On Saturday morning I opined that Hearts were a busted flush. They’d shipped 10 goals in their previous four games, failing to win any (against Hamilton, St Johnstone, Inverness and Kilmarnock). They were certainly not a team I expected to see sitting second to us this morning.
All of a sudden there’s talk of the manager leaving and players look like they are fighting to impress.
You know how this is going to turn out? Hearts, who are chasing second in the league, are after Newcastle’s assistant. Newcastle’s owner isn’t likely to be hard to deal with. If Ian Cathro gets the job, you can expect to see Newcastle’s player surplus heading north in January. And unlike the five who left Newcastle for Glasgow two years ago, Cathro will know and select each one.
Which is good, as it might give us some competition in the second half of the season. As for those gambling the family aluminium that qualification for the Europa League next season will bring in a necessary £7m?
They may eventually conclude that having one of Europe’s richest men inside the tent is a whole lot better than making an enemy of him. Just a thought.
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Another little snippet from the UEFA FFP rules:
Annex XI, Paragraph 1 c):
c) Projected break-even result
If the projected break-even result for the reporting period T+1 foresees a
surplus, it is likely to be viewed more favourably than if the break-even result
for the reporting period T+1 foresees a deficit. As part of its considerations,
the UEFA Club Financial Control Body may also request a licensee’s longer
term business plan (for reporting periods covering T+2 and T+3) in order to
better understand the strategy of the club.
What was it you were saying about deficit funding for a few years to come Mr King?
Palermo .
Bottom of Serie A . Knocked out of the Cup by Spezia last night . 15 Managers since September 2012. . Play in pink ,
I am going to travelling to Motherwell without a ticket for the game on Sat. Any spares would be gratefully accepted. Can anyone know where Celtic fans will be having a drink prior to the game? I have not been to Motherwell for ages.
Thank
Hail hail
VFR800 is now a Monster 821 on 1st December 2016 12:18 pm
Auldheid on 1st December 2016 12:12 pm
I know it’s a wee bit of semantics; however, it is the member club who apply for and are granted the licence, not the company (AFAIK).
Therefore the lack of continuity of membership being highlighted is a clear admission (IMHO) that it is a new club. We should use this, rinse and repeat ad nauseum until it is completely out there for all to see.
Apparently STV Grant wisnae happy about it on Twitter last night!
==================================
I agree. It says that no matter how silent the SFA are (and they have not said anything officially) UEFA do not treat the transfer of the SFA Membership RFC had to TRFC/RIFC as meaning continuity of RFC. Its the same club killer point.
So too is to emphasise the use of the word “new” to get away from the semantics on “club/company”.
Here is Article12 of UEFA FFP 2012 that applied when RFC went bust. (its the same as 2010 and I doubt 2015 version is any different). The Caps are mine for emphasis. Note how UEFA set out the definition in a hierarchy with football CLUB at the top. The parts a) and b) are necessary because different football CLUBS have different constructs and what UEFA are doing here is stopping the idea that a company under b) can go bust and the club can use that as a vehicle to shed debt and hitch itself to another company to be treated as the same club as if it had never gone bust and carry on as before.
Article 12 – Definition of licence applicant
1 A licence applicant may only be ===> a football CLUB <===, i.e. a legal entity fully responsible for a football team participating in national and international competitions which either:
a) is a registered member of a UEFA member association (The SFA) and/or its affiliated league (hereinafter: registered member); or
b) has a CONTRACTUAL relationship with a registered member (hereinafter: football
company).
2 The membership and the contractual relationship (if any) must have lasted – at
the start of the licence season – for at least three consecutive years.
Any alteration to club’s legal form or company structure (including, for example,
changing its headquarters, name club colours, or transferring stakeholdings
between different clubs) during this period in order to facilitate its qualification on
sporting merit and/or its receipt of a licence to the DETRIMENT OF THE INTEGRITY of a competition is deemed as an interruption of membership or contractual
relationship (if any) within the meaning of this provision.
I've highlighted DETRIMENT OF THE INTEGRITY as the reason why Art 12 exists and you have to wonder why Scottish football does not have an equivalent. It would have stopped the 5 Way getting off the ground on the terms it did, terms that still poison the game.
