I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.
There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.
The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.
I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something. I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years. It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.
But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.
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Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:
* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.
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Amazing the spin towards PL, all because a bunch of rockets F Up, the obnoxious arrowgant pompous Ultras showed what the where, no interest , no love, for the club or other fans, it’s all about them, how can you sit down at a table and have a discussion with these nuggets, they have back up from whahoos on here , you’d get more sense out of a ten year old, unii Ultras chase the carrot , and the genuine Celtic fan tells Them to FR off. But if your over 60 in here you don’t know what your talking about, big mistake, and predictable, let’s see what happens.
I see on BBC Scorland Rod Petrie was asked if he thought Rangers (IL) gained a sporting advantage through their use of EBTs.
He sidestepped the question which was completely unnecessary.
Murray and others have already testified, under oath, that it was done to secure the services of players they would have been unable to afford otherwise.
So no need for the question and a deflection from the real issue.
Did Rangers(IL) break registration and reporting rules by failing to fully disclose contracts?
Strip the titles.
Apologise to the public
Flog the perpetrators.
So the SC has confirmed what we have all known since the EBT scandal first surfaced and all we have heard from the people we look to to do the right thing is ,more or less “let’s move on and forget about it “.
Well that’s just fine and bloody dandy ,ain’t it .
Why in earth are we debating this crap .
Why are the people charged with running the game in this country looking for ways to weasel out of applying the bloody rules .
All we hear is that it’s legally complex ,pure and utter bollox .
Let’s employ the lawyers let’s take it to court ,if that’s what it takes ,let the new clubs owners ,who shout about no title stripping defend it in a court of law .
For Regan , doncaster and the rest to come out and say ,we have took advise from a lawyer and he says best to let sleeping cheats lie ,is simply not bloody good enough .
1.we know rages 1872 cheated their way to titles
2.we know the SFA,SPL covered it up
3. they have all been found out so lets do something about it .
Leaflets ,count me in ,boycotts ,count me in ,crowd funding ,count me in .
The time has now come for us to stand up and be counted ,as if we allow this corruption to now stand there will be no turning back the clock .
ROBERTTRESSELL on 24TH JULY 2017 1:37 PM
The GB were in the wrong. Flares and unsafe behaviour and a pointless banner. All wrong.
BUT the criticism by prominent Celtic bloggers has been too much. It is right to point out why certain things were wrong. However the level and tone of criticism needs to be different when dealing with ‘in house’ matters. And I think some of our favourite bloggers (the host of this site excepted) have been unable to find a different tone from the one they use to tear strips off Sevco, media apologists and the SFA.
No Celtic supporter is beyond reproach and it is healthy for us to air differences and hold each other to account. It certainly makes us different from most but there is something everyone in a domestic dispute needs to remember if you want to settle it and remain on good terms – always leave room for the other party to get out of any corner they may have backed themselves in to. Leave their dignity in tact. Give them space to think and reflect.
The GB or some associated with them have made a mistake. If people stop ripping the p£& out of them and give them room to draw back then they will have a chance to sort things out internally.
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Poor post.
Far too much common sense and and efforts at establishing common ground between parties.
Please discontinue your insightful contributions, you’re letting the knee jerk ultras of both entrenched persuasions down.
:-)
“Strip the titles.
Apologise to the public
Flog the perpetrators.”
INVINCIBLE ‘GG, I’ll happily take my turn on the whip :)
future generations of celtic fans will look back in history and think why o why did they do nothing and let them away with all the cheating if nothing is done now.
TD67 9.03.
Over 60 is that not about 90% of the people that post :-)))
Hail Hail
Ron 67 9.11.
If we are not careful history will show you that the perpetrators were the victims.
Hail Hail.
FSTB
Well said.
Good fighting talk, im with you.
We fight or we submit to hun corruption.
Easy choice for me.
HH
SETTING FREE THE BEARS
Thanks for the nod! I’ve copied a post I made just over 5 years ago following the Oldco going into Admin in 2012.
Boycott by definition: refuse (v.), stay away from, impose sanctions, embargo, shun, proscribe, prohibit, reject.
The process of getting from A to B (Arranging to Boycotting) often proves to be the most difficult part of the action. The Celtic Support (for their own reasons) will have different agendas – when and if an away boycott actually comes about;
• Those that believe it’s mandatory to back the Team whatever the circumstances.
• The unthinkable – no support away .v. whoever.
• Those financially signed-up to the ‘away’ ticket scheme.
• Those already committed to pre-booked travel arrangements (buses, flights, overseas fans with infrequent opportunity to see the Team, etc).
• Those who do not attend way games.
• No doubt – a few more that I have failed to list.
Sometimes the mere ‘threat’ of a boycott; the media coverage, the potential for financial loss to the targeted away Club etc can often have greater effect than the actual boycott.
If the 1st boycott goes ahead – it will need to make an immediate impact otherwise any future attempts would render the threat of its use – entirely futile. Success would mean the Supporters would be in possession of powerful tool that could be used again and again – if necessary.
