I don’t get the flares thing. It’s not a part of my going-to-see-Celtic tradition. But if it was my thing, I’d have the courage of my convictions, I wouldn’t hide the fact.
There are consequences of bringing flares to football games, always has been. By not having the courage to openly ignite them, those consequences are not personalised to the individuals who regard this as an integral part of what they do at a football game, they are visited upon everyone in the vicinity, as well as the club.
The problem with flares at Celtic games is those who bring them hide the fact – as they clearly know there are consequences, and presumably aren’t too interested in taking responsibility for them. ‘Keen on flares, not keen enough to stand up for them’, is why the issue persists.
I get the attraction to bright, shiny, things, but this isn’t a campaign to bring the vote to disenfranchised people against a force who will execute the offender on sight. It’s about bringing a flare to a football game. If it’s so important, do it openly. If you think Health and Safety are simply wrong, find the evidence and use it in court. Have the courage to change something. I know lots of Celtic fans who have had the courage to put their name to something they believed in, in recent years. It’s seldom easy, but it has been done.
But in the years of this debate no one has ever pointed to evidence that igniting flares in a football ground is a clever thing to do. It’s just a ‘look at me’ exercise, ‘But don’t look at my face’, of course.
********************************************************
Episode 5 of ‘A Celtic State of Mind’ finds Paul John Dykes and Kevin Graham discussing a variety of topical subjects concerning Celtic Football Club, including:
* What now for the Green Brigade?
* Dedryck Boyata – Are reinforcements on route?
* Virgil van Dijk – The windfall cometh;
* Emilio Izaguirre – Moving on.
2,751 Comments- Pages:
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Just a wee poll.
how many of those advocating an away game boycott, actually attend Celtic away games currently on a regular basis?
Not a criticism, just an observation on the realism of the campaign.
ULDHEID on 24TH JULY 2017 7:41 PM
Brogan Rogan
If the information provided to Celtic and shareholders to Res12 at last update along with what was sent to Eric Reilly in 2014 stands up, then Celtic cannot let this go without taking a case to UEFA.
UEFA have 11 Values and at least three have been violated by SFA and SPFL.
UEFA might not pay attention, but at the risk of violating there own values.
When folk say they will act in their best interests they have to decide what is in their best interests and my analysis is that it is in the short term interests of the Board to act and the long term interests of Scottish football for the Board to act.
However I would be open to persuasion if I it were explained why it’s not in Celtic’s interests but would not accept from the outset that one reason would be fear.
It’s a straightforward choice. Take evidence into account (all of it) and do the right thing or let the mob rule.
——————————————————–
Agree, It has to be taken to UEFA.
Although I think from what Budge had to say today she threw the gauntlet down to fans groups to make themselves heard.
A coordinated campaign would be most effective. Is their an appetite for it?
A good PR agency would be an advantage if there’s money around imo
Auldheid, BRT&H, Canamalar
I had been informed that our PLC were to put this in the hands of a team of solicitors, who were to take the Res12 info/investigations supported by Supreme Court judgement and recent information for Craig Whyte trial to the SPFL today.
Did this happen and/or is there any substance to this?
MWD
Two things to consider as this Review plays out over the next few days and coming weeks.
Firstly, Celtic boycotting an away game. We feature in two away TV games against well-known protagonists in this fiasco;
Kilmarnock: 12:30 on 19th August;
Hamilton: 19:45 on 8th September;
Both capable of being beat without our Away Support presence and both where it would be highly noticeable to a wide TV audience and – plenty of time to organise.
Secondly (and this is conjecture) – let’s say PL has made his SPFL ‘Review’ position clear before standing for the SFA Board? Says: either instigate one that is thorough, transparent and covers all aspects of the case or – we (now ensconced at the SFA) will publish (and be damned) all documentary evidence (names/dates etc) relating to the past 10 years of governance in Scotland.
After all – PL (along with Petrie) will have the passkey to the SFA vaults!
