just entertainment to them, that you do not value it as something more. Your “support” of Celtic is unconditional; that’s perfectly valid, and the club will mealy-mouth it and tell you how great that is and how they value you … but what they really mean is that they value what’s in your pockets.
Football is a mercenary business. The disregard in which fans are actually held by players – and I’m not making this up, this is a fact- would astound you. The disdain in which we’re held by clubs is already perfectly obvious. I can’t convince you; this is something of the heart, not the head. I won’t even try and compete with that, but I am sad about it, that you don’t see that the soul of our club is part of what’s at stake here and that the poisoning of the sport can only make us worse in the long term.
For the sake of the club itself, that attitude is what some people will have to struggle with and get past. But you should never have your arm twisted. You are entitled to make this choice on your own, but I won’t sugar coat how I feel about it or what it means either. You deserve to be given it straight, because I know this is an act of love, of emotion over reason, and I can’t be angry about that.
But yeah, I am sad about it.
CHAIRBHOY
Legal advice about what would be the question?
The Supreme Court the highest court in the land has ruled the EBTS were illegal and HMRC will be looking for their money. The consequence of this is the illegal registration of players in hundreds of games is forfeit of said games three zip.
So what question did they ask their lawyers and what was the answer given, the arrogance of we took the best legal advice, wtf is that supposed to mean.
This cannot stand..
It is a measure of how important this issue is that CQN is busier tonight than it has been for weeks.
STARRY PLOUGH:
isn’t it something, mate? That the greatest act of cheating and sporting fraud possibly in the history of this island, is being protected behind the fig-leaf of the law?
Only a truly perverse situation could throw up that kind of result.
And of course, it’s all bollocks anyway … they sought legal advice on the validity of an inquiry which didn’t cover the main points, which violated ethics by allowing the appellate body to give evidence, that wouldn’t even examine the issue of sporting integrity and which they told us, at the time, was not “legally binding.”
These people have a brass neck and a half. They think we’re mugs.
The sleekit,sniggering character of the best wee bigoted country on full show today.
The supremacists have the endorsement of the football authorities. society and a ruling party who go along with the corruption as it aligns with the views of the vast majority of the country .
The bryson interpretation was a clear signal that they have zero morality and understand they will face no scrutiny due to the character of most Scots and a media who reflect those same views.
A nation with no shame.
STARRY PLOUGH on 24TH JULY 2017 10:23 PM
CHAIRBHOY
Legal advice about what would be the question?
The Supreme Court the highest court in the land has ruled the EBTS were illegal and HMRC will be looking for their money. The consequence of this is the illegal registration of players in hundreds of games is forfeit of said games three zip.
So what question did they ask their lawyers and what was the answer given, the arrogance of we took the best legal advice, wtf is that supposed to mean.
This cannot stand..
You said a mouthful.
JAMES FORREST on 24TH JULY 2017 10:08 PM
SIONNACH ABU:
It’s been five years since LNS brother, if they haven’t put the cork in the bottle yet they’ve got to realise they’re never going to. I guarantee we’ll not be in this impasse in five years time. The Rubicon has been crossed here; this is a red letter moment, you can see it. Fans have had it.
————————————————————————————
Mo chara, arguably until Wednesday SPL statement, no side has even entered the battlefield yet. Everything preceding has been a meer skirmish. There’s enough powder been kept dry to cause an explosion Guy Fawkes would be proud of.
The SPL’s PLC’s are counting on the death of a thousand cuts having already drained the life out of sporting integrity.
As for the masses hoping for a strong counter statement from Celtic PLC to lead the charge?
Beware the enemy from within.
I know nothing and no doubt better minds than mine championing sporting integrity have a coorrdinated plan that will allay my fears. At least, I hope so mo chara.
HH
Jimmy Cricket doesny know what fit he kicks wi’…………….
At it……….
kevjungle Neganon and a few others were right all along every penny given to Celtic over last 5 years has gone to fund the farce
no other club cares by the way..a few Dons fans and thats iT Well fans dont care hearts fns dont
If you dont want to be cheated by our enemies, stop giving them fecking money.
What is difficult about that ffs.
Thats like me paying my next door neighbour to steal all my money.
HH
The new CQN Podcsast has been uploaded and you can find it below Paul’s blog post on this article. Very interesting discussion on the Green Brigade and the relevance of continuing to sing Rebel songs.
Last week’s podcast including feedback we received from an SPFL club when we contacted them re the Supreme Court judgment.
This surprisingly wasn’t more widely discussed on here.
Anyway we took the information supplied by the SPFL club together with the allegations raised directly to the SFA and this evening we got a reply from Regan himself!
Last week I outlined the legal advice we received from a very senior lawyer used to dealing with similar situations at the Court of Session. This outlined the mechanism for us to go for a Judicial Review at very little expense and this would cause the SPFL serious difficulties if we were successful.
Timbhoy1
Once I was like you ,blind faith, but you will soon realise hat our club/ our team is not squeaky clean .
Put it this way ,would any directors sit down and have a beer with you.
OWEN on 24TH JULY 2017 10:10 PM
Good post Owen.
Is it a good thing to pass such pathetic acceptance on to the next generation of Celtic supporters?
Will they be proud of us, allowing the club we love to be used and abused by corrupt bigots.
What will our grandchildren say when we tell them, we allowed Celtic to be cheated and did nothing?
HH