Davidopoulos on 1st December 2016 12:51 pm
Nice one. :)
CABERFEIGH
Hamiltontim is your man on here for tickets.
medtim on 1st December 2016 12:50 pm
ps the biblical rain you experienced a few days ago has now appeared in my part of the med and is much needed
I sent it your way. We had it Thursday to Sunday.
Charles Green once said ‘publicly’ that the 5 way agreement was illegal (post the transfer of licence). It is probably, by accident rather than design, the only honest thing he ever uttered in his role as a Rangers office holder.
I too think it was illegal. I think the late man of principle Turnbull Hutton would also think it illegal, but he was but just one man apart, and all alone, but braver than brave, of a corrupt nations establishment wrath and flame.
Auldheid,
Thanks for sending it along.
First rain for months and reservoir levels were concerning.Enough yesterday and today to keep us going for a while.It was quite something.
Hope you are well amigo
HH
And when Charles Green called out the 5 way agreement as being illegal, the SFA and all the tummy ticklers went belly up and slavered and drooled and that day passed into its tomorrow, where we find ourselves today.
Sandy Bryson, and the hat, and rabbit, and a wee comforting knuckle squeeze, coming to you – in a media near to your heart – soon.
Awe_Naw_No_Annoni_Oan_Anaw_Noo on 1st December 2016 12:08 pm
Auldheid,
my point being that the PLC chucked Res. 12 into the long grass until it became convenient – opportune for them to address it.
You have to be kidding that you think they showed such foresight. BRTH and I will have a chuckle at that one.
======================
For the record using Res 12 to inhibit Sevco getting an SFA favour for a possible license for next season and then doing nothing about the Murray years is not on. In fact if that is their “beads to the Indians” tact then it is as good as an admission of permanent Old Firm guilt – and that – and I chose my words carefully here – up to their knees in fenian blood.
==================
As Bankier said ” This is an important matter of governance relating to the football authorities and the Club will continue to work with its shareholders in this regard.”
Thus there should be tangible signs emerging of how that important issue of governance is being tackled by Celtic.
Your OF fixation is blurring your vision to the wider world in which football now operates that has changed quite a bit in the last 5 years.
The fact that RES12 exists and is still alive is part of that change. Its something Celtic (and the SFA/media) have never had to deal with before.
An absolute belter from Monkey Media Can Monkeys be delusional?
Howsitgoing
First Team
Howsitgoing
Reserve Team
93
217 posts
Gender:Male
Location:Dundee
Posted Tuesday at 12:14 PM
I like Warburton and feel that he will come good, younger players are going to start coming through and that’ll allow the odd £4million player to arrive to compliment them. This will give us a stronger foundation
But I do wonder if Lampard could do a Souness type revival which will require king spending around £60m on players. .
AULDHEID
Thank you for your further clarification re the granting by UEFA of a licence to participate in European competitions. Hopefully now our Board is now pursuing the issues raised in Res12 and UEFA will ensure that there is compliance even if SFA seek to accommodate RIFC. HH
AULDHEID:
To the best of your knowledge – Are Celtic PLC – unequivocally and categorically – pursuing the Res 12 issues with UEFA and/or the SFA as of today?
Have they ever done it post Res 12 being raised at the AGM?
TURKEYBHOY
:))) 60 million to add to the 30 million he has already pulled up:)))
Lemmings r us FC
YOU ARE THE REF.
(1) What decision should the referee make if a goalkeeper advances beyond the penalty area and gathers the ball with his hands?
(2) What decision should a referee make if an outfield player, within the field of play, gathers the ball with his hands?
Rangers have no plans and no means to break even while they maintain an ambition to stop Celtic getting to 10 in a row and beyond.
They used Ashley as a football equivalent of Wonga and then complain about the onerous terms when they had no other source of income.
If King et al had balls they would have intervened in their own switcheroo sooner.
He’ll slap it into them.
To my mind the most important matter of governance relating to the football authorities and clubs and supporters in Scotland was the day the 5 way agreement was tabled and negotiated. All pretence of legitimate governance was latterly flushed down the toilet the day it was signed off, endorsed, and executed – along with all football sporting integrity in Scotland.
Frank Lampard to Govan Wanderers ? Let’s hope they stick with Frank Spencer – he’s doing frightfully well thanks very much.