The exercise would be futile: (a) if not properly organised, (b) if not utilised when in a position of strength and (c) if it fails to achieve its objective (and that includes alienation to our detriment).
I am neither advocating nor condoning the use of a boycott – I seldom attend away games now. Boycotts do work – but organising a successful one is much harder work than just staying away on the day in question.
H!H!
Footnote: I might add that the final game played before the capitulation of the Old CFC Board it took approx 3 months to organise. Attendances by then were circa; max = 20K – min = 14K (av probably 18K). Despite widespread canvassing, rallies, leafleting (pre-internet) and mass coverage by the MSM (who were revelling in the pain) – over 7K Celtic Supporters walked through the turnstiles that night.
The rest was history – a few days later the Rhebels had won!
I’m not convinced any boycotts would work due to the ‘must go’ fraternity…
It’s a negative tactic and they are not popular. But perhaps doing something different whilst going, to show disaffection might help?
If fans groups can organise/co-ordinate protesting actions at games that could pressurise. Noise, banners chants all focused on non-acceptance has the benefit of being carried via TV.
Merchandise might be the money factor to go after? Easier for all to refuse merchandise purchase as a financial incentive. Sponsor targeting I like both as a refusal to purchase and campaigns of communication targeting. Old tactic: 10k people open a bookies account at all those sponsors, then immediately close them down. Attend bookies and ask all sorts of stupid new gambling questions to disrupt business etc etc.
Set up a CQN meeting?
Put a committee together?
Protest at Hampden?
Boycott?
Sitting on our arses is not an option.we cannot lie down to this.
I want to fight.
HH
!!BADA BING!! on 24TH JULY 2017 2:36 PM
https://twitter.com/wetherspoon_uk/status/889469541608247296
The original tweet funny, but some of the comments underneath are hilarious!
What about occupy hampden. (plenty of space). Disrupt the smooth business of football administration. We could make an exception for pyro in the office :-)
PRAECEPTA:
Brilliant post mate, thanks for sharing that and needless to say, yours is a view I’ve always had the utmost respect for. You are correct in every assertion. It will take an immense organisational effort … and if it fails it’s a one shot deal. But that makes it simple.
For fans of Good TV, the series Rome had a great moment when Caesar prepared for the battle of Pharsalus and realised he was outnumbered; “That is the advantage we must press … we must win or die. Pompeii’s men have other options.”
DUMBHOY:
Whether I agree with you or not, it’s irrelevant really.
It’s do something or do nothing. It’s have a go, or live with shame and scandal. Clubs will take their chances pushing the fans like this either way, but it’s better to go out swinging than live on your knees.
Rangers’ use of EBTs legal, therefore other clubs could have used them too = no sporting advantage gained.
Rangers’ use of EBTs illegal, therefore other clubs could not legally have used them too = DOH!
Boycotts don’t work? Ask Ratners when he said his products were a crap a cheap imitation//… are they astill around? well its the same as scottish footbal.. PS Tony Donnely ahaving a go at the GB ? While the last nail is driven ibnto scottish footballs coffin… FFS! And thatsall PL and TD care about. idiots wit a few flares
ps Kerrydale Street and other forums appear to be silent just like celtic at the SPFL AGM today
One of the many things that annoyed me on Rep Scotland tonight was decision to pass case of Ajax thugs over to the Dutch authorities.
Wonder if the club had any input regarding this ridiculous decision.
James Forrest
Yup, it’s just what ‘something’ now. Danger of Judean Peoples Front taking over, passing resolutions in committee then sending in the suicide squad to show solidarity :-)
Boycotts are a poor way to make our point or even draw attention to the problem.
I said aeons ago, well maybe a few weeks, that we, Celtic, should threaten to withhold our players from Scotland games and withdraw from the Scottish Cup unless a full and public enquiry is conducted, and a clear out done at Hampden.
Sponsors, broadcasters and MSM could not ignore that threat.
Would our board have the cohones to voice such a drastic option?
I doubt it but we will only find out if we pressure the club.
Staggering that it seems nothing will happen – but entirely predictable.
Where is the outcry from Civic Scotland, the Media? The sports minister? The Sainted Nicola?
Predictably silent. Scotland is a cosy wee club. We’ve never been invited.
Praecepta
“Sometimes the mere ‘threat’ of a boycott; the media coverage, the potential for financial loss to the targeted away Club etc can often have greater effect than the actual boycott.”
************
That was certainly the case in 2012 during the attempt to get Sevco started in the top tier.
INVINCIBLE ‘GG:
As I said, mate, two things make every politician jump. Fear and money.
Fortunately, we’re in the position here of being able to utilise both; the minute clubs realise this will cost them money they will crack. The minute they realise fans are unified on the issue they will fold.