Shouldn’t the CSA being contacting like minded supporters associations. Aberdeen and Hibs for starters. If there is to be yet another EBT whitewash any action / boycotts need to be agreed and co-ordinated from a multilateral perspective. We need to combat any notion that this is purely Celtic causing the fuss. undoubtedly the very stance that the Scots MSM will adopt.
SETTING FREE THE BEARS FOR RES. 12 & OSCAR KNOX on 24TH JULY 2017 7:48 PM
Just a wee poll.
how many of those advocating an away game boycott, actually attend Celtic away games currently on a regular basis?
——-
I do, i despise giving some Clubs the money, Kilmarnock, Hearts and the Huns. I think our team are good enough to play with no support at away grounds at the present moment, but really that is irrelevant, it’s a matter of principle. I would rather not do it but the current situation is untenable.
Bhoys – I have the utmost respect and admiration for our legal, financial and moral spokespeople
But I now believe that the cynics whom I have tried to sideline for years are correct. Celtic have opted out. Money talks and they have carried out a risk assessment based on the average thickness of the collective.
Rangers will feel no pain and we will suffer. Only way is out, out of Scotland. I never thought I would make such a post but unless our board are so far undercover the sun doesn’t reach. The suits are taking us with them into subservience.
AULDHEID:
I absolutely 100% disagree with you on the issue of “accepting it” if Celtic told us that it was in our club’s interests to ignore this stuff.
If Celtic told us that I would be appalled, and disgusted.
That would be our club telling our fans that out of its own selfish interests that it would be perfectly willing to forfeit the integrity of the sport as a whole.
We would be no better than Rangers / Sevco.
Not in my name.
So the fix is in.
Celtic back in hiding and throwing out squirrels and attacking their own supporters.
Meanwhile the corrupt continue.
Game over.
OGLACH on 24TH JULY 2017 7:51 PM
Shouldn’t the CSA being contacting like minded supporters associations. Aberdeen and Hibs for starters.
——
As per Joe O’Rourke letter this morning, i think they are meeting tomorrow.
The ONLY way forward is to boycott all Celtic games. The board won’t listen otherwise.
Probably won’t happen but that just means it’s the end.
!!BADA BING!! on24TH JULY 2017 7:35 PM
So the trade off is , they are a new club, but keep the tainted titles? Can ram that one for starters.
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If the reason for not acting is that the cheating was carried out by the old club, then it follows TRFC are a new club in line with the Traverso letter and UEFA Rules and that their titles count stands at zero.
It’s a pound if flesh that few could argue with.
What we get out of it is official ruling RFC won titles by an illegal means which is officially recognised by the game and media as cheating.
That record of tainted titles lies there for all to see.
TRFC cannot be marketed as RFC nor can SPFL (and UEFA Web sites) count the 54 titles as part of TRFC’s record total.
That continuity myth is probably the biggest mistake made. In fact had it not happened the SC result would only have confirmed what we long knew and have moved on from.
If Green insisted on that continuity for commercial purposes and The SPL conceded, their adviser/CEO Doncaster should be removed from his post.
Regan has questions to answer to Celtic alone on UEFA licence and his and SFA’S stance since March 2011, including treatment of Res12 enquiries from first Celtic then Res12 lawyers.
Heads must also roll.
OGLACH:
Yes, they should. And the new fans organisation, and the guys at TSFM should be involved as well.
Far better, by the way, if it comes from the Trust and reaches out to other supporter trusts. A lot clubs have various fan organisations; Celtic has a good few :) The shareholders organisations generally have the respect and the heft to influence the rest.
JINKYREDSTAR on 24TH JULY 2017 7:54 PM
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Correct me if I’m wrong but the Celtic PLC have a legal responsibility to act in the best interests of the shareholders?
They can use that as a get out for opting out.
AULDHEID on 24TH JULY 2017 7:56 PM:
An acknowledgement that we’re not “stripping titles” but “stripping history” ?
it’s a compromise that a lot of people could live with.
I still think those titles need to go. There’s a bigger principle at stake here than what gives us some momentary satisfaction. History will judge us on whether justice was done here or not, and the only way that works is if the titles are stricken from the record.