The more I think about the Sevco Res 11, the less sure I am that the goal was a debt for equity swap relating to loans from Directors. Certainly not all of the loans anyway. GASL has been rumoured to have sourced the finance for his loans from other people (some rumours say from dubious characters in Hong Kong) – if that is true there isn’t a chance in hell that his loans would be converted to equity (the equity is worthless). And if GASL wasn’t willing to make that sacrifice, why would other directors?
I am convinced it was just about getting their hands on some of the Club 1872 money to plug working capital shortfalls. Any other fan/fan group dumb enough to stump up cash would of course be welcome to do so as well.
Now, if what I am beginning to think is correct, and it wasn’t about debt for equity, then it wasn’t really about covering break-even deficits, and therefore it wasn’t about satisfying FFP rules – they know they don’t stand a chance of meeting the requirements. They are 100% relying on the SFA to fudge it for them and hoping to reach a settlement agreement with UEFA. We are hearing the MSM talk about FFP for two reasons: 1) to motivate shareholders in advance of a second vote on Res 11 at an EGM; and 2) to put pressure on the SFA to lend a helping hand at the appropriate time.
Of course I could be completely wrong…
AULDHEID:
As Bankier said ” This is an important matter of governance relating to the football authorities and the Club will continue to work with its shareholders in this regard.”
Did Bankier say that in an official PLC capacity or is it just hearsay?
Auldheid,
You have to be kidding that you think they showed such foresight. BRTH and I will have a chuckle at that one.
Foresight ??? are you kidding ? ….. birds of a feather, thick as thieves etc.
You two can have a right good belly laugh on me as far as I am concerned. Remember the spectre of Kill Ultras accusation while you both do so.
Your OF fixation is blurring your vision to the wider world in which football now operates that has changed quite a bit in the last 5 years.
The fact that RES12 exists and is still alive is part of that change. Its something Celtic (and the SFA/media) have never had to deal with before.
The old firm pricing policy has not changed ?
The SFA gaming board has less Celtic influence than before
The doll blower uppers have been arrested and charged . yet the toilet wreckers have not
Shall I quote you John Reid quotes from a few years back ?
So quotes from Celtic Chairmen under this PLC are UTTERLY meaningless. SOUNDBITE CULTURE CRAP. I am surprised that a man for a man with your obvious intellect and experience that it holds sway.
I look forward to seeing those tangible signs emerging. So far there has been nothing tangible as far as I and many others are concerned.
He who laughs last laughs the longest.
Will it be the cartel or the customers ?
HH
THOMTHETHIM FOR OSCAR OK on 1ST DECEMBER 2016 1:25 PM
YOU ARE THE REF.
(1) What decision should the referee make if a goalkeeper advances beyond the penalty area and gathers the ball with his hands?
(2) What decision should a referee make if an outfield player, within the field of play, gathers the ball with his hands?
In both cases a direct free kick is awarded to the opposition, and the referee may award a yellow card if he deems it appropriate (normally). He may also award a red card if the action prevented a goal scoring opportunity, subject to the guidelines for that sanction.
KITBALA
He said that at the AGM
SOT
if you have time for one meal in London
may I suggest my friend Isaacs The Clove Club
kitalba on 1st December 2016 1:10 pm (and others interested in what went on around the 5 Way)
And when Charles Green called out the 5 way agreement as being illegal, the SFA and all the tummy ticklers went belly up and slavered and drooled and that day passed into its tomorrow, where we find ourselves today.
Sandy Bryson, and the hat, and rabbit, and a wee comforting knuckle squeeze, coming to you – in a media near to your heart – soon.
====================================
Remember that a lot of effort went into creating a 5 way agreement that saw TRFC/RIFC carry on in the top tier, then the one below and then the bottom.
By then anyone taking on TRFC/RIFC was not getting as good a deal as was first intended by SFA. (The SPL would have gone for something on a top tier continuation line with some sanctions had it not been for fan power).
That SFL start unfortunately put Green in the driving seat as the only driver wanting to take on the vehicle starting at the bottom. To make the sale more palatable it still had to be “RANGRS” he was buying so the idea of transfer of SFA Membership became part of the deal.