Sponsors should be boycotted along with away games. That’s a given, and there should be a public campaign informing them of exactly why. If the boycott looked like it had legs, and power, then the advertisers would take note automatically, and be Very Afraid.
Look, the SPFL/SFA position here is that toxic practices should be allowed to go unpunished.
Well doing that makes the game toxic, and that’s how I want it to be viewed by all its stakeholders. If they are leaving this on the table the smell of it has to be so great it makes people sick.
No-one will put money into a toxic association.
The fear of that, and an exercise of fan power, will get it done.
it won’t be one thing; the boycott on its own will open people’s eyes, the combination of two … game set and match.
Bhoys – relax
Accept that as far as the board are concerned we are cash cows.
I really hoped that we would be supported by the Club and that the great efforts of the Res team and valiant BRTH and James F would be vindicated. It is done.
We now have to move in with Celtic or without them.
Very sad day.
Italiabhoy
It’s ok. Sir Minty explained it all to her at the dinner to which he was recently invited at Bute House.
its over….. What did Celtic say today? or any day at a meeting?
I see BBC Scotland are prominently featuring a puff piece on Pedro’s claims of how Alves will be a “key player for Rangers.”
We have a CL game in 2 days and BBC are the mouthpiece for Traynor’s blue sky thinking to keep the tills ringing in Govan.
A game which could lead to millions coming into Scottish football.
A game which could ensure 100k football fans visit Glasgow bringing millions of tourist euros, pounds, dollars to the city.
A game which could ensure Scotland remains in the vision of football fans around the world.
However, the Blue Broadcasting Corporation prefer to concentrate their attention on a third rate team struggling to stay afloat and as continually emphasized by Phil, a team without credit or a banking facility.
the game on WEednesday doeasnt matter..or we would be going into it with more than one CH and one not quite fit striker.
I cant see our club letting this go.
I feel today we have had a touch of the ‘phoney’ war.Press waiting to be told and it shows-
When is a review not a review-no appetite-move on-etc….ironically no word of the paying customer and the fairness of game they watched during the years of cheating from Campbell’s discount option scheme to sir div of cheats tax cheat with ebt’s
meeja forget that we do not trust their word-.http://itsanewclub.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/not-new-club-then-by-retroscot-140.html?m=1
I feel the club should pursue res12 fully with full and transparent implementation of ffp.To many landmines(legally) in the future for the club if they dont from shareholders
EmbraMike good post to James Forrest bout the timeline and time taken to get justice.
HH
We stand up and it will be over, pretty damn sharpish.
The one thing the cheats cant do without is MONEY.
A lot of these cheating clubs depend on the green pound.
We should not be helping these cheats to fk Celtic.
Give them nothing.
HH
HH
Of course boycotts work, we have one of the organisers on here who helped take down the board in the 90s.
Read his post a few mins ago
PRAECEPTA on 24TH JULY 2017 9:17 PM
AULDHEID on 24TH JULY 2017 9:00 PM
SIONNACH ABU on24TH JULY 2017 7:48 PM
If Anne Budge pays attention to just one superb letter from a Jambo posted on SFM and Retweet ed frequently then she will know the issues at stake.
Hiding behind numbers does not address those issues.
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I agree she should pay attention but from the “tone” of the statement read she was firmly putting the ball in the fans court ( not just Hearts).
Now we both know she’s covering her back side.
I’m disappointed there isnt something already in place from fans groups to counter the respective PLC positioning. Surely retaining the services of a competent PR agency was a no brainer. No doubt I’m missing something, I usually am.
It’s money v money, that’s what it boils down to.Sporting integrity is a contingent but how much levy does she has in all this depends on public opinion.
What Budge seemed to indicate was it’s all over but not quite. It depends if the fans groups swallow the bitter pill and to what extent public opinion forces their hand either way. Question is, is there the wherewithal to see this through from the respective fans groups in the first place and what weight will that carry determining public opinion?
Without a decent PR agency behind this my fear is it will fizzle out.
The death of a thousand cuts.
Stripping titles from a club who won them by cheating is not a punishment, it is merely a consequence, nothing more, that the entity that cheated and won has now been liquidated is neither here nor there.
The team playing in blue at Ibrox now are a new club.
What is being spoken about here is a compromise.
Generally I like compromises, but this one is a distortion of the facts.
Rangers cheated and won=consequence, titles null and void, therefore stripped.
Sevco 5088 morphed into Sevco Scotland and are a new football club.
These are just facts.
Anything else is a fob, a fudge, a compromise.
Always remember,they hate us for what we are .TAL
Gutted.read back,but nothing gives me any confidence in justice being done.If only those Huns had let off some flares,or put up some kind of banner,we,our club,could have been all over them.They would have felt our full force alright.
Anybody know what other club associations the CSA are meeting tomorrow?
HH
The only success i can see is through the legal route.
I actually think that would suit the club’s as the court’s will be making the decision the club’s are scared to make.
If we have learned anything, it is that the authorities will not act in any significant way against a club playing out of ibrox.