Neganon2
Read BRTH and my posts and if you think the CSA called for a boycott with Celtic not knowing and intervening you are missing the stuff between the lines, although to be fair there is plenty.
It’s no longer stripping titles. It’s the future of Scottish football as a sport at stake.
The reason for not acting is that it is THE RANGERS , The PEOPLE so just shut up and let us carry on you useless bastards… a translation from SPFL for the idiots out there who listened to PL for 5 years
Any lurking Huns
5-1
1-5
39 points
Invincible Treble
Progres
David Gray
GIRUY
Has PL ever said anything about the cheatingof RFC, invitation to new club transformation in to old club at an SFA meeting
? NO!!!!
thetimreaper on 24th July 2017 7:55 pm
OGLACH on 24TH JULY 2017 7:51 PM
Shouldn’t the CSA being contacting like minded supporters associations. Aberdeen and Hibs for starters.
——
As per Joe O’Rourke letter this morning, i think they are meeting tomorrow.
====
Glad to hear it, hopefully they can reach an agreement and in doing so bring in more dissenting supporters groups. The only ones who can ensure justice and proper governance is seen are the supporters of Scotland’s football clubs.
I’m sympathetic to the view that the club had to wait until the Supreme Court thing ran its course.
One thing no-one will ever be able to accuse Celtic of is acting precipitously, or trying to exhaust every possible avenue short of aggressive, remedial action.
The media will still try to level the charge, but it will have no teeth. And in the legal arena whatever we do would be on solid foundations because of it.
SFTB- A good question all things considered, i have had a ST for 32 years,unbroken history :), during the cheating huns tainted 9, i never missed an away game, another issue to be highlighted BTW, I go to 2 or 3 away games now.I would boycott away grounds but would leave it to the CSA to lead on it, Kilmarnock would be a great start.
Philbhoy
She is good thanks, her meds seem to be doing what they are supposed to, thankfully, it’s only taken a couple + years.
HH
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James
I reckon just the threat of a boycott will be enough.
…………………………………………
SFTB
With respect the fact people go to the games or not is immeterial imo, and we are talking about one game here, the clubs would act if they didn’t get money they had banked on for sure.
People the world over are Celtic supporters, a straw poll of them would imo have 99.99% of them wanting a level playing field and if an away boycott is the only way to force it, so be it.
Also it doesn’t have to be a total boycott, Linfield wasn’t, a small % of our support could attend like LInfield, this would cost the clubs money for policing, money they would rather not lay out I’m sure.
I have said on here many times that as I don’t attend games due to location maybes I am not the best person to advocate for a boycott, but all I want is for a clean game and if that’s what it will take, that’s what it will have to be.
I honestly can’t think of any other way to force the clubs to act, can you ?
TET
Good news!
THE EXILED TIM:
I think you’re right. I think if it looked like it was catching fire and going somewhere their bottles would crash.
no offence to James Forrest/Auldheid etc better Celtic men than me but live in the real world see what has happened. Everyday after they died…check the newspapers there was less chance of reporming Scottish football. there waws no rerason to wait. all the evidence was there.. they shouild never have been allowed to form a new club with no players nno stadium no history.. i know Spartans were literally scared stiff to complain. afteer they played thir first game that was it.
S Abu
Fair point. So Tommy Burns was up against a fair oponent?
If you stuck £20 quid in a Puggy for 15 years only to discover that it never paid out but the Pub Ownef had a village on the Algarve – you ok with that?
James.
If the body is officially dead why keep kickiing? What the SPFL would be saying is we officially recognise RFC cheated but as they are no longer under SPFL jurisdiction a just sanction cannot be applied.
However as TRFC are under SPFL jurisdiction the technicality preventing a sanction prevents SPFL recognising TRFC as the same club with the same identity as RFC. Thus their football history begins in August 2012.
This is in total keeping with UEFA who count TRFC’S membership of SFA as beginning 2012.
I’d like them to keep those titles if officially declared won by unfair means and title count starts at zero.