As soon as the SFL accepted TRFC/RIFC into their league TRFC/RIFC became Registered Members of the SFA. They then had a period, I think it was 14 days to apply for an Associate SFA Membership and after FIVE years as an Associate Member of the SFA could apply for Full SFA Membership.
However no way could the idea of TRFC/RIFC being the same club as RFC be sold on that basis. Such a route, which was the one open to new clubs joining the SFL, would have taken away a major reason for Green to buy.
So he demanded and got a Transfer of SFA Membership as that gave the impression of continuity (although timing meant a bridging “Conditional Membership of 3 days) and as todays comments show UEFA do not recognise that SFA RFC Membership transfer as providing continuity.
The SFA/SFL/SPL at the time would not want to lose 50k customers from the industry so Green, as the only show in town, actually had the upper hand when demanding the transfer of SFA Membership. The majority of clubs in the SFL would be all for it as TRFC/RIFC made their “journey” back up the SFL Divisions.
It was all done for commercial reasons but sporting integrity got a boot in the haw maws and the game is still feeling the pain of such a blow.
2012 Glossary: SFA – Scottish Football Association. SPL – Scottish Premier League. SFL- Scottish Football League.
Types of SFA Membership in 2012.
Registered Membership
Associate Membership
Full Membership
(The Conditional Membership was only brought into being to allow TRFC/RIFC to play Brechin because transfer of Full SFA membership had not happened by the point that game was played.)
Does anyone have any info on who provided the £2.9m emergency loan to Sevco in October?
Auldheid on 1st December 2016 1:44 pm
he also got a deal with the LNS commission´s outcome ..clearly
HH
We’re having a book event tonight at Jock Stein lounge, admission is free but you need to get on guest list. If you want to come along drop me an email to david@cqnpublishing.co.uk
There’s a full schedule which has been put together by Paul Dykes.
Andy Lynch will be talking about his book Hoops Stars and Stripes and will be joined by many former colleagues and some other exCelts.
Evan Williams and Paul Wilson will be there, so will Joe Miller. Delighted that Lisbon Lion John Clark is coming and there is probably going to be an appearance from the Betfred Cup which we won on Sunday.
There’s a live band and they’ll be singing Grace – looking forward to that.
Hope to see some of you tonight at Jock Stein Lounge from 7.30pm
THAI TIM JIM:
The AGM in which year?
TURKEYBHOY on 1ST DECEMBER 2016 1:14 PM
If I had one, I’d bet my mortgage thats a Tim at the wind-up….
Got to be.
“Now all they have to do is defuse the Resolution bombshell dropped last week; find somewhere in the region of £14.5M from the current shareholders; and finish in the top 3 of the SPFL Premiership. At the end of the season, if this all falls into line it will be the greatest escape since Steve McQueen disappeared over the horizon on his Triumph TT Special 650!”
I’m assuming given the tasteful reference to a classic bike, that this was penned by VFR800.
However, may I politely point out that, far from disappearing over the horizon, poor old Cooler King Hilts missed the horizon and ended up in the barbed wire of the border, from where he was promptly dispatched back to a solitary cell.
Just sayin’
TBB. And the bold Steve had a really good reason for escaping since he was previously made to spend jail time with Angus Lennie. At least when he was put back in the cooler Hilts was on his own.
It’s wonderful that guys on here ,are giving Regan,Doncaster,King,Traynor,Jackson et al,plenty of sleepless nights ….;}
Awe Naw look at your post @2:39 yesterday “my conclusion are as sound as a pound” – AweNaw knew you’d said it. H H Hebcelt
AULDHEID:
I appreciate your response but let me make myself clear, I remember what went on, and what I don’t remember I can google, but my sole starting point, and only point, is that the 5 way agreement was illegal. Nothing more, nothing less, and Scotland accepted it. All bar one.
The transfer of licence was a mockery of rules and decency, no matter what whichever way you or anybody else wishes to view it.
We exist in a polluted and toxic and corrupt national organisation/authority and we wallow in it because we are okay. Would we be more accommodating and accepting of the fraud if today we were 4th in the league?
Obviously that is a subjective question but valid none the less not ignoring the inconvenient truth that we – we being Celtic and all other clubs bar one – accepted the corrupt commercial compromise.
TBB unfortuneately Steve did not disappear “over the horizon” he was caught, just like Sevco will be. H H Hebcelt