It would be like adding a sack of rotten potatoes to their history. After a couple of years their history pre 2012 would not be talked about.
ps its parkhead you should be boycotting they wont care about no away support
TTR
Thank you- that’s one person declared.
I cannot agree that my question is irrelevant. Most of us (including, I am asserting, the majority of those advocating an away boycott) do not attend away matches with any regularity. Therefore, in boycotting away games, unlike you, we are sacrificing nothing.
In order to arrange an impactful boycott (you will never get 100% of away fans to stop going), it will take more than an internet based campaign. The CSA would have to be central in co-ordinating and backing this, otherwise it will be a damp squib.
It will be difficult and will need preparations and communicaton and time. The Thistle and Kilmarnock games may be too early to build up momentum and promises to refuse allocations. Then you face the double issue of die-hards dissenting and maintaining their attendance records and of other fans desperate to see Celtic away, who might pick up on the unsold or returned tickets.
Let me be clear- I am not saying that this is not a worthwhile action or that a partial but effective reduction in Celtic fans attending cannot be achieved, merely that it is a lot harder than many imagine.
It would be far easier to boycott home games, but then we would be aiming at the one Board that has made a statement of sorts on the ebt rulings.
PS hope everyone is happy withtranfer window.. going into games with one betre half and possibly no centre forward..so much for investing.. When Armstriong and Dembele go it will be to offset the loss of CL money
MARADOMINIC:
In the real world the following things are true.
1) Football makes it own laws. All the “legal advice” in the world cuts no slack at the CAS. They operate on their own principles, and as Brogan Rogan pointed out, they will make judgments and enforce decisions based simply on whether the integrity of the sport itself was threatened.
2) Scottish football fans are the key source of income for nearly every club in the land. And that means they can only ignore supporters as long as supporters are content to be ignored.
3) This isn’t about power, it’s about votes. Even if Celtic and Sevco were standing toe to toe and with one another on this, 50% plus 1 is all we need to win, and it doesn’t even matter if our own club ends up in the 49%. Change happens regardless.
4) If Rangers had been as powerful as a lot of people maintain then they’d never have died, would never have been liquidated, a NewCo would never have been born, it would have kept all Rangers players, it would never have had to start in the bottom tier of the game because clubs would have let them straight into the SPL. Sporting integrity did win that argument. And fans made it happen.
5) The evidence WAS there. That evidence has now been ratified by the highest legal court in the land, and that’s the point where the game changed. The governing bodies are still trying to brass-neck it. We expected nothing less my friend.
Auldheid et al- Cowiebhoy called it spot on a few years back, when Sevco.played their 1st game, a note in the Celtic programme at that time should have said’ welcome to The Rankers to the Scottish League…..blah blah blah, job done.Gough, Myth, Traynor, Whittaker, Naismith etc, said the exact same thing, yet we said nothing.
Marodomic.
The real world is what has been exposed from the past and the past began a nano second ago.
It should have been tackled in 2013 once evidence of skullduggery emerged but that was the. This is now a chance to create a new reality where honesty is a given. Worth fighting for surely?
JINKYREDSTAR on 24TH JULY 2017 8:10 PM
I’m on your side mo chara.
Just saying, as far as Celtic PLC”s (and the othe SPL clubs) responsibilities go, sporting integrity isnt a biggie.
More’s the pity.
AULDHEID:
The issue is not about the continuation of history. That’s a side issue. We know the history stops cold when the shriveled rotted heart of Rangers stopped beating, whatever anyone tells us. And whilst it would be grand to get that finally acknowledged it’s not enough, is it?
Because the issue here is about the fraud against football. And that fraud necessitates the stripping of titles. It doesn’t matter whether it’s done posthumously; the name Rangers must NOT appear in the history books beside those years or cheating has been accepted.
This isn’t an all-or-nothing position, it’s the logical position if what we’re after here is protecting the game and its reputation and its honour.
The Board have also bought the ‘civil unrest’ bollox from Regan a few years back, so if Hawthorne and Co are looking in, forget that red herring.
The Counsellor. Expected more from Ridley Scott. Piss